The Rafi-Kishore saga
The following article appeared in The Statesman,Calcutta, on Aug.7 th 2005. It will give more food for thought to the ongoing debate about the Rafi personality and magic – Mohan Flora .
Mohd. Rafi was the greatest playback singer, asserts Ranjan Das Gupta as he pays tribute on the melody kings 25th death anniversary. Rafi was a classically trained singer while Kishore was naturally endowed with excellent resonance. The latter was a versatile genius, singer, music director, actor, writer and director all rolled into one. Both were proficient singers but had separate individual styles.
In the 1950s Rafi literally ruled the roost. He was the most favoured singer for veteran composers like Naushad, S.D. Burman, Shanker Jaikishan, Madan Mohan while Kishore was preferred by S.D. Burman and Salil Choudhury who was playback mainly for Dev Anand and his own films. Rafi on the other hand could balance his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
It is an astonishing fact that O.P. Nayar used Rafi to sing for Kishore Kumar the unforgettable tune Man Mora Bawra in Ragini in 1957. Shanker Jaikishan also had Rafi to sing Ajab Hai Dastan in Shararat in 1958. Says record museum owner Vinod Santhalia, It is simply amazing. Imagine Mohd. Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films Kishore himself acted.
Shanker Jaikishan commented, No doubt Kishore Kumar is a good singer. He sang beautifully for me in Rangoli. But Ajab Hai Dastan was simply not Kishores cup of tea. The mukhdas and antaras required a singer of Rafis range and classical background.
Although Kishore Kumar felt bad about this, he could only marvel at Rafis brilliant rendering of the two songs. Rafi characteristically remarked, No one else except Kishore could sing Dukhi Man Mera in Funtoosh so well.
Salil Choudhury was not favourably inclined towards Rafi at one point of time, but even he was compelled to use Rafi for the unforgettable Tootey Huey Khuabo Nay in Madhumati and Koi Soney Ke Dil Wala in Maya and confess that Rafi was indeed peerless.
It is generally known that Rafi and Kishore went through a bad patch in their relationship. Yet it is also true that both liked and respected each other. S.D. Burman openly admitted to Kishore that the three solos in Guide by Rafi could not be matched by any singer. On Dev Anands special request, he composed the Kishore-Lata super hit duet Gata Rahe Mera Dil for Guide. Similarly, Rafis numbers in Teen Deviyan and the haunting duet with Lata Mangeshkar in Jewel Thief were far superior to the Kishore numbers in these films.
In the late 60s when R.D. Burman composed the melody for Tum Bin Jaaun Kahan in Pyar Ka Mausam, he experimented the same solo with both Rafi and Kishore. True, Kishore sang this number by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. But in the romantic number, Rafi scored over Kishore in melody.
The 60s was also considered Rafis decade though Kishore matured considerably as a singer during this period. The Jungle Mein Mangal number Woh Din Ke Baat Sharan Karo had both Rafi and Kishore together but is somehow not remembered that well. But Shanker Jaikishans Hanste Gate Jahan Se Guzar in Andaz by Rafi quite eclipsed Kishores entire Zindagi Ek Safar in 1971.
Madan Mohan also used both Rafi and Kishore in the song Yu Na Sharma for Parwana in 1972. Kishore sang the happy rendition for hero Navin Nischal. But there was Rafi again to do full justice to the Are Hansnewale, the melancholic aspect of the same song for Amitabh Bachchan.
In the 1970s the Kishore Kumar wave took the Hindi film music by storm and was backed by R.D. Burman. Some critics felt R.D was partial to Kishore and avoided using Rafi. The Rafi Kishore duet Yaadon Ki Barat from the film with the same title in 1973 turned out to be a superhit. But it cannot be categorised either as an exclusive Rafi or a Kishore gem for both sang in perfect harmony.
Subsequently, R.D. Burman opted for Rafi again after four years as no other singer could have rendered so skillfully Chand Mera Dil and Kya Hua in Hum Kisi Se Kum Nahin; that too in a film with many Kishore Kumar superhits like Mil Gaya and Aa Meri Jaan.
When Rafi sang Darde Dil for Laxmikant Pyarelal in Karz in1980 based on a single note, he proved melody was indeed God-gifted to him, remembers upcoming singer Sujan Bose. Kishores Ay Mere Umar Ke and Ek Hasina Thi could not touch that level. The same can be said for Rajesh Roshan’s Yarana where Rafi’s Aare Re Aisa Tarana completely surpassed Kishore’s Sara Zamana and Tere Jaisa.
Mohd. Rafi left for his heavenly abode on 31 July, 25 years ago. Remembers author Nabaran Bhattacharya, The photo of a silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
As Kishore himself said when Jagjit Singh criticised the Rafi gharana, How dare these so-called ghazal singers criticise an icon that Manna Dey, Mukesh and I dare not criticise. Rafi was unique.
DEAR TIM ,
This your BLOG statement :
” The statements of neutrals are very interesting: Rafi neutrals say “both the singers are good, although Rafi is the best, yet Kishore has versatility, however, he lacks something, but, indeed, a popular singer, nevertheless lucky, but only mediocre, I like both, but Rafi mostâ€. Kishore neutrals say: “both cannot be compared for the simple reason that both are good – one is cricket other is football, I am a Rafi fan too, Kishore is of 70s Rafi is of 60s, yet Rafi never did yodel or comedy, so you have to accept that Kishore is also good!â€
BOSS !!!! Dont make such funny statements ……
Listen to the following :
1.) DIL KE AINE MEIN ….. ( Rafi Sahab Has done Yodelling )
2.) Ae Dil hain mushkil …..
3.) Sar Jo Tera Chakraye……..
4.) Mein Zindagi Ka Saath ……
5.) Ramaiya Vastavaiya … ( Mukesh later f****d this song with his nasal
voice )
6.) Savere Waali Gaadi Se …….
7.) Aaj Cricket Match……..
8.) O Akalmand ….. duet with KK
9.) Dil Ka Bhanwar Kare Pukaar……
10.) And the one and only ” GOVINDA ALA RE ……. ”
TIM kindly listen to the above songs and apologize for saying RAFI SAHAB never sang COMEDY , YODELLING etc……..
Also RAFI SAHAB has and can sing KK songs but ask KK and his fans whether he can sing any of RAFI SAHAB’s songs in that QUALITY…….
TUM BIN JAAO KAHAN … for which AVI is saying is best sung by KK …
The fact is that RDB recorded RAFI SAHAB’S Voice first for Shashi Kapoor and then he gave that tape to KK for practising and understanding the mode…after 1 week KK’s voice was recorded…Uneccessary yodelling has spoiled that song because the siatuation in the film was that BHARAT BHUSHAN was really sad as per the plot …but KK yodelled and that song landed no where…………
TIM please do the needful.
Regards
Sagar
Dear AVI,
Veyr well said I need to Improve but you know when I will when you and KK will stop bothering the MUSIC world .
I read your previous BLOG where you had written the following :
Please answer me do u visualize Amitabh when u hear?
1. Manzilein apni jagah hai
2. KISI Baat par main kisi se khafa hu
3. O saathi re tere bina bhi kya jeena
On the basis of 3 songs you are asking us a question whether we visualize Amitabh or not ? Let me ask you and tell you final thing that there are more than 30,000 songs by RAFI SAHAB which when heard we can only visualize the ACTORS … don’t you realize this.
And as far as accepting my challenge is that you don’t have that DUM in you to accept it you are as good as KK who never accepted or sang any songs which meant pure divine MUSIC… he always sang MEDIOCRE,MONOTNOUS songs in his entire career and he got support from RDB,SDB etc… these BENGALI’S were supported by DANGEROUS NIGHT TINGLING SISTERS.
Anyways AVI I don’t think there is any point talking with you because I have realized you are complete waste due to listening to KK songs, wish you had heard some songs of RAFI SAHAB as well.
**************************************************************
FRIENDS AND FOES , Our friend AVI is in deep trouble he needs medical help …. please help him out…………
Regards
Sagar
The number of blogs is nearing 600 – a number which is scaring for someone who wants to read and understand the arguments; laborious and daunting task. Well, there is some relief; as regards the Kishoreans’ blogs, reading those in the tens are enough, as the reader can find the same content (Tim would not say arguments) even in five hundreds. It is the same banal stuff song no.1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 touches the soul of the blogger, yodeling, and comedy. Recently, some Rafians tried to get the Kishoreans in constructive lines by asking doubts about Mr. Kumar’s aptitudes, relationship with Rafi and other colleagues, etc. Well, should silence be treated as ignorance or wisdom? In the whole affair, one must appreciate the dedication of Rafians; they do vertical and horizontal research to expose the positives of their singer. The long lists of movie and song names and statistics are the examples. They even come with the philosophy and science of music and demonstrate how well their singer fits it into. In response for all these efforts they get yodeling, comedy, and song no.1, 2, 3, 4, and five, plus the hollow emphasis on versatility.
Some one admitted both the singers to the engineering stream; one in IIT and the other in regional engineering college. Since Rafi being in the hierarchically higher institution, Rafians gave a positive nod to it. But Tim is surprised how come the other came to the business of engineering colleges without knowing basic math. Yes, now Kishoreans will say that even though Mr. Kumar did not know math, he has done some sums; sums like one plus one is two, two plus two is three. Ah! What high quality sums.
The statements of neutrals are very interesting: Rafi neutrals say “both the singers are good, although Rafi is the best, yet Kishore has versatility, however, he lacks something, but, indeed, a popular singer, nevertheless lucky, but only mediocre, I like both, but Rafi mostâ€. Kishore neutrals say: “both cannot be compared for the simple reason that both are good – one is cricket other is football, I am a Rafi fan too, Kishore is of 70s Rafi is of 60s, yet Rafi never did yodel or comedy, so you have to accept that Kishore is also good!â€
As the number is climbing upwards, it seems that something like a Stockholm syndrome (but no hostages or captives) is developing between the bloggers of both sides. They need each other; badly. Probably, this is the cause of all provocations.
Hi Avi,
You are showing complete ignorance on the 71% Rajesh & Amitabh film fare nominations contribution for KK. None of the singers have such a huge contribution from a just one or two actors. Again & again you are shifting the focus of discussion by stating KK sang for many actors. We are aware that KK sang for many actors.
Again more songs – all favorites, more comparisons (concealed delight of Kishoreans are fully on), more statistics, spiritual elevations (an inherent feature of Rafi songs), attribution of that spirituality to lyricist and composer by the other side. Among all these, what I like most is the ascription of an “ever gloomy man†to Bharat Bhooshan; poor chap. Can’t resist from laughing. He too, like many others, became scapegoat for somebody else’s flaw. The logic is overall amazing – if Mr. Kumar is successful, that’s his talent (a term repeatedly emphasized by Kishoreans, do not know why?), and if someone points out a flaw, it’s because the actor has a dull face, the harmonium was old; poor tools, they always get the blame, for what?
Filmfare awards are also back to debate. For Rafians 6 is a handsome number. This is what the other side dislikes; they were proud of 8 (four of which came when the kingdom was forlorn) and when Rafians come with 6 (five of which were when awards were given on a non-genderical basis), Kishoreans feel “afterall awards are immaterialâ€. Kumar Sanu (the so called clone) with 5 consecutives is a threat for Kishoreans. Its okay, awards are immaterial!
Again more songs – all favorites, more comparisons (concealed delight of Kishoreans are fully on), more statistics, spiritual elevations (an inherent feature of Rafi songs), attribution of that spirituality to lyricist and composer by the other side. Among all these, what I like most is the ascription of an “ever gloomy man†to Bharat Bhooshan; poor chap. Can’t resist from laughing. He too, like many others, became scapegoat for somebody else’s flaw. The logic is overall amazing – if Mr. Kumar is successful, that’s his talent (a term repeatedly emphasized by Kishoreans, do not know why?), and if someone points out a flaw, it’s because the actor has a dull face, the harmonium was old; poor tools, they always get the blame, for what?
Filmfare awards are also back to debate. For Rafians 6 is a handsome number. This is what the other side dislikes; they were proud of 8 (four of which came when the kingdom was forlorn) and when Rafians come with 6 (five of which were when awards were given on a non-genderical basis), Kishoreans feel “afterall awards are immaterialâ€. Kumar Sanu (the so called clone) with 5 consecutives is a threat for Kishoreans. Its okay, awards are immaterial!
Two advises were given to Tim; 1) close the ears and 2) listen to the same song again. Eh?
Hi Avi,
Don’t get so frustrated, just relax. It is just analysis as per actual facts. I can understand your state of mind, some times it is difficult to digest the reality.
I agree with you indeed 70s for KK’s period, but great singers like Rafi and Mukesh did not fade with KK’s dominence. In fact they won nominations, sang till their last breath and died with their boots on. The same holds true for SD Burman also. Very few get this previlage.
Praban das
Hi I am Rafi Sahab’s Fan
This is for Mr Avi & Shankar
Rafi Sahab and KK was both great singer no doubt , but as compare KK was far away from Rafi Sahab
why are you two simply argiving with Rafi Sahab Fans that also at Rafi Sahab site , if you’all want to fight or argive , you can go on KK’s site
I request you Both of you please quit from this site
Thanks
Pranab Das
Dear Anmol Singh,
I have seen ur comment on Kumar Sanu. Does it mean Kumar Sanu is better than Rafi because he sang for all actors n he received 5 filmfare award in lesser time Rafi. I thought you are one who knows music even though you are bias toward Rafi but its OK because everyone has their own favorite but ur comment on Kumar Sanu is disaapointed. I am sure you would not like if i compare Rafi with Kumar Sanu.
Of course my views are personal but i know many mature people who regards kishore for his innovation. I never said Pran was in jury but he was winner for Best character actor in “Beimaan”. You did not get what i meant to convey.
There is no truth that kishore presence was there because of Rajesh Khanna and Amitabh Bachhan.
Please answer me do u visualize Amitabh when u hear?
1. Manzilein apni jagah hai
2. KISI Baat par main kisi se khafa hu
3. O saathi re tere bina bhi kya jeena
Many more….
It is same as
1. Mujhe teri MOhabbat ka
2. Yaad na jaye bite dino ki….
Above songs are picturized on Rajendra Kumar, I never think of rajendra when i listen these songs.
But yes i rememeber Mehmood when i listen .”HUM KAALE HAI TO KYA HUA DILWALE HAI”
I remeber SHAMMI when i listen “TARIF KARU KYA USKI”
as i remeber Amitabh when i listen
“BUZURGO ne Farmaya ke apne payron”
I am sorry to say that there is no sense in a point what u made, Anmol.
Let me remind you one thing Anmol, People started taking Kishore seriously from “JHUMAROO” and “DOOR GAGAN ki CHHAON ME”. He become one of the great competitor for Rafi and mUkesh after 65 and he bacame no. 1 after 69.
I would be agree if you say SDB played an important role in KISHORE’s career as Naushad play in Rafi’s career but noone going to accept that Kishore existence was relied on rajesh Khanna. I would like to remind you that after 80 kishore gave amazing songs for Anil kapoor, jackie Shroff, Sunny deol apart from Rajesh Khanna n Bachhan.
Dear Mohan Flora, 🙂
“O Manjhi chal, o manjhi chal”…fantastic song. If your issue resolved because of this song then you can give creadit to Rafi but please don’t forget LP/Majrooh. It was his imagination. This song would have been famous if it had been sung by Mukesh also. May be Mukesh would have not done justice to this song as rafi did.
Good composition never wait for great voice. This is valid for everybody.
Hope you would have got my point.
Dear Tim,
Ur knowledge is very poor. Kishore song in PYAAR KA MOUSAM is not sad song please watch it once again. Don’t go by Bharat Bhushan face, he always look sad. 🙂
If you are saying Rafi song was better than KISHORE then i can’t help you there because world know who was better in that version. I would suggest you to stay away from the singer you don’t like. Please close ur ear whenevr you start listen Kishore’s song. If you are not able to do so, please consult psychiatrics or ask me i will suggest few Rafi’s pathetic song.
Dear Tim. One gentle advice for you.
Pls. listen the same song once again without thinking that u r rafi fan/Kishore fan, u will get the answer.
Dear Sagar,
I did not want to answer you but gentle advice for you.
First get mature, and i promise i will accept ur challenge then.
But unfortunately, You don’t have basic ingradiant of becoming a good and mature human being
Dear Anmol Singh,
I have seen ur comment on Kumar Sanu. Does it mean Kumar Sanu is better than Rafi because he sang for all actors n he received 5 filmfare award in lesser time Rafi. I thought you are one who knows music even though you are bias toward Rafi but its OK because everyone has their own favorite but ur comment on Kumar Sanu is disaapointed. I am sure you would not like if i compare Rafi with Kumar Sanu.
Of course my view are personal but i know many mature people who regards kishore for his innovation. I never said Pran was in jury but he was winner for Best character actor in “Beimaan”. You did not get what i meant to convey.
There is no truth that kishore presence was there because of Rajesh Khanna and Amitabh Bachhan.
Please answer me do u visualize Amitabh when u hear?
1. Manzilein apni jagah hai
2. KISI Baat par main kisi se khafa hu
3. O saathi re tere bina bhi kya jeena
Many more….
It is same as
1. Mujhe teri MOhabbat ka
2. Yaad na jaye bite dino ki….
Above songs are picturized on Rajendra Kumar, I never think of rajendra when i listen these songs.
But yes i rememeber Mehmood when i listen .”HUM KAALE HAI TO KYA HUA DILWALE HAI”
I remeber SHAMMI when i listen “TARIF KARU KYA USKI”
as i remeber Amitabh when i listen
“BUZURGO ne Farmaya ke apne payron”
I am sorry to say that there is no sense in a point what u made, Anmol.
Let me remind you one thing Anmol, People started taking Kishore seriously from “JHUMAROO” and “DOOR GAGAN ki CHHAON ME”. He become one of the great competitor for Rafi and mUkesh after 65 and he bacame no. 1 after 69.
I would be agree if you say SDB played an important role in KISHORE’s career as Naushad play in Rafi’s career but noone going to accept that Kishore existence was relied on rajesh Khanna. I would like to remind you that after 80 kishore gave amazing songs for Anil kapoor, jackie Shroff, Sunny deol apart from Rajesh Khanna n Bachhan.
Dear Mohan Flora, 🙂
“O Manjhi chal, o manjhi chal”…fantastic song. If your issue resolved because of this song then you can give creadit to Rafi but please don’t forget LP/Majrooh. It was his imagination. This song would have been famous if it had been sung by Mukesh also. May be Mukesh would have not done justice to this song as rafi did.
Good composition never wait for great voice. This is valid for everybody.
Hope you would have got my point.
Dear Tim,
Ur knowledge is very poor. Kishore song in PYAAR KA MOUSAM is not sad song please watch it once again. Don’t go by Bharat Bhushan face, he always look sad. 🙂
If you are saying Rafi song was better than KISHORE then i can’t help you there because world know who was better in that version. I would suggest you to stay away from the singer you don’t like. Please close ur ear whenevr you start listen Kishore’s song. If you are not able to do so, please consult psychiatrics or ask me i will suggest few Rafi’s pathetic song.
Dear Tim. One gentle advice for you.
Pls. listen the same song once again without thinking that u r rafi fan/Kishore fan, u will get the answer.
Dear Sagar,
I did not want to answer you but gentle advice for you.
First get mature, and i promise i will accept ur challenge then.
But unfortunately, You don’t have basic ingradiant of becoming a good and mature human being
Living in a foreign country- whenever I listen to the above song, “Jahaan daal daal par sone ki chhidiya karti basera “I feel proud of my country-India- and tears start rolling down my eyes-IN PRIDE AND HAPPINESS- But no one plays it here in a faraway land. I play it to myself sometimes and fantasize about the Sone Ki Chidiya- that my country once was. It is only Rafi who can give these thoughts,feelings and touch your heart about Bharatdesh. Others don’t count at all-Rafisaab all the way!
The Song “Jahan Dal Dal Pe chidiya” is a combination of devotion and patriosim, some thing very unique. It starts with the praise of the Almighty and then India. Certainly it makes all prove to be an Indian.
The song is played during Independence day in schools in India.
Dear Avi and Shankar,
i think KK is like u r God father and u can’t see.I hope u understant what i mean.
dear KK fans,
The film maker they made around three films on Bhagat singh(maybe more)but the best is when mohd Rafi singed Ae Watan,Ae Watan,humko teri kasam and Kar Chale hum Fide who else can sing these songs,Please see all films on Bhagat Singh(I hope the u know Bhagat singh).
Please listen to †Jahan Dal Dal Pe chidiyaâ€and there are many other songs on Bharat(India)If u listen these songs I think u will forget all singers jest u remmber only Mohd Rafi.I am not from bharat but when I listen this †Jahan Dal Dal Pe chidiya†i feel that I am from bharat that is the magic of voice of Mohd Rafi
Hi Avi,
Most of yours views and analysis are personal but not as per actual facts. It’s is a like a student who says that I worked hard, but dispite that his marks are not as per expections. We know that every one works hard but finaly a student’s worth is evaluation by what is the final score.
“I am also not sure why he did not get award for JULIE. Rajesh Roshan got award. Did u think it was right? I am not thinking so.”
Julie is Rajesh Roshan’s one of best works. Plus all the songs charish mass appeal, including a devotional number “Sacha Naam Tera” & and english number “My heart Beating”.
“I hope u know Pran denied to receive filmfare award because that year music award goes to BEIMAAN instead of PAAKIZA. So it happens.”
It is Pran’s view, Pran is not part of the Jurry to decide. Paakiza has fabulous music, but popular among certain section of audience. But other films songs SHOR and BEIMAAN are popular with large mass audience.
“Do you think Rafi deserver award for “HUM KISI SE KAM NAHIâ€. I think he doesn’t but yes he deserve award for AMAR AKBAR ANTHoNY.”
This song has Fimfare and National Award to its credit. Both are not linked to each other, there are independent Jurys to judge both. Possibly both cannot be wrong.
Coming back to KK, we are aware that KK has sung many fabolous numbers for many actors. As pointed by our dear friend Shanker that KK’s career started some where in the mid fifties. We also think of the same. But the results of entire KK span gives a different picture all together.
The onscreen presense of Rajesh K and Amitabh B plays a major part in KK’s career, which continues till mid eighties i.e. 1969 to 1987. It is not that only Rajesh & Amitabh were successful actors and other didn’t do well. Many films apart from Rajesh & Amitabh were also bit hits.
Many Dev Anand starter movies prior to 1969 have KK numbers which are big hits in their times. Example – Faantoosh, Nau Do Garah, Jewel Thief, Paying Guest, etc.
He doesn’t manage a single nomination for his own performance on screen as an actor and singer.
When Rajesh Khanna comes on screen, then suddenly KK comes into limelight from the grave. Similarly when Amitabh performs KK’s work gets highlighted. 20 out 28 nominations all together contributed by these two. KK performs equally well and in some cases better for other actors but does not manage as many nominations compared to Rajesh K and Amitabh.
So therefore is it Rajesh K & Amitabh’s screen success the major factor and the main drive force in KK’s success?
The same does not hold true for KK’s clone Kumar Sanu. He is not associated with any actor as such. Plus statistics also reveal the same
Year Song Actor Success
1990 Ab Tere Bin Rahul Roy Won
1991 Mera Dil Bhi Kitna Sanjay Dutt Won
1992 Sochenge Tum Pyar Rishi Kap Won
1993 Ye Kali Kali Anke Shah Ruk Won
1994 Ek ladki ko dekha Anil Kap Won
1995 Tuje Dekha To Shah Ruk
1997 Do Dil Mil Rahe Shah Ruk
1999 Aankhon Ki Salman K
2002 Sanam Mere Humraaz Bobby Deol
Kumar Sanu didn’t had to wait for Shah Rukh Khan to be successful. Shah Rukh was the most successful actor in 90s. But KK had to wait for Rajesh Kh and Amitabh B to come into limelight.
Dear Friends,
A work related topic had many of us worried today. There was a lot of suspense. At lunch, some of us decided to go out. On the way back to office, I put on a CD. After the first song, a Mukesh-Lata duet from Milan, came the Rafi song ‘O Majhi Chal, O Majhi Chal” from Aaya Sawan Jhoomke! Man, what a song. It is a song of hope-aasha among niraasha-and Rafisaab has sung it in a happy mode-his voice giving hope. I had never listened to the song so profoundly. One of my colleagues said,”Bhaji, dobara lao!”. We heard it again, Boy, what a mesmerising voice- and he gave hope. We reached our office, went to work. In the evening, the work related problem was solved and all of us came home in high spirits. Was it Rafi’s hand?
They say many Rafi fans degrade their favourite singer known by the eleventh English alphabet, if repeated. Yet, there is something in this whole forum that means a lot for them, that they are feeling proud to see that their favourite singer is being compared with the God of music – a concealed delight. As for the Rafi fans, they are unhappy to see that Divine Voice is being compared with mediocrity – a revulsion, which takes the form of degrading (as accused of) or, say, they bare the facts in plain language (this is more logical).
At some point, Rafi fans felt it worthless to discuss – sermon to deaf ears is pointless. They began to creatively explore the divinity in that Divine voice, although it is beyond words. Then the other group was deprived of their delight. No more comparisons. Uh! Hence they started all over again…..and thereby giving satirists like me a chance to blog.
Many creative music directors also fell into the commercial and cultural trap of the early 70s. Well, why should they be blamed; good music cannot replace the bread in the plate. Many might have been under terrible feeling of guilt, as they too were accomplices, although silent, in the musical holocaust. Some of them, as if against the law of the sphere and doing some guilt, went to Rafi; might have thought “when we leave the world, we should be known as the defenders of music during its dark agesâ€. They indeed were successful with the divine voice; angels! A couple of them, very honest, tried a sort of refinement, but things were made beyond repair by the trio – the mentor, the singer, and the actor.
The silliness of the 70s climbed that level that the singer needs artificial things like Pan to produce music. Oh God, so does it mean that music does not emanate from the heart? Next time when I sing a song about war and peace, I will carry a gun and dove on both hands. I am a teetotaler; how can then I sing a song supposed to be of a boozed tone?
I have recently seen a song from the movie Pyar Ka Mausam; a father nurturing his child or whatever is, he is very sad and in that sad state he is doing sporadic yodeling, that even, as if he is merry. All the years I never knew that it was a sad song. It is said that this silly number is better than a beautiful romantic number in the film. By the way who is the singer of the former one? I wish to stay away from him.
A black-sheep for the media (do not why; paradox!), a corner of jealousness for the colleagues (it is evident), a somewhat hostile music director (who managed a brief period of popularity as well) and his pet, and many more off-putting factors around; Rafi who created mehfils for millions of hearts did not get one around him. Yet, he virtually ruled, then struggled for a brief period, and fought back his kingdom. Many times I wonder, has he had some talisman that transformed everything he touched with his voice into gold (gold is too worthless an exemplar for that voice)? If he had one, I must say, God is so impartial to others, even those who are said to have conquered the heights of music, that he bestowed his whole musical wealth to this man. Now let me say, how far media, or jelousness, or a music detector (one who detects from elsewhere) and his pet can overcome God’s own voice? Yes! That’s Rafi and his success.
Another singer (obviously with aptitude), media kept him on eye lids and followed the logic of multiplication whenever they exposed him, his mentor had a successful time, one commercial hero’s (another mediocre) low musical taste; what else is needed for mediocrity to rise to popularly? He had many flaws, but the “favourables†around him glorified the flaws as innovations – a curse for music. Music lamented in agony, however, was pacified by the turnover statistics. Needless to say, Music is divine; it cannot be deceived for ever. The success story continued, but it could not erase the stains. When ever world speak of him…is not a prick somewhere that he failed to give quality?
Talent and divinity cannot be suppressed even when it is 1971-76, flaws too….
dear Avi,
would u please answer me why people said that music start in 1950’s when Mohd Rafi was new,the best time of music was 1960’s when Mohd Rafi singed most of songs,became old in 1970’s when there was kk or u can say that Mohd Rafi didn’t sing much,The music end in 1980?
Is it not mean that good music start with mohd Rafi and end with mohd Rafi?
Hello fans!
In fact, Rafi fans’ dialogues with KK (as he is baptized here) fans (relatively less in number in this forum, may be that it is not home ground) help others discard what all musical talents they have thought of as present in Mr. Kumar and virtually liked him. A neutral person can learn a lot about Mr. Mohammed Rafi and naturally develop a love and respect for him, as his fans have put forward a rich pack of information and credible explanation for why should one like Mr. Rafi; these are notwithstanding his soul-stirring songs that can elevate one to sublimely heights.
The other side says that Mr. Kumar should be liked because his fans like some of his songs, say, song no 1, 2, and 3, which touch the soul. Whose soul? Oh! their souls. What else? Oh, yodeling, but all songs cannot be sung in yodel. It, afterall, is only a touch which sounds good in one or two songs.
No thanks, I will listen to Mr. Rafi.
Well, that’s it from me……
Bye fans
Fellow Bloggers, let us not ask Avi to leave. In the mold of Mohd Rafi, let us welcome his input, no matter how absurd it may sound. My thought is his mind believes that Rafi was the greatest, but his blind loyality to KK forces him to defend KK. We Rafi fans will keep expressing our views and may be one day Avi will come to the same conclusion that a singer like Rafi will never be born. Rafi was not only par excellence in singing, but an extremely kind and generous person. KK on the other hand married 4 times, was arrogant and a miser. In singing I consider him an average. I preferred Mukesh and Munna Day anyday to KK.
dear Avi,
Please give me one song in which KK singed it Free,please listen Mohd Rafi songs by RD,Do u know more than Madan Mohan.Ravi,LP,Naushand,O P N,SJ,Manny Day,…..?
Give me Rd film in all songs are hit and K A?
DEAR AVI,
STOP FLOODING THIS SITE AND GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE WITH YOUR KK MAN…………I HAVE GIVEN YOU A CHALLENGE WHAT HAPPENED ABOUT THAT ????/ YOU ARE BRINGING SAME MEDIOCRE SONGS OF KISHORE AND WHAT THE HELL IS THIS ” NAME LIST ” ………………… THE ACTORS WHICH YOU HAVE MENTIONED ALL HAD MEDIOCRE SONGS WHICH KK HAS SUNG …. BEHAVE YOURSELF AND SHOW SOME GOOD QUALITIES AND BRING SOME GOOD POINTS DON’T YOU HAVE ANY WORK RATHER THAN TO SIT ON NET AND POST NONSENSE POSTS / BLOGS AND DISTURB RAFI FANS…………
HOW MANY TIMES AND IN WHICH LANGUAGE SHOULD WE ALL TELL YOU THAT THIS IS A MUSIC ROOM NOT A MONKEY ROOM…….
NOW GO AND GET SOME GOOD TOPIC RELATED TO MUSIC THEN CALL FOR A DEBATE ….. WE ALL ARE BUSY HERE DON’T HAVE TIME FOR USELESS / HOPELESS / GIBBRISH THINGS SO MOVE ON………………
AND LET ME TELL YOU ONE THING ….
” KK WAS MADE BY MD’S , MANGESHKAR SISTERS / AND BENGALI MD’s.
BUT MOHD.RAFI SAHAB MADE EVERYONE IMMORTAL BY LENDING HIS VOICE TO ALL ACTORS/MDS ETC………….. ”
SO WHERE IS YOUR STAKE NOW ? IF TALKING ABOUT FILMFARE AWARDS DO YOU REALLY THINK THEY WERE GIVEN WITHOUT BEING PARTIAL ??????????????? WHEN IT CAME TO REAL SINGING , HEART TOUCHING SINGING RAFI SAHAB WAS RECALLED AND SO YOU WILL NOT FIND ANY DULL DONG BY RAFI SAHAB AND EVEN IF YOU FIND ANY IT WILL BE AGAIN IMMORTAL JUST BECAUSE RAFI SAHAB HAS GIVEN HIS VOICE ………….. HOW MANY SONGS DOES KK HAVE IN THIS CATEGORY ……… IF RD.BURMAN WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN THERE IF LATA/ASHA WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN THERE …WOULD THERE HAVE BEEN ANY ” KK ” AND IF YES THEN WHERE WAS ” KK ” BEFORE 1969 ???????????SO STOP MAKING ISSUES I ALREADY MADE MY VERDICT THAT MOHD.RAFI SAHAB IS,WAS,AND WILL BE THE BEST OF THE BEST HUMAN,SINGER,HUMBLE,CALM,PROFESSIONAL PERSON …………..DON’T BRING ” KK ” HERE HE HAS HIS OWN PLACE BUT THAT PLACE IS NOT THIS…………………
ONE MORE THING FILM ” YAADON KI BARAT ” SONG ” AAPKE KAMRE MEIN KOI RAHTA HAIN ” ??????????? DO THAT SONG HAS ANY MEANING JUST CHECK OUT HOW KK HAS TORN HIS VOICE ….. SEEMS LIKE HE IS READING A BOOK …….AND DANGEROUS ASHA IS GIVING HIM COMPANY ……. BUT JUST LISTEN ” JAANEWALO JARA ” FROM FILM ” DOSTI ” AND THEN TELL ME HOW YOUR HEART REACTS , I BET YOU WILL CALM DOWN ………… SO TRY THESE ANALYSIS AND DONT FALL FOR FALSE THINGS . AND IF YOU WANT TO , THEN DONT DISTURB US PLEASE.
REGARDS
SAGAR
Dear Aryan,
For you. If you think list is too short, i can send more…
Sr. No. Actor
1 Kishore
2 Dev Anand
3 Johny Walker
4 Ashok Kumar
5 Uttam Kumar
6 Utpal Dutt
7 Faruq Sheikh
8 Amol Palekar
9 Amitabh
10 Shashi Kapoor
11 Randhir Kapoor
12 Rishi Kapoor
13 Rajeev Kapoor
14 Raj Kapoor ( 1 song)
Shhammi Kapoor
15 Dilip Kumar
16 Jagdeep
17 Danny
18 Shakti Kapoor
19 Rajesh Khanna
20 Vishwajeet
21 Mithun
22 Rakesh Roshan
23 Anil Kapoor
24 Govinda
25 Sunny Deol
26 Chunky Pandey
27 Uttam Kumar
28 Vijay Anand
29 Parikshit Sahani
30 Vikram
31 Vinod Mehra
32 Vinod Khanna
33 Sanjay Khan
34 Feroz Khan
35 Akbar Khan
36 Sanjeev Kumar
37 Mehmood
38 Jeetendra
39 Dharmendra
40 Pran
41 Navin Nischal
42 Asrani
43 I S Johar
44 ANIL Dhawan
45 Sanjay Dutt
46 Sunil Dutt
47 Vishal (CHALTE CHALTE–ACTOR)
48 DAULAT KE DUSHAMAN — Actor–Not known
49 Kumar Gaurav
50 Kunal Goswami
51 Shutrughan Sinha
Dear Anmol,
On ur comment…Personality influenced..
A singer is just a tool in the hands of the composer, and cannot pick and choose to satiate his inner urges.
70’s n 80’s era was belong to Rajesh Khanna n AMitabh so most of the KISHORE songs u can see on these 2 super stars where it was not the case in 50’s n 60’s.
Dear Aryan,
Here is list of Kishore:
Sr. No. Actor
================
1 Kishore-himself
2 Dev Anand
3 Johny Walker
4 Ashok Kumar
5 Uttam Kumar
6 Utpal Dutt
7 Faruq Sheikh
8 Amol Palekar
9 Amitabh
10 Shashi Kapoor
11 Randhir Kapoor
12 Rishi Kapoor
13 Rajeev Kapoor
14 Raj Kapoor
Shhammi Kapoor
15 Dilip Kumar
16 Jagdeep
17 Danny
18 Shakti Kapoor
19 Rajesh Khanna
20 Vishwajeet
21 Mithun
22 Rakesh Roshan
23 Anil Kapoor
24 Govinda
25 Sunny Deol
26 Chunky Pandey
27 Uttam Kumar
28 Vijay Anand
29 Parikshit Sahani
30 Vikram
31 Vinod Mehra
32 Vinod Khanna
33 Sanjay Khan
34 Feroz Khan
35 Akbar Khan
36 Sanjeev Kumar
37 Mehmood
38 Jeetendra
39 Dharmendra
40 Pran
41 Navin Nischal
42 Asrani
43 I S Johar
44 ANIL Dhawan
45 Sanjay Dutt
46 Sunil Dutt
47 Vishal (CHALTE CHALTE–ACTOR)
48 DAULAT KE DUSHAMAN — Actor–Not known
49 Kumar Gaurav
50 Kunal Goswami
51 Shutrughan Sinha
If u want i can send few more 🙂
Dear Anmol,
I don’t know why he did not get nomination before 69. But i feel from heart that he should have got not only nomination but also award for…
1. KHUSHI DO GHADI KI
2. KOI HUMDUM NA RAHA
3. KHWAB HO TUM YA KOI HAKIKAT
I am also not sure why he did not get award for JULIE. Rajesh Roshan got award. Did u think it was right? I am not thinking so.
I hope u know Pran denied to receive filmfare award because that year music award goes to BEIMAAN instead of PAAKIZA. So it happens.
I don’t have any regret.
Do you think Rafi deserver award for “HUM KISI SE KAM NAHI”. I think he doesn’t but yes he deserve award for AMAR AKBAR ANTHoNY.
I have written in very hurry,pls. forgive me if i had made some grammetical/spelling mistake..
————————————————————————–
Dear Nair,
I am 101% sure that Amit kumar had not sung those line in DESH PREMI.He sang only few line for Navin Nischal in “JA JALDI BHAG JAA”
dear Ali,
I don’t want to compare the song Rafi sang for Rishi Kapoor and Kishore sang for Govinda. I know that Rafi sung for Govinda. This song was recorded long back n after that it was added to Govinda’s film. It is good song but not recognized.
Dear Ali,
U r getting me wrong. I know there was rift between Kishore and amitabh so that mst of his song went to other singers as u have ementioned. But again kishore sang for Bachhan in “Shahenshah” n “Ganga Jamuna Saraswati”.
Dear Unknown, I can understand. You can tell me child n many things as i am not penning what you want to read.
Dear Anmol,
Now you said correct things and let other Rafi fans read it. Kishore sang many good songs for many actors as Rafi sang
On Music composition as i said i never feel kishore lesser than USHA.
No doubt Usha Khanna gave many hits but if u see the ratio, Kishore would be ahead.
Few great composition from Kishore…
1. “Pyar Ajnabi Hai Jaane kaha se aaye”..Pl. listen this song…unreleased movie
This song is better than all USHA Khanna’s composition.
2. JHUMAROO.
All songs specially .
Main HU JHUM JHUM JHUMAROO FAKKAD GHUMU…
KOI HUMDUM NA RAHA..
3. Door Gagan ki chhao me
All songs..
4. PANTHI HU MAIn US PATH KA PANTH NAHI JISKA… “DOOR KA RAHI”
5. KHSHI DO GHADI KI MILE NA MILE .. “DOOR KA RAHI” (Hardly u can hear any music instrument except KISHORE’s voice)
Pls. listen Door Ka rahi songs. Its amazing…
Just consider above films with all USHA KHANNA’s composition which u had already mentioned in ur blog. I feel Kishore composition was/is better. I hope i’ve answered u.
Anmol, Not only me there are many people who listen kishore (his songs are stored in LAPTOP, iPOD n other non-visible devices) without any visual, so tell me how his songs are swayed by hero personality. I am totally disagree with ur view/analysis.
When i listen “MANZILEN APNI JAGAH HAI”, “KISI BAAT PAR ME KISI SE KHAFA HU”. I never think of Amitabh.
When i listen “PAL PAL DIl KE PAAS TUm RAHTI HO”, “HUM BEWAFA HAGIZ NA THE”..I never think of DHARMENDRA
When i listen “PEENE WALO KO PEENE KA”, “GUM HAI KISI KE PYAR ME”.
I never think of Randhir.
Why me, i am sure there r many music lover never think of actors when they listen Kishore so how could u people say that KISHORE success was personlaity dependent.
Why not Rafi become voice of Joy Mukerjee, Vishwajeet? When not Joy mukerjee become superstar even though 90% of his song sung by Rafi.
It is just happened that AMitabh and Rajesh hits are more in Kishore’s list as Rajendra Kumar, Shammi Kapoor are more in Rafi’s list.
We, KK fan, never said MUKESH Besura. It was Manna Dey who said him Besura. I have seen that inetrview and it is published in the site also. You can find it.
Personally i feel Mukesh is second singer after Kishore who touchess the heart from his soulful voice.
There are few unmatch song by MUKESH.
1. KHUSHI KI WO RAAT AA GAYI KOI GEET SAJANE DO
2. DEEWANo SE YE MAt PUCHHO..
Summary:
Singers are never personality dependant. This is valid for any singer but as they become voice of few actor like KISHORE/AMITABH/RAJESH, RAFI/RAJENDRA/SHAMMI, MUKESH/RAJ KAPOOR/MANOJ KUMAR(Few songs r great picturised on MANOJ KUMAR)
Thanx
From
Aryans
My Dear Friend AVI
I am a dyeing fan of Rafi Sahab
But I also respect KK , I like his song very much
As you have written earlier that KK had sung for several actors
Come on let us count for how man actors Rafi sahab has sung
I will write for Rafi sahab and you write for KK , let’s see who is the highest
1.Bharat Bhushan
2. Mahipal
3. Pradeep Kumar
4. Prithviraj Kapoor
5.Raj Kapoor
6. Shashi kapoor
7. Shammi kapoor
8.Rishi kapoor
9. Rajendra Kuamr
10. Raaj Kumar
11. Vishwajeet
12. Joy Mukherjee
13.Dilip Kumar
14. Manoj Kumar
15. Dharmendra
16.Jeetendra
17. Amitabh Bachhan
18. Amjad Khan
19. Johny Walker
20. Rakesh Roshan
21. Pran
22. Dev Anand
23. Anil Dhavan
24. Rajesh Khanna
25. Mithun Chakravarthy
26. Govinda
27. Sanjeev Kumar
28. Uncle David
29. Guru Dutt
30. Prem Nath
31. Ajit
32. Tariq
33. Vinod Khanna
34. Vinod Mehra
35. Shatrughan Sinha
36. SunilDutt
37. Parikshit Sahni
38. Sanjay Khan
39. Mehmood
40. Jr. Mehmood
41. Feroz Khan
42.Randhir Kapoor
43. Bhagwan
And for Kishore Kumar also
I have given you 44 names and many more are there , I don’t know their names, like actors from Dosti & Zanjeer
My Dear friend now you give me the answer for how many actors KK has sang
Dyeing Rafi Sahab Fan
ARYANS
If am not wrong that in this song “Pag Ghogroo Mira”(for Mr Bachchan) not KK singed all song,I am but sure.
Would u please tell us KK fans?
Hi Avi,
Your reply does not appear to be convincing at all. Earlier you claimed that KK is a better composer that Usha Khanna, we proved to completely wrong after detailed analysis. Since I didn’t see any reply from you on that topic I assume that you accept.
Lets leave the Hyderabadi discussion aside an concentrate on the nominations criteria. Perhaps neither of us are experts on the langauge.
The following songs selected for Nominations are very ordinary picturized on Rajesh K and Amitabh B
Main Pyaasa Tu – Amitabh
Khaike Paan – Amitabh
O Saathi Re – Amitabh
Pag Ghogroo Mira – Amitabh
Shayad Meri Shaadi – Rajesh
De De Pyar De – Amitabh
Compared to the above nominations KK has sung much better songs for many other actors which do not get highlighted in the nominations listings.
For Jitendra KK has done at lot of contribution
– Mein Jahan Chalaa Janu
– Mussafir Hun Yaaron
– Naino Mein Sapna….many more
For Dev Anand entire 70s was contributed by KK
– Pholon Ke rang Se
– Chudi Nahi mera Dil
– Dil Aaj Shayar Hai
– Kiska Rasta Dekhen
– Rook Jana O Jana Humse
– Panna Ki Tamanaa
– Kanchi Re Kanchi Re
– Nazaraana Bhejaa Kisse Ne Pyar Ka
– Pal Bhar Ke liye Koi
– O mere Raaja …many more
For Rishi-Nitu combination KK is marvalous
– Ek Mein Aur Ek Tu
– Baara Bajenge Suiyon Jaise
– Tere Chahre Se…..many more
In Julie KK sings for a small actor Vikram
– Dil Kya Kare
– Bhol Gya Sab Kuch
Rajesh Roshan gets an award and KK doesn’t manage to get a single nomination
For Amol Palekar
– Aane Wala Pal
– Batoon Batoon Mein Pyar
Other songs
– Teri Duniya Se Hoke Major Chala
– Thoda Hai Thode Ki Zaroorat
– Ek ritu Aaye
– Meri Soni Meri Tammana
– Geet Gata Hun Mein
– Bhavren Ki Gunjaan
– Chahiye thoda Pyar
– Chalte Chalte Mere Ye Geet…many more
All songs listed above are composed and picturized after 1969, which I believe are far superior than which are nominated. None of the above songs are picturized on Rajesh K and Amitabh B.
Many question is why is KK’s success factor so much personality dependent + why is he not able to come out of this personlity cult in the 80s when is making a huge contribution to actors like Jitendra and many new comers like Sanjay Dutt, Anil Kapoor, Jacki, Rajeev Kapoor, etc.
For your information KK had a rift with Amitabh in 80s, therefore many of his songs were sung by Shabbhir Kumar and Munna Aziz. Plus Rajesh K compared to 70s acted in few films in 80s.
Coming back to 70s which is supposed to be KK period. Rafi doesn’t have Shammi Kapoor, Rajendra K, Dilip K, Sunil D, etc to support him, similarly Mukesh doesn’t have Raj Kapoor with him. Rafi is able to manage 10 nominations in 70s without his loyalists + Mukesh manages 8 nominations with 1 from Raj Kapoor.
Both Rafi & Mukesh after enjoying their success in the 50s & 60s are able to fight back in the KK dominated period and are able to come out of the personality cult also. But KK continues with the personality factor in 80s till his death with max nominations coming from Rajesh K & Amitabh.
Most KK fans have termed Mukesh as BESURA singer. The fact is that Mukesh was slow in grasping compared to other singers. This was stated by Laximkant in one of his interviews.
So coming back to the point why is KK’s success factor so much personality dependent, though he sings remarkable scores for other actors as well?
Was this one of the factors that didn’t give him a single nomination prior to 1969 when he has many great songs under his credit?
dear Avi and KK fans,
please compare songs of Mohd Rafi which was singed for Rajesh Khanna or Bachchan with KK songs,yes u r right KK singed for all but MOSTLY kk songs became hit when he singed for Rajesh K,Bachahan and RD and Mohd Rafi songs became famous because it was singed by Mohd Rafi.
Dear Avi we can’t do anything to u because what said by sir Nair or Sir Anmol Singh or Sir sagar and many more and u stall saying the same ,sorry 2 say that u look like a child who is like that when u said him it is wrong he not understant between wrong and right how u say to a child.
dear Avi
As you said Rafi sang from Dilip Kumar to Rishi Kapoor, Kishore also sang from Dilip Kimar to Govinda.dear Avi u r wrong because Mohd Rafi singed for Govinda.Ok please compare songs of Rishi K with singed by Mohd Rafi and Govinda by KK and also compare songs of Dilip Kumar.
Avi I think u r not KK fans,
Dear AVI,
KALYAN BHAI AND ANAND BHAI BETTER KNOW AS KALYANJI AND ANANDJI SHAH THEY WERE GOOD IN YESTERYEARS BUT IN MID EIGHTIES OR RATHER AFTER EIGHTIES THEY SOUNDED MORE LIKE ” BANDWALLAS” INSTEAD MUSICIAN , YES ” BANDWALLAS” WHICH WE SEE AND HEAR IN WEDDING CEREMONY ……….SO BANDWALLAS SAYING KISHORE BORN IN 1000 YEARS IS RIGHT …… DEFECT PIECE IS DEVELOPED ONCE IN THOUSAND YEARS SO WHATS WRONG IN THAT STATEMENT….BUT YOU HAVE FORGOTTEN THAT ” MASTERPIECE ” IS BORN WHEN GOD IS IN A GOOD MOOD …WHEN HE IS IN BAD MOOD ARTIST LIKE ” KK ” ARE BORN ………………………….
COMEON AVI I AM WAITING FOR YOU TO BRING SOME INTERESTING THREAD OF KK SO THAT I CAN DEBATE WITH YOU …..I APOLOGIZE FOR MY PREVIOUS BLOG SAYING YOU TO ” SHUT UP ” AND ” GET OUT ” …SO LET’S GET THIS ISSUE SORTED OUT …TELL ME ONE SUCH THING WHICH SUPERCEDES MOHD.RAFI SAHAB AND THEN I WILL REPLY PROPERLY TO YOU………….IS THAT OKAY NOW……….I HAVE TRIED MY LEVEL BEST TO CONVINCE YOU KK FANS THAT ” BAAP , AAKHIR BAAP HOTA HAIN ” …………. PHIR BHI TUM LOG USI BAAT PE AADE HO TOH AA JAON AISA KOI TOPIC LEKE JISME DUM HO……..
REGARDS
SAGAR
Nair saab
Yes it is Amit Kumar Kishores son who is singing in the above song.
I have to say I did not like that song as it sounds Kishore is trying too hard.
Khalid
The song “Khatoon ki khidmatâ€, the whole song, does not sound like Kishore Kumar. But may be because of the audio quality. There is a singer in that film who is unacknowledged in the audios available. This guy sings the song “Ja jaldi bhag ja†with Kishore Kumar. He starts with nai baba nai…… Then he says koi baat nahin….Then continues with Dekho gaur se deko Mr. Natwarlal ko…..(please listen carefully). He could be Amit Kumar, sounds like him. Probably, it is this guy, whoever, who spoke in “Khatoon ki khidmat”. I am not sure and Avi, please do not come to bite me for this…..I am really not sure…..just felt so.
dear avi,
y r u so fixated with this song “khatun ki kidmat” if u thnk this is the best song sung by kk then i must correct u tht this indeed is a vry poor song n i wont fight with u abt this song coz its ur personal view!! n pls do a favor for me list the films whr both rafi n kk sang n kk had a better song in the film? n pls listen to this song ‘mare pairon mein ghunghroo’ n ‘nain lad jaiyen’ n tell me if the dehati prounciation is bad in these songs?
Dear Anmol,
I stayed in Hyderabad for a year and i also have many hyderabadi muslim friend. I don’t want to contradict ur word. Pls. don’t misunderstood.
Why Rafi only emphasis on HAINNNNNN, there are many urdu/Hindi word which hyderabadi speaks in particular tone. It was missing in that song. This song is in pure Hindi but Rafi tried to give Hyderbadi touch.
Anmol sir, If u sing “AAA RI AA JAA, NINDIYA TU Le chal kahi” in Hyderabdi tone then beauty of the song will go off. Hyderabadi ascent looks good in funny songs. This is with reference to ur question on “KUNWARA BAAP”
“HUM kaale hai to kya hua dilwale”…doesn’t seems like, that song sung by hyderabdi guy except emphasising on few word. Personally I don’t like. Its my personal view. You can deny it.
May be i am wrong but all conversation is done by KISHORE in “Desh premi”. I have attached the details abt the same song below.
Pls. listen the line “VAADA NAHI KARTE HUM HYDERABDI ..AJII POTTI PATANA HAI FAKAT KAAM AAPUN kA”……..Fabulous.
Saagar,
my dear friend, Why should i get out of here. It is my duty to make u people aware that there is big world outside. It is not limited to Rafi.
Anmol, Please listen KISHORE full conversation in “HAATH KI SAFAi” …PEENE WALE KO PEENE KA BAHANA CHAHIYE.
First 2 minutes he just talked to hema malini as pakka BEWADYA…Randhir Kapoor tried hard to justice to this song. Please listen n tell me, is there anyone who can do justice to this song.
That is why Anandji from K-A Said KISHORE born once in 1000 years.
Dear Anmol, I sent my comment on ur filmfare analysis to make you people aware that Kishore also sang for his generation and his next generation hero as Rafi sang.
I just wanted to inform all Rafi fans that there is no truth if you say only Rafi sang for all actor or his voice suits to any actor. This is true in case of Kishore also.
After 80’s who can forget Paap ki duniya song which is inspired by some english tune, composed by Bappi Lahiri.
…CHORI CHORI U JAB HO AANKHE CHAAR KYA HOTA HAI.
…Marathi folk …MERA DIl TOTA BAN JAAYE KAISA MITHU MITHU BOLE HAI
Above 2 songs are picturised on Sunny Deol and Chunkey Pandey from same movie. There are many songs like this.
=========================================================
As per my knowldge, Kishore only rendered all the hyderabadi words for AMitabh. Please correct me if i am wrong with evidence..
///////////////////////
Anmol for ur reference:
Tane Din Tandana Lyrics
Hindi Movie/Album Name: Desh Premi
Singer(s): Kishore Kumar, Asha Bhosle
Hindi Lyrics:
ki : ari o potti kahaan chali
palat meri anaar ki kali
aa : badatameez
taane deen ( tandaana ) -3 -3
khaatoon ki khidamat mein salaam apun ka -2
( aji potti pataana hai ) -2 potti pataana hai
aji potti pataana hai faqat kaam apun ka
ghar-baar hua ishq mein neelaam apun ka
khaatoon ki khidamat …
baataan nahi karate ham haidaraabaadi -2
haathaan mein tere jo menhadi na laga di
to naam nahi lenge ( kabhi apane vatan ka ) -2
khaatoon ki khidamat …
gulabadan khaadim ke haathaan se munh mein daal ko chabaayenge
kya paan
ye paana mein mere kaleje ke tookade supaari ki jagah rakh ko
chabar-chabar ke chabar ja
mar mitane mein jaanam ham logaan hain maahir -2
ghus kar tere dil mein nikalenge na baahir -2
kharcha ho qafan ka na ( charcha ho dafan ka ) -2
khaatoon ki khidamat …
Hi Avi,
Rafi’s pronounciation of Hyderbadi word ‘Hain’ is correct. I had Hyderabadi Muslim neighbours for many years. I myself speak Hyderabadi Hindi quiet fluently + my wife is also from Hyderabad. Rafi sings the song in perfect Hyderabadi accend. Infact Rafi even conversates in the song in same for language for Mehmood.
On the contrary KK sings for Mehmood in Kuanra Baap without a single song in Hyderabadi accend. The only song ‘Mein Hun Ghoda Ye Hai Gadi’ he provides some Hyderabadi accend is ‘Ek Rupiya Bhada Pesinjar Ekna Jadaa MALAA NAAKO RE NAAKO RE NAAKO’, where as Mehmood speaks the entire dailoges in Hyderabadi.
Coming to your song ‘Khatun ki khidtam’ is a mixture of Urdu and Hyderabadi. There are Hyderabadi conversations in the song which is neither in KK nor Amitabh’s voice.
Whereas Rafi uses his own voice to narrate the Hyderbadi voice in ‘Hum Kale Hain To Kya’ for Mehmood.
Therefore Rafi has an upper hand in terms of language control.
Dear AVI,
I have only one thing to say ” SHUT UP ” and ” GET OUT ” and join KK FORUM and sing KHATUM KI KHIDMAT or whatever MEDIOCRE song you like don’t start your baseless analysis here……….If you are hard finding KK forum let me know in my next reply I will put a link ….All KK Fans will use it and it will be totally free of cost…………And AVI stop posting continous replies you sound cheap………bring some useful information dont repeat yourself and repeat KK songs.
Do this favour on ALL RAFIANS.
Regards
Sagar
Dear Sungma,
I am fed up of reading Rafi’s voice suits all generation.
As you know Rafi sang from Dilip Kumar to Rishi Kapoor, Kishore also sang from Dilip Kimar to Govinda.
Govinda is half of his age as Rishi kapoor was half of Rafi’s age.
Please do analysis first and then write.
In one INterview Manna Dey said Mukesh was besura in many songs and he appreciated Rafi and Kishore which shows Kishore was no doubt better than Mukesh.
There is only one competition with Kishore is, only Kishore.
Rafi came in the picture because after Saigal he was the most popular singer till 69 and that’s why Kishore get compared with rafi or vice versa.
Dear Vicky,
I can say 100 times that Khatun ki khidtam is better than Hun kaale hai to kya hua dilwale hai.
Please listen the way Rafi tryies to imitate word “Hai”— (HAIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNN). I don’t like it. I know this song is picturised in 2 film, one on mehmood n other on Jr. mehmood. Hope i answered ur question.
Nodoubt rafi’s song “mere Desh premiyon” is best in “DeshPremi” film but there are many film which i can list where Kishore’s song was better than Rafi.
MR. Flora,
Thanks to your reply! kya yeh possible hai that Main aapko dvd(eros entertainment)ki price send kar doon with postal charges & aap mere liye dvd kharid kar (Pyar ka mausam-with English subtitle) mere postal address par send kar dein?
Infect I’m from small city & dvd version yahan available nahin hai…. though I have great collection of old Indian movies & nashir hussain sahab mere favorite director hain or shayad aap bhi mere choice se ittefaq rakhte honge.
Tumsa nahin dekha (1957)—m ukharji sahab ke liye unhone film direct ki thi.
Dil deke dekho (1959)- Usha Khanna ,Asha parekh, rajendran ath ki first film .
Jab pyar kisi se hota hai (1961)
Phir wohi dil laya hoon (1963)
Teesri manzil (1966) Goldi sahab ne film direct ki thi jo one of great director they. O mere sona re song copy hai (filmankan)Tumsa nahin dekha ke song Dekho kasam se (Asha/rafi duet) Shammi sahab or Amita ji par filmaya gaya tha.
Baharon ke sapne (1967) ….. mujhe lagta hai is film se unka nam jod diya gaya tha.
Pyar ka mausam (1969) Nishultana re song copy hai (filmankan )Dil deke dekho ke song Bade hai dil ke kale (Asha/Rafi duet) ka.
Carwan (1971)…last film of ASHA ji with hussain sahab. Start from dil deke dekho(1959).
Yadon ki barat(1973)
Hu kisi se kam nahin (1977)
Jamane ko dikhana hai (1982)
Jabardast (1984)
Manzil manzil (1985)
Qayamat se qayamat tak (1989) directed by his son mansoor khan.
Jo jeeta wohi sikandar (1992) & bath se or hain…..
Dear friends in Mumbai,
A tribute!
Strength of Good: Mumbai – a city fights back
Good News Blog
http://www.goodnewsblog.com
Ed.: the following is a comment by a site user reflecting the strong spirit of the people of Mumbai.
‘Yeh Hai Mumbai Meri Jaan’ (This is Mumbai my life) were the words of legendary singer Rafi in those early days about a half a century ago. Yes life in India’s economic capital was difficult, but ahhh … did it matter ? Certainly not! Until 26th July 2005
This just seemed to be the beginning of misery for the Indian Megapolis, on that terrible tuesday, Mumbai was turned into a pothole by 37 inches of rains that devasted the city., killing thousands and thousands of people and destroying infrastructure to the maximum.
This was followed by the Bombay High Blaze, which emblazened the ONGC Oil Rig with 385 people onboard in which 11 people lost their lives, againt to be followed the False Tsunami Alarm and the resultant stampede, which killed another bunch of innocent people.This wasn’t enough, that Mumbai got another setback when leptospirosis broke out after the flood water subsided
But the city lived, it is said that the life in Mumbai travels faster than light. Nothing could be more true and none could have been a better proof than me.
Sometimes it becomes difficult to comprehend is it heartless, selfish or commercial? Or is Mumbai a city of heart warming stories where men end up as millionaires ?
Yes, Mumbai is commercial. It provides the bulk of government taxes. But it has given shape to the dreams of millions of Indians.
Mumbai was paralysed when 8 bombs exploded that exploded in day before yesterday. Hundreds were killed and people panicked. But the next morning, trains and buses were packed as usual as people went to work. “We will not allow the militants to disturb our lives†was the general reaction.
A short quote on the spirit of Mumbai;
Maithilee Kamat, a young doctor, was driving back home to Prabhadevi from Andheri when her car stalled at Vile Parle. With the rain beating down in sheets, Kamat was uncertain of what to do next when a young slum dweller offered to push her car.
With the fast-rising water level, it proved an impossible task. Fearing for her laptop and medical equipment on the back seat, Kamat accepted the man’s offer to be escorted to a nearby transit camp.
The family in the first house at the camp not only provided her shelter in their 10 X 10 room but also offered dinner. When Kamat refused – “There was so little for even them, I couldn’t possibly acceptâ€â€”one of the lady’s sons went to the nearby store and bought her a packet of wafers. It was a long night. Finally, around 5.30 am, she left the house, leaving her laptop and other belongings behind. One of the sons offered to keep her car keys and organise a towing van to drop it at Prabhadevi.
By 8 pm that night, when the rain had subsided, Kamat’s car was already back at her residence. The young slum dweller and his friends had organised a mechanic to repair a flat tyre and then driven it to her house.
Time and again Mumbai has been a target, either of terrorist attacks or of Nature’s fury, but guess what ? We have lived it
Innocent people were killed, there was destruction everywhere, but guess what ? We have lived it.
There have been attempts to cause communal disharmony, pani and fear, but guess what ? We still lived it.
During the blast day before yesterday, I was at Mahim for a Seminar, but for some reasons its for cancelled and I was at Mahim station at 3 (Yes the same station the bomb exploded) but owing to a strong backache I decided to take a cab and reached home at 4.30. I just lay on my Sofa and fell asleep only to be awaken abt 1 and a half hour later by my mom asking about my whereabouts. It was then I came to know of the blast, the though itself badly shook me.Later some friends called me and we went to donate blood and what I saw touched me to the core.
A recent survey adjudged Mumbai as the most rude city? Who said it ? Let me get that Bugger … Does Dropping 5 books on a floor in a mall and no one coming forward to help you pick them up make Mumbai a rude city ? NO ….Can these be the sole standards where the nature of the city can be decided? NO …Is this of any importance ?? Hell no!
When you’re a 16 yr old young girl with clothes torn owing to the blast and a stranger comes and offers you his shirt and drops you at a nearby health camp! That’s Important!!!!!
When you’re a 60 yr old man,badly shaken and with no clue and a stranger with a cellphone in hand comes to you and offers to help you contact your family and also drops you home smile.gif That’s important !!!!
When you’re returning from a long day at work and just wanna get home and get some hot food along a steaming cup of tea to rejuvenate yourselves but get targetted by these anti-social incidents, still find nearby stranger residents rushing towards you with first aid, hot Vada Pavs (Yes the Indian Burgers) and Tea, that’s important!!!!!!
Fathom this: Within 3 hours of the blasts, long queues of blood donating volunteers were seen outside various hospitals, where most of the injured were admitted. By 12 midnight, the hospital had to issue a notification that blood banks were full and they didn’t require any more blood. The next day, attendance at schools and office was close to 100%, trains & buses were
packed to the brim, and the crowds were back. The city has simply dusted itself off and moved one – perhaps with greater
vigour.
The attitude of many people today is cynicism, hardly are we spreading cheer.
Spread the news that the world is a nice place to live in… And Mumbai — I salute you for leading the way!
“Ae dil hai Jeena Muskhil yahaan, zara Hatke zara Bachke. Yeh hai Mumbai meri Jaanâ€
by Ab’h’ishek Tripathi.
Hi Floraji,
Before you go out, just some comments from other sites on the same subject. But let us move forward, please. Some of the comments are similar to what Anmol Singhji reflects what we infer from Filmfare awards etc. Site is S.Bharti.
Rafi and Kishore : Whose better
There are 2 words – Great and Popular. The sysnonym for the first is Rafisaab and for the second is Kishore. I never understand how can Rafi and Kishore be compared. The first reason can be the period those 2 worked. As Kishore came later and became popular due the different kind of songs he sung than Rafisaab.
These 2 can be compared on few points:
Versatility: When Rafisaab sung for some actor, it never appeared that Rafi is singing, but the actor is. And there was no limit on who the acotr is. Few classic examples are Shammi, Rajender Kumar, Johny Walker, Dilipsaab, Dev, Amitabh. But when KK sung even for Rajesh Khanna, the voice always sounded as Kishore’s.
Type of songs: Rafisaab had no limits of what kind of song he could sing.
Range of voice: Rafisaab had definitely better.
When Rafisaab sung, it always sounded like he’s singing from heart while in case of Kishore it was just throatal. Try singing any song by these and you’d feel the difference.
Clarity: Each word in a Rafi song is crystal-clear.
As long as only singing is concerned Mukesh or Manna Dey were better option to compare with Rafi. We listen Kishore Kumar’s song , while we feel Rafi’s song by heart.Rafi was a playback singer for Shammi Kapoor, Dilip Kumar to Rajesh Khanna, Bachhan, while Kishore Kumar was mainly a singer for Bachhan and Rajesh Khanna. Rafi is for all generation while Kishore Kumar is mainly for young generation. Rafi’s voice was more sweeter than Kishore. Kishore came in 50s, so more or less they were contemporary, but he had to wait for RD to come. No doubt that Kishore Kumar was a great singer and we enjoy lot of his songs. But we simply can not compare him with Rafi.
Rafi is Rafi !!!!!!!!
Please click on the following link and hear a KLSaigal/Rafi duet-if you call it a duet because Rafi sings in the chorus and the last two lines!. Fill in SEARCH mohd.rafi in ALL in ALL if the link doesn’t open up. Film Shahjahan and the song “Mere Sapnon Ki Rani”
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/s?q=mohd.%20rafi&i=17&f=&s=&o=100
Hi Shankar,
Thank you for your analysis and -as a way of going forward to better aspects of the two masters- I would accept your above A and B analogy. Rafi/ KK combination is the most successful male duet singers of all time. They have sung together for Madan Mohan, SJ, OP Nayyar, Rajesh Roshan, Bappi Lahiri,LP,SDB,RDB and others. Who are the others? Anyone know?
Hi Vikram,
I will surely send you the song when I get hold of the video and record the song from the video in mp3 format-most probably by the end of the month.
Thanks again for your information on the sad version of “Tum Bin” by RAfi.
hi rafi fans,
i agree that we’re not going forward. but this is mainly due to people like anonymous, unknow, ali baluch, asif etc. who are bent upon degrading kk. rafi is probably a technically accomplished singer but kk is as talented as rafi, and as versatile. if u can accept this fact, we can move forward. but most rafi fans seem to not accept this fact.
in the link to manna dey’s interview i posted above (http://www.dailypioneer.com/columnist1.asp?main_variable=Columnist&file_name=mitra55.txt&writer=MITRA&validit=yes) , manna dey was NOT asked “who was the greatest singer ?”. he was asked “who was the most TALENTED singer ?”. there is a difference between the two questions which most people here are failing to grasp.
greatness comes out of talent + direction. talent is something which is inherent and basic. rafi is a polished diamond while kk is an unpolished diamond. that’s the one and only difference.
let me give you an example, a very valid one.
there are 2 students A, B. both are EQUALLY intelligent. But, A, through proper coaching and riyaaz get’s through IIT and becomes a great engineer. Student B doesn’t take coaching and can’t get through IIT and becomes successful in just another regional college. he’s successful but not as great an engineer as A.
if the question is asked “who is GREATER, A or B ?”, the answer is “A”.
but, if the question is asked “who is more intelligent, A or B ?”, the answer is not clear. this is because both are equally intelligent.
so, in our comparision, A is rafi, and B is kk.
Dear Avi are u sure that songs’khatun ki kidmat mein’ is better than hum kaale hain toh kya hua dilwale’ ?!!!!Do u know hum kaale hain toh kya hua dilwale used in two films?
thanks Anmol Singh for great job.
Avi: You bias towards KK defies logic and rationality. You are absolutely blinded by your loyality to KK that you cannot see how super Rafi was when compared to KK. Imagine KK singing ” Oh Dunya Ke Rakhwale”, can you please be honest, how will that sound out of KK’s mouth. Can you imagine KK singing that song? He will truely make the audience laugh, and that is fine, because KK was a comedian.
dear avi,
wud u pls listen to these songs’khatun ki kidmat mein’ n ‘hum kaale hain toh kya hua dilwale’ again pls for my sake n pls dont b biased n to tell u the truth , the song ‘khatun ki kidmat mein’ was picturised on amitabh n not mehmood so y wud kishore imitate mehmood for this song??also the best song of this film was ‘deshpremiyon’ sung by immortal rafisaab n i thnk the song ‘hum kaale’ was the best song of mehmood’s career, strange, u trying to belittle rafisaab on somethng as silly as this!!
now abt manna dey saab i thnk he himself is confused who was better rafi or kk? mayb to keep evry1 happy he is switching his statements!! reading his interview given to chandan mitra (the only interview whr he has considered tht kishore is better than rafi) is published in kolkatta so he cud not have said tht rafi is better than kk(wont hurt the sentiiments of bengali ppl)!!
n Mohanflora thanks for all those wonderful excerpts of manna dey saab spking abt rafisaab. thnks again!!