Did R.D.Burman really preferred KK over Rafi?
This article is written by Mr.H.V.Guru Murthy.
A regular browser to web site mohdrafi.com, having gone through the letters of Rafi lovers would assume that R D Burman did not utilize Rafi properly, instead he preferred Kishore Kumar. Because of this reason, Rafi Fans are still upset with RDB even though he passed away a decade back.
Yes, it is true that RDB preferred KK over Rafi during early seventies. For that matter, which Music Director or Actor or Producer or Director will not have his preference. It was well known that Raj Kapoor always preferred Mukesh, Manoj Kumar preferred Mukesh or Mahendra Kapoor, B.R.Chopra films had Mahendra, MD Ravi also had plenty of songs with Mahendra so also O.P after he broke with Rafi. Similarly OP always had either Asha or Geetha Dutt and never Lata. Salil also used all other Singers. Director Subba Rao insisted on Mukesh for SAATHI even though the hero was Rajendra Kumar and MD Naushad, two Rafi Fans. Even Kalyanji Anandji had many films with Mahendra Kapoor, Mukesh and KK even though Rafi was instrumental in their raise through JAB JAB PHOOL KHILE, AAMNE SAAMNE, etc. LP, by all means Rafi Bhakts, used KK regularly in the early seventies even for Rafi heroes like Jeetendra, Dharmendra, etc. SJ also switched over to KK in movies like MAIN SUNDAR HOON, DIL DAULAT DUNIYA, KAL AAJ AUR KAL, etc. Of course, the music standard came down a notch or two in that period. But, well, it is their prerogative to have whomsoever they wanted though I am sure in heart of heart, why even openly, they would have admitted the superiority of Rafi over all other Singers. Similarly, RDB also used KK for almost all his movies in the early seventies as perhaps he had some special chemistry with him.
However, let us not forget that RDB used Rafi extensively during late sixties as his main playback singer right from the first movie. He gave hit music with Rafi in TEESRI MANZIL, NAQLI NAWAAB, CARAVAN, PYAAR KA MAUSAM, THE TRAIN, ABHILASHA, ADHIKAR, RATON KA RAAJA, etc. Later during late seventies he returned to Rafi and gave hits like SHAAN, HUM KISISE KUM NAHIN, ABDULLAH, ZAMANE KO DIKHANA HAI, etc. In between, he had Rafi in CHANDI SONA qawali with Mannadey (Ek Shok Hasina Se), YADON KI BAARAT (Title song and who can forget the duet with Asha Chura Liya Hai Tumne), DIL KA BAADSHAH (this Raj Kumar starrer had all songs by Rafi), THE GREAT GAMBLER (Raftasa Mera Naam), SHEHZADA (Solo Tere Attaroo and duet with Lata Kaahe Ko Bulaya), etc.
If a person cannot appreciate the greatness of Rafi, then it can be safely concluded that the person does not have a sense of music. Of course, RDB was a good MD though not a great MD like Naushad, Madan Mohan, OP Nayyar, SDB, etc. RD would have definitely known the great qualities of Rafi, the Singer. Just because he did not use Rafi extensively as one would expect, let us not degrade this MD who gave us some good songs in CHANDAN KA PALNA, PADOSAN, HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA, MERE JEEVAN SAATHI, AJNABEE, AMAR PREM, SANAM TERI KASAM, BHOOT BANGLA, BAHARON KE SAPNE (Rafi solo Zamane Ne Maare), PARICHAY, KINAARA, APNA DESH, ZAHREELA INSAAN, RAMPUR KA LAKSHAMAN (Pyaar Ka Samay with Lata, KK and Rafi), 1942 – A LOVE STORY, KATI PATANG to certain extent, etc. though he gave some very mediocre music in films like DEEWAR, SHOLAY, KITAAB, ZAKHMEE, RAFOO CHAKKAR, NAMKEEN, DHARAM KARAM and BIWI O BIWI (so un-RK film like), etc. so many forgettable movies as for as music was concerned.
The irony of RDB was either he gave good music or petered out to a very mediocre music in so many films. I read some where that Shashi Kapoor called RD as National Anthem Music Director. In those days, theatres used to play National Anthem at the end of the movie and the Hall doors used to be shut till the completion of the Anthem. As soon as the Anthem used to commence, our in-disciplined people used to rush to the Hall Door and wait for the door opening. Similarly, whenever RDB songs commenced in most of the movies, people used to rush to toilet.
Still, it is not fair that we use harsh and sometimes, un-parliamentary language against any body if they differ with our views. We cannot forget the contribution of all these MDs, Heroes, Singers, Directors, etc. in making the Indian Film Music so rich.
You mean to say that,had RD been using Rafi Saab instead of kishore kumar , he would have been considered as a greate music director .HA HA HA.I really pity you people.You cannot fathom somebody’s depth and as a result you mark him as mediocre etc.From your statements I can guess the reason for your grudge.You wished Rafiasaab to be extensively used BY RD.Isn’t it???? Because every singer wanted to work with RD.Because RD was the only Music director who could bring out the best from any singer/musician.The films in which RD used Rafisaab you consider those as good musical films!!!!!!!The cult movies in which he extensively used Kishore Kumar you mark them as mediocre or flop and call him national anthem music director.Carry on guys.But your efforts will not bear fruit.The world has acknowleged RD’s talent and contribution to Film Music.The more you bash him(As it was being done by people like u post mid 80’s) more he will come out as champion even after 14 Years 11 Months of HIS demise.JAI PANCHAM
Dear Rafi Fans,
Anybody having the Rafi solo song “Ae Jaane Bahara Roohe Chaman” from Purani Pehchaan (1971) starring Sanjeev Kumar and Tanuja? If so can you please mail to me at hvgurumurthy@yahoo.co.in.
The feeling is mutual, Mykji.
I must confess that I haven’t really gone deep into RDB’s music, I’ve never felt like it, actually. To me, he’s a temperamental artist who prodeced gems when inspired and craps when not (just as Guru Murthy sir explained). And as you’ve said, it all comes down to personal tastes. My ears find ‘ye jo chilman hai…’ sweeter than ‘ye jo mohabbat hain…’, ‘dard-e-dil…..’ sweeter tha ‘bachna ye haseenon….;, ‘koyal bole….’ sweeter than ‘nagma hamara…’ etc., etc. . And I would think it is blasphemous to rate RDB in the same league as his father and other greats of the golden period (including Ravi, Khayyam, Jaidev) or even LP. Speaking of LP (as you know, I have a soft corner for them), I admire the duo for their unfailing belief in the ‘baadshah’ and the sustained above- tolerable quality level despite being as prolific as they were. Their highs (speaking of the ’70s) may not be as towering as RDB’s, but their lows aren’t as glaring, either.
And may I request you to address me simply Anil. ‘Cherian’ and ‘Cherianji’ makes me feel old.
Guru Murthy sir:
LP were very talented and technically very good. The Satyam Sivam Sundaram song ‘bhor bhaye….’ is a technical marvel rivalling any RDB works. The happy-go-lucky feel of their songs is often an illusion. Classic example would be ‘solah baras ki…..’ from Ek dujhe keliye.
I fully agree with Anil Cheriyanji. No doubt RDB was highly talented, but he produced mediocre stuff for a long time due to his obsession with KK, due to whose limitations, RDB could not allow his talent to blossom. But when he was in mood and chose his Singers properly, he gave memorable hits like Caravan, HKKN, Pyaar Ka Mausam, etc. Even for non-Rafi films like Mere Jeevan Sathi, Aandhi, etc. he gave good music. But his score in movies like Sholay, Deewar, etc. were very mediocre. As he himself confessed, he gave 23 flops in a row. Perhaps, LP were not that talented as RDB, but they were more successful because they chose the Singers properly. Whenever one felt LP are sliding, they came out with movies like AAA, Dharmveer, Aasha, Sargam, etc.
Dear Cherian-ji,
Thanks for the response, and I fully respect your views. Everyone has their own likes/dislikes and that’s what makes these discussions very interesting.
In my view, RD’s best overall came from Lata and our Badhsah ‘Saatwan Sur’ Rafi-saab, followed by Kishore and Asha. I have come to this judgement after hearing so many of Pancham’s songs and being a big fan of his music. The songs he gave to Lata and Rafi are beyond the skills of any other singer.
@Mykji:
I stick to my stance of RDB using Rafisahab out of compulsion more than free will. Actually Haldar sir has expressed much of what I wanted to say in his last post in the other thread and there’s nothing much I can add.
However I agree with you that this combo (RDB-Rafisahab) did produce some real crackers before and after ‘the wave’. During the wave, what went from the RDB table to the baadshah was basically the leftovers.
I (like Haldar sir) dislike RDB as much as I like him but for another reason. Off course I am furious with RDB for his ill-treatment of the farishta during that particular phase but one can’t be too critical of him in that respect. He wanted to create something different from the norm and he found in KK the ideal match. I dislike RDB more for those noisy and copied (many times these terms converge) stuff. I’m not blind to all those mighty works of art that he’s created, but personally I feel his mediocre ones outweighs the sublime ones.
Dear Rafi Fans,
For your information, Mr. Salim Ul Haq from Hyderabad has the follwoing website.
http://mohdrafibiography.com/aboutrafi.htm
You can also get a booklet on the same by corresponding with Mr. Haq along with a CD containing very rare and unreleased songs of Rafi Saab.
Binu Nairji,
What happened to the next issue of the magazine. We are eagerly waiting for the same.
monohari singh the assistants to s d burmar, r d burman and also composers in their own right stays in santa cruz west these days. we met him recently. monohari da is very busy these days, taking part in concerts in various parts and playing the musical parts “live” in the music shows – which he played and “imortalised”.
Manohari da has great words for legends : shankar-jaikishan, op nayyar, sdb, rdb, mohammad rafi saaheb and many other musical greats. manohari da has health problems but his zest for music keeps him always in high spirits.
it has been a pleasure to talk to him about indian music greats. we wish him good health and happy times.
binu nair .. rafi foundation, mumbai, cell : 9833 250 701
H.V. Guru Murthy-ji,
You are correct, and in addition to your list, there is another version of “Tum bin jaun kahan” sung by KK as well. So that makes it four versions all-together that most are aware of (2 by Rafi and 2 by KK).
I assume only a few have heard the third version of the song by Rafi.
Mykji,
I have seen Pyaar Ka Mausam. There are three versions of “Tum Bin Jaun Kahan”, first one KK with Guitar, secong Rafi with Guitar and the third one Rafi with Piano. I have not seen any other version in the movie.
Kapil,
Unfortunately I haven’t been able to find those unreleased songs yet but I am sure we will one day. I have sent out a list to some people, and they are on the look out as well.
Can you please look into it as well ?, you’d have more access in India as opposed to me here in Canada.
Btw, someone told me that there is a “third” version of Tum Bin Jaun Kahan by Rafi-saab, it has been released and has a slight variation in notes as opposed to the other two.
Imagine getting a hold of that version !.
Hi myk,
did you get hold on those unreleased Rafi-Rd numbers that you have mentioned in one of your earlier posts? let me know regarding this.
Post 934: Rafi Saheb’s voice remained sweet and fresh till 1980. KK’s was a hoarse voice, there was no sweetness in KKs voice. KK should be thankful to RDB, both being Bengalis, otherwise, KK was nothing comparing with Rafi Saheb.
Ketanji,
A small clarification. RDB was talented no doubt. Let us no forget that he was SDB’s son and had imbibed his musical talent. But where RDB faltered was in the selection of Singers for so many songs and he was not consistent. He could have given consistently good music for his talent but as I admitted by himself, he gave 23 flops in a row. Other greats like Naushad, SDB, OPN, MM, etc, were very consistent almost till the end.
P. Haldar,
a) What were your expectations of the RD-Rafi combo for the 80’s ?.
b) Rafi was an integral part of Pancham’s musical journey, there are no two ways about that. Pancham’s finest albums and songs came through the Golden Voice. He gave all types of songs to Rafi, and even if he gave Kishore songs that should have gone to Rafi (which eventually backfired on him), or he gave his other classical-based gems (besides the ones to Lata) to Bhupinder instead of Rafi (with others going to Rafi) etc., it doesn’t diminish the fact that Rafi sang many of RD’s best songs. In general, Rafi sang many songs for RD, in fact out of all composers from the eastern region, he sang the most for RD, doesn’t that show something ?.
c) Pancham and Rafi-saab used to go to the Bazaar at various times and distribute sweets after recordings. I think their relationship was excellent, going back to the 50’s when Pancham saw Rafi-saab in Dada’s recording room and worked with him then. Also, when Rafi had cut down on his singing for a small period in the 70’s RD went to Rafi’s house to cajole him into singing for him. I don’t think RD had anything against Rafi, as the media creates it out to be. Shakti Samantha also mentioned that they all (including RD) wanted Rafi for Kati Patang, but he was out of town. These are just some examples.
d) Do you have any more inside info on the RD-Rafi combo ?
the article by mr.guru murthy is flawed and makes for amusing reading. for e.g. the music of zakhmee was by bappi lahiri and not RDB.people who say RDB was only a good and not a great music director have not the least sense of music. there is no doubt that naushad, SDB and op nayyar were great but any music lover would also acknowledge the versatility and greatness of RDB.
look, no doubt rafi sahab was the greatest ever but all good things have a shelf life, his voice started losing its sweetness (compare his songs of 60’s and those of the 70’s)and then decide. I admire rafi sahab above anyone else including lata but admire the greatness of KK, manna dey as well. to degrade a director as revered as RDB is not just amusing its downright an insult to music lovers.
KK fans almost used 3 naes with they compare him with Mohd Rafi
1 RD
2 RajeshKhanna
3 AnilBiswas.
1 but they forgot that RD start with Mohd Rafi with his first film and RD best films as hit boz of music boz of MohdRafi and Shammi Kapoor.
2 Rajesh Khanna never been knew with good music in his films as Shammi Kapoor,yesterday there was programm on Shammi Kapoor on his birthday and sad it is to make programm on Shammi Ji boz any song we play that is hit.
Anil Biswas used Mohd Rafi more than KK and Anil Biswas liked Talat Ji more than any singer and Talat Ji said that Mohd Rafi is the best.
I think LP had more better songs with KK than RD
The basic purpose of writing blog 927 to 930 was to show that KK was had hits with many composers apart from Pancham. Most Pancham fans claim that KK and Pancham are made for each other, is totally incorrect.
Pancham had a strong classical base. Therefore when ever is used classically trained singers for his compositions his songs were big hit. Therefore Pancham and Rafi are indeed made for each other. Though Pancham has used Rafi much less and KK, but the results are outstanding.
Plus KK’s use by other composers was far better than Pancham.
Ek ache sangitkar ko ek singer ne ghar par bitha diya. yeh singer ke gaane flop huwe karth the aur yeh singer ke gaane aate hi theatre me log relax hone ke liye bahar chale jaate the.
yeh singer kaun hai… aap bhi jaante hai aur sab duniya bhi jaante hai. mohd rafi saaheb ke gaane se unke gaane ko national award bhi mila, 1977 me.
yeh hai rafi saaheb ka kala jo unbeatable hai. agar mohd rafi ko jaada use karte to shaayad , ghar baithne ki baari nahi aati, is sangitkar ko.
binu nair,
Best of Rajesh Roshan. KK’s success rate is the highest under RR.
1. Aa Ree Aaja Nindia Tu Le Chal – KK (KK’s one the best Sad songs)
2. Saj Rehi Gali Meri Maa – Rafi/Mehmood (RR’s start of association with Rafi)
3. My Heart is beating – P Sagar
4. Dil Kya Kare – KK
5. Ye Raaten Naee Purani – Lata (One of the best composition on Ball dance after SJ)
6. Ye Desh Pardes – KK (One of KK’s best songs)
7. Dil Ki Kali Yun he Sadaa – Rafi (Both the happy and sad versions are great)
8. Thodaa Hai Thode Ki – KK/Lata (Once again KK is too good)
9. Suniye Kahiye…Baatoon Mein Pyar – KK/Asha
10. Kya Mausam Hai – KK/Lata/Rafi (Rafi’s late entry is great)
11. Mujhe Chu Rahee Hai Teri – Rafi/Lata (A great romantic number)
12. Hum Ne To Mangi Hai – Rafi/KK (Great KK/Rafi duet)
13. Mere Paas Aao Mere Doston – Amitabh (One the best song’s sung by Amitabh)
14. Ek Raasta Hai Zindagi – KK/Lata
15. Aankhon Mein Teri Masti Ke Phere – Rafi/Lata
16. Esk Or Mushk Kade Naa Chipde – M Kapoor (A great Punjabi Folk sung by M Kapoor)
17. Aap Ke Diwane Hai – KK/Rafi
18. Chu Kar Mere Mann Ko – KK
19. Tum Se Badkar Duniya – KK/Alka
20. Jabh Koi Baat Bigad Jaye – Kumar S (Kumar Shanu’s all time best song)
Like LP, KA were also equally successful, therefore their 25 best should be considered. They were successfull with almost all singers, but had a special association with Mukesh.
1. Neend Na Mujko Aaye – Hemant/Lata
2. Mujhe Es Raat Ke…Aawaaz Na Do – Mukesh (Best of Mukesh)
3. Mein To Ek Khwab Hun – Mukesh (Best of Mukesh)
4. Mere Desh Ki Dharti – M Kapoor (Best of M Kapoor)
5. Kasme Waade Pyar Wafaa – Manna Dey (Best of Manna Dey)
6. Hai Preet Yahaan Hai Reet – M Kapoor (Best of M Kapoor)
7. Pardesion Se Na Akhiyaan Milaana – Rafi/Lata (KA’s start of association with Rafi)
8. Yehaan Mein Ajnaabi Hun – Rafi (Rafi’s one the best sad songs)
9. Mere Mitwa Mere Meet Re – Rafi/Lata (Both Rafi and Lata are excellent)
10. Chandi Ki Deewar No Todi – Mukesh (Mukesh’s all time best sad song)
11. Yaari Hai Imaan Meri Zindagi – Manna Dey (Manna Dey is excellent)
12. Zindagi Kaa Safar Hai Kaisa – KK (KK’s one the best sad songs)
13. Mera Jiwan Kora Kagaz – KK (The best of KK)
14. Woh The Jinke Sahare – Lata
15. Wada Karle Sajna Tere Bin – Rafi/Lata (One of the best Rafi/Lata duets)
16. Yuhin Tum Mujh Se Baat – Rafi/Lata (One of the best Rafi/Lata duets)
17. Tumne Kabhi Kissi Se – Asha/Mukesh (Possibly Mukesh’s last best under KA)
18. Tumse Door Rah Ke – Rafi/Lata (One of the best Rafi/Lata duets)
19. O Saathi Re Tere Bina – KK (KK is far better the female counter part)
20. Roote Hue Aate Hai Sab – KK (Rafi sings the Sad version)
21. Salaame Eshk Meri Jaan – Lata/KK (KK’s late entry is too Good)
22. Hum Tumhe Chahte Hai Ase – Manhar/Asha
23. Yeh Wada Rahaa Dil Rubaa – Rafi/Asha (Possibly Rafi’s last best under KA)
24. Or Es Dil Mein Kya Rakhaa Hai – S Wadkar/Asha
25. Tera Saath Hai Kitna Pyaara – KK/S Sargam (Possibly KK’s last best under KA)
LP have given so may hits in their career it is extremely difficult to select 20 best of their compositions. Therefore I decided to make it 25 best of LP.
1. Woh Jab Yaad Aaye – Rafi/Lata (LP’s Start of Success)
2. Chahunga Mein Tujhe – Rafi
3. Badi Mastani Hai – Rafi
4. Khilona Jaan Kar Tum To – Rafi (One of the best numbers for mentally challenged characters)
5. Ek Pyar Ka Nagma Hai – Mukesh/Lata
6. Mujhe Meri Mohaabat Kaa – Rafi/Lata
7. Mere Dil Mein Aaj – KK (KK’s one of all time great)
8. Ruk Jaana Nahi – KK (KK’s ultimate Gem)
9. Yeh Jiwan Hai Es Jawan Ka – KK (The use of guitar is ultimate)
10. Sachai Chup Nahi Sakti – KK
11. Gaadi Bula Rahi Hai – KK (One of the best songs of Trains)
12. Achaa To Hum Chalte Hai – Lata/KK (One of the most catchy duets)
13. Aa Jaane Jaa Mera Ye Husn – Lata (Lata’s One of the best item numbers)
14. Akhion Ko Rahne De Akhion Ke – Lata (Lata is excellent in this song)
15. Mein Nahi Bolna Ja – N Chanchal
16. Mein Jat Yamla Pagla Diwana – Rafi
17. Parda Hai Parda Hai – Rafi (Bollywood’s all time best Kawaali)
18. Aadmi Musafir Hai – Rafi/Lata
19. Jab Dard Nahi Tha Seene Mein – KK (KK’s one of the best sad version)
20. Dard e Dil Darde Jigar – Rafi
21. Ek Hasina Thi Ek Dewaana – KK/Asha (KK’s one of the best Hit Pitch song)
22. Zindagi Ki Na Toote Ladi – N Mukesh/Lata
23. Tere Mere Beech Mein Kaisa – Lata (Both the Lata and SPB ver are Great)
24. Lambi Judaai – Reshma
25. Sanj Dhale Gagan Tale – S Wadker
LP were very successfull with many non filmly singers like N Chanchal, Reshma, Manhar, etc. I have not considered many songs of the 80s, except for the last 3. Their use of KK is exceptional.
It is difficult to select Pancham’s 10 best numbers, instead I have considered his 20 best in his entire career span.
1. Aaja Aaja Mein Hun Pyar Tera – Rafi/Asha (Pancham’s start to success)
2. Wadian Mera Daaman – Rafi (Rafi is effortless compared to Lata)
3. Nisul tane Re Pyar Ka Mausam – Rafi/Lata (Nice catchy duet)
4. Churali Hai Tum Ne Jo Dil – Rafi/Asha (Rafi’s late entry scores over Asha)
5. Chingari Koi Bhadke – KK (KK’s all time great)
6. Yeh Shaam Mastaani – KK (The guitar is too good)
7. Jaane Jaa Dundta Phir Rahaa – KK/Asha
8. Beeti Naa Bitaaye Raina – Lata/Bhupindar
9. Es Mod Pe Jaate Hai – Lata/KK (Lata scoures over KK)
10. Suhaani Chandni Raaten – Mukesh (The Piano is excellent)
11. Dil Ki Kaali Mein – Asha/Amitabh (Great Haunting music)
12. Kya Hua Tera Waada – Rafi (Rafi’s one of the best numbers)
13. Hai Agar Dushman – Rafi/Asha (Best Qawwali of all times)
14. Maine Puchaa Chand Se – Rafi
15. Tune O Rangile Kaisa Jundu – Lata (The Haunting Music is fabulous)
16. Mere Naina Sawan Bhaayeo – Lata (Lata is effortless compared to KK)
17. Do Naina Ho Ek Kahaani – Aarti Mukherjee (Great work by Pancham)
18. Chehra Hai Ya Chand Khila – KK (One of KK’s best number)
19. Mera Kuch Saaman Lotaado – Asha (One of Asha’s best number)
20. Ek Ladki Ko Dhekha To – Kumar Shanu (Pancham’s last feat before he leaves us)
Jest take out Mohd Rafi and Lata ji from RD.there be hit songs only for child I mean songs without any meaning..As I think 10 best songs of RD singed by Lata ji and Mohd Rafi 95%,
As said by Anmol Singh Sir
In terms of capability I would place RDB on par with his contemporiries, i.e. LP, KA, RR, etc. In terms of success he is way behind his collegues. There are many reasons behind this. First the selection of subject of music, where SDB was very particular. Second is the choice of singers for a particular number, where again SBD hardly made any mistake. As a result RBD faced many setbacks in every era parhaps in the mid 70s also, when many of his loyalists like Dev Anand and Shakti Samant switched to other MDs. Of course Rafi was there till 1980 to save him. Imagine Rafi refusing to sing for RDB in the late 70s, RBD’s end could have come much earlier. A person like of course Rafi would never do such a thing. After Rafi’s death RDB’s success factor changed drastically. From 1983 if one observes carefully, for every one hit there were 20 flops that followed.
1983 – Masoom
1985 – Saagar
1987 – Ijazzt
1989 – Parinda
1994 – 1942 love story.
Among most music composers RDB was the biggest loser after Rafi’s death in 1980.
Harvinderji:
RDB is not to be bracketed along with Copyda. He’s better than that, after all he’s given HFM some it’s best-known songs (to go along with some real mediocre stuff). And rest assured this is from someone who’s not a big-time RDB fan. Personally I’d rate him above all the MDs who appeared in the scene after him but below everyone who came before him (including less famous MDs like Khayyam, Jaidev and Ravindra Jain).
Pranab post 921.
Nobody disputes RDB as a good MD, at best above average. He can not be expected to be mentioned alongside greats such as his own father, SJ, MM, OPN and Naushad.
We must consider the fact that during his genre, he was the only MD with father’s name and blessings. He became an independent MD at a very young age – courtsey headstart that he got. LP and others had to rise from the bottom. It is also believed that SDB’s failing health also ensured that his father’s work fell in his lap. He is definately credited with the change in style of hindi music in late 60’s and 70’s- not neccessarily for the better though.
His other great asset is his second wife Asha Bhonsle who is out to cash in on remixes.
I personally feel that it would be disrespectful towards other to rank him besides them. He can be beside KA, Bhappie Lahiri in B+ or just A category.
Rgds
RDB though talented was highly inconsistent. He himsslf admitted that he had 23 flops in a row. The other great MDs like SDB, Naushad, OPN, MM were very consistent in giving good music irrespective of the Singers, the actors, banners, the story line, etc.
why you said the line : – Of course, RDB was a good MD though not a great MD like Naushad, Madan Mohan, OP Nayyar, SDB, etc.
Why you think RDB was not as good as other (you mention later)?
Personally I feel, if you count 20 best songs of RDB, you can find many Rafi numbers in the list. But if you count even 50 best numbers of Rafi (if some body can do it because honestly I feel it is too difficult list out just 50 Rafi best as we need atleast 150 or 200 numbers), RDB’s numbers may not be many in the list.
The other songs that could make it to RD’s Top 20 (in my view):
Raina beeti jaaye – Amar Prem (Lata)
Ae ri pawan – Bemisal (Lata)
Ae dekho to yahan – Raton Ka Raja (Asha)
Aanewala pal – Golmaal (Kishore)
Zindagi ke safar mein – Aap Ki Kasam (Kishore)
Tere bina jiya jaaye – Ghar (Lata)
Katra katra – Ijaazat (Asha)
Mere naina sawan bhadon – Mehbooba (Lata)
Musafir hoon yaaron – Parichay (Kishore)
Yeh shaam mastani – Kati Patang (Kishore)
Hai agar dushman – HKKN (Asha-Rafi)
Na jaa mere humdum – PKM (Lata)
Is mod se jaate hain – Aandhi (Lata-Kishore)
Dil sajan jalta hai – Mukti (Asha)
Kabhi kabhi aisa bhi – Waris (Lata-Rafi)
The list is mosty solo’s, but one can replace some of these solo’s and include duets as well.
Mr. XXX,
Thanks for reminding me about my RD Top 20 list !.
For me, these five songs would definitely make it to the list:
Zamane ne maare jawan kaise kaise – Baharon Ke Sapne
Pyar hai ik nishan qadmon ka – Mukti
Tumhein dekha hai – Chandan Ka Palna
Churaliya hai tumne jo dil ko – YKB
Tumne mujhe dekha – Teesri Manzil
There could be others, but definitly the above five for sure. The rest would be made up of atleast 7 Lata songs, 4 Asha songs, and 4 Kishore songs. I could take out a few songs of Lata, Asha and Kishore and put in one or two more Rafi numbers. How about a song like ‘Rut hai milan ki” (Mela), RD never composed such a duet for Kishore and another duet in this nature, this song could make it to the list too.
“Zulfon ko aap” is full of melody. What is interesting is that RD adpated different styles in this song. He composed it in a style similar to his father, yet incorporated his own things into it. The song has the SD sweetness, along with the RD touch. Check out the use of the violins throughout the song and especially in the second interlude. Take any Kishore-Asha duet of RD and it won’t match this song in melody and sweetness. Rafi imparts special touches into the song as well singing for Dharmendra. This duet can be in the same league as any of SD’s duets for Rafi-Asha, that’s how good this song is. This could also rank as one of RD’s best duets of all-time.
“Nagma hamara” is a beautiful classical-based song. This song shows that had RD given more classical songs to Rafi, they would have flourished. There is excellent use of the sarod and veena in this song, RD being trained in classical music could bring out the best in classical musicians. There is a haunting feel about this composition, Lata and Rafi have sang it very well as usual.
I agree, the melody of these two songs are both very strong. “Churaliya hai” has strong melody too, all three are splendid songs.
Mr. XXX and others, I have posted some things in the SDB-Rafi thread, please visit and post your comments:
http://www.mohdrafi.com/meri-awaaz-suno/sd-burman-and-mohammad-rafi.html#comments
ref to p 910 of mr.myk,
i agree that rafi added totally new dimensions to the rd tunes that you have mentioned, “zulfo ko aap yun na sawara karo” and “nagma hamara” completes the list..
btw, you have not came up with your list of top 20 rd songs! how many rafi numbers would you like to add there? and i would also like to know your take on the above mentioned two duets. how would you rate these duets when compared to rd’s popular ones like “chura liya hai ” and others …
i believe that melody of “zulfo ko aap yun..” and “nagma hamara..” are so strong that even “chura liya hai..” sounds faded before them(strictly my opinion).. what do you say?
“Betaab, Dil Ki Tamanna” ia a classic of Lata, MM and Kaifi Azmi. Especially one should listen to the three antaras, written so beautifully, meaningfully but in simple words. Though the antaras are fairly long, the music and the singing reaches its pinnacle. Listen to the words, “Hanste Hanste Rode Hum, Itna Bhi To Hasaona”, “Ab Jo Aagaye Ho, Aanchal Bhar Chuka Hai, Chalo Kitni Khushi Samayenge”. Wonderrful lyrics in simple words and written so meaningfully. Lataji at her best putting meaning, feeling and pathos into each and every word.
Post-908 mr Anil
Yes I am a south Indian.
Friends the other day I saw in the web the personal details of the 22 selected particpants in the Star voice of India program.All the contestants are between 17-25.When asked about their idol 4 of them choosed Rafi saab.Can you believe it?.Only one guy chose Kishore Kumar.That really surprized me and also brought happiness.Even the young generations are adoring Rafi saab even amidst all the media bias against him(Bias I mean ignoring him and giving prominense to less deserved singers ).
Mr Myk
Yes the song ‘Betab dil ki tamanna’ was a classic. for that matter the whole ‘Hanste zakhm’ was a musical treat.
RDB had more Rafi – Asha duets than Rafi – Lata duets. Infact, Rafi – Asha duets from RDB were too good to listen as in movies like Caravan, Zamane Ko Dikhana Hai, Teesri Manzil, Yadon Ki Baarat, Hum Kisise Kum Nahin, etc. where as Rafi – Lata duets of RDB though were good (Caravan, Shahzada, Chote Nawab, Waris, etc.) still were not in the same class as Rafi – Asha duets as for as RDB music was concerened. Of course, it is my personal opinion.
My earlier statement should read as:
“For example, if a composer composed 5 Lata-Rafi duets, as opposed to another composer who composed 50 Lata-Rafi duets, and those 5 duets were excellent, and of high timeless quality, then those 5 duets from that composer would be as good as (or even better than) all of the 50 duets from the other composer (even if all these 50 duets are excellent, or most are good, or half are good etc.)”.
As I said earlier, it is “quality” that matters and not “quantity”.
For example, if a composer composed 5 Lata-Rafi duets, as opposed to another composer who composed 50 Lata-Rafi duets, and those 5 duets were excellent, and of high timeless quality, then those 5 duets from that composer would be as good as (or even better than) all of the 50 from the other composer.
I hope you all get my point.
Mr. XXX,
I have emailed you on your “gmail” address, please check asap.
I was just listening to Lata’s “Betaab Dil Ki Tamanna” composed by Madan Mohan, what an outstanding song, from all aspects, and the tune is just heavenly and haunting. This is one of the best Lata songs from the 70’s imo, MM shows his class yet again with such a magnificent composition.
Compare RD’s Aandhi tunes to this one song from the genius MM, and this one song beats out the whole Aandhi album. If Rafi had sung the songs of Aandhi, they would have been on even terms, its only Lata who is the saving grace of Aandhi, and she adds glory and respect to those RD tunes. The presence of Kishore in Aandhi lowers the quality of the album.
Madan Mohan definitely preferred Rafi and Lata to all other singers, but my question is why did he create less Lata-Rafi songs as opposed to LP, SJ or KA etc. ?. Ofcourse it doesn’t matter if he did, as it doesn’t take anything away from his repertoire or status, but I am just curious. Each one of those Lata-Rafi songs he created is a gem regardless of how many songs he has made for the golden pair. Even SDB doesn’t have as many Lata-Rafi duets but each one is a gem, and same is the case with Roshan, Ravi etc. I think LP, SJ and KA created the most Lata-Rafi duets in that order, followed by Chitragupt, Naushad and others. Ofcourse “quality” matters and not “quantity”.
Most composers from H-B to Bappi Lahiri created duets for the golden pair. Anyone who created duets for Lata-Rafi were very lucky to have them sing for them. Lata-Rafi is the best duet pair in the history of HFM, and they were the two best singers in the history of HFM. I bet all composers wanted this duet pair to sing for them.
Now coming to Pancham, since this is a thread devoted to him, he created less Lata-Rafi duets than the three duo’s, but more than SDB, MM, Roshan etc. and all of them (imo) were gems.
Friends,
Has RD given these sort of versatile tunes to Kishore or any other male singer he worked with ?. I don’t think so, but I’ll let you decide for yourself.
I’ll just list a sample:
Rut hai milan ki – Mela
Door se tera diwana – Raton Ka Raja
Chand mera dil – Hum kisise kum nahin
Pyar hai ik nishan qadmon ka – Mukti
Ni sultana re – Pyar Ka Mausam
Wadiyan mera daman – Abhilasha
Tumne mujhe dekha – Teesri Manzil
Zamane ne maare – Baharon Ke Sapne
Kabhi kabhi aisa bhi – Waris
Churaliya hai tumne – Yaadon Ki Baarat
Kitna pyaara waada – Caravan
Pal do pal ka saath hamara – The Burning Train
Mohabbat mein aji kya – Phandebaaz
Gulabi aankhen – The Train
Tumhein dekha hai – Chandan Ka Palna
Most of RD’s Kishore tunes were straight with little variations. There are exceptions here and there, but in general they were in a similar category. Even the songs that had more scope for melody, were destroyed by Kishore’s lack of ability. Had Rafi sang these songs, the melody would have been out of this world.
It’s Rafi who brought melody and charm to RD’s songs. RD’s Rafi tunes were better, more versatile, and definitely more melodious. RD knew Rafi’s capabilities which is why he gave him such everlasting tunes. Also, these tunes were melodious by themselves, but Rafi raised them to a whole new level of melody (he made them more melodious) just by his rendition.
A drawback that RD had as a composer was his inability to choose the right singer for a particular song, something his father SD specialized in. Other than that, he was an all-round genius composer, who could compose anything and everything.
Thanks for your posts, H.V. Guru Murthy-ji, Rafian1-ji, and Anil Cherian-ji.
Rafian1-ji, I am definitely not furious to/with Sanjay-ji. I was just asking Rafi fans an interesting question, and I wanted to know various opinions from them. Mr. Sanjay thought this was not the right place to ask such a question, and I disagreed. Since this is a thread devoted to Pancham-Rafi, I think its a valid place to ask such questions.
I agree with you, that KK/RDB fanatics have no manners, they treat other MD/singer fans with disrespect, and most of them lack musical knowledge, as can be seen in examples on this site and on the KK site as well.
Mr.Rafian1, I believe your musical tastes are pretty much similar to mine… if I were asked to list out my top 20 RDB songs, it’s probably a copy of yours… And You selected 5 Rafisahab songs in the listing (I had also said 4-5 in my post). Could you tell me if you are a South Indian?
Illyaraja (though technically excellent), to me, is not in the same league as the MDs of the HFM golden period… however he’s ahead of RDB on various parameters, consistency is one of the major ones… And this comes from a South Indian who’s listened to a lot of Raja songs in various languages.
Anyway, neither of the two are my big-time favourites. In the South I’d anyday prefer the great Malayalam composers of the ’60s (esp. later part of it) and ’70s (the golden period of Malayalam film music). I’d mention some names for those who are not familiar- Devarajan (Many of the MDs like Illyaraja started out under him), Baburaj, Dakhshinamoorthy, Raghavan, M.B.Srinivas, Arjunan. And then there was Salilda with his unique music (some of them original compositions for Malayalam).
mr Myk ji.Don’t be furious to Sanjay ji.The way KK/RDB fanatics treats fans of other Singers/MDs is as bad as anything.That is why he wrote like that.
My Top-20 songs of RDB.
Mere naina sawan(Lata)
Zindagi ke safar mein(Kishore)
Aanewala pal(Kishore)
Naja mere humdum(Lata)
Zamane ne mare(Rafi)
Wadiyaam mera daman(Rafi)
Oh mere dil ke chain(Kishore)
Suhani chandni ratein(Mukesh)
Humein tumse pyar(Kishore)
Musafir hoo mein(Kishore)
Tere bina zindagi se koi(Lata,Kishore)
Tum aagaye ho(Lata,Kishore)
Nagma hamara gayega(Lata,Rafi)
Kya janoo sajan(Lata)
Na koimang hain(Lata)
Agar tum na hote(Lata)
Churaliya hain tumnse(Asha,Rafi)
Do lafzom ki hain(Asha)
Tumhe dekha hain(Rafi)
Kuhc na kaho(Kumar Sanu)
Pancham might have been talented but he erred in selecting singers and his choice of singers perhaps restricted him to exhibit his real talent. Also he was highly inconsistent, if one goes thru his entire track record, perhaps he has equal number of hits and flops (music-wise).
Salil was also talented but let us not forget that his quantity (repeat number of films) was not that great to really compare him with others like Naushad, SJ, LP, SDB, MM, etc. Of course he gave music in four languages, Bengali, Hindi, Malayalam and Kannada, but people who have listened in all these languages know that he used to make one tune and use them in all the languages. Of course, it was his prerogative.
Ilaya Raja is definitely a Class MD especially if we listen to his Tamil songs, which are so melodious and soft (not loud) that even a non-Tamilian would like the song.
Of course, the above are again my personal opinion.
Would like to add something about S-J. They were a school of music by themselves and the original trend-setters.
Many MD’s were influenced by them and copied their style. These MD’s all had their own unique styles as well. I will list a few examples (there are other examples as well):
Laxmikant Pyarelal, the legendary duo and two of the best MD’s ever, and fans of S-J, patterned their music on S-J. Laxmikant said in an interview that early on, their music was “50 % SJ, and 50 % LP”, then it became “100 % LP”.
Kalyanji Anandji, another legendary and excellent duo were also fans of S-J. Early on from 1958-1965, their music had strong shades of S-J in it.
Usha Khanna’s selected music in the 60’s had some shades of S-J in it as well.
SDB aped S-J’s style in Ziddi and Kaise Kahoon.
A few early RDB films had some shades of S-J in it too.
Dattaram, S-J’s assistant, also aped S-J’s style in some of his films.
There was S-J’s influence in two of Ravi’s albums as well, China Town and PKTDK.
Check out the awesome 70’s chartbuster “Tum jo mil gaye ho” (Hanste Zakhm), from the genius Madan Mohan, its S-J all the way. How about “Yehi hai tamanna” (Aap Ki Parchaaiyan) which is in S-J style as well.
Salil Chowdhury’s use of the accordion and violins or unorthodox music reminded one of S-J even though it was Salil all the way.
Rajesh Roshan’s unique style of percussion and violins was vintage RR, but S-J brought this type of style years back. Check out the violins in the antara of “Dil kya kare†(Julie), S-J did that in the interludes of “Mere tumhare beech mein” (Jhuk Gaya Aasman), and “Sabhi kuch hai tujhse” (Pyar Mohabbat).
IR is definitely not in the league of Naushad, S-J, SDB, MM, Roshan, RDB etc. however he is a great MD in his own right.
Thanks to those that answered my question as to how many Rafi songs would make it to RD’s Top 20 and Top 5 all-time best songs. I will post my choices soon.
Ofcourse the real great MD’s are the likes of S-J, MM, Roshan, SDB, Naushad etc., and even though Naushad mentioned those great things about IR, it doesn’t mean IR is in the league of the above mentioned MD’s.
Many a times, praise for another artist from other artists show how good that particular artist is, but it doesn’t mean that the particular artist is the best, it just means they’re good. Praise could however mean a particular artist is the best, but one has to look at it from a smart point of view. For example, if someone says KK is the best, its praise, but it doesn’t mean he is the best, because Rafi is the best, far greater than Kishore. On the other hand if someone says Rafi and Lata are the best, it makes sense, and any knowledgeable music fan will tell you the same thing. There lies the difference. So regardless of Naushad’s comment about IR, it doesn’t mean IR is the best, it just means he’s a good MD. Ofcourse not everyone can create raga’s, or write symphonies, but I’m sure th HFM greats could have done just that and more than what IR did, because in my view they were more talented.
The reason why I compared IR to RD is because IR was often referred to as the “RDB of the South”, just like V-S were referred to as the “S-J of the south”. Also the fact that RD and IR were contemporaries.
Anyways, I would rank Pancham among the all-time legendary and great MD’s (up there with S-J, SDB, Naushad, MM, Roshan etc.), as he is one of my favourite composers.
Also, compared to Pancham’s or S-J’s music, IR’s doesn’t have as haunting an atmosphere you associate with S-J and Pancham and MM and others. IR has made many haunting compositions, but the overall atmosphere is not as great as other MD’s. Ofcourse this is just my opinion.