The Rafi-Kishore saga
The following article appeared in The Statesman,Calcutta, on Aug.7 th 2005. It will give more food for thought to the ongoing debate about the Rafi personality and magic – Mohan Flora .
Mohd. Rafi was the greatest playback singer, asserts Ranjan Das Gupta as he pays tribute on the melody kings 25th death anniversary. Rafi was a classically trained singer while Kishore was naturally endowed with excellent resonance. The latter was a versatile genius, singer, music director, actor, writer and director all rolled into one. Both were proficient singers but had separate individual styles.
In the 1950s Rafi literally ruled the roost. He was the most favoured singer for veteran composers like Naushad, S.D. Burman, Shanker Jaikishan, Madan Mohan while Kishore was preferred by S.D. Burman and Salil Choudhury who was playback mainly for Dev Anand and his own films. Rafi on the other hand could balance his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
It is an astonishing fact that O.P. Nayar used Rafi to sing for Kishore Kumar the unforgettable tune Man Mora Bawra in Ragini in 1957. Shanker Jaikishan also had Rafi to sing Ajab Hai Dastan in Shararat in 1958. Says record museum owner Vinod Santhalia, It is simply amazing. Imagine Mohd. Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films Kishore himself acted.
Shanker Jaikishan commented, No doubt Kishore Kumar is a good singer. He sang beautifully for me in Rangoli. But Ajab Hai Dastan was simply not Kishores cup of tea. The mukhdas and antaras required a singer of Rafis range and classical background.
Although Kishore Kumar felt bad about this, he could only marvel at Rafis brilliant rendering of the two songs. Rafi characteristically remarked, No one else except Kishore could sing Dukhi Man Mera in Funtoosh so well.
Salil Choudhury was not favourably inclined towards Rafi at one point of time, but even he was compelled to use Rafi for the unforgettable Tootey Huey Khuabo Nay in Madhumati and Koi Soney Ke Dil Wala in Maya and confess that Rafi was indeed peerless.
It is generally known that Rafi and Kishore went through a bad patch in their relationship. Yet it is also true that both liked and respected each other. S.D. Burman openly admitted to Kishore that the three solos in Guide by Rafi could not be matched by any singer. On Dev Anands special request, he composed the Kishore-Lata super hit duet Gata Rahe Mera Dil for Guide. Similarly, Rafis numbers in Teen Deviyan and the haunting duet with Lata Mangeshkar in Jewel Thief were far superior to the Kishore numbers in these films.
In the late 60s when R.D. Burman composed the melody for Tum Bin Jaaun Kahan in Pyar Ka Mausam, he experimented the same solo with both Rafi and Kishore. True, Kishore sang this number by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. But in the romantic number, Rafi scored over Kishore in melody.
The 60s was also considered Rafis decade though Kishore matured considerably as a singer during this period. The Jungle Mein Mangal number Woh Din Ke Baat Sharan Karo had both Rafi and Kishore together but is somehow not remembered that well. But Shanker Jaikishans Hanste Gate Jahan Se Guzar in Andaz by Rafi quite eclipsed Kishores entire Zindagi Ek Safar in 1971.
Madan Mohan also used both Rafi and Kishore in the song Yu Na Sharma for Parwana in 1972. Kishore sang the happy rendition for hero Navin Nischal. But there was Rafi again to do full justice to the Are Hansnewale, the melancholic aspect of the same song for Amitabh Bachchan.
In the 1970s the Kishore Kumar wave took the Hindi film music by storm and was backed by R.D. Burman. Some critics felt R.D was partial to Kishore and avoided using Rafi. The Rafi Kishore duet Yaadon Ki Barat from the film with the same title in 1973 turned out to be a superhit. But it cannot be categorised either as an exclusive Rafi or a Kishore gem for both sang in perfect harmony.
Subsequently, R.D. Burman opted for Rafi again after four years as no other singer could have rendered so skillfully Chand Mera Dil and Kya Hua in Hum Kisi Se Kum Nahin; that too in a film with many Kishore Kumar superhits like Mil Gaya and Aa Meri Jaan.
When Rafi sang Darde Dil for Laxmikant Pyarelal in Karz in1980 based on a single note, he proved melody was indeed God-gifted to him, remembers upcoming singer Sujan Bose. Kishores Ay Mere Umar Ke and Ek Hasina Thi could not touch that level. The same can be said for Rajesh Roshan’s Yarana where Rafi’s Aare Re Aisa Tarana completely surpassed Kishore’s Sara Zamana and Tere Jaisa.
Mohd. Rafi left for his heavenly abode on 31 July, 25 years ago. Remembers author Nabaran Bhattacharya, The photo of a silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
As Kishore himself said when Jagjit Singh criticised the Rafi gharana, How dare these so-called ghazal singers criticise an icon that Manna Dey, Mukesh and I dare not criticise. Rafi was unique.
Dear Friend Shankar,
Just look at the blogs above and see who is lowering whom. All the KK fans are attempting to lower Rafi. And please control personal comments. OK.
In 70s most of the MDs other than RD preferred KK because of the pressure from producers. Producers need good returns for the money they inverst in films. In 70s in the wake of the spreading hippy culture, Indian film muisc was also moving to that direction. To suit with that muisc-culture, a cheap, low-class voice was needed and KK provided that. When RD with his hippy tunes emerged, KK saw his heydays. Yet, some produces continued with cultured and good-themed films and high quality-music, which needed Rafi, Mukesh, Mahendra Kapoor and the likes. By late 70s this culture faded, KKs stardom also diminished.
Just listen to Rafi’s O Duniya ke Rakhwale live version from the Around the World album, and you will see how unbelievably deep voice Rafi uses to sing this song. Just compare this voice that he uses to one of his very sweet songs like Pukarta Chala Hoon Main, and you it’s hard to even tell that it’s the same person’s voice. That was the beauty of Rafi’s voice, it could sound sweet, sad, happy, and deep etc. depending on what the situation is, who the actor is, and what the genre of the song is. It’s called voice modulation, something that Kishore could never really grasp all his singing career.
You can just ask Manna Dey, Yesudas, SPB, IllyaRaja, Ravi, Lata Mangeshkar, Naushad, Anu Malik, LP, SJ, Anoop Jalota, OP Nayyar, Sonu Nigam, Udit Narayan, Shailendra Singh and a host of other music professionals who they think has been the greatest ever singer and they will all tell you that it has been Mohd Rafi. Guys, this is almost a top-of-the-tops kinda list, and these people really know their music. As compared to this, very very few people in the music industry will say the same about Kishore.
So, even in this music industry category, RAFI IS HELD AS THE GREATEST SINGER BY AN OVERWHELMING MAJORITY. Of course, people have different likes and dislikes, and there are always going to be a few people who will differ, but Rafi comes out at the top by a big margin!! It is the ultimate compliment to be heralded as the greatest ever by people who are themselves are top professionals in the music world.
RealFan,
You sound like a 4-year old the way you have composed your post. The fact that some music directors like RDB, SJ, LP, Ravi, Madan Mohan etc. gave work to Kishore doesn’t mean that Kishore was the best. In fact, all of these MDs, with the possible exception of RDB, have always mentioned Rafi as the GREATEST EVER. Dude, even an average actor like Shahrukh Khan sells like crazy, and the same way an average singer like Kishore has also become successful.
Regarding the voice factor, just listen to even the best songs of Kishore and can still hear that constipation in his voice. He just couldn’t sing effortlessly like Rafi & Lata. As far as Rafi’s voice is concerned, he was blessed with just that perfect voice — deep, manly, yet very melodious and sweet. Rafi could modulate his voice to sound different for different songs and different situations, and if anyone calls his voice feminine, that person doesn’t know what music is. There is a difference between speaking voice & singing voice. If there wasn’t any difference, then Amitabh would have had the best singing voice ever, but Amitabh doesn’t have the best singing voice even though he has such a nice speaking voice. Rafi had the deepest and most divine voice with the most volume and depth. Poor Kishore, on the other hand, always sounded low-class, cheap and loud.
Dear Ali,
The link which i have sent is RDB autobiography only.
Dear Anmol, Good to read and know that KISHORE has done nothing.
RDB, SDb, LP,BAPPi everybody did for KISHORE. KISHORE exist because of them.
Dear Rafi Fans,
I have one question for u. Can u spend a single rupee to someone who is no use for you. You can spend the money for 1 time, 2 time but not many time.
You also means in different way, from ur blog that SDB, RDB and other KISHORE favourable MDs are not upto the mark because KISHORE was prime singer for them except SDB (gave chance to both).
Boss, They have proved themself and gone from this world.
Dear Anmol,
If Taar saptak was limitation for KISHORE then what abt foll. songs.
Just listen last antara from:
1. Jab dard nahi tha sine me tab khakh mazaa tha jeene me
2. Bachna e Hasino …just check the way KISHORE end the songs
Can anyone sung
NA KOI DIL ME SAMAYA ..(AA GALE LAG JA)?
Great mr Anmol Singh ,
Daer Avi please send link in which RD said that KK is better than Mohd Rafi or RD said that KK is the best male singer,What u sent there are no thing jest about RD not Rd speaking,Please check it bebofe 2 sent it.
Excellent! I hope the above will satisfy the the KK fans. Good writing and well researched. Let’s move on to other aspects of the two singers without passing harsh comments.Rather discuss Rafisaab’s vast range, melody and humane nature.
Dear Shankar,
KK was a jack of all trades but master none. Perhaps it took a long
time for him gain recongnition. Films produced in 50s where Historical,
Mythological, Peotic & Patriotic none supported KK mode and body
language. So KK had no choice but to categorize himself in all together
different league. Apart from singing he add to add mimickry also in
between. Mimickry and singing are two different things all together.
Plus he had to picturized the songs on himself and act accordingly in
order to make it look more effective. It would be interesting to know
whether why Kishore didn’t knew classical. Looking at this performance
in ‘Chalti Ka Naam Gaadi’ and many other films it can be clearly said
that classical singing is not his cup of tea neither it supports his body langauge.
Talking about to Rafi & Manna Dey certainly Manna Dev was techinally a
better classical singer as compared to Rafi. But when it came to picturization Manna Dey had no specific actor except for Raj Kapoor to
support him. It would be insteresting to know that Naushad has not
composed a single classical number for Manna Dey. The reason could be
Dilip Kumar gave preference to Rafi for most of this songs. Other
factor was Rafi’s control over voice, language and clearity of thought
at the highest pitch. Manna Dey sang most classical numbers under SJ
and SD. Examples – Films Basaat Bahar, Boot Polish, Taalash, etc.
Coming to back to KK, SD Burman (Dada) possibly was the only MD along
with Dev Anand who supported Kishore. The reason being in the 50s and
60s Dadas most compostions covered the madhya (middle) saptak (musical notes). Most other MDs covered the Taar (High) saptak in there
compositions. Dada transformed KK into a different category using Dev
Anand and KK as an actor using madya saptak. Songs like “Dukhi Mann
Mere”, “Hum Hai Rahe”, “Manaa Janaab Ne”, “Chod Do Anchal”, etc are
examples. But these songs did not give him recongnition as a singer
because of his limited range of operation.
Survival for KK in 60s was even more tough since dependency on Dada was not sufficent. He did compose music for his own film productions. Songs like “Aa Chal he Tujhe”, “Thandi hawa Ye Chandni”, “Jivan Se Naa Haar”, “Koi Hamdam Na Raha”, etc are remarkable compositions by KK himself.
But again if we compare KK with Hemant Kumar as a MD then KK stands no where. Plus KK never gave music for any other production company. But KK sang an excellent number for Hemant “Yo Shaam Kuch Ajeeb”.
KK and Shammi kapoor had lot of similarity in body langauge. But
majority songs for Shammi went to Rafi because he could meet every
possible requirement. Songs like “Ye Dekh Ke Dil Jhuma”, “Ehsaan Tera
Hogaa”, “Dil Ke Jarooke”, “Is Rang Badal Ti”, etc are songs which cover
Mandra (low), Madhya (Middle) & Taar (High) saptak. Taar Saptak is KK’s
limitation. The song “Akele Akele Kahan Ja Rahe Ho” is a terrific
example of switching over from Taar (High) to Mandra (Low) Saptak in one instant.
Late sixties also did not favour KK again, in fact it was KK’s toughest
phase of life. The loss of Madhu Bala. But it was his fighting spirit that kept him going.
As we move ahead there was a change in trend of film making in the late
60s and early 70s compared to the earlier of the 2 decades. It also saw
majority songs being composed with the Madya (middle) Saptak for which
both Dada and RD were masters. Finally after a long wait KK could get
his much awaited recognition as a singer. Songs sang By KK for
Aradhana, Sharmili, Kati Patang, Amar Prem, Gambler, Hera Panaa,
Abhimaan, Aap ki Kasam, Namak Haram, etc. were just mind blowing. This was the period upto 1975. The same year also saw the end of Dada
perhaps a great set back for KK.
RDs range of compostion was again very limited. As stated by Mohanflora
LP used KK is all together differnt way in films like Hati Mere Saathi,
Imtihaan, Daag, Dushman, Piya Ka Ghar, Dost, etc. which acted as a
weapon against RD. Apart from KK LP had Rafi along with them. The
result of which LP went ahead of RD.
During this so called KK dominated period of early seventies also saw
many remarkable contributions from Rafi also. Songs like “Lag Ja Gale
Dil ruba”, “Tum Jo Mil Gaye”, “Nafrat Ki Duniya”, “Aaj Mausam Bada”,
“Mere Mitwa”, “Ye to Chilmaan”, “Etnaa to Yaad Hai”, “Mein Jat Yamla”,
“Katna Payra Wada”, “Jab Bhi Ye Dil Udaas”,etc are all big hits. If one
carefully observes most songs sang by Rafi cover the Madya & Taar
suptak which is KK’s limition. Therefore one cannot really claim early
seventies saw complete dominence of KK.
As we move ahead ahead to late 70s, RD did contribute to KK success,
but also starting favouring Rafi. The result was “Kya Hua Tera Wada” a
come back for Rafi. LP starting giving more songs to Rafi compared to
early seventies but also contributed to KK. Most Amitabh starrer movies
had KK songs few went to Rafi. Late seventies also saw the rise of
Bappi Lahiri who also contributed to KK’s success, “Chalte Chalte”.
Apart from RD & LP Rajesh Roshan made significant contribution to KK’s
success. Songs of Kuwara Baap, Julie, Desh Pardes, Yaraana, Kaala
Pather & Kudaar are some great contributions.
Rafi’s death in 1980 was a great loss for LP. But LP could maintain their position without Rafi and without much contribution from KK. Instead they used many other singers like Suresh Wadkar, Anwar, Shabbir Kumar, Manhar & Munna Aziz. LP continued to dominate music world till early 90s.
RD continued his success with KK in films like Kudrat, Agar Tum Na
Hote, Shaan, Shakti, Satee Pe Sataa & Saagar in 80s which was much less as compared to 70s. RD did use Anwar, Shabbir Kumar, Shailendra & Bhupindra in his songs apart from KK. The reason was production of third grade films like the Himmitwala, Toofaa series which mostly went to Bappi Lahiri. Bappi’s class was no where as compared to the Burmans and LP. He did give good songs for KK in films like Namak Halal & Sharaabi in 80s otherwise KK sang mostly substandard songs under Bappi.
All good banners went to LP. LP did contribute to KK in Andhaa Kanoon, Avtaar & Desh Premee. LP’s last best contribution to KK was in Mr India. “Zindagi Ki Yahi reet hai, Har ke baat hi jeet hai” which also signifies KK’s own fighting spirit.
1987 also saw the end of KK, a journey with great struggle with
tremendous ability to fight back.
The following saying hold true for KK “Khud Ko Kar Bhuland Etnaa, Ke
Khuda Bande Se Puche, Bol Teri Razaa Kya Hai”.
This is tribute to KK from a Rafi fan.
Dear ALI
For U……….
Please find the link below where RDB says “KISHORE is a Best in Male Singer”.
Pls. read the whole article, it expose many thing abt evergreen legend “KISHORE”
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:oKNdS1ND0f8J:www.panchamonline.com/articles/thatsmytune.pdf+pancham+says+kishore+is+great&hl=en&gl=in&ct=clnk&cd=4
I have read all the blog in this site n few messages posted by few people are rediculous.
Ramesh,
As you don’t care abt what RDB said abt KISHORE (He is great) then we also don’t care abt someone who (Rafi fans) says abt Rafi.
The fact is, U can give Rafi unmatched songs to Manna Dey/Mahendra Kapoor n any trained singer, they will definetely do justice to all songs but give few KISHORE’s songs to them, They will fall sick.
That is the KISHORE.
I am very surprise to read that few Rafi fans have kishore’s cnstipation problem as few KK fans have Rafi’s feminine voice problem.
Ramesh, R u better than RBD, LP, SJ, MADAN MOHAN, othe great MDs who asked KISHORE to sing for their songs.
Don’t put ur childish thought on it.
Dear Ali,
I enjoye both RAFI-Lata and KISHORE-LATA. I can’t defferentiate them.
If i like RAFI- LATA
1. RIMJHIM KE GEET SAAWAN GAAYE
2. MUJHE TERI MOHHABBAT KA
3.PATTA PATTA BUTA BUTA (MOST LIKE)…Many More
I also like KISHORE-LATA
1. Is MOD SE JAATE HAI
2. E MOUSAM AAYA HAI (MOST LIKE)
2. KYA YAHI PYAR HAI …Many More
I enjoyed both from my heart.
I hope i anser ur question.
Thanx
Dear Ramesh,
I don’t think that Man Like RD said that KK is better than mohd Rafi, what the people say that RD who made KK but we all know that RD first film in which he gave music all songs singed by Mohd Rafi,It is one of few films that a singer in all songs.
Hi Anmol,
You make a great point about the amount of effort that Kishore had to put in, and that’s why he sounds constipated in most of his songs, and you can’t help but just hate constipated singing. Kishore’s constipated style was still tolerable, but unfortunately, Kumar Sanu took this constipated style to yet another pathetic level. That effortlessness that Rafi & even Lata have is just not there in Kishore’s singing. Another thing that should be pointed out that even though Kishore sung Mere Naina Saawan Bhado quite well, especially by his own standards, it must be highlighted that he practiced on Lata’s already-sung version for a week before rendering his version. Anybody who thinks about things objectively will know how different it is to do be the first person to do something as compared to copying. Singers like Lata & Rafi didn’t need this kinda extra help like poor Kishore. And this wasn’t the only song for which Kishore needed special help, it was atually quite routine for him.
Regarding the fact whether any singer or MD has ever mentioned Kishore as the best singer, I will say that some people like RD may have done so, but who cares for one or two deviants because the fact remains that an overwhelming majority of people, including masters of the trade like Manna Dey, who are are in the music business regard Rafi as the best ever!!
-Ramesh
Dear Avi or Shankar,
If I ask u that Argentina team will win or Indain Team,U r Answer will be Indian Team because i didn’t asked in football,If I ask in Football?U will say that in cricket Indain team will win.
dear anmol,
i diagree with u. just bcos a singer is more trained and sang difficult songs doesn’t mean he’s better. in that case, manna dey is a better singer than rafi bcos everybody knows that manna dey is the best when it comes to classical songs (songs like “laaga chunari mein daag”, “jhanak jhanak tore baaje payaliya”). but it’s more than that. it’s rafi’s voice and versatility that gave hime the edge.
and this voice and versatility, kk also had. u can argue all u want that rafi’s voice is better. but bcos u r a rafi fan, u’ll say like that. if u ask kk fans, they’ll say kk’s voice is better. rafi’s voice was suited for songs of the ’60’s while kk’s voice was suited for the songs of ’70’s. when people heard kk sing “mere sapnon ki rani” in aradhana, people got blown away with the youth and enthusiasm in his voice. rafi had dominated the ’60’s and they needed a change.
u can take all the classical training u want. i just want u to sing “eena meena dika” or “yeh jawani hai diwani” or “saamne yeh kaun aaya”. u might get the sur and taal perfectly but u cannot generate that energy and enthusiasm in ur voice like kk. that “magic” would be missing. in SA RE GA MA PA programme, one trained singer sang “meri soni, meri tamanna …” from “yaadon ki baarat”. he got the sur and taal right but it still was nothing compared to what kk sang. the judge of that episode said that when u were singing, kk’s voice was ringing in my ears.
kk is a great singer inspite of lack of classical training bcos nobody can generate the energy he has in his voice, and also nobody can sing sad songs like him. nobody can show pain like kk. songs like “kuch tho log kahenge”, “chingari koi bhadke” etc. are unmatched.
i’m not saying kk is greater than rafi. in fact rafi fans are saying rafi is 100 times better than kk, and i’m arguing that it’s not correct.
Dear Avi U r mixing The Question is who is the better Mohd Rafi or KK as SINGER,who said that kk is not talented?!!!yes if we compare him with Mohd Rafi offourse Mohd Rafi is 100’s% more talented than kk as SINGER.
As u said that RD said that KK is better than Mohd Rafi I don’t think so because what people said that KK is made by RD not RD made KK,
Dear Avi or Shankar,
Please give me one name who said that he became famous because of KK?
about Mohd Rafi there are many great names who said that they are famous because of Mohd Rafi.
when Rd and Rajesh Khanna was at top they make kk famous after that Mr Bachchan but Mohd Rafi was alone he was on top as singer.
Daer Avi,
May u please give me website where RD SAID THAT KK IS BETTER SINGER THAN MOHD RAFI??!!There are many who said that KK is good singer and I am one of them but no one can say like that KK is better singer than Mohd Rafi.As Nair said u r Indain are lucky that u have a gift like Mohd Rafi.Lata said that KK was a good singer and same lata said that like Mohd Rafi never born again.
Dear Avi
U didn’t answer some Q from friends I don’t know why?!!Maybe u don’t have answer.Can u answer Mohd Rafi with Lata or KK with Lata better please answer honestly???
Dear Avi,
I did not intend any comparison by mentioning the song from Khwaab (not even with KK). I like the song very much and would like to know other connoisseurs’ approach about that song (probably a wrong blog). I do not think that even SPB and Yesudas with their good shruthi control can sing that particular song as Rafi. I just said that SPB and Yesudas also has sruthi control. Please do not make bizzare interpretations. Well, I must also add that that KK did true justice to the song “mere naina sawan bhadon” in shivaranjini raag. When I heard Kumar sanu and Abijit rendering it, I felt that KK is really versatile – I feel that all Rafi fans agree to this. But does not mean that KK is above Rafi. Rafi is a gift to India.
Dear Unknown and Nair,
Unknown, RD said KISHORE is best, just check at RD forum.
We are not questioning Rafi capabilities, He was great trained singer but is it critria to critice someone who is not trained singer.
Boss there r many trianed singers like Manna Dey, Mahendra Kapoor but why only KISHORE stood against Rafi. He had some divine power n his capability to prove better. I always rate him high because without knowing classical he delivered fantastic song.
U r talking abt KISHORE “Mere naina saawan bhado” n “O manjhi Re”, I feel both r`raag based songs n kishore had done a great justice to both song without having knowledge on CLASSICAL MUSIC. He composedv many great songs without knowing CLASSICAL. That is the reason why i always rate him high.
dear friends, You can find Rafi like (thin) voice everywhere but of course not his talent but Kishore very rare.
Just listen what Ismail Darbar said in “SA RE GA MA PA” on KISHORE when one singer started rendering “EK hasina THI”. He said noone can touch this legends.
I have no issue with Rafi and i always listen him along Mukesh but Kishore i listen more because he touches my heart. The issue here is Rafi fans always try to prove him(KK) worst and they don’t give him respect.
dear Unknown, If one guy is there on the top for 17yrs then he must be really talented n that only made him to exist everywhere.
Good, i m agree with u only deaf who doesn’t have soulful heart can say Rafi is better than KISHORE…
Dear Nair, U r comparing Rafi with SPB n Yesudas 🙂 :), very sad. There is no comparison between Rafi n SPB/Yesudas.
Dear brethren,
I have heard this Rafi song “Tu hi who haseen hai” from Khwaab (1980) composed by Ravindra Jain. This is the most tuneful song I have ever heard. It goes to many pitches……..but the listener can feel the ease with which Rafi sings (and the smile on his face) even when the song floats in the highest pitch. It’s not the question of climbing the pitches, but at a point when he sings “sangemarmar ki moorat ho” after the orchestra, Rafi skillfully starts with a high pitch and makes a beautiful descention to “mein ne dekha tughe to mere dil yehi kehna laga”. All the time, his voice remains in proper control, not even a mild variation in shruthi. I have only seen control in SPB and Yesudas other than in Rafi. In have heard that this is one among the last songs sung by Rafi.
Any comments friends?
Dear Avi and Shankar,Is it mean that KK singed more than Mohd Rafi in 70.s it make kk better singer??!!!when actor like Aamir Khan jest has one or two flims in a year and other have more Is it mean that Aamir khan is workless??!!!
as u said If you remove Kishore songs from RAJESH ROSHAN, BAPPI LAHIRI, SAPAN JAGMOHAN then they are nothing as I think if u come Rajesh Roshan or Roshan Ithink they have better songs with Mohd Rafi than KK,about Bappi Lahiri and Sapan because of kk they are not count with great MD,
Dear Avi
As u said that accept the truth that Rafi ruled in 60’s’ n 70’s n later KISHORE was everywhere.
This history can’t be changed.Answer of that It is not mean that who is in everywhere is the better than other like an actor u see him in most of films it not mean that he is better actor than Mr Bachchan,what about 50’s?!!the history never put KK better singer than Mohd Rafi,If there is a deaf I think he will say that Mohd Rafi is better singer than KK
Please AVI OR SHANKAR GIVE ME ONE NAME as MD or singer Who said that KK better singer than Mohd Rafi
Dear Avi,
I pity you very much. Unfortunately you and most other KK fans do not have the knowledge to understand classical music neither the ability.
When I listened to Rafi singing “O Duniya Ke Rakhwale”, “Mann Tadpat Hari Darshan” & “Madhubhan Mein Radhika”, my disare to learn vocal classical grew. I got an apportunilty in 1997 at Sangeet Mahabharati, Juhu, Mumbai after enrolling in 1993, under Pt Pradeep Chatterjee. Pt P Chatterjee is a thorough perfectionist when it comes to sur and taal. He use fire us left and right if we come unprepared and go off key. I was progressing quiet well but had to discontinue after 2 years, due to my continuous travelling on the job. 2 years of training in classical brought a lot of refiness in my voice. It also brought clarity of thought. But because my training was incomplete I am in no position to sing the above songs even with 5% perfection till date.
But if you ask me to sing any KK song, I can easily follow it without any difficulty. In a gathering given a choice it is earlier to sing a KK song because the chances of going wrong are minimum. That is what most amature singers do in most programmes. That doesn’t mean that KK is a better singer.
Classical music is the basis for comparision of a caliper of a singer or a music composer. Since you are from South India, most singers and music composers in Southern India are classically trained, whether it is Yesudas, S B Balasubramium, Ilyaraja, A R Rehman, etc. Perhaps the reason that most Tamil films are able to produce melody till date.
Lets consider the song sang by KK & Lata (Mere Naina Sawan Bhaayo). KK sang the song very well event at a high pitch. The different between Lata & KK is the KK applies too much force, where as Lata sings with much ease, because Lata is a classically trained singer. Its like comparing Pakistani bowlers Shohib Akhtar with Wasim Akram. Shohib has to run much longer to generate pace, where as Wasim does the same with much shorter run up.
The same can be said for songs ‘O Majhi Re’ & ‘Ek Hasina Thi’. Again very well sang but applying force more then his capability. Infact RD Burman did a lot of experiment with KK but finally could not excel to the class of Rafi or Manna Dey.
Music composers in 50s & 60s were all classically trained. Kishore excelled only under S D Burman, beacuse it gave him simple tunes to sing, where as for classical and high pitch songs he had to turn to Rafi and Manna Dey.
Awards are not the right criteria to compare the capability of any artist. Shah Rukh Khan got more film fare awards compared to Amir Khan though in reality Amir is a far superior actor.
If KK was not a classically trained singer, please do not use this as an excuse to prove that he could have been better than Rafi or he is better is so & so aspects. That why we could compare Rafi with Ustad Bade Gulam Ali Khan, possibly the world would laugh at us. Infact when Manna Dey was asked to sing with Pt Bhimsen Joshi by SJ he went absconding for several days.
Excellent dear Mohan,
Dear Nair and Mohan as dear Shankar and Avi said that Mohd Rafi was workless because I think they want 2 Mohd Rafi sing all songs from 1970 to 1980.
Dear Avi and Shankar,Do u know about film Caravan (1971) one of the best films for RD as MD?RD used Mohd Rafi not KK.
Do u know what Mukesh said Mohd Rafi in 60’s as joke?as Manny day said GIVE US SOME SONGS
Dear Shankar as u said that it also helped that his voice was perfectly suited for rajesh khanna and later amitabh bachchan.
I think u r wrong 100% because if u go for Rajesh knanna jest listen songs in Films Naya Raasta ,Sachaa Jhutha,Aan Milo Sajna,Mehboob Ki Mehandi how can u forget is song “Yeh Jo Chilman Hai”)and for Mr Bachchan Mohd Rafi singed around 16 songs please listen that songs in films Pyar Ki Kahani and Naseeb,
As u said that Mohd Rafi has only two hit films in 70’s but please read Mohan list,What about these films as in mohan list are Sawan Bhadon,Sachaa Jhutha,Pagla Kahin Ka,Naya Raasta,Khilona,Humjoli,Ganwaar,Parwana,The Train,Heer Raanjha,Dastaan,Aan Milo Sajna,Caravan,Paise Ki Gudiya,Laila Majnu and many more???!!!!
Dear Nair,
If you bring all the singers in inida then also KISHORE will stand as tall as he is now.
Boss, Rafi’s workless doesn’t mean that he was not getting work, it means his work quantity was reduced and it was not as same as it was before 69.
If you count no. of songs in each year after 70’s then it would be very less.
Shankar, well said, people are here in music industry to make money and if kishore was so worst, according to RAFI FANS then why MDs preferred KISHORE over Rafi.
If you remove Kishore songs from RAJESH ROSHAN, BAPPI LAHIRI, SAPAN JAGMOHAN then they are nothing
My dear friends pls. accept the truth that Rafi ruled in 60’s’ n 70’s n later KISHORE was everywhere.
This history can’t be changed. It has been frozen already.
I have alredy written that the music business dynamics had changed by the mid seventies. Even producers who favored RDB eg. Devanand and Shakti Samantha moved away from him and went to LP. The latter had always favored Rafi as he suited their music style more. Once they found the chinks in RDB’s armor they made sure that he never found his rythms again.They brought back Rafi in the reckoning and how! When Rafisaab passed away in 1980, the Binaca Geetmala showed that of the top weekly 16, Rafi had 10 and KK 02 at the top.RDB followed the trend and used Rafi more often in the late seventies than he had used him in the early seventies.Music business played a part in Rafisaabs grand comeback. Lp had more films and so Rafi sang more often and so had more hits.Other music directors also followed suit and started using him more and more.Rafisaab saw his chance and brought in another draught of freshness that music at that time was in need of,especially after the monotony that had set in with RDB’s expected beats and rythms.
dear nair, i wonder how a singer who is not even in the first 100 has got opportunity to sing more songs than someone whom u claim is the no. 1 singer.
and u were the person who claimed rafi to be the GREATEST playback singer in the whole of india. if u listen to songs of ghantasala, u will consider rafi to be equal to kk, when compared to ghantasala.
so, if u wish to praise rafi saab, talk about hindi playback singing, not WHOLE of INDIA.
nobody claims he was workless. but the fact remains that kk sang more songs than rafi as far as hindi songs are concerned. and not all the songs were by rd burman. other md’s like LP, KA, rajesh roshan, … also mostly took kk.
if his voice was as bad as u guys think it is, or if his singing was as bad as u guys think it to be, i wonder why all those md’s would bother to take kk. after all, it’s a business and nobody is doing kk any favour by giving him songs to sing. the fact is that the audience found his voice refreshing after the rafi dominated ’60’s, and they needed a change.
it also helped that his voice was perfectly suited for rajesh khanna and later amitabh bachchan.
Dear Shankar, If you bring all the singers of India, then KK will not be even in the first 100.
Excellent!! Good Research. Kudos.
Some friends are trying to mislead us by giving erroneous information by stating that Rafisaab was workless from1970-76.
I don’t know where they get their information from.To put the facts straight, I have this to add. A rough estimate says that Rafisaab sang only 240 songs lesser in the five years after 1970 than from the five year period preceding 1970. For a singer with a repertoire of about 26000 songs that figure is negligible.KK did sing more songs than Rafi during 1971-1976 and it was only at the start of 1977 that the Rafi floodgate opened again.During this period Rafisaab sang for punjabi and other regional language films too. He had a high productivity of non-filmi songs,too.He made regular world tours during this period.The following list of films for which Rafisaab did playback(1970-1976)
will show that he was busy working and not “workless” as our RD/KK centric friends would have us believe. Please check this out!
Fakira (1976) (playback singer)
Jaaneman (1976) (playback singer)
Nagin (1976) (playback singer) (as Mohd. Rafi)
Aadalat (1976) (playback singer)
… aka The Court
… aka The Court of Law (International: English title: informal literal title)
Aradhana (1976) (playback singer)
Bairaag (1976) (playback singer)
Balika Badhu (1976) (playback singer)
Bandalbaaz (1976) (playback singer)
… aka Bundal Baaz (India: Hindi title: alternative transliteration)
Charas (1976) (playback singer)
Daaj (1976) (playback singer)
Kalicharan (1976) (playback singer)
Laila Majnu (1976) (playback singer: “Tere Dar Pe Aaya Hoon”) (as Mohd. Rafi)
Maa (1976) (playback singer)
… aka Mother (International: English title)
Naach Uthe Sansaar (1976) (playback singer)
Santo Banto (1976) (playback singer)
Shankar Dada (1976) (playback singer)
Shaque (1976) (playback singer)
Yamla Jatt (1976) (playback singer)
Mausam (1975) (playback singer) (as Mohd. Rafi)
Zakhmee (1975) (playback singer) (as Mohammed Rafi)
… aka Zakhmee (India: Hindi title: alternative transliteration)
… aka Zakhmi (India: Hindi title: alternative transliteration)
Aandhi (1975) (playback singer) (as Mohd. Rafi)
… aka Storm (International: English title: informal literal title)
Anari (1975) (playback singer)
Chupke Chupke (1975) (playback singer) (as Mohd. Rafi)
Do Jasoos (1975) (playback singer)
Do Jhoot (1975) (playback singer)
Ek Mahal Ho Sapnon Ka (1975) (playback singer)
Geet Gaata Chal (1975) (playback singer)
Kahte Hain Mujhko Raja (1975) (playback singer)
Lafange (1975) (playback singer)
Pratigya (1975) (playback singer: “Main Jat Yamla Pagla”)
Prem Kahani (1975) (playback singer) (as Mohd. Rafi)
Raftaar (1975) (playback singer)
Teri Meri Ik Jindri (1975) (playback singer)
Zinda Dil (1975) (playback singer)
Zorro (1975/II) (playback singer)
Majboor (1974) (playback singer)
Kunwara Baap (1974) (playback singer) (as Mohmd. Rafi)
Benaam (1974) (playback singer) (as Mohd. Rafi)
… aka The Nameless
Dost (1974) (playback singer) (as Mohammed Rafi)
Chor Machaye Shor (1974) (playback singer) (as Mohammed Rafi)
Bhagat Dhanna Jatt (1974) (playback singer)
… aka Devout Dhanna Jatt
Chowkidar (1974) (playback singer)
Do Aankhen (1974) (playback singer)
Dukh Bhanjan Tera Naam (1974) (playback singer)
Geeta Mera Naam (1974) (playback singer)
… aka My Name Is Geeta
Haath Ki Safai (1974) (playback singer)
Hawas (1974) (playback singer) (as Mohammed Rafi)
… aka Lust (International: English title)
Hum Rahi (1974) (playback singer)
Humshakal (1974) (playback singer)
Jurm Aur Sazaa (1974) (playback singer)
… aka Crime and Punishment
Naya Din Nai Raat (1974) (playback singer)
… aka New Day, New Night
Paise Ki Gudiya (1974) (playback singer)
… aka Ghunghat Aur Ghunghroo
Resham Ki Dori (1974) (playback singer)
… aka The Silk Thread
Shandaar (1974) (playback singer)
Thokar (1974) (playback singer)
Ujala Hi Ujala (1974) (playback singer)
Us-Paar (1974) (playback singer)
… aka Across the River
Woh Main Nahin (1974) (playback singer)
Abhimaan (1973) (playback singer: “Teri Bindiya Re”)
Zanjeer (1973) (playback singer) (as Mohd. Rafi)
… aka The Chain
Loafer (1973) (playback singer: “Aaj Mausam Bada Be-Imaan Hai”) (as Mohd. Rafi)
Anokhi Ada (1973) (playback singer) (as Mohd. Rafi)
Barkha Bahar (1973) (playback singer)
Chhalia (1973) (playback singer)
Do Phool (1973) (playback singer)
Ek Nari Do Roop (1973) (playback singer)
Ghulam Begam Badshah (1973) (playback singer)
Hanste Zakhm (1973) (playback singer: “Tum Jo Mil Gaye Ho”)
Heera (1973) (playback singer)
Hindustan Ki Kasam (1973) (playback singer)
… aka An Oath on India
Man Jeete Jag Jeet (1973) (playback singer)
Rani Aur Jaani (1973) (playback singer)
Samjhauta (1973) (playback singer)
Saudagar (1973) (playback singer) (as Mohd. Rafi)
… aka Trader
Yaadon Ki Baaraat (1973) (playback singer)
Roop Tera Mastana (1972) (playback singer) (as Mohammed Rafi)
Piya Ka Ghar (1972) (playback singer) (as Mohd. Rafi)
… aka The Beloved’s Home
… aka The Husband’s House (International: English title)
Anuraag (1972) (playback singer)
Bansi Birju (1972) (playback singer) (as Mohammed Rafi)
Dastaan (1972) (playback singer: “Na Tu Zameen Ke Liye”)
… aka Story
Dharkan (1972) (playback singer)
Do Yaar (1972) (playback singer)
Ek Bar Mooskura Do (1972) (playback singer)
Ek Nazar (1972) (playback singer)
Gaon Hamara Shaher Tumhara (1972) (playback singer)
Garam Masala (1972) (playback singer) (as Mohd. Rafi)
… aka Hot Spices
Gora Aur Kala (1972) (playback singer)
Jangal Mein Mangal (1972) (playback singer) (as Mohd. Rafi)
Jeet (1972) (playback singer)
Koshish (1972) (playback singer) (as Mohammed Rafi)
Lalkaar (1972) (playback singer)
Mom Ki Gudiya (1972) (playback singer)
Sazaa (1972) (playback singer)
Shaadi Ke Baad (1972) (playback singer)
Shehzada (1972) (playback singer) (as Mohammed Rafi)
… aka Shahzada (India: Hindi title: alternative transliteration)
Tangewala (1972) (playback singer)
Preetam (1971) (playback singer) (as Mohd. Rafi)
Pyar Ki Kahani (1971) (playback singer)
Adhikar (1971/I) (playback singer)
… aka A Privilege
… aka Justice (International: English title: informal literal title)
Aap Aye Bahaar Ayee (1971) (playback singer)
Andaz (1971) (playback singer)
… aka The Gesture
Banphool (1971) (playback singer)
… aka Forest Flower
Bikhare Moti (1971) (playback singer)
Caravan (1971) (playback singer)
Chhoti Bahu (1971) (playback singer)
Elaan (1971) (playback singer)
Gambler (1971) (playback singer)
Haathi Mere Saathi (1971) (playback singer) (as Mohamed Rafi)
Johar Mehmood in Hong Kong (1971) (playback singer)
Jwala (1971) (playback singer)
Kathputli (1971) (playback singer)
… aka String Puppet
Lakhon Mein Ek (1971) (playback singer)
Lal Patthar (1971) (playback singer)
Maryada (1971) (playback singer) (as Mohammed Rafi)
Mehboob Ki Mehandi (1971) (playback singer: “Yeh Jo Chilman Hai”)
Mela (1971) (playback singer)
Mera Gaon Mera Desh (1971) (playback singer)
… aka My Village, My Country (International: English title)
Pakeezah (1971) (playback singer) (as Mohammed Rafi)
… aka Pure Heart
… aka Pure One (India: English title)
… aka The Pure
Parwana (1971) (playback singer)
Patanga (1971) (playback singer)
Sanjog (1971) (playback singer)
Seema (1971) (playback singer)
Uphaar (1971) (playback singer)
Woh Din Yaad Karo (1971) (playback singer)
… aka Remember That Day
Aan Milo Sajna (1970) (playback singer) (as Mohammed Rafi)
Bombay Talkie (1970) (playback singer)
Heer Raanjha (1970/I) (playback singer: “Yeh Duniya Yeh Mehfil”)
Maa Aur Mamta (1970) (playback singer)
The Train (1970) (playback singer)
Bhai Bhai (1970) (playback singer)
Darpan (1970) (playback singer)
Dastak (1970) (playback singer: “Tumse Kahoon Ek Baat”)
Devi (1970) (playback singer) (as Mohamed Rafi)
Dharti (1970) (playback singer)
Ehsan (1970) (playback singer)
Ek Nanhi Munni Ladki Thi (1970) (playback singer)
… aka There Was a Young Girl
Ganwaar (1970) (playback singer) (as Mohd. Rafi)
Geet (1970) (playback singer: “Mere Mitwa Mere Meet Re”)
… aka The Song
Gopi (1970) (playback singer)
Himmat (1970) (playback singer) (as Mohd. Rafi)
Humjoli (1970) (playback singer)
Ishq Par Zor Nahin (1970) (playback singer)
Jawab (1970) (playback singer)
Jeevan Mrityu (1970) (playback singer)
… aka Life and Death
Kab? Kyoon? Aur Kahan? (1970) (playback singer)
… aka Kab Kyon Aur Kahan (India: Hindi title: alternative transliteration)
Kankan De Ole (1970) (playback singer)
Khilona (1970) (playback singer)
Maa Ka Aanchal (1970) (playback singer)
Man Ki Aankhen (1970) (playback singer) (as Mohd. Rafi)
Mastana (1970) (playback singer)
Mera Naam Joker (1970) (playback singer) (as Mohammed Rafi)
… aka My Name Is Joker (USA)
Moojrim (1970) (playback singer) (as Mohd. Rafi)
… aka Criminal (International: English title)
My Love (1970) (playback singer)
Naya Raasta (1970) (playback singer)
… aka The New Road (International: English title)
Pagla Kahin Ka (1970) (playback singer: “Tum Mujhe yun Bhula Na Paoge”)
Pavitra Paapi (1970) (playback singer)
Pehchan (1970) (playback singer)
Raaton Ka Raja (1970) (playback singer)
Sachaa Jhutha (1970) (playback singer) (as Mohd. Rafi)
… aka Truth and Falsehood (India: English title)
Sawan Bhadon (1970) (playback singer)
Suhana Safar (1970) (playback singer)
Umang (1970) (playback singer)
… aka Enthusiasm
The list is not whole but is enough to show that Rafisaab was giving hits even during the so-called lean phase!
look at the title of this forum before u blame me for posting about kk.
also, this is getting tiring.
there r rafi fans and there r kk fans. i cannot go about counting how many there r of each, or who has more fans etc.
to each his own. u and other rafi fans feel rafi is the greatest singer, good for u. kk fans feel kk is the greatest singer. good for them.
similarly, spb fans feel he’s the greatest singer etc.
truth is kk is versatile, just like rafi. he has sung ghazals, fast songs, sad songs, happy songs, raaga based songs, low pitch songs, qawwalis etc. however, rafi was more suited to the songs of the ’50’s-’60’s where the lyrics were based on urdu compositions and were more classical, while kk was suited for songs of ’70’s-’80’s. some people like older music, while some people like music of the ’70’s and ’80’s.
for mr. nair, since this forum is limited to rafi-kk saga, i’m not comparing with any other singer. however, if u claim rafi is the greatest HINDI playback singer of india, it’s arguable but hardly the greatest indian singer. i mean, for me as a telugu, ghantasala is as versatile, as gifted, and as complete a singer as rafi.
Regarding the point that the MDs gave work to KK in the 70’s, that doesn’t mean that he was great. Just look at Shahrukh Khan. He has been the undisputed king of bollywood for the last several years even though I believe that he is not a great actor. He is actually quite an average actor, but that hasn’t stopped him from being successful. He is just lucky, he is in fashion, and these kinda things happen in showbiz. Just like Kishore who became successful despite his limited singing skills. Also think about the 50’s & 60’s, when almost all MDs avoided Kishore like anything. Remember that Kishore never wanted to act and always wanted to be a singer and was rejected for almost 20 years when he sang pretty much only a handful of SDB songs for Dev Anand etc. It doesn’t mean that Kishore was bad then…he was still the same Kishore. He is/was always an average singer and he just got lucky during the 70’s helped by the Rajesh Khanna & RD Burman wave.
Forget these arguments, and just compare the work that Rafi has left behind with Kishore’s childish songs, and you will realize the vast superiority of Rafi. It’s not just Rafi’s technical superiority that you will notice…in my opinion, Rafi was just a thousand times better singer overall!! Just compare the range of songs that Rafi could sing with utmost ease, and you just know that Kishore was nothing in front of him. I don’t care if Kishore didn’t have the training and what not…the fact is that he just wasn’t good enough.
Mr. Shankar,
Perhaps you are not very good at reading between the lines 🙂 What I am trying to say is that if you have some understanding of music, some class and education to really appreciate the subtleties of Rafi Saheb’s singing and his great voice, you will never be in doubt that Rafi Saheb is/was the greatest by a HUGE margin. The problem with guys like you is that you don’t have the class and literacy to understand the difference. I don’t care what illiterate people like because I have the education and class to understand the difference between ordinary(Kishore) and the GREATEST(Rafi).
You are destroying the sanctity of this forum. Why don’t you go and post on your favorite Kishore’s forums?? I am sure your views will be appreciated by other low-class people like you and Avi. This is just a post of an article by Chandan Das in the Calcutta Statesman newspaper, and even Chandan Das implies in the article that Rafi was the GREATEST ever!!
If you have any concerns about this article, please go an talk to Chandan Das and Statesman instead of wasting the time of Rafi fans on a Rafi forum.
and u can also add hridayanath mangeshkar who composed excellent songs for kk as late as 1984 in mashaal: zindagi aa raha hoon main, mujhe tum yaad karna aur, holi aayi re etc.
dear ramesh,
it’s funny to read ur posts. u think being more popular with the musically illiterate is bad ? how much % of india’s population is musically literate ? probably 5 %.
i wonder who u think is a better md ? naushad or s.d.burman ? bcos naushad used to compose classical, raaga based tunes, while sdb composes simple tunes that are straight forward.
bcos that’s what ur idea seems to be about rafi and kk.
the problem with u is u state ur opinions as if they were facts. u feel kk’s voice is not fit for singing, then why don’t u try telling that to rdb, rajesh roshan, bappi lahiri, kalyanji anandji, laxmikant pyarelal, sapan chakraborty, raj kamal, sdb, and all the small time md’s who took him during the ’70’s.
dear everyone,
i think it’s just people’s imagination that rdb was the only composer to take kk in the ’70’s. u r wrong. md’s like laxmikant-pyarelal who were staunch rafians used kk extensively from 1972-1977 (until they took rafi again with amar, akbar, anthony), bappi lahiri used kk for nearly all his songs till 1987, even o.p.nayyar used kk for “ek baar muskura do”, as did sapan chakrabarthy, rajesh roshan etc.
when u have such a powerful and touching voice as kk, u don’t need to be the technically best singer to rule playback singing.
Dear Avi,
Do u know that for film Laila Majnu?Mr lata Madan Mohan said that he will not give music if Mohd Rafi will not sing in this film.
Can u thinks songs of Laila Majnu with KK Voice?please be honest!!!!U don’t think in 70’s Laila Manjnu was hit?!
In film AMAR AKABAR ANTHONY I think Mr Bachchan was Super star at that time,Please listen to that songs which singed by five singers I mean Mohd Rafi ,Lata,Asha,Mukesh and ur KK,please be honet to answer who was the best?!please answer from No 1 to 5 because maybe u will say Lata ji or Asha ji.
Dear Avi are u sure that kk is better than Mohd Rafi??!!!i don’t think one can say that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No one can say that KK made Rd but all can say that Rd made KK, http://www.indianmelody.com/rdburman.htm
please give one name who said that he made Mohd Rafi,If u say Naushand u r wrong because Naushand said that he is the first who used Mohd Rafi voice range.
Please AVI ONCE BE HONEST AS A GOOD HUMAN
Dear MOhanflora, anonymous and shambhu,
Ur analysis is very bad. Tell me how many songs rafi sang for RDB in later 70’s, it will be countable on fingers. RDB never inclined toward Rafi except his early stage because he knew clearly that Rafi did not have guts to sing his music except few.
Rafi was workless between 70 to 76 and then he got 2 hit movies which made him to come in limelight i.e.
“HUM KISI SE KAM NAHI” and “AMAR AKABAR ANTHONY”.
My dear friends, he n Rafi fans should be thankful to god because both films are multi-starrer and thats why he was able to sing. Friends he did not regain his position after 69, it is proven record and history. It can’t be chnage by u n me.
Dear Unknown, u want to take out 4 names from KISHORE, Boss u forget RAJESH ROSHAN, BAPPI LAHIRI, SAPAN JAGMOHAN, USHA KHANNA and many more new talented composer.
Let me tell u truth and i am sure u people also know it, Great Mds like SJ, Madan Mohan, Salil Choudhary, KHAYYAM, Roshan did always prefer MUKESH first over Rafi except O P Nayyar, Ravi and later Naushad adn early 70 LP.
Dear Unknown, Rafi sang sad part and kishore sang jolly part in “ANDAAZ”.
Boss, KK never cried in “YE Laal Rang” u can’t understand the pain of the singer. He sang for situation where Hero was trying to ignore his pain by having drink. NoOne can sung like this.
For u it would be loud but for me it is genious work.
“MANZILEIN APNI JAGAH HAI”, i is very sad n he did not cry but still it directly touches the heart.
Even i also feel there is no comparison between RAFI n KISHORE because KISHORE is/was/will rule common people heart in great style by leaving everyone behind.
KISA DASTOOR YE DUNIYA KA NIRALA DEKHA
LOG KUL KUL HASEN HUM KO TO RONE NA DIYA
BABUL KI DUAYEN LETI JA(RAFI CRIES IN THIS SONG AND MAKE THE ALL WORLD CRY WHEN THEY LISTEN TO THIS EVEN THEY DONT HAVE ANY DAUTERWHICH THE SONG BASED ON.
KEHNA YE HAI KE (VO JIS KI KAHANI DIL SE KAHE,APNA HI FASANA LAGTA HAI) YES ONLY RAFI CAN MAKE THESE THINGS POSSIBLE. AND SHANKAR BHAI THIS IS MY FIRST TIME I READ KK VOICE TOCH THE HEART, IWAS ALWAYS HEARING FROM PPL RAFI HAVE A HEART TOUCHING VOICE.I THINK JO MISAL LOGONE RAFI KE LIYE RAKHEN HAIN AAP UNKO DOOSRON KO DENA CHAHTE HAIN.
Dear Avi and Shankar,
first u said that KK is the best because of awards,now “yodelling please look for something better 2 compare offourse u will not get,As some of friends said that take out RD from KK and I want to say take 4 name names out of KK(BACHCHAN,RD,Dev anand,Rajesh Khanna)in this case there will no one called KK or only two name MR RD AND BACHCHAN,
dear Shankar,
The song “zindagi ek safar hai suhaana ,please listen few word of the same song singed by Mohd Rafi I think u will understant that how sweet is Mohd Rafi Voice than KK
Nice Mohan, in fact KK tried to cry in some songs like Dukhi man mere and Yeh laal rang kab mujhe (oh that horrible poignant laugh). But instead of sobs what came out was some unpleasant sounds. So he stopped.
Thank you so much Avi and Shankar for your views! Would you you please enlighten us on why did RD suddenly start showing interest in Rafisaab in the late 70’s after ignoring him in the early 70’s. And why was KK sidelined by LP in the 80’s?Did KK suddenly lose his voice?Why is Rafi more popular in the diaspora?
B’cos his songs bring us closer to our indianness and culture. Most of the popular songs sung by KK had RD as his MD and over 50% of them were plagiarised from westrn tunes. No originality!
I am also living abroad and it is an embarassment to hear the plagiarised tunes being hummed by KK even though I like him. Rafisaab had divinity and feelings stamped all over him. He cried singing some sad songs because that is what one does in real life. Those feelings are expressed in song sung by Rafi. A HE-man also cries at the sad loss of a beloved! While expressing the feelings of the loss a playback singer has to ooze the emotions and feeling of the actor. If there are tears in the actors eyes, there should be remorse in his voice too. And that is what Rafisaab so successfully did.If Rafisaab cried in one frame, he also made people smile or laugh in the next frame. His field of work is very vast compared to KK’s. Just take away RD from KK scope of work and what have you? Take away RD from Rafi’s scope of work and it will make no difference at all. Like I have written earlier, There is no basis for comparison between the two singers. Compare two who have equal degrees.Not one like Rafi who is a masters and another who has just graduated.
Dear Avi n Shankar,
I think both of u have not listened to the golden greats of songs of Rafi under all the MDs of the 50s,60s to understand the versatility of Rafi’s melodious soothig n captivating voice. Without this both of u are talking crap which no music lover would accept it.
Regarding popularity please go to the small towns,villages and rural areas of our great country from Kerala to U.P, Punjab u will find Rafi is extremely popular even today. But if u are judging by the Mtv/ Disco D.Js u tend to get a false impression that ur favourite singer is popular. These are silly comments like technical etc but if u can ask the millions of music lovers amongst 100 crore indian population n the population who follow Hindi music u will get THE ONLY ANSWER RAFI N LATA WHO MAKE OUR HEART SINGS.kishore n Asha will only follow after this.
Shankar commented on the Rafi song Yeh ansoo mere dil ki that Rafi actually cries in the song or gives that impression then I do not agree. First of all the song is so lovely and sad it makes not only an elite but a commoner like me cry by the pathos. Hats off to SJ
THIS IS TO GIVE SUGGESTON TO BOTH OF U TO LISTEN TO ALL THE SONGS OF RAFI DURING THE PERIOD OF MELODY AND NOT TO SHOW ANY BIAS TOWARDS ANY ONE.
Still if u want to compare on versatility Rafi scores on Kishore by singing BHAJANS,GHAZALS,NAZMS,PATRIOTIC,CHILDREN,CLASSICAL APART FROM THE ROMANTIC,COMEDY,SAD SONGS SUNG BY BOTH.
Do u know there was a song sung by Rafi without any single instrument the song goes like this ITNA HAI BADNASEEB HAI JAFFAR composed by S.N Tripathi. Probably both of u would not have heard this lovely song.
Dear Avi,
you are saying u know all about Rafi. Pl answer this in 48hrs Who was the music director of the song of Rafi with Suman In the film Shagun”Parbaton ke pedhon par ?. In which film of O.PNayyar all the songs of Rafi are in different moods of picturisation? In whose MD both Rafi n Kishore sung for the first time? Who was the lyricst when Rafi sung the immortal song Suno suno ai duniya walo on Mahatma Gandhi? Who was the music director of the song Babul ki dhuan leti jaa ? Who sang the duet song dil ek mandir?
This is not Q/A session but since u know everything about Rafi Pl answer these. After this there will be another set of questions if u answer them correctly with in 48hrs.
Dear Shankar,
Have u listened to Yaad na jaaye, Hun bekhudin mein tumko,Tujh ko pukare mera pyaar,Suhaani raat dhal chuki, Jaane walo zara,Ek haseen shaam ko, Bhagwaan ke ghar dher,Vaadiyaan mera dhaman, and Akele hain chale avo randomly composed by the greats just to quote a few Rafi hits u will find them touching ur heart ( unless u r heartless towards sentiments) like it Touched our heart.
I also enjoy hits of Kishore,Mukesh,Talat,Hemant but please do not make any caustic remarks that the commoner only enjoys Kishore as if u have surveyed all age group across the nation.
People say that Yesudas is better singer than ur Ghantasala? I Know it is hard for u to digest.
Regards
If u have any sane positive suggestions pl contribute or walk off the Saga.
Padmanabhan I SALUTE TO THE GREATEST LEGEND RAFI SAHAB WHO HAS GIVEN ALL OF US SO MUCH ENJOYMENT IN MUSIC.
Dear Ramesh and Nair,
I think mr Avi and Shankar when they listen Mohd Rafi songs they think that is kk sings or they never say that KK singed sad songs better than mohd Rafi,The king of sad song Talat Mahmmod can’t song better than Mohd Rafi sad songs,
Dear Avi and Shankar,
about yodeling u r say please listen the Mohd Rafi yodeling as Mr Nair said.aDo u think that kk do Rafi Yahoo better than Mohd Rafi?i know in the film not Mohd Rafi singing Yahoo but he singed it at stage,what about BHAJANS is there any other Indian else Mohd Rafi can sing as Mohd Rafi singed???many more as ghazals, qawwalies, patriotic songs, comedies, romantic songs, fast songs, slow songs, loud songs, classical songs, mythological songs, discos, rock-in roll, cabaret, intoxicated mood songs, songs with sex appeal, happy songs, sad songs, extremely sentimental songs and many more
Dear Shankar,
KK can’t be 20% of manna dey as a singer.
Dear KK fans,
Please listen to how Rafi yodels in the song “Dilruba dil pe tu yeh sitam kiye ja” (last lines) from the movie Rajkumar. That’s how yodeling should be done. Rafi did that because the sensuous nature of the song required yodel. KK yodels because can’t help it. It just comes out……He made it a way to hide his “apashruti” and the cacophony that slips out from his mouth.
Dear Unknown,
Undoubtedly my friend, Rafi is the best singer India has ever produced! Well, it is an honour for KK to be compared with Rafi.
Avi & Shankar,
Don’t start give excuses that Kishore didn’t have technical training and that’s why he stinks. It’s either you have it or you don’t, and Kishore just wasn’t blessed with singing abilities, and it is obvious from his voice and his rather constipated style of singing, the style which was further constipated by Kumar Sanu. Don’t even talk about extremely childish gimmicks like yoodling…people need to do those things to cover their weaknesses and Kishore had thousands of weaknesses. Rafi never had to care about stupid things like yoodling because he knew how to sing and had the voice for it too. Somebody else has mentioned in this forum that even a clown like Johnny Lever can yoodle better than Kishore, and I have heard Johnny Lever yoodle on TV. Yoodling is childish….grow up and start listening to some real songs!!
-Ramesh
Avi & Shankar,
The two of you are the BIGGEST IDIOTS ever!! Almost everybody who understands music knows that Rafi is a million times greater than somebody like Kishore. Kishore was an all-rounder, but if you are talking about singing then he had a horrible-sounding voice when it comes to singing. He was lucky that he had RD’s great tunes to somewhat mask his bad voice. Plus, he had an exremely limited range. Just like Govinda used to be more popular among the masses and rickshaw-walas of India, it’s the same with Kishore. He must be popular amongst all the musically illiterate and cheap people in India like the two of you.
As some other posters have pointed out earlier on this forum, that it has been statistically been proven that Mohd Rafi is the most played and requested voice on radio and is the most popular bollywood singer in the world.
-Ramesh
Well said Shankar, U r 100% correct.
Rafi fans understand this clearly 🙂 but they will never accept.
dear rafi fans,
i have read the posts written by avi and he has made the exact point that i wanted to make. thank u, avi. u have an excellent point.
rafi might be technically a better singer than kk, but nobody, and i mean, NOBODY, can touch the heart better than kk. and that’s how u should measure greatness of a singer.
rafi is a learned singer but kk is a spontaneous singer. rafi appeals to people who listen with their heads, people who look for technical correctness, correct pronounciation etc. but kk appeals to people who listen with their heart and their head, and that is “the common man”.
when rafi sings a sad song like “ye aansoon hi mere dil ki zubaan hai …”, it sounds like he’s crying. he thinks bcos it’s a sad song, he must sing with a crying voice. he’s trying to “manufacture” the emotion. but when kk sings “teri duniya se hoke majboor chala, main bahut door …”, he sings it effortlessly, and u can feel the pain. it touches ur heart. he doesn’t try to create the pain by artificially changing the voice. that’s why nobody can touch kk. the common man doesn’t care about who’s a technical singer, or who’s a classically trained singer etc., he only cares about which singer touches his heart. if u take classical songs, manna dey is superior to rafi but nobody can sing like kk.
when kk sings “zindagi ek safar hai suhaana …”, u can feel the careless freedom, the happiness in his voice, and he doesn’t have to change his voice or raise his voice or do anything extra. when kk sings a song, he feels it. he doesn’t “try” to bring the emotion, it just comes into his voice naturally.
rafi might be a technically strong, versatile singer but even he cannot do “yodelling” like kk. unfortunately, rafi fans conveniently dismiss that by saying it’s just “noise”. it’s sad bcos they know rafi cannot do yodelling. if it’s just noise and not worth discussing, i wonder why rafi or manna dey or mukesh or sonu nigam or abhijeet cannot do it.
sanjeev kumar and naseeruddin shah, om puri might be better technical actors than amitabh, but neither of them can impact the audience more than amitabh. kk is similar to amitabh, while rafi is similar to om puri/naseeruddin shah.