The Rafi-Kishore saga
The following article appeared in The Statesman,Calcutta, on Aug.7 th 2005. It will give more food for thought to the ongoing debate about the Rafi personality and magic – Mohan Flora .
Mohd. Rafi was the greatest playback singer, asserts Ranjan Das Gupta as he pays tribute on the melody kings 25th death anniversary. Rafi was a classically trained singer while Kishore was naturally endowed with excellent resonance. The latter was a versatile genius, singer, music director, actor, writer and director all rolled into one. Both were proficient singers but had separate individual styles.
In the 1950s Rafi literally ruled the roost. He was the most favoured singer for veteran composers like Naushad, S.D. Burman, Shanker Jaikishan, Madan Mohan while Kishore was preferred by S.D. Burman and Salil Choudhury who was playback mainly for Dev Anand and his own films. Rafi on the other hand could balance his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
It is an astonishing fact that O.P. Nayar used Rafi to sing for Kishore Kumar the unforgettable tune Man Mora Bawra in Ragini in 1957. Shanker Jaikishan also had Rafi to sing Ajab Hai Dastan in Shararat in 1958. Says record museum owner Vinod Santhalia, It is simply amazing. Imagine Mohd. Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films Kishore himself acted.
Shanker Jaikishan commented, No doubt Kishore Kumar is a good singer. He sang beautifully for me in Rangoli. But Ajab Hai Dastan was simply not Kishores cup of tea. The mukhdas and antaras required a singer of Rafis range and classical background.
Although Kishore Kumar felt bad about this, he could only marvel at Rafis brilliant rendering of the two songs. Rafi characteristically remarked, No one else except Kishore could sing Dukhi Man Mera in Funtoosh so well.
Salil Choudhury was not favourably inclined towards Rafi at one point of time, but even he was compelled to use Rafi for the unforgettable Tootey Huey Khuabo Nay in Madhumati and Koi Soney Ke Dil Wala in Maya and confess that Rafi was indeed peerless.
It is generally known that Rafi and Kishore went through a bad patch in their relationship. Yet it is also true that both liked and respected each other. S.D. Burman openly admitted to Kishore that the three solos in Guide by Rafi could not be matched by any singer. On Dev Anands special request, he composed the Kishore-Lata super hit duet Gata Rahe Mera Dil for Guide. Similarly, Rafis numbers in Teen Deviyan and the haunting duet with Lata Mangeshkar in Jewel Thief were far superior to the Kishore numbers in these films.
In the late 60s when R.D. Burman composed the melody for Tum Bin Jaaun Kahan in Pyar Ka Mausam, he experimented the same solo with both Rafi and Kishore. True, Kishore sang this number by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. But in the romantic number, Rafi scored over Kishore in melody.
The 60s was also considered Rafis decade though Kishore matured considerably as a singer during this period. The Jungle Mein Mangal number Woh Din Ke Baat Sharan Karo had both Rafi and Kishore together but is somehow not remembered that well. But Shanker Jaikishans Hanste Gate Jahan Se Guzar in Andaz by Rafi quite eclipsed Kishores entire Zindagi Ek Safar in 1971.
Madan Mohan also used both Rafi and Kishore in the song Yu Na Sharma for Parwana in 1972. Kishore sang the happy rendition for hero Navin Nischal. But there was Rafi again to do full justice to the Are Hansnewale, the melancholic aspect of the same song for Amitabh Bachchan.
In the 1970s the Kishore Kumar wave took the Hindi film music by storm and was backed by R.D. Burman. Some critics felt R.D was partial to Kishore and avoided using Rafi. The Rafi Kishore duet Yaadon Ki Barat from the film with the same title in 1973 turned out to be a superhit. But it cannot be categorised either as an exclusive Rafi or a Kishore gem for both sang in perfect harmony.
Subsequently, R.D. Burman opted for Rafi again after four years as no other singer could have rendered so skillfully Chand Mera Dil and Kya Hua in Hum Kisi Se Kum Nahin; that too in a film with many Kishore Kumar superhits like Mil Gaya and Aa Meri Jaan.
When Rafi sang Darde Dil for Laxmikant Pyarelal in Karz in1980 based on a single note, he proved melody was indeed God-gifted to him, remembers upcoming singer Sujan Bose. Kishores Ay Mere Umar Ke and Ek Hasina Thi could not touch that level. The same can be said for Rajesh Roshan’s Yarana where Rafi’s Aare Re Aisa Tarana completely surpassed Kishore’s Sara Zamana and Tere Jaisa.
Mohd. Rafi left for his heavenly abode on 31 July, 25 years ago. Remembers author Nabaran Bhattacharya, The photo of a silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
As Kishore himself said when Jagjit Singh criticised the Rafi gharana, How dare these so-called ghazal singers criticise an icon that Manna Dey, Mukesh and I dare not criticise. Rafi was unique.
Hi Friends,
This site has sister sites dedicated to other singers including Kishore Kumar. However,sites of other singers including KK’s, do not have any visitors at all. And this site-mohdrafi.com-is inundated by visitors with regularity. Sites are popular as per the popularity of the singers? Is that so?
dear Avi as u said that u like both Mohd Rafi and KK!!!but we don’t like kk voice as we like Mohd Rafi.Don’t say that u like Mohd Rafi because what u said about Mohd Rafi I don’t think some one who like Mohd Rafi he or she will say that about the greatest mohd Rafi.
Dear Avi
If u r happy u r sound will look that u r happy it is same in singing when u sing good they will say that u r coping Mohd Rafi.
dear Avi please answer what u been asked?Why Amit kummar tried to sing Mohd Rafi song he can’t?why anwer said that he can’t sing mohd Rafi all songs?answer if can,
dear friend we r comparing God made Mohd Rafi with RD made kk,dear Avi I don’t say that please read about RD u will see that.
we miss u Mohd Rafi
Mere pass is ka solution hai…. Kuch logon ko rafi sahab ke gaane pasand hain to kuch logon ko kishor da ke…. Ismein koi 2 mat nahin hona chahiye ki rafi sahab legend hain or unhone jo yogdan diya hai uski samaanta koi other singer nahin kar sakta lekin yah bhi sach hai ki 1970-87 or usse pahle bhi kishor da ne film industry ko bahut kuch diya hai. Haan yah other matter hai ki koi rafi sahab ke favor mein hai to koi kishor da ke… other wise both he legend hai or tulna bemaani hai jab dono legend ne apne jeete ji ek doosre ka samman kiya to hum MURKHA kaun hote hai unke beech mein tulna kare wale?
Rafi sahab jaisa insaan phir shaayad hi paida hoga kyonki jitni mithi unki aawaz thi usse kahin jyada mitha unka swabhaw tha…aajkal ke singer mein yah cheej dikhayi nahin deta… “Ek musafir ek haseena (1962) ke sabhi gaane bahut acche hain or public opinion mein shayad ‘Bahut Shukriya’ ko highest vote mil jaayenge but meri choice “Humko Tumhare Ishq Ne Kya Kya Bana Diya†Hai Or aap bhi is song ko sun lijiye…. O.P. NAIYER sahab ke is gaane ko main Madan Mohan Sahab ke saare gaanon (sung by rafi sahab) Se behatar maantha hoon but mujhe pata hai log mere pasand se sahmat nahin honge kyonki unki apni own choice hai…
Thik isi tarah kuch log kishor da ko sunna pasand karte hain to kuch rafi sahab ko or mere jaise kuch log dono ko he sunte hain or SAMAN maante hain kyonki Tulna karne wala baseless hai…. Below 5 song rafi sahab ke hain jinhe koi doosra singer kabhi nahin gaa sakta or dusre words mein in songs ke saath nyaay nahin kar sakta: –
1 Suhanni raat dhal chuki (Dulaari-1949) Nausad/Saqeel sahab.
2 Koi sone ke dil wala (Maya-1960) Salil da/Majrooh sahab
3 Din dhal jaaye raat naa jaye (Guide-1965) Sachin da/Shailendra shahab
4 Bade miyan deewane aise (Shagird-1967) Laxmi/pyare..bakshi sahab
5 Chura liya hai tumne (Yadon ki barat-1973) Pancham da/ Majrooh Sahab
kuch light song shaamil hain lekin it’s my challenge koi doosra singer in songs ko rafi sahab jaisa nahin gaa sakta… ab kishor da or kuch other singer ke song par gaur farmaate hain jinhe particular singer hi gaa sakte they like:-
1 Tasweer banata hoon tasweer nahin banti (Baradari-1954)
2 Sham-e-gam ki kasam (Footpath-
3 Raat ne kya kya khwab dikhaye (Ek gaon ki kahani-1957)
4 Phir wahi shaam wahi gam wahi tanhaayi (Jahan aara –1963)
Above golden songs by Talat sahab & kya aapko lagta hai ki koi dusra singer in gaano ke saath wahi nyaay kar paata jo talat sahab ne kiya hai?
1 Aadha hai Chandrama raat Aadhi (Navrang-1958)
2 Chalo ek baar phir se ajnabi ban jayein (Gumraah-1963)
3 Neele gagan ke tale (Hamraaj –1967)
4 Mere desh ki Dharti (Upkaar –1967)
Above songs by mehendra kapor sahab jo RAFI SAHAB KO APNA GURU MAANTE THEY. 1963 OR 1967 MEIN UNHE RAFI SAHAB KE AGAINST FILMFARE AWARD MILA THA…. Maine yah nahin kaha ki kapoor sahab kisi other samkaalin singer se acche ya bure thery balki main yahan unka yogdan bata raha hoon.
1 Dil tadap tadap ke kah raha (Madhumati-1958)
2 Kisi ki Mukurahaton pe(Anaari-1959)
3 Jaaon kahan bata-e-dil (Choti Bahan-1960)
4 Ek din Bik Jayega (Dharam Karam – 1972)
Muksh sahab ke in gaanon ko other koi singer nahin gaa sakta.â€Ek din bik jayega†ek baar sunkar dekiye…. Result ke liye rukna nahin hoga.
1 Yeh raat bhigi bhigi (Chori Chori –1957) one of the greatest romantic duet of hindi cinema.
2 Laga chunri mein daag (Dil hi to Hai –1963) koi tulna nahin ki jaa sakti
3 Zindagi kaisi hai paheli (Aanand-1970)
4 Aayo kahan se Ghanshyam (Buddha mil gaya –1971) ek baar sun kar dekhiye.
1 Yeh raat yeh chandani phir kahan (jaal-1953)
2 Hai apna dil to awara (Solva saal –1958)
3 jaane wo kaise log they jinke (Anupama-1966)
4 Tum pukar lo tuhara intizar hai (Khamoshi-1969)
Above songs Hemant da ke hain jo all time greatest hit’s ke range mein aate hain.
Ab baat karte hain Kishor da ki …KOI UNHEIN LIGHT SINGER MAANTA HAI TO KOI UNHEIN FUNNY SINGER KAHTA HAI LEKIN SACH YAH HAI KI 1970 KE BAAD KA KHAMBHA INHI KE KANDHON PAR TIKA HAI AB ISMEIN KISHOR DA WRONG NAHIN HAI YADI US DAUR MEIN MOSTLY LIGHT SONG HI BANE (SAMAY KE MAANG KO DEKHTE HUYE) OR UN LIGHT SONGS KE SAATH KISHOR DA NE INSHAAF KIYA HAI AS WELL AS RAFI SAHAB BHI IS DAUR MEIN ACTIVE RAHE OR UNHONE BAUT KUCH DIYA. So Kishor da ke 5 different song lete hain
1 Aa Chal ke tujhe main le ke chaloon (Door gagan ki chaon mein-1964) Ismein kishor da ki voice suniye.
2 Chingaari koi bhadke to sawan use bujhaye (Amar prem-1971)
3 Dil aisa kisi ne mera toda (Amaanush-1975)
4 Raah pe rahte hain (Namkin-1982) IS SONG MEIN KISHOR DA SUFIWADI DIKHAYI DETE HAI OR PLEASE WHO AALOCHAK IS SONG KO JAROOR SUN LEIN JO KISHOR DA KO LIGHT SONG KE QAABIL SAMAJHTE HAIN.JIN LOGON KO LOW SCALE KI SAMAJH HOGI WHO JAROOR MERI BAAT SE SAHMAT HOGE AS RAFI SAHAB IS KING OF HIGH SCALE.
5 Man zilein apni jagah hain rate api jagah (Sharabi-1984).
Ab In 5 songs mein kitna songs light hain yah bataaiye or phir kahiye ki kya in songs ko jis tarah se kishor da ne gaya hai waisa koi dusra gaa sakta?
So us daur ka harek singer apne aap mein pura or legend hai….. Yah kahna ki rafi #1 hain ya kishor # 1 hain bem an I hoga…. OR M AIN UMMED KARTA HOON KI RAFI SAHAB KE FAN’S #1 KE CHAKKAR KO BHULKAR ACCHE MUSIC KO ENJOY KARENGE.
>> And ADMIN come only when you are required , first go and check AVI’s reply which he did just now.
Please bring such posts to my notice, I’ll take care of it.
Sagar, when some one says that they don’t like Rafi. Please understand that it it not Rafi Sahab’s insult. They are expressing their taste. That is all. Using filthy language is not a way to retaliate. Please understand. Thanks.
ADMIN,
Kyo be when these asshole KK Fans were using shit words abt RAFI SAHAB where the hell were you ????
If I am being staright up to the point ( check my previous all blogs )
I am using such words because these stupid people started first.
And ADMIN come only when you are required , first go and check AVI’s reply which he did just now.
Sagar, such langauge is not approved on this website. Debate should be healthy. Using filthy language on a site, which is completeley and immensely dedicated to Rafi Sahab will not be approved. Please stick to the topic. If you cannot debate in a healthy manner, please don’t comment at all.
Your messages will be deleted.
dear Prashant Veer,
I can understand your anger. If i say something against you people then i am wrong but samething if you say against me then it is right. I know your taste. You mean to say whatever SAAGAR, MONU and other guys wrote were correct.
GREAT.
One more thing, you can say Rafi is far superior than KISHORE but i differ.
Tell me when i abused or wrote something bullshit against Rafians or Rafi. I can’t say anything against rafi as i can crticise his songs but not him. I can also write sweet words for few bullshit elemets in this site but i am not like others.
So there is no question for me leaving this site. Yes you can do one thing, you can ask the adminsitrator of this site to block this page. I will not visit this site again. I am not going to leave this site as long RAFI_KISHORE-SAGA page displays and you people keep degrading KK’s singing talent.
This site is for people who can just praise Rafi and ignore his bad singing. I have already mentioned his few among many worst songs in my prev. blog. He sang in most of B-grade, C-grade movies in 50-60 and songs are also pathetic. He gave good songs to all great MDs. Again i am not doubting his singing capability. He is also one of my favorite. It is better for you to understand what i meant here.
I never said what person should watch and what should skip but i said few Rafians always tried to ignore, if someone praises KISHORE.
There are few intellectual people in this site who claim that they know music so it is very difficult for them to digest how one untrained singer ruled the industry for later 18 yrs. whereas trained singer who ruled the industry for early 19 yrs. struggled a lot to save his position.
It is understandable but you have to accept the truth.
Dear Avi,
As a KK fan, I request you to leave this site immediately. This is not a KK site, where you want to just listen his praises. As I have mentioned earlier also Rafi is a far superior singer than KK and above all many Rafi fans have given excellent tribute to KK. I don’t think any other NON KK site will provide such a tribute to KK. Plus I believe you should not ask for more. You just want to write for the hac of it. Plus you are unnecessarily instigating Rafi fans to invite such harsh critisizm on your self. You have no business to comment on what a person should watch or skip. Rafi fans are not fools like you, they talk with proper proof and evidence.
Dear Anmol,
You only see what you like or what you want to see. Whatever Bappida said abt that participant in SA RE GA MA was 100% correct. One participant sang “O manjhi Re” and other sang Rafi’s song from “Sangharsh”, Bappi praised them. I am sure you would have managed to skip that episode.
And i am sure the incident which i had mentioned in my prev. blog, you would have managed to skip.
Good 🙂
Hi Avi,
I have seen SA RE GA MA episodes. He praised one of the participants stating ‘your voice is good, but needs improvement for which he should acquire training from a music academy’.
dear MohanFlora,
As i said in my prev. blog, I am great fan of Kishore and Rafi.
I have huge collection of rafi and personally i like his song very much and i no need to prove that. People who understand me, they know how i like Kishore and Rafi. I can’t even heard anything against them.
Problem here is you people don’t give respect to Kishore and you people say, KK is not upto the mark, he bark and so many thing. So i feel it is my duty to get you aware of the truth.
Dear MohanFlora, I am not ashamed that Kishore sang for Mawaali, Himmatwala, justice choudhary, Maqsad, Giraftaar. I am proud that he could only sang that kind of songs. I have collection of all his duets with ASHA in all those movies.
dear Anmol, Pls. start watching SA RE GA MA PA, Bappi Lahiri is one of the host. In last few episode, he said How brilliantly kishore sang last few lines from Sharabi “Mujhe Noulakha manga de”. After his death, Bappi said He lost his 50% because kishore used to add his own innovation to make not only his but also many Mds songs popular.
Dear Mohanflora, you are free to think anything abt me. I don’t mind whether you say fanatic, naive or blah blah. But somewhere in the corner you may feel that i know whatever i am writing.
Dear Mohanflora, Don’t get me wrong. if someone try to say Kishore is the only best then i may write the same thing in favor of Rafi as i am writing for kishore. Both are genious but personally i hearing Kishore more. I am in process of collecting all his(KISHORE) unpopular songs and i started liking him more than i was.
As Anmol said, bappida is a good composer but media put a Disco stamp on him which is not true.
My fav. Bappi’s composition:
1. Muskurata Hua gul khilata hua mera yaar
(I like this song especially because of Kishore..) ..Laho ke do Rang
2. E Naina E Kajal, E julfe E Aanchal Khubsurat si ho tum Gazal…
Dil se mile dil
3. Manzilein Apni Jagah Hai
4. Kishore’s line in Mujhe Noulakha Manga de re
……SHARABI
5. Fabulous number from SAAHEB…KYA KHABAR KYA PATA
Dear Anmol.
Thanks for the update on Bappida.See! That is what everybody says about Rafi, but this avi guy wants to have his own say. He wants to prove something for which no proof is needed. Frankly, as we are still of sound mind, we should try talking about the other aspects of playback singing-a vast subject which remains untapped. We are losing focus and treading a path which leads nowhere with these baseless arguments.
Avi,
I am starting to believe that you have ears only for KK. Other people have universal/multitrack ears-where they can listen to all types of voices and sounds- but you have ears made for one track/KK only. Nice listening!
Hi avi dear,
In my comment I have not written anything harsh about KK’s songs for Bappida. Why do you get so cut up? Seems like you think you are the only authority on KK, you are so possessive about him as if you own him. Even Amit Kumar will not act like you. Do you think all others answering to your foolish arguments are naive?In fact, the songs of Himmatwala, Mawaali etc. were a rage at one time and there was a market for them as a great category of people liked them. Why are you ashamed of those songs sung by KK? A fanatic like you should wrap up any KK song whether it comes out from top or bottom. Personally, I liked KK songs of the Maawali kind at the time.Even songs from Justice Choudhury, Jaani Dost etc.You may feel embarrassed to admit KK had sung the Jeetendra-Jayaprada-Sridevi type of songs but I enjoyed them at the time!
Hi Mohan,
Yesterday Bhappi Lahiri mentioned, no one can sing like Rafi Saab. He personally sang the song ‘Sathiya Gam Nahi Karnaa’ which he had composed for Rafi. Living the songs Jeetendra-Sridevi songs which is like a bad patch, overall Bhappi Lahiri is not a bad composer at all, thought our friend Prashant has been quiet harsh on him.
Dear Mohanflora,
I don’t know what you are writing. It is really sad.
Why you are comparing “Mawali, “Himmatwala” songs to College girl? It is real sad. These films are remake of Telugu movie and they wanted the similar kind of songs.
If you remember College Girl then you must be knowing, there is one great song sung by KISHORE (Pyaar Maanga Hai tumhi se na inkaar karo) and it is far and far better than Rafi’s songs.
Boss, Bappi lahiri will be remembered in the future because of following songs..
1. CHalate Chalte Mere Ye geet yaad Rakhna
2. Mujhe NouLakha manga de
3. manzilein Apni Jagah Hai
4. Muskara hua dil lubhata hua mera yaar
5. Jalta hai jiya mera bhigi bhigi raaton me
6. Pyaar Maanga Hai tumhi se na inkaar karo.
7. Kya Khabar Kya Pata, Kya khushi hai ghum hai kya ….from SAAHEB
For your kind Info, all songs are sung by KISHORE….There are many…
No doubt Rafi was great singer but i am sure he could have not done justice to south india style songs (Mawaali, Himmatwala, Maqsad, etc.) as Kishore did.
Dear friends,
Bappi Lahiri had many songs and singers singing for him. Out of all the songs there is only one gem of a song which is remembered to this day and seems fresh as ever. All the KK songs of the Jeetendra-Sridevi thunderthighs era are forgotten but a Rafi solo “Phoolon ki tarah hasti thi” from the film College Girl(I think?) comes as a whiff of fresh air from the cacaphony of other voices. Rafisaab’s music is ageless, just like his memory will forever remain, and on this solemn day, July 31st.,I send my heartfelt remembrances to all his fans in India and the world from the shores of US, where his popularity is surging like never before among young and old, age no barrier!
dear avi,
i never said tht kk is bad i only said tht kk too had sung many unpopular numbers. n the comparison between ‘khatun ki kidmat’ n ‘din dhaljaye’ was done especially for u coz u feel rejuvenated by listening to unpopular numbers of kk.i wud not compare it with ‘hum bewafa’ or ‘ manzelein apni jagah’ either coz ‘din dhal jaye’ is too good a song to b compared with any other song. the variations made by rafisaab were way too many so i thnk it wud b unfair to compare it with other singers.mukesh himself said tht rafi was a better singer than him.also the variation u r talking abt is in the whole stanza whereas im talking abt just 1 line so get the difference. i wud never say tht kishore was bad coz im no one to pass such a big comment but i wud never compare him with rafi either coz rafi n kishore r 2 completely different entities.i admire kks talent but whn it comes to singing ther is no one like RAFISAAB!!!!
thanks dear Anmol Singh
I hope dear Avi and Shankar tu saw on TV that Anwer(singer)said that he can’t sing Mohd Rafi all songs and U said that Mr Rajesh Khanna siad that Anwer can sing better than Mohd Rafi,I hope should learn,
WE MISS U MOHD RAFI
Let me first pay my tribute to great singer, Rafi.
Now let me come to the pt.
Dear Vicky, It is very sad that you are comparing “Khatun ki khdimat” with “Din Dhal Jaaye”. What a poor comparison.
Compare “Din Dhal Jaye” with “Hum Bewafa Hargiz na the” or “manzilein Apni Jagah Hai”.
Dear Anmol, This is very obvious that if you don’t like thing what i say then it create a problem for you(rafians) and same thing happened with Rajan.
I have mentioned few (among many) Rafi’s unpopular songs in my prev. blog which is not at all good (I don’t want to be rude here as today is his death anniversary).
Someone wrote abt Rafi’s variation in “Heer Ranjha”, and point doubt in Kishore ability. Why you people become deaf when you hear KK.
Song from Anurodh……..
Jab Dard Nahi Tha sine me Tab KHAKH maja tha Jeene me
Variation : Last ANtara as follows…
IS Kadar pyar to koi karta nahi, marne walo ke saath koi marta nahi
Aapke saame main na phir gaaounga, geet hi jab na honge to kya gaaounga..(Saptak)meri awaaz pyari hi to doston yaar bach jaaye mera (mid) dua sab karo.
Yesterday there was an interview with Neeraj, hope you people know him, if not pls. find it, He said how brilliantly kishore sang “PHOLON KE RANG PE DIL KE KALAM SE” with many variations. Pls. listen this song as music lover not as anti KK. You will find he was never less than Rafi.
As long as you people keep writing bullshit abt Kishore, I keep informing you the truth.
shut up kisore gawar fans no ranjan panjan can prove anything rafi sahab was the est of best i support whoever supports rafi
Hi Anmol,
Thanks for the research, this is very sad. I also feel KK would have been classically trained, but using PANDIT for his name is certainly incorrect. This person Rajan is no less than a KK fanatic.
Dear Rafi Fans,
On request of Shankar who has called us baised, we have done some research on Rajan Parrikar’s profile.
This person Rajan Parrikar who claims to be Recongnized expert on Indian Classical Music is basically a KK fan of refined category. No one would have any objection on that. The following articles have pharses like PANDIT KISHORE KUMAR, which indeed is voilation of musical ethics and code of conduct, since KK had no training in classical music as such. This calls for a legal action against Rajan Parrikar. But unfortunatly there is no such law under the Indian Penal Code, where people like Rajan Parrikar can be brought to books.
http://www.sawf.org/newedit/edit04292002/musicarts.asp
http://www.sawf.org/newedit/edit01142002/musicarts.asp
http://www.sawf.org/newedit/edit09032001/musicarts.asp
http://www.sawf.org/newedit/edit12112000/musicarts.asp
Plus following link has some confrontations of Rajan with some Rafi fans – ‘Rajan, Don’t say this about Rafi’.
http://groups.google.co.in/group/rec.music.indian.misc/browse_thread/thread/53445676c2498d3f/cd031f68836623a1%23cd031f68836623a1
kishore fans singin is about how well u sing not how bad noises u make rafi sahab is the best
dont tell me that boreman (rd burman ) was great this is for that foolish avi be happy with the harsh voice of kishore gavar
this day is the saddest day in my life
lets admit it guys rafi sahab cannot be compared to any singer because
1.kisore gawar(kumar) voice quality 0% (people think he is great but he is asuper bad singer)
2.sonu copies rafi he canot proudly say even this
Hi Shankar,
What language which Rajan Parrikar has used for Ustab Ali Akbar Khan is very disgusting. There are many classical singers like Ustab Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan may not have a good voice, but he specializes in a all together different area. Any critic is suppose to use words properly before writing for any icon as such.
Unlike you I also know Rajan Parrikar through his writings. If you have read each and every post of Rajan, then possibly you know him better then me.
Avi,
As a KK fan it is my job to speak what is it right, because I feel KK could have been better than what he was.
Now there is one more surprise for you, unlike KK his son Amit Kumar is also not a trained singer. If KK was not a trained singer, possible he could have insisted his son to do so.
But this is not the case with Nitin Mukesh. His father told him that singing is a painful profession. But since he insisted to take singing as his career, Mukesh insisted that he should get trained first. Since Mukesh himself was a trained singer, he understood the value of training.
http://www.hindilyrix.com/singers/singer-nitin-mukesh.html
Possibly Nitin Mukesh enjoyed a better repo with music directors like Khayyam, LP & Rajesh Roshan. Were as for Amit it was mainly RB Burman, but he sang for other music directors also. Again I will say Amit is a better singer than Nitin.
In other words one believes in following the rules of music, while the other doesn’t. But there is some good news also Amit Kumar from last tens years is seeking training under Pt. Satyanarayan Sharma.
http://www.hindilyrix.com/singers/singer-amit-kumar.html
Der Aye Durust Aye
DEAR RAFI FANS,
Let us not mind what Avi n Shankar do as we know that they are not getting satisfaction by the poor response in their favourite website. This is the only reason the ill mannered persons are playing mishcievious peeping Tom.
Today we pay tribute to the GREATEST SINGER OF HINDI FILMS RAFI who left us 26 yrs ago but HE lives amongst all sane music lovers across the globe.
Ganesh Chennai
Hi Shankar,
Compared to Rajan Parrikar, I find Raju Bharatan as a critic far more convincing, because he speaks the facts.
I request you, first join an institute and know the basics of music yourself before writing any thing senseless and over expositing yourself. Poir to my training in Sangaeet Mahabharati, it was my belief that there is no need of training. But that is incorrect, without that one cannot become a complete singer. Most trainers insist to practice with a tabla accompany. Therefore most professional singers have their own musicians along with them. Possibly I did not pursue singing, since it was difficult for me to maintain consistency, due to my work schedule.
Avi,
Even if Pt. Bhimsen Joshi says that Mahendra K is not a singer at all, we have no issues, since both fall in completely different categories. Earlier I had mentioned that if we compare Rafi and Ustab Bade Gulam Ali Khan, the world would laugh at us.
Prashant is a proper KK fan, he has musical sense. Therefore he can understand both KK and Rafi both very well. Just because he has been a bit harsh on your writings, so he is pretending to be a KK fan. Why a KK fan cannot correct you? Plus I find his writings quiet conviencing, plus he also feels that KK should have been trained.
What fact he has mentioned that Rafi never challenged the compositions of Music composers is also correct. That was not the case with KK, this fact has been comfirmed through my collegues who listen to both. Many occassions music composors use to force him to sing a particular song, even if KK was not in favour to sing it.
Today is Rafi Saheb 26th death anniversary & I pay homage to the superior singer Rafi Saheb on and behalf of all Rafi fans.
I also request Avi & Shankar to say something good for Rafi Saheb.
And yeah one more thing. Those of you who argue without listening to the other’s songs….you don’t know what you’re missing. 🙂
Shut up both KKda and Rafi Sahab fans, Shabbir Kumar was the greatest :)))))))
Okay Okay, to the point. God, this is the first time I’ve heard
1) More the number of successful clones, better the singer is
2) More the songs that remind you of the actor, better the singer is
Hmm…I should thank the person for this wonderful Sacred Knowledge. I am indeed enlightened.
Personally, I am a HUGE Kishoreda fan and a HUGE Talat fan. I am also a HUGE HUGE Mannada, Mukesh and Hemantda fan.
But, I am simply and unabashedly a PROUD Raffian. I don’t need to prove his superiority. I don’t want to prove his superiority. Rafi Sahab wouldn’t have spared me if I had attempted that in his lifetime. He would’ve been very happy with his friend getting all the limelight, with some malai chai in his hand and kites to fly.
It would be blasphemous for us, who call ourselves Raffians, to downgrade a mighty colossal GENIUS like Kishoreda. Rafi sahab would’ve never forgiven us for that. In his memory, please, please don’t degrade any singer, be it even Shabbir Kumar!! Please remember that we are no one to bash a singer, since we simply can’t dream of singing like them. We, as Raffian, should try to abide by the ideals he set for himself…that of simplicity, humility, and generosity.
Both sides, please don’t make statements just to spite. I am already ashamed to call myself a part of such a musical fraternity where there are two sides – Rafi Gharana and Kishore Gharana. It’s idiotic. You’ll find me humming Yeh Naina Yeh Kajal and Chaudhvin ka Chand one after the other. You’ll find me singing Zindagi Ke Safar Mein Guzar Jaate Hain and Mere Mehboob Tujhe on the same day. And you’ll also find me humming Jalte Hain Jiske Liye, Yeh Raat Yeh Chandni Phir Kahan, Main Pal Do Pal Ka Shayar Hoon, Mere Sajan Hain Us Paar…on the same day.
Instead of bickering like kids by arguing for the sake of arguing, at tangents moreover, let’s all celebrate the spirit of Hindi Film Music and whatever ideals Rafi Sahab and Kishoreda stood for. Let’s not separate their camps, let’s bridge the divide and unify the gaps. Please, it’s a sincere request.
Three Cheers for ALL Golden Era singers!
Dear Avi,
do u know what LP said about Mohd Rafi?L from LP said that be became famous because of Mohd Rafi and Lata and P from LP said that Mohd Rafi Lata and Asha they can sing any song we made but others they can’t,what about O P nayar,what about Naushand?what about SJ when they said this song is not KK cup of tea?
DO RAASTE†and “MEHBOOB KI MEHANDI†both Rajesh Khanna films and u know that,please listen to songs how great way singed by mohd Rafi,Do u thing that KK can sing it the same way?!!!!!
As u said that it is easy to sing Mohd Rafi than KK dear Avi u r wrong 100% because go for remix of KK and Mohd Rafi songs u will know the answer.
dear Avi KK SON AMIT KUMMAR HE EASY SING KK SONGS BUT WHEN HE TRIED TO SING MOHD RAFI SONGS HE SINGED SO BAD I HOPE U SAW THAT PROGRAMM ON ZEE TV .
what is bad we siad about KK?that KK tried five time sing a song for LP and he can’t and Mohd Rafi singed the same some in 10 min it is said by LP,Ravi(MD)said that many songs can’t be singed by KK and it is singed by Mohd Rafi,it is wrong when we said that if u take out Rajesh khanna and Bachchan out from KK there will be nothing,Is it wrong when we said that RD and SD as MD who made KK?!dear Avi if say that Naushand Made Mohd Rafi ok i will agree with you but after that Mohd Rafi made many names O P Nayar,LP,RD,Shammi K,and there is big list please give me one name who said that he is because of KK.
I HOPE AVI U WILL ANSWER MOHD RAFI FANS ANSWER DAY WILL NOT BE NIGHT IF U SAY
To All Music Lovers,
ON BEHALF OF ALL MUSIC LOVERS I PAY HOMAGE TO THE HUMBLE NOBLE AND THE GREATEST SINGER IN BOLLYWOOD RAFI SAHAB WHO LEFT THIS CRUEL WORLD 26YRS AGO AND HAS GIVEN ALL HUMAN MORTALS LIKE US GEMS OF THE MELODIOUS SONGS WHICH CAN MAKE ANY HEART SING.
Narayanan
Dear friends,
I have read all the blogs and feel that the two gentlemen or should I say mentalmen Avi n Shankar are creating confusion amongst themseleves.
I shall quote one of them saying that L.P preferred Mukesh over Rafi which is the biggest bloommer of their views.
My kids who are in the teens know that Rafi was the only favourite male singer of LP and Lata the female.
Few examples like Milan, Manchali,Gora aur Kala doesnt hold any water. Do you know that Rafi had many commitments n dates with all the leading MDs? Also fans like me who are staying abroad were lucky to have Rafi for so many concerts in the past.
Hence it is absurd to talk such wrong deliberate mistakes to prove your views.
PL GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT N THEN COMMENT.
ON BEHALF OF ALL MUSIC LOVERS I PAY HUMBLE TRIBUTE ON THE 26TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE GREATEST BOLLYWOOD SINGER MOHD RAFI WHO LEFT US IN 1980 BUT HIS IMMORTAL SONGS ARE A GREAT SOLACE IN THIS VIOLENT WORLD MAKING MORTAL HUMANS LIKE US HAPPY IN THE WAVEOF MELODIOUS INNUMERABLE SONGS LEFT BY THE LEGEND.
JAI HIND JAI RAFI SAHAB JAI NATIONAL INTERGRATION
Nandita Canada
mr shankar said about training is it our fault that kisuoar kumar was not trained it was only his fault
my maid makes better noises with her plates than that kishore dah!!! rafi sahab was the best and will remain the best
dear avi n shankar,
thngs r going out of hand now,u ppl say its easy to sing rafis song than tht of kks.yeah,its easy if u r singing besura(non rhythmic)! as an amateur singer i have always found kks song easier to sing than tht of rafis.i will give u just one example in the song”yeh duniya yeh mehfil” in the third stanza there is this line”gum ko bulhane ka koi bahan na mila” in this line rafisaab has made a tremendous variation wch has been amiss in any of the kk songs. now coming to the quality thing if rafisaab did not sing quality than who did n talking about unpopular numbers if rafisaab sang them badly then kk was also unbearable in unpopular numbers especially the ones he sang with asha bhonsle in the movies starring ‘jeetendra’ n ‘jaya prada/sridevi’ if tht u mean by quality then maybe im better off with out the ‘quality’ !!!!
even i have heard raifsaabs unpopular numbers n i wud anyday prefer to listen to kks good songs than rafis bad numbers but both avi n shankar wud listen to kks bad numbers n feel ‘rejuvenated’ than listening to rafisaabs good numbers !! so they find more solace in listening to ‘khatun ki kidmat’ than to ‘din dhal jaye/tere mere sapne’!!
good going ‘avi’ n ‘shankar’ keep it up!!!!!
hi dear BENGALIS ,
Is there who knows about BENGALIS music?can some one tell me who is the best in Bengalis Manny Dey or KK?
dear Avi I want ask in film Dosti KK gave playback for Bachchan but why there is song by Mohd Rafi and some other films it is same also with Rajesh Khanna as unknow said it never happened with Shamm kapoor?please don’t give same answer u gave before.
dear Avi please don’t forget 2 see Tv and listen Radio on 31/7(This Monday)
dear Avi when i listened to this song”O Duniya Ke Rakhwale”when i was so young i was thinking why people say this is one of the best songs and don’t like 2 listen this song but now i like 2 listen it again and again.
I think dear Avi u want to go on the sun at night because u think that at day time it hot.i hope u understant what i mean.
I feel that Avi u r not KK fans because what u said about kk I think Mohd Rafi fans can say better than u.
It is imposible who listen both Mohd Rafi and KK and he said that kk is better.
when said that KK have no back ground in Music If i am not wrong KK had better back ground in music than Mohd Rafi had.
Hi friends,
I am sorry that our KK fans do not understand the norms of playback singing. I have to repeat it again. The playback singer has to depict the emotions-joy,malancholy, playfulness, foolishness etc- of the character being portrayed on screen and that he does by using his voice. He also has to match the antics of the actor, eye movements etc. thinking himself as the actor. Point is both the actor and playback singer have to gel.When one sees a movie the viewer feels that the voice is coming out of the onscreen character. And there was no one-mind you, I say no one!- to beat Rafi in this. Our KK friends find Rafi’s voice pathetic.Ha Ha Ha! The best of filmdom musicians used Rafi to churn out mega hits(that last to this day) using that”pathetic” voice for years together without realising the quality of his voice! You can give as many excuses as possible for KK losing out badly to Rafi in polls conducted by top film musicians but you must learn to face the facts- Rafi always comes out on top and KK is shown as also-ran!
Dear Avi,
If two from Pakistan they are speaking about Pakistan they will say many thing bad about Pakistan but If some one else will say something bad about Pakistan they will not agree(sorry for using the of PAkistan),it is same to u.
If mr Rajesh Khann fav is KK why be went 2 Mohd Rafi in some songs if we go to Shamma K he never went 2 KK?!!
Dear Avi the great u saw the program on Zee tv when KK son(Amit) tried 2 sing Mohd Rafi song and he can’t I hope u remmber that?!!thanks for saying that in SA RE GA MA PA the boys they can’t sing KK songs but they can sing Mohd Rafi because Mohd Rafi was singer who is in SA RE GA MA PA they are singers it same when u say 2 a footballer to play cricket he,i hope u understant.
It not mean who singed more he or she most be in the list If like that the best Male singer is Mr Bachchan because all songs singed by mr bachchan are hit,maybe dear Avi u will say that when mohd Rafi and Bachchan singed together mr bachchan was better t5han Mohd Rafi!!!
Dear Avi i hope that u agree with me that O P Nayar and Naushand they are great MD,If we go to O P Nayar he became famous without the Queen Lata and Naushand was great without KK,please give me one MD without Mohd Rafi he was great?
when I listen to Mohd Rafi I remmber u dear Avi why is not Mohd Rfai is u r fav?!!are u magic proof?
Kishoreans, after a withdrawal, have come back. I thought that the withdrawal is for gathering more knowledge, but did not know that they went to get more bulls to litter the forum. Genuine Kishoreans are marginalized by the fanatics. Also, yes, Mohan Flora said it; non-entitles are also coming, as Kishore’s advocate. Over all, there is some futility in the effort of Rafians. It is that “you can only wake up a sleeping one, not one who pretends to be sleepingâ€. Right?
Thanks to all Rafians for enhancing the knowledge on Rafi (to name a few would be injustice to others). This forum is a sort of epistemic community. Thanks are also to Kishoreans for making me realize that Kishore Kumar’s existence is in the fallacies and illogicalities of his fans. At least, can’t you Kishoreans speak about Music and its rudiments, and then relate those to Kishore’s qualities? Yeah I can understand; probably you will have noting to say then.
From
Aryans (Rafi fan)
Dear
Shankar and avi
As earlier Pranab and Rashid said you to leave this site
I am very for that
We are not against of KK , we respect him very much
but, you both please understand the singing quality of Rafi sahab & KK is totally different, singing range of Rafi sahab was very high and that KK cannot touch , that you all know very well
So please dont fight for useless things
Aryans
Rafi Fans
Thanks Suhail, At last you understnad that we are living in democracy and we all have rights to express our views.
Dear Asif, There was an interview in 1977, Rafi said he sang ALMOST 25k SOngs and i think KISHORE sang not more than 5K songs. SO Rafi got 7 songs and Kishore got 2 songs. Do you think song from “KAL HO NA HO” deserve to be in the list? I don’t think so. There are 1000 of songs better than KAL ho na ho but it was there.
There was condition for JURY to select their best songs and best singer not in their Favorite order. PLs. visit to the site, definetely you will know the truth.
Rafi was no doubt good singer but his quality of songs are very very less with respect to Quantity as compared to KK, MUKESH.
I don’t enjoy Rafi’s unpopular songs whereas Kishore unpopular are still rejuvanate me.
Rafi’s few among many unpopular songs whichi don’t want to listen again.
1. Aye Jane-e- wafa aisa bhi kya tum to khafa …Chhalia
2. Jab ek qaza se gujro to ..Devta
3. Tu hi meri Laxmi.. Duniya
4. Husn aur Ishaq.. Husn aur Ishaq
Pls. listen..
5. Main hu Mr. Johny… Mai Baap (Pathetic songs…He was trying to imitate funny but failed to do so)
All 4 songs are from great MDs except 4th.
Kishore’s unpopular songs are rejuvanated songs which is another differentiating point.
Dear MohanFlora, You found KK much lesser and i found Md. Rafi overarted after listening him more closely. I am sorry to say but it is fact.
Dear Rafians, I will tell you another fact. Pls. watch singing competition, you come to know that person who were classically trained, theycan sing most complicated song of Rafi but when they have been asked to sing one Kishore’s song, they failed. Nowaday, in SA RE GA MA PA program children are participating and one guy who sings Rafi’s tough songs very easily. Last year also he was there, he sang tough songs from film “Sangharsh”
and in judges choice when he was asked to sing Kishore’s song, “Chingari koi bhadke” by Vinod. He could not do justice to same song.
Anyone can sing Rafi’s songs even most predictable singer like sonu NIgam.
Good going Prashat Veer, very good. You are really a good analyst unlike and Avi & Shankar.
Yes Rafi Saheb was a humble human being and that is why people like Avi and Shankar are taking Rafi fans for granted. Any how I am sorry for saying Avi to leave this site. He has the right to express his thought.
Hi Friends,
Do not be ruffled by our site mates, avi and shankar. In fact, they are helping us to understand Rafi’s music even more vis-a-vis comparison to lesser singers KK,Mukesh and the like. I am not a musician- classical or otherwise.I am just an avid music lover and take great pride in listening to Rafi, KK and other indian singers. I was/am a Rafi and KK fan-which I have been saying right from the outset. With Avi and Shanker advancing their arguments I began listening even more intently to the above two singing giants. I am disappointed to note that I have found KK to be even much of a lesser singer than Rafi since following their advice and listening to the songs of both the singers over and over again. That does not mean that I have stopped being a KK fan. I would just request them to please
tone down their arguments to believable levels before we start losing KK fans. And who is this non-entity Rajan Parrikar they are trying to project?
Never heard of him.
Prashant Veer, I salute you for being a knowledgeable KK fan.
Dear Anmol, please keep up the good work!
Thanks and once again, avi and shankar, you guys seem lovable but project illwill in your writings-please stay calm.
Let us not ask anyone to leave this site. We should follow the example of the Mohd Rafi, who was the most humble and courteous person. Let Avi and Shankar have their say. One of these days, these people have to take the blinders off, and agree that Rafi was indeed the greatest. No amount of excuses such as Mohd Rafi sang more songs so his songs are more on the list. By a margin of 7 to 2, Rafi won against KK, and I don’t think he sang three times as many songs. Again, if Rafi sang more songs than KK then that is another indication why Rafi was greater than KK, otherwise why would he be given so many songs to sing, if he was not that good. You can’t have it both ways.
dear Rashid,
First of all, who are you to ask us to leave this site. If u don’t like, u r free to leave.
Even Rafi would be very sad to have fan like u who don’t pay respect to other legends.
Answer to ur questions: Why Rafi’s songs are more in the list.
7 songs are from Rafi and 2 from Kishore in the list.
Answer is
1. How many songs Rafi sang in his career?
2. How many song KISHORE sang in his caree?
Hope above 2 questions will have ur answers.
My dear friend Shankar,
Rafians only like good thing abt Rafi. They don’t want to face reality. Anmol always pretend that he knows music, He may know but he is 100% biased. In one blog he said, it is easy to sing Kishore song than Rafi.
I must say one thing, KK songs may look easy but Mr. Anmol, u can’t do justice to those simple song as kishore did. Many people tried and they lost their existance.
I don’t feel pain to sing “Chand mera dil”,”Raat ke humsafar” or “man tadpat hari darshan”. I feel very easy to sing. FYI all songs are sung by Rafi but yes there are tough songs sung by Rafi, same as Kishore.
Dear Anmol, I have seen Pt. Bhisen interview on Doordarshan long-long back and he respected only MANNA DEY as singer.
Mahendra Kapoor voice is use for nothing, he is as good as Narendra Chanchal, who can sing devotional song.
Kishore sang many devotional song but not in same style as Rafi and Mahendra Kapoor sang because Kishore believed in creating history.
I hope you have heard his songs in YAARANA, MAQSAD, KUNWARA BAAP. he sang song for lord SHIVA. I know u people will not agree but it is truth.
Few people say LP gave song to Mukesh because he was going through bad face in his life. HOw Rafians are consoling themselve, is very sad. You peole mean to say after singing 5-6 songs, Mukesh became rich. It is all KHAYALI PULAO.
Mukesh was Laxmikant Fav. and he always wanted Mukesh to sing song. That is why he sang all songs in MILAN, DHARTI KAHE PUKAR KE.
Hariharan sang song in RDB compostion because i feel it suit his voice. Answer to ur question why RDB asked Hariharan to sing devotional song instead of KISHORE.
Answer of ur question:
1. WHY LP asked Mukesh to sing devotional song in “MANCHALI”?
(As u people says KISHORE could not sing devotional,) Does it mean LP had more trust in MUKESH voice than Rafi?
2. WHY LP asked KISHORE to sing in “DO RAASTE” and “MEHBOOB KI MEHANDI” whereas all songs are sung by Rafi?
3. WHY LP let Mukesh to sing in “GORA aur KAALA” whereas all song were sung by Rafi?
I hope u have got my answer.
Today Pt. Shiv Chourasia, visited here and He said how innovative Kishore was in SILSILA during one wedding song.
Dear Prashant Veer, You are pretending you are KK fan but u don’t like anything against Rafi but you can say anything irrelavant against Kishore. Very good fan you are. Don’t write it again. If someone write in favor of KISHORE, you mean it molded story and same in favor of Rafi, you mean it genuine. You are not convincing by saying you are KK fan.
dear rashid khan and suhail ahmed ansari,
this is a public forum and we’re free to post here as we like. also, the title of the page itself says the rafi-kk saga.
when uneducated people like u speak shit about kk, we can’t just let it go.
so, sorry, as long as u guys keep talking bad about kk, we’ll keep posting here.