The Rafi-Kishore saga
The following article appeared in The Statesman,Calcutta, on Aug.7 th 2005. It will give more food for thought to the ongoing debate about the Rafi personality and magic – Mohan Flora .
Mohd. Rafi was the greatest playback singer, asserts Ranjan Das Gupta as he pays tribute on the melody kings 25th death anniversary. Rafi was a classically trained singer while Kishore was naturally endowed with excellent resonance. The latter was a versatile genius, singer, music director, actor, writer and director all rolled into one. Both were proficient singers but had separate individual styles.
In the 1950s Rafi literally ruled the roost. He was the most favoured singer for veteran composers like Naushad, S.D. Burman, Shanker Jaikishan, Madan Mohan while Kishore was preferred by S.D. Burman and Salil Choudhury who was playback mainly for Dev Anand and his own films. Rafi on the other hand could balance his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
It is an astonishing fact that O.P. Nayar used Rafi to sing for Kishore Kumar the unforgettable tune Man Mora Bawra in Ragini in 1957. Shanker Jaikishan also had Rafi to sing Ajab Hai Dastan in Shararat in 1958. Says record museum owner Vinod Santhalia, It is simply amazing. Imagine Mohd. Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films Kishore himself acted.
Shanker Jaikishan commented, No doubt Kishore Kumar is a good singer. He sang beautifully for me in Rangoli. But Ajab Hai Dastan was simply not Kishores cup of tea. The mukhdas and antaras required a singer of Rafis range and classical background.
Although Kishore Kumar felt bad about this, he could only marvel at Rafis brilliant rendering of the two songs. Rafi characteristically remarked, No one else except Kishore could sing Dukhi Man Mera in Funtoosh so well.
Salil Choudhury was not favourably inclined towards Rafi at one point of time, but even he was compelled to use Rafi for the unforgettable Tootey Huey Khuabo Nay in Madhumati and Koi Soney Ke Dil Wala in Maya and confess that Rafi was indeed peerless.
It is generally known that Rafi and Kishore went through a bad patch in their relationship. Yet it is also true that both liked and respected each other. S.D. Burman openly admitted to Kishore that the three solos in Guide by Rafi could not be matched by any singer. On Dev Anands special request, he composed the Kishore-Lata super hit duet Gata Rahe Mera Dil for Guide. Similarly, Rafis numbers in Teen Deviyan and the haunting duet with Lata Mangeshkar in Jewel Thief were far superior to the Kishore numbers in these films.
In the late 60s when R.D. Burman composed the melody for Tum Bin Jaaun Kahan in Pyar Ka Mausam, he experimented the same solo with both Rafi and Kishore. True, Kishore sang this number by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. But in the romantic number, Rafi scored over Kishore in melody.
The 60s was also considered Rafis decade though Kishore matured considerably as a singer during this period. The Jungle Mein Mangal number Woh Din Ke Baat Sharan Karo had both Rafi and Kishore together but is somehow not remembered that well. But Shanker Jaikishans Hanste Gate Jahan Se Guzar in Andaz by Rafi quite eclipsed Kishores entire Zindagi Ek Safar in 1971.
Madan Mohan also used both Rafi and Kishore in the song Yu Na Sharma for Parwana in 1972. Kishore sang the happy rendition for hero Navin Nischal. But there was Rafi again to do full justice to the Are Hansnewale, the melancholic aspect of the same song for Amitabh Bachchan.
In the 1970s the Kishore Kumar wave took the Hindi film music by storm and was backed by R.D. Burman. Some critics felt R.D was partial to Kishore and avoided using Rafi. The Rafi Kishore duet Yaadon Ki Barat from the film with the same title in 1973 turned out to be a superhit. But it cannot be categorised either as an exclusive Rafi or a Kishore gem for both sang in perfect harmony.
Subsequently, R.D. Burman opted for Rafi again after four years as no other singer could have rendered so skillfully Chand Mera Dil and Kya Hua in Hum Kisi Se Kum Nahin; that too in a film with many Kishore Kumar superhits like Mil Gaya and Aa Meri Jaan.
When Rafi sang Darde Dil for Laxmikant Pyarelal in Karz in1980 based on a single note, he proved melody was indeed God-gifted to him, remembers upcoming singer Sujan Bose. Kishores Ay Mere Umar Ke and Ek Hasina Thi could not touch that level. The same can be said for Rajesh Roshan’s Yarana where Rafi’s Aare Re Aisa Tarana completely surpassed Kishore’s Sara Zamana and Tere Jaisa.
Mohd. Rafi left for his heavenly abode on 31 July, 25 years ago. Remembers author Nabaran Bhattacharya, The photo of a silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
As Kishore himself said when Jagjit Singh criticised the Rafi gharana, How dare these so-called ghazal singers criticise an icon that Manna Dey, Mukesh and I dare not criticise. Rafi was unique.
dear roger fedrer ,
singers are not there to be handsome .god makes them so .tommorow if a man throws acid on ur face would u look handsome and asha also liked rafi and tell me when did she say that kisore was sexy rafi sahb body language and personality was better ……………. and he did not want sexy woman by his side because he was loyal to his wife . and u call ghim bald before saying so, please look at his young photographs
1he looks slim andn trim
2 with curly hair
if u look at a mans photo who is at his 50s he would not look handsome
look aT KISORES OLD PHOTOS HE LOOKS LIKE A …………….! RAFI SAHABS personality was better
dear avi
still could not answer what i asked. why did a big deal of music faternity concluded rafi as the best male singer ever. and do u think that u know music better than Great Manaday. No poor logic. and no Kashorian yoodling to hide the short commings and inabilities.
kk was great because he was a
bad singer
3rd class actor
and a bad composer ………………………………………………………………………………………………
and ediots like avi and anmol like him
please give me a break.ahh!
we want to pay respect to rafi sahab we dont want to insult him by idots such as avi , anmol and shanker .fine if u love kk but make ur own site and pay that guy tribute . he was a bad singer what do u mean if a person starts singing gilli gilli akka billi billi this makes no sence a 3rd grade singer with a 3rd grade voice
kk fans please oleave this site this site belongs to us mohd.rafi fans notfor u
dear Avi Both films were flopped not Mohd Rafi songs until today are famous.
Dear Fiends,
As we no there is everthing is money for film maker and for music director to be the best,as we know that Mohd Rafi he singed for c grade film maker and c grade music director and as I think for that the A grade film makers and music director they tried to put mohd Rafi away from big films because maybe they think that Mohd rafi was dengerous for them because maybe mohd rafi shange c grade to A grade,
please give list to KK films for c grade MD or C grade film makers.
You are fond of applicative knowledge Tim, and so am I. Recently Asha again grabs the opportunity to show how much she is biased towards Kishore. She says” Rafi used to be too busy in his work whereas Kishore was more entertaining”. Again by this statement we can thus decipher she is in no way bothered about the singing part it . She was more interested in Kishore- The Man.
Hi Avi,
Query – “Anmol and others, they always try to degrade Kishore. Kishore was not nominated before 69, does it mean he was not good during that period.
I belive he should have been nominated for “DOOR GAGAN KI CHHAOON ME†and “JHUMAROOâ€
Ans – We have to go by actual facts.
Query – “Anmol, U r comparing Sudesh Bhosale with Kishore. Why Sudesh did not become Kishore? Kishore was exceptional in this world so that he reached to that position.”
Ans – Sudesh Bhosale is not a singer. The criteria is who can replicate yoodeling and comical aspect of KK.
Query – “You are saying you have basic knowlesge in music, Can you yoodle? Can you sing a song which will directly touches the heart?
Don’t misunderstood, it is not personal question, its general question.”
Ans – Yoodle is part of Western music on doesn’t come under Indian Music. If I yoodle in front of any Pandit or Ustad, I should be ready to face a kick on my ASS. I sing many songs of all singers (I am not a professional) in gatherings or get togethers. People enjoy, so I assume that there is some melody in my voice.
Query – “Why not LP asked Rafi to sing “OM SHANTI OMâ€, “EK HASINA THIâ€? There are few things which can be done by experts. KISHORE n Rafi were expert in their own style.”
Ans – The above songs are within KK’s scale. But Dard-E-Dil is a ghazal, where Rafi will do proper justice.
Query – “Those who are really extra ordinary, they don’t require training, it is valid for any field.”
Ans – Such people fall in pride and ego. There is saying Knowlegde is power. People who have half knowlegde are always failures in life. SPB is also trained singer. Our focus is singing. Acting and Software are all together different areas to analyze with singing.
Query – “I think u forget Salil composition in “ANNADAATAâ€. KISHORE’ song was there. After Mere Apne song, Salil said something very great abt Kishore. I am sure you know it.”
Ans – I am aware Salil C spoken excellent words about KK, but after he never gave him any simple and excellent composition to sing. He used Mukesh and Yesudas for his songs. Hope you are aware of this.
” Manna atleast says something good about Rafi, Asha has her parcle of praises stored for Kishore”says Tim to me in the Manna Vs Rafi section.
But Tim, I am not too surprised.
For a moment forget about Asha- The Singer. Consider Asha -The citizen of India.
You must be knowing, ‘Jab ek ladki ek ladka ko apna dil deti hai, to woh admi bura que na ho,phir bhi she shes everything good in him. Aur agar use nahi cahti hai however good he is she spots a black mark in him.’
Dear Anmol,
I think u forget Salil composition in “ANNADAATA”. KISHORE’ song was there. After Mere Apne song, Salil said something very great abt Kishore.
I am sure you know it.
Dear Rafimyidol,
Good to read ur blog. You are really seems sound.
Anmol and others, they always try to degrade Kishore. Kishore was not nominated before 69, does it mean he was not good during that period.
I belive he should have been nominated for “DOOR GAGAN KI CHHAOON ME” and “JHUMAROO”
Anmol, U r comparing Sudesh Bhosale with Kishore. Why Sudesh did not become Kishore? Kishore was exceptional in this world so that he reached to that position.
You are saying you have basic knowlesge in music, Can you yoodle? Can you sing a song which will directly touches the heart?
Don’t misunderstood, it is not personal question, its general question.
Why not LP asked Rafi to sing “OM SHANTI OM”, “EK HASINA THI”? There are few things which can be done by experts. KISHORE n Rafi were expert in their own style.
Those who are really extra ordinary, they don’t require training, it is valid for any field.
There are few people who made their name without any basic training from different different fields.
1. KISHORE KUMAR / SPB
2. Bill Gates
3. Amitabh
Hi Shankar,
Since you have insisted to answer Rajan Parrikar theory, here are the answers.
AVOIDE THE EARLIER BLOG.
Query – “also, kk’s creativity is more clearly proved in the quality of his songs as a composer in hindi and bengali movies. he composed for very few films but in all the films, the songs were of very high quality. rafi never matched kk in this aspect.The truth of the matter is kk had the gift of music. he was born with it.”
Ans – How do we evaluate KK compositions are of high quality? There is no single nomination for his work as a composer. The detailed analysis we have already done.
Query – “musical gift or creativity – here i refer to the ability of the singer to add something of his own to the music directors tune and stamp his own personality on it. it is here that both rajan and myself put kk over rafi. rafi, for all his expertise, rarely added something of his own to a song. kk has many instances of doing so. his yodelling is the most obvious example. it’s easy for YOU and other rafi fans to dismiss yodelling as a noise but u cannot deny that in all his songs kk did the yodelling in PERFECT SUR.”
Ans – KK doesn’t fullfill the requirments of majority music composers as a singer, so he is left with no choice but to do some thing of his own. Any professional singer will never question a music composers work, he/she is supposed to sing the song the way it is to be sung. Rafi / Lata are ahead of every one here. This also has been discussed.
Query – “here it’s a matter of the kind of voice. now, kk’s voice is a classic baritone while rafi’s voice is quintissential tenor (if u don’t agree with this, u know nothing about music). so, rafi is more comfortable with high pitched songs (taar saptak) while kk is more comfortable with low pitched songs. it doesn’t mean that both are limited. rafi can definitely sing low pitched songs but he cannot sing as comfortably as kk just because kk’s voice (being a baritone) has more bass and can go lower than rafi. similarly, kk can sing high pitched songs but his baritone voice doesn’t allow him to go as high as rafi. this is a limitation of their voices and has nothing to do with their musical talents. for example, mahendra kapoor can go to higher pitch than any playback singer i heard.”
Ans – KK voice is not a classic baritone, it is Hemant Kumar to be more precise. Any singer who can sing High pitch songs with comfort, singing in any scale is not an issue for them. Since KK was an untrained singer, he was not comfortable with high pitch operation, but he had the capability. This has been explained by Prashant.
Query – “both kk and rafi were solid in this regard. music directors like khemchand prakash, husnlal-bhagatram, s.d.b, salil chowdhury etc. wouldn’t take kishore if he didn’t have perfect control over sur.”
Ans – SDB gave him only easy numbers to sing, Salil C was never comfortable with KK except for one song in Mere Apne. Same is the case with most MDs for 50s and 60s.
Query – “Exactly the same could be said of any of the other film singers. To wit, their songs are not very difficult to reproduce in the “strictly technical senseâ€, on a note-for-note basis. Any reasonably-trained singer should be able to accomplish this with a few iterations. The distinction of course is in the delivery, in the originality and nuance of musical expression with all that it entails.”
Ans – Most trained singers fail when they try to replicate classical numbers sung by Manna Day, Rafi or Lata, because following the discipline in classical singing apart from talent is not part of everyone’s personilty and body language. It was God gifted to Rafi, Manna Dey, Lata, Asha, Mahendra K, Mukesh, Talat. But KK fails here miserably, therefore couldn’t contribute much in the first 2 decades.
Query – “Now, it’s one thing to just make your voice crack all over the place, which many people do and call it yodelling. Kishore Kumar, on the other hand, had this absolutely UNCANNY ability to yodel with wonderful precision – listen to (so many of his songs, but especially in) Jhumroo, or his antara in “Chala Jaata Hoon…†”
Ans – This point has also been discussed eailer. KK compensates his high pitch operation with yoodel.
Query – “Seen in this light, Kishore Kumar is very hard to replicate. For the spontaneity that lit his rendition cannot be acquired through formal education or technical mastery. It has to be part of one’s inherent personality. Furthermore, complexity in music is only one factor and is neither necessary nor sufficient for it to be beautiful and/or everlasting. The number of men who are really adept at something is very small indeed.”
Ans – Certianly for doing Yoodleing and comical things in singing, one doesn’t need training. Any professional mimickry artist of the calibre of Sudesh Bhonsle will easily replicate KK’s yoodeling and comical stuff without any difficulty.
Query – “here’s what another knowledgeable singer had to say about rafi’s classical prowess, and “man tarpat hari darshanâ€. for your kind info, he’s a manna dey fan and not a kk fan.
Take Rafi’s “Man tarpat hari darshan koâ€. All is bearable till he starts his alaaps (if you can call it that) “Tumhare dwaar khada yeh jogiâ€, and then some horrible alaap ensues- he shoots off like a rocket where he should have gone on slowly, and the effect is jarring in its extreme form. To this day I close the door when someone begins to play that “classical number†”
Ans – If a singer or a composer is saying so then he/she is questioning Naushad’s work. Many such singers might have asked Naushad for such adjustments, no wonder Naushad gave majority of his compositions to Rafi. Rafi will sing anything the way it is given to him. Plus the song is remembered till date.
Query – “or his antara in “Chala Jaata Hoon…â€
You know how people talk about basketball players and their ability to
“turn on a dime†referring to their ability to maneuver and suddenly come to a stop without losing control – that’s what I think of when I listen to that. We talk about KK not having a classical base, but one of its most important parts, knowledge of and mastery over “surâ€, KK had. If you’re going to yodel, you still need to do it in tune, without the pitch spraying all over the place. The fact is that the songs he was given to sing by and large do NOT generally reflect any necessity of classical training.”
Ans – KK certainly had the classical base, but not the discipline to follow it like other singers. Every thing while singing a song has to be done is tune, whether it a small commmet/conversation or a laughter or as a matter of fact any thing. Yodel is no big deal as such.
Query – “also, why do u care whether i’m rajan parrikar or not ? if u wish to discuss something about music, please reply logically to all the points that i or he made. why should u bother whom he calls pandit or ustad? ”
Ans – If musically illetrate people like Avi and Shankar say so we have no issues, but if a person like Rajan who claim to be recognized classical music experts, uses words like Pandit & Ustad cheaply then they are subjected to prosecution. Hounours like Pandit & Ustad in the field of music are equivilent to Doctrate in any other field.
Query – “you claim to possess lot of knowledge about music but u didn’t answer rajan parrikar’s posts. why ? bcos u don’t know ANYTHING about music. u just claim to have learnt classical music but i think u r lying. if u really know something about music, pls answer me on the following points (which rajan parrikar put forth so well) : ”
Ans – Any person who knows the basics of music will differ from Rajan. I am not an expert on classical, but I know the basics, plus I had the previlage to be trained under Pandits & Ustads.
Query – “You only see what you like or what you want to see. Whatever Bappida said abt that participant in SA RE GA MA was 100% correct. One participant sang “O manjhi Re†and other sang Rafi’s song from “Sangharshâ€, Bappi praised them. I am sure you would have managed to skip that episode. ”
Ans – As a music lover I give priority to people who respect disipline, i.e. give importance to training. For that I respect Prashant also since he too is of the same view.
Query – “well, well, looks like the debate has no signs of subsiding. i’ve been going through similar debates on RMIM, and it’s disappointing to see people with no knowledge of music actually arguing foolishly without any basis to back-up their statements.
This is an excellent post written by Rajan Parrikar, who is very knowledgeable in Hindustani Classical Music and who actually accompanied Ali Akbar Khan to many concerts. You can see his excellent music page here: ”
Ans – Here the question is what is your own level of knowledge in music. If you are a music illetrate than how are you so sure about Rajan.
My interest in hindi film music began with listening to Rafi saab’s songs on the first audio cassette that my mother created from songs on “vividh bharathi”. My only regret is that my interest in hindi film music didn’t develop until after I entered my teens, by which time he was no more.
Since I got to listen to songs mostly on all india radio and later Doordarshan (Rangoli and to a lesser extent, Chitrahaar), I developed an interest for songs sung by various artistes (Rafi, Kishore, Mukesh, Mahendra Kapoor, Manna Dey, Hemant Kumar, Lata, Asha, Suman etc etc). I have to admit that even though I enjoy songs that appeal to me irrespective of singer, the ones that I truly come back to over and over are the ones by Rafi & Kishore.
I have a special place in my heart for Rafi because of his talent and the articles that I have read about his personality. That does not reduce the fondness I have for Kishore’s songs in any form. I read all posts trying to compare these 2 and immediately the futility of the exercise strikes me. Why try to pick one when you can enjoy both? In my mind, these were 2 extremely gifted singers who had different styles of singing.
Again, based on what I have read, I can’t help but imagine that were they alive at this time and reading these posts, they would be standing next to each other arms on each other’s shoulders and having a hearty laugh at the exercise of trying to compare them and prove points 🙂
At the end of it all, these people have left their mortal bodies and have taken their rightful places in the pantheon of immortal artistes having left behind their works of art for generations to cherish. Blessed were their lives. We are talking about people who have left legacies that I personally would pay an arm and a leg for (in fact for a fraction of their talents and their legacies).
So, these back-and-forth arguments laced with personal attacks (some invoking their positions of power in professional lives and others claiming to be know-alls in music) come across as a bit pointless and much rather as exercises to validate their personal interests and beliefs.
Chill out… and listen to ‘Salamat rahe dostana hamara’ – the duet that these 2 sang, that readily comes to mind.. or for that matter, your personal favourites…
Rafi Saab – thanks for having graced the music world for so long (even then feels short).. and the same to Kishore-da too.
Dear Prashant Veer,
Thanx for missunderstanding me. I can’t help there.
Dear Vicky,
I also like to listen both of them but Rafians don’t accept Kishore and problem starts there. The analysis what you have done is not relavant but you have done a good job.
Dear Unknown,
Both films were flopped. NoOne accept Shammi Kapoor as actor, he was earlier version of Jeetendra (Jumping Jack).
Dear Ali,
I like “ek masoom nazuk si ladki” song but not great but i hates off to KAMAL AMHORI for writing such a great lyrics.
My Fav. Few great Romantic songs sung by Rafi among many..
1. Patta Patta Buta Buta, Haal hamara jaane hai..
Jaane na jaane ke julmi na jaane…
2. Tumne Kisi ki jaan ko jaate hue dekha hai
Woh dekho mujhse ruthkar meri jaan ja rahi hai
3. Tere Mere Sapne ab ek rang hai
4. Ke Jaan chali jaaye jiya nahi jaaye
5. Na Jhatako Zulf se Paani, E moti phoot jaayenge
I know Rafi can’t yoodle so i listen his best work 🙂
I have already posted my comments in last blog on great MDs, pls. go through if you have time.
Dear Avi,
Thanks for your comments, you have proved that you prefer to be indisciplined. Enjoy more blows from Rafians.
dear avi,
who is best batsman in the indian team at present? its ‘rahul dravid'(pls dont say virender sehwag or saurav ganguly).for all my love n respect n admiration for the grt ‘sachin tendulkar’ i must admit tht after following cricket for more than 15 years never came across a batsman as dependable as ‘dravid’ . ‘dilip kumar’ reigned whn there was sitff competition from ‘raj kapoor’ n ‘dev anand'(the trio was named as trimurti) ‘amitabh’ ruled whn no one else existed(rajesh khanna was down in dumps after ’75 , sanjeev kumar for all his talent was never accepted as a superstar while vinod khanna was finding himself with the help of osho rajneesh!!) sry i forgot mithun da(called as poor man’s amitabh) but was he a serious contender ever? i doubt.narayan murthy is like rafisaab humble n hardworking while ambanis r flashy!! same can be said abt azim premji humble n hardworking(wont say anythng abt Mittal as he is frm my state only.but rs 240 crore wedding sounds too much i believe) anyways just wanted to answer mr avi!!no point in rpoving who is better as i like to listen to both of them!!
dear hassan,
i’m happy that finally u have tried to discuss logically.
rafi can definitely sing low-pitched songs pretty well. but he cannot sing as low or as comfortably in low-pitch as kk. his voice is not made for low-pitched singing.
in western classical music, rafi’s voice is called a “tenor”, which means his max. comfort range is in madhya and taar saptak (or medium to high pitch). kk’s voice is called a “baritone”, which means it has more bass, and comfort range is in madhya and mandra saptak (medium and low pitch).
now kk can also sing high-pitch very well, like in “jab dard nahin tha”, “ek hasina thi” etc. but he’s not as comfortable as rafi.
similarly, rafi can sing low-pitched songs like u listed above but he’s not as comfortable as kk.
if u really want to see comfort in low-pitch, listen to the following kk songs:
# koi hota jisko apna – at the ending of the “mukhda” like ” … paas nahin tho door hi hota LEKIN KOI MERA APNA”, he goes very low
# panthi hoon mai is path ka – at the beginning of each antara, he sings very low for a long time
# pyaar hamein kis mod pe le aaya from “satte pe satta” – once again the whole mukhda, especially the ending of the mukhda “… mod pe LE AAYA”, he goes soooo low, it’s difficult.
we should understand that it’s just the characteristic of their voices.
Dear Avi please listen to this song alone when u r in romantic mood “ek masoom nazuk si ladki”as said by Mr Hassan,There are many singer who singed Mohd Rafi songs but I never listen some one sing this song!!!!I hope u listen to Mohd Rafi Yoodlee.
Dear Avi,Is there award given in name of SJ or Madan Mohan or LP or Naushad Ali?but there is in name of RD Is it mean for u dear Avi that RD is more greater than these MD.I know u r answer will be that RD is the best MD over all Music directors but I want answer from u?????If u go for award I think SJ had 8 and LP had 8 if i am not wrong.
We Mohd Rafi fans have many cards to show but u kk u don’t have as said Sir Nair
Dear shanker,
what is low tune? when u say high tune I remember mohd rafi when he sing (ab to neer bahaley) which is shouting in sur and in which Rafi is most famous what I believed.
And about low tune(Its kind of singing lorry to some one to make him relax or seleep)now take these songs for mohd rafi which I think they are low tunes, and tell me kk have more lower than these.
#aaj kal mein dal gaya din huwa tamaam
#main gaon tum sojao
#kahin ek masoom nazuk si ladki
#paon padun tore sham
#pukarta chala hoon main
#aja re aa zara lehra ke aa zara
#dhalti jaye raat keh le dil ki baat
#meri duniya mein tum aayi
#tumse kaise kahoon ke mujhe tumse pyar hogaya hai
#meri mohabbat jawan rahegi
#chanda ko doondh ne sabi tare nikal pade
#hum ko mita sake ye zamane mein dum nahin
#qamar bandh huwe chalne ko yahan sab yaar
#mujhe lechalo aaj us gali mein(this song make me a real fan of mohd rafi), my mind so relaxed when I heared this song my first time when I was away from my family)u must hear this song when ur free because this song needs patient to listen and to sing .
maybe I am wrong and these are not low tune songs,If not pls could u explain for me what is low tune?
teen kanastar peet peet kar gala pad kar chilana
yaar mere mat bura maan ye gana hai na bajana hai,
hello friends,
Ijust come back from my leave.
dear sagar,
I couldnt able to find jugnu,I lost it (sorry).
Dear Nair and abay,
Irealy enjoyed ur post.
God bless MOHD RAFI.
Dear Avi u said that all are great SJ,Mahan mohan,Rd but I want ask who was the best?Do u think that RD better than others If not why they made award on RD name?!!
dear Avi,thanks 4 answering also thanks for Kk better actor than Shammi but what we know about Shammi that he was super star of his time because of Mohd Rafi.Songs which singed by Mohd Rafi for kk i think that songswas hit not as u said
dear avi
what about the latest ranking of the greatest 20 indian songs published in outlook india. u know Muhad Rafi’s song is selected as the greatest song in indian music history. the sond is MAN RE TU KAHEY NA.
the second song is also a memorable one from Rafi DIN DHAL JAYE.
Also on second Number is again a great number from Rafi i.e. TERE MERE SAPNEY AUB.
and this list is prepared by the 30 persons who are considered the masters in differen departemetns of music.
Both Muhammad Rafi and Lata are concluded in this ranking as the greatest singers in indian film history.
just visit the website
http://www.outlookindia.com/full.aspfodname=20060626&fname=ABestSongs&sid=2
And read the latest article by manaday. he is so much admiring noushad sahib only and only b/c he made rafi known to us. he also commited that m.rafi is far better than anyother singer. so do u think that u know music better than the great legend manaday?
In another blog, a Rafian – Abhay – has portrayed the Rafi-Kishore debate in a hilarious yet truthful way. Please read it yourself (Great work Abhay, Congratulations!)
KKFan : It is obvious that KK was the best singer! Better than
your Rafi !!
RafiFan : (perplexed) Obvious ? but how ?
KKFan : Of course. He kicks ass. And mightyly.
RafiFan : (still perplexed) But how does that say anything about
singing abilities ?
KKFan : I mean he pours emotions in his songs.
RafiFan : (slightly interested) Can you elaborate please ?
KKFan : Naturally. The way he laughs in between, his famous
yodeling, the way he could say “kukru kuku” etc.
RafiFan : But what about singing. What you said above, can be done
in a better way by Johny Lever. What about SINGING ?
KKFan : (annoyed) Come now. Have you ever seen him singing ? He
really used to dance while recording his songs.
RafiFan : But I prefer to HEAR somebody sing, rather than SEE him
singing. What about his singing abilities ?
KKFan : He was a genius. He could act, he could dance, he could
direct movies. He was ultimate. He had 4 wives, you know !
RafiFan : But my dear freind, let’s discuss SINGING please.
KKFan : You don’t understand anything about music. Your Talat
had a palindromic name.
RafiFan : (??) But I am a Rafi fan. I don’t care how anybody spells
a name. I would like to know why you think KK was better.
KKFan : Don’t dare you start a flame war ! Our KKFanClub has a lot
more members. You will be blasted off the net.
RafiFan : (amused) But let’s just discuss. eg. How good was KK while
singing classical based songs ?
KKFan : Ah ! I knew you would come to this point. We are well aware
that KK didn’t have a formal training.
RafiFan : But is it Rafi’s fault ?
KKFan : (trying to think) No .. I mean .. Yes. No. No. But he was
good in every other aspect. And why should everybody sing
those Naushad songs ? KK was more lively singer, he could
put emotions into every song. Remember that “kukru kuku” ?
RafiFan : (exasperated) There is no hope. I give up.
KKFan : You see, you see. I knew I would win. You Rafi fans have
no point on which you can argue. Ha ha ha, KK the greatest !
(shouts … shouts and just shouts … )
So dear KKfan, if you have anything more than this … 🙂 🙂
Dear MohanFlora,
i am not imposing my view on you but i am telling my view against ur comments. That’s it.
Dear Avi,
Why are you trying to impose your views on us? Agreed, you prefer KK over Rafi. Okay, that’s your preference but do not try to convince others to do the same. You may cry, rant, shout and irritate but your views will have no effect on me or,for that matter,on the others you are trying to impress. You like KK, I like Rafi. Let it remain at that. Why are you making such a big deal about it?
Dear Unknown,
I am very sorry to say that you don’t have any idea on hindi music or film industry.
Kishore Kumar as an actor, especially as comedian, far and far better than Shammi.
Tell me one memorable role done by Shammi Kapoor but i can tell abt Kishore.
1. PADOSAN…Amazing even mehmood and Sunil Dutt acepted him as real “GURU”
2. HALF TICKET
Rafi sang for him in 2 movies but both were super flopped.
Dear Unknown, you are very much correct that Naushad is great name without KK and O P Nayyar without Lata. I said many time that singer is just MDs katputali.
Mds select singers based on their comfort as Naushad worked with Rafi, RDb with KK.
There is one song in “Pagla kahin ka” sung by Manna dey whereas all songs were sung by Rafi. I feel Rafi could have sung the same song, may be not as good as Manna dey. Boss, If composition is good and singer do 80% justice to the song, it will hit.
I rated KISHORE higher because he converted many ordinary songs to great songs which is not in case of Rafi.
Dear Ali, I believe SJ, SDB, LP and RDB are great composers,I hope i have answered ur question.
dear Avi,Answer honest how is the best music director in bollywood?u don’t thing that SJ or Madan Mohan or Naushad Ali are better than RD?
why there is award on RD name????i hope u will answer but if u not I will understant that u have no answer.
Dear Avi,what i saw at Radio and TV at 31/7 what they said about Mohd Rafi they never will say that about KK.
About Naushad I hope u read what Naushad said about KK,KK said to Naushad that I want to sing for u why u(Naushad)don’t give songs and Naushad answer was my music not for you(KK) u can’t sing under my music.
yes on the TV Amit Kummar made a program on Zee TV where he can’t sing Mohd Rafi songs and after that he close that program,
what I know out of India there is mostly Mohd Rafi songs on Radio.
Dear Avi Naushad is a great name in bollywood without KK and O P Nayar is great without queen Lata . please give one name who is great without Mohd Rfai voice?????
Dear Avi it is ok when u said that u like KK more than Mohd Rafi and he is better singer than Mohd Rafi only for u but for the world,
Dear Avi in the North of India there china they don’t like Indain songs but east or west or South of India they mostly like Mohd Rafi than there local singer.Mohd Rafi best singer in Pakistan he is not Pakistani if I am not wrong iu think like that dear Avi in this case I feel so sorry,sorry for saing that because there is no other thing can be as I think.
As human Mohd Rafi was better human as KK,Yes as actor KK was better acot because Mohd Rafi singer not actor as I think if KK used Mohd Rafi voice as actor I think today we know kk a great actor as Shammi K.
dear Avi please compare KK songs on KK and Mohd Rafi songs on KK or Shammi as u like.
we miss u Mohd Rafi
Dear Unknwon,
I understood ur mean. I hope u listen Radio and watch TV.
At least from today start counting the no. of KISHORE’s songs and Rafi’s songs played.
Kishore is far ahead whether it is Fm Radio or TV. You can’t get better evidence than this.
There are few people who claim themselve musically sound, they only say KISHORE is not good.
There are better proven music known person never said anything against him, Not even Naushad. He said KISHORE is exceptionally talented in ZEE CINEMA interview.
dear Avi u respect Mohd Rafi!!!!!!!!
Dear Avi We are not speaking about that u like he is the best,I like my father it not mean that he is the best in world.
Please answer the Q from Music lover,we don’t say that kk is bad only we say the true what all world say not one or two MD said.
I hope u understant what i mean
dear Prashant,
I am very sad to read ur comments on RDB.
You said “it is conspiracy of RD Burman to eliminate Rafi completely”. It is baseless statement.
Why should RDb ask KISHORE to sing for his composition if Rafi could have done more justice to same compositions? Who is there in this world doesn’t want to get fame for his work.
Why you forgot that Rafi was RDB’s first choice till’68. Few RDB compostion for Rafi
1. The Train
2. Caravan
3. Pyar Ka Mousam
4. Teesari Manzil and many more…
After Padosan, RDB realized KISHORE’s real potential though KISHORE sang for him earlier in BHOOT BANGALA. RDB knew that KISHORE could execute more than what he expected.
Rafi again came in the limelight after “HUM KISI SE KAM NAHI”. It was RDB’s composition. Here i must say that Rafi was lucky because “HUM KISI SE KAM NAHIn” and “AMAR AKBAR ANTHONY” both are multi-starrer movie. Rafi managed to sing for 2nd Hero like TARIQ SHAH and Rishi Kapoor in those movies. Of course I admire Rafi for his work from 77-till his last breath. BUt KISHORE was going very very strong that time.
If you know the history then you can’t deny it.
Dear Prashant,
RAFI
is like DILIP KUMAR / RAHUL DRAVID / Narayan Murthy-Premjee
KISHORE
is like AMITABH BACHHAN / TENDULAKAR / Dhirubhai Ambani-Laxmi Mittal.
I have mentioned 3 names from 3 different categories/fields where one group is technically sound but other group steals the show anytime.
Hope it will help you to differentiate them.
dear Prashant,
first of all, We are not guest because i am sure i would never be lesser if you want me to talk on Rafi’s song. I respect him very well and he is one of my fav. but i like KISHORE more. I can listen KISHORE hours and hours.
Once again, Training will make you perfect but there are few exception who doesn’t require training but stil they can deliver things better than trained guy and KISHORE falls under that category.
I don’t want to talk on AMIT. It is you people who roam around the bush. Here we are talking abt KISHORE and RAFI, not abt AMIT and others.
I still feel Bappi is good music composer. You wrote abt Anand-Milind(QSQT), Do you know where he is now?
ON SAAGAR,
I replied SAAGAR because you people(RAFIANS) not stopping him. It was required otherwise he’ll keep writing all nonsense things.
Dear Avi,
These world is full of people with countless numbers of attitudes and natures. We can’t fight like fools with every one. We can only discipline ourselves. If Sagar has written harsh comments on you, then I would call you even worst, seeing the type of language you have used. After seeing so harsh criticizm, you are still here, then I will say your parents never taught you the meaning of self respect.
Rafi is like Amitabh Bachchann. If using Amitabh if the film flops then it is not his fault. If you recall Amitabh also went a bad phase in the late 80s, but came back in 90s. Again he goes through a bad phase in late 90s, but again fights back through KBC. Similarly if Rafi sings a bad song, which I don’t think so it is the fault of the music director. Rafi sang for many below rated music directors who hardly gave music in 1 or 2 films. Rafi could have avoided such tunes, but as I mentioned he was basically a very humble people who looked for the good of every one.
Again Anmol has mentioned in his writtings that classical singing is not KK’s cup of tea, same thing this person Rajan Parrikar also mentions that KK was fit to sing only Bhoomchika Songs in 50s, since his voice is not mature, bullshit! I don’t agree with this theory at all. In young age many singers like Rafi, Mukesh & Mahendra K had a different voice as compared to 70s and 80s. If one listens to Rafis classical numbers of Baiju Bawra in 50s and the one he sang at the Doordarshan in 70s there is a lot of difference. Voice changes with age, this is the case with all singers, even with Lata also.
You have mentioned in your blog that Anmol should start watching SA RE GA MA. He has given his view, on which you accusse him of skippping episodes. Personal I don’t consider Bappi Lahiri a music director, though he is from music family. He was incompetent, because after QSQT success he didn’t survive with new leage of Music diectors like Anand-Milind, Nadeem Sharvan. But LP and Rajesh Roshan servived.
There could be people with or without music knowledge. But the question is how much you and your collegue Shankar know about music. Nothing !!!. When you know nothing about music how come you & shankar are so sure whether this person Rajan Parrikar is correct or not. Possibly Anmol is stressing you to undergo training and learn music.
KK never ruled the 70s, it is conspiracy of RD Burman to eliminate Rafi completely. He has used Manna Dey instead of Rafi in many films, Sita Aur Geeta and Sholay are examples. He used Rafi mainly in Nasir Hussian films in the Rajesh KK era. There also he did many nasty tricks like suppressing Rafi voice in KK-Rafi duets. He also suppressed Rafi’s sad version of ‘Tum Bhin Jaun Kahan’ in the audio release. This is the reason I hate RD Burman. Since KK was not trained he is himself responsible for the initial 19 yrs, I mentioned earlier. People like Naushad , Madan Mohan are perfectionists, who do not compromise a single inch. Both you and shankar don’t undertsand what perfectists are. There are few examples I will state.
In one recording of Naushad there were more than 12 retakes. Lata was singing in the recording. Naushad was not satisfied with the outcome. After few more retakes Lata fainted. When she gained senses, she again resumed recording. Similarly during the recording of the a song from Mera Saaya ‘Nino Mein Badaraa Chae’, Madan Mohan was so furious that he broke the glass partition and fired the musician left & right who was playing off key. There is another exmaple where SD Burman fired Asha Bhosale during the recording of Bandhini for the song “Ab Ke Baras Bite Bhaiya’ saying ‘tera koyi bhai nahi kya’ to bring the best out of her. I heard this in an Asha Bhosale interview. No wonders their works are fresh till date.
As KK fans we are like guests in this website and we should behave like guests not like owners. We you want to fight with Rafi fans go common forums which are not dedicated to a particular singer as such.
As a KK fan I am happy Amit Kumar takes up training, there will be no bad patch in the KK gharana in history any more.
Dear MohanFLora,
As you said Rafi composed music for ghazals, you are right. There are many singers who composed music like Lata (2-3 Marathi movie) and Mukesh (private album, Ramayana)but who remembered.
Pls. watch “DOOR GAGAN KI CHHAON ME”, Its a legendary work and noone could expected those time that one comedian can delivered such intense performance.
Kishore’s composition will be remembered till music exist in the world.
Dear MohanFlora,
Kishore was the only person who was master in all.
His composition, Direction, Production is matchless. You can compare his work in “DOOR GAGAN KI CHHAO ME”, “JHUMAROO”, “DOOR WADIYON ME” and “DOOR KA RAHI” to any great work.
Music compostion what he gave in those film was matchless.
Pls. listen JHUMAROO, and other 2 mentioned above. They were fantastic and musically acclaimed work.
Can’t you admire his work for following songs..
1. KHUSHI DO GHADI KI MILE NA MILE
2. KOI HUMDUM NA RAHA
3. KOI LAUTA DE MERE BEETE HUE DIN
4. PYAAR AJNABI HAI JAANE KAHAN SE AAYE
5. PANTHI HU ME US PATH KA ANT NAHI JISKA…
All above songs are matchless and it can be placed in the best.
And in Singing, still there are endless debate on who is the best KISHORE or Rafi.
It is a clear evidence that he was master of all.
There is a problem with you people who could not see or feel the ledendary work.
Dear Shankar,
Agreed that KK was talented. He was a good actor, music director and singer but he was no master. Rafi was a master singer !
For your information, Rafi has composed music for a private album(ghazals) and it is in its own league. It was composed under a pseudonymn. Another clip taken from the last interview Rafi gave to Star & Style sometime before his passing away:-
In fact, producer-director S. Mukherjee had asked me to compose music for one of his films, sometime back. I turned down his offer because it is my firm belief that one should be perfect in only one field. Look at Talat Mahmood. He took up acting and after he could click neither as a singer nor as an actor.
The late Mukeshbhai took up production and lost heavily when the films he made flopped. If I were to agree to compose music for film today, the other music directors would start feeling that I might steal their tunes for my own films and hence they might even stop assigning me the job of singing for them.
dear mohanflora,
i am also rafi fan but when so many people attack kk, i get angry. also, i appreciate rafi as much as u do but the only difference between us is i don’t think rafi was so much better than kk as u guys seem to think.
i think kk was easily as talented as rafi. in fact kk was more naturally music oriented, as proved by his excellent compositions. for all their classical training, sonu nigam, shailendra singh, anwar, or even rafi, none of them composed music. even if they did, they didn’t compose hit songs like kk did.
dear anmol singh,
it doesn’t matter whether rajan parrikar posted here or not. and i don’t care even if he his knowledge of classical music is less than 0 (though i’m pretty sure he’s much more knowledgeable than you).
once again u’ve disappointed me. u have not replied logically to even ONE point that i made in my last post.
also, why do u care whether i’m rajan parrikar or not ? if u wish to discuss something about music, please reply logically to all the points that i or he made. why should u bother whom he calls pandit or ustad ?
it’s not a question of whose opinion it is, the question is whether there is a valid point to be discussed or not. and i think rajan parrikar had some very valid points.
if u have anything to argue against my or his comments, pls put them forward. let’s argue logically.
otherwise, let’s just accept that there is nobody here capable of arguing logically.
Naushad’s three favourite songs
Picking the top tunes from the repertoire of such a legendary composer is difficult. I made an attempt though.
One: Aiye Husn Zara Jaag Tujhe Ishq Jagaye from Mere Mehboob.
The song is played when Rajendra Kumar drops by Ashok Kumar’s residence. His sister Sadhna — who looks gorgeous in the film — is asleep in the other room when he sits on the piano and begins crooning. Kumar pleads: Aiye Husn Zara Jaag Tujhe Ishq Jagaye, Badle Meri Taqdeer Jo Tu Hosh Mein Aaye. (Oh beautiful woman, please wake up. My fate will change once you do).
A must hear.
Two: Mere Mehboob: Title track.
An all-time favourite for the romantic in search of their love. The song is about 5 minutes long, with almost no accompanying music. Rafi’s voice is enchanting and, with no major instruments playing, the camera catches Sadhna and Rajendra Kumar, who is singing on stage at a college function.
Naushad obviously knew when to use instruments and when not to.
Three: Madhuban Mein Radhika Nache: Kohinoor.
Simply beyond compare. There are rare examples of a musician blending a classical song so well in commercial cinema. This track also tells us why Mohammad Rafi is one of the greatest singers of Indian cinema. Few others could touch the depth he did, and it is all because of Naushad.
The lyrics then deviate to: Mridang baje titakitadhum titakitadhum ta ta. Naushad made Rafi sing these lines in one breath. Go, listen.
Snippets from the net-mohanflora
Dear Admin,
I have not said anything against Rafi or Rafians. I replied SAAGAR for his nonsense comments.
Hi Shankar,
If Rajan Parrikar wants to join the forum he is invited we will reply him, you need not be his advocate. On your request I went through his profile, I have observed words like PANDIT being used very loosily which as I mention earlier is a very serious voilation of musical ethics and practices. Therefore we doubt his knowledge also. We don’t use words like USTAD for Rafi and Naushad also, since they are not specilists of pure classical music.
As an exmaple I will tell in todays time there are many spiritual Gurus, who claim to be Godmen. Very few are genuine, but majority are involved in sex scandles and links with corrupt politicians. There are blind followers who fall prey easily.
If you see the original article accuses Jagjit Singh to have critisized Rafi. So we have found out with invidence that it is incorrect.
Therefore as I adviced you earlier, take admission in a musical institution and learn the basics od music first. As our friend Prashant has mentioned about Amit Kumar who is training under Pt Sharma.
Hi,
What others have to say about Rafi vs Manna Dey is besides the point when the great Manna Dey himself has umpteen times said that even though Rafi was less classically trained than him, he(Manna Dey) was no match for Rafi in their duets- and this holds true when you hear the songs.
I am getting bored by the same old arguments and comments. Please serve something better and with more variety.
While browsing, I came upon this clip, which might help in cooling some of the bloggers!
If Guru Dutt had been a software consultant in the US, this might have been his tune.
The following should be sung to the tune of an old Hindi classic song sung by late Mohammed Rafi — Yeh Duniya Agar Mil Bhi Jayaye to kya hai…
Yeh document, yeh meetings, yeh features ki duniya,
Yeh insaan ke dushman, cursors ki duniya,
Yeh deadlines ke bhooke, management ki duniya,
Yeh product agar ban bhi jaaye to kya hai?
Yahaan ek khilona hai programmer ki hasti,
Yeh basti hai murda bug-fixers ki basti,
Yahaan par to raises hai, inflation se sasti,
Yeh review agar ho bhi jaaye to kya hai?
Har ek keyboard ghayal, har ek login pyaasi,
Excel mein uljhan, winword mein udaasi,
Yeh office hai ya aalame microsoft ki,
Yeh release agar ho bhi jaaye to kya hai?
Jalaa do ise, phoonk do yeh monitor,
Mere saamne se hataa do yeh modem,
Tumahaara hai tumhi sambhaalo ye computer,
Yeh product agar chal bhi jaaye to kya hai?
here’s what another knowledgeable singer had to say about rafi’s classical prowess, and “man tarpat hari darshan”. for your kind info, he’s a manna dey fan and not a kk fan.
Rafi was better than Manna Dey in certain categories, but Manna Dey outshone him in classical nos. It shows up in their duets where Manna Dey does the difficult taans cnsistently, and rafi just somehow keeps pace. What Rafi has and Manna Dey doesn’t have is a more smooth mellifluous voice. But Manna Dey’s superior command over execution of difficult parts is, I thought till today, obvious.
Take Rafi’s “Man tarpat hari darshan ko”. All is bearable till he starts his alaaps (if you can call it that) “Tumhare dwaar khada yeh jogi”, and then some horrible alaap ensues- he shoots off like a rocket where he should have gone on slowly, and the effect is jarring in its extreme form. To this day I close the door when someone begins to play that “classical number”
To give you a song in the same raag Malkauns to contrast, try
Manna Dey’s ” Radha cholechhe mukh ti ghuraaye, baaje shyamero banshori” and you should see the difference. I don’t know whether he was utilised enough in Bangla films or not, but this piece is definitely a good song as well as a good rendition. I don’t know if Manna Dey did much of raag Prodhan but his superiority over Rafi in terms of class. ability should not be questioned.
Dear Shankar,
I have never criticized KK. I am a KK fan,too. Just because I prefer Rafi over KK does not make me a lesser fan of KK than you. The only difference between you and me is that I am flexible whereas you are stiff in your preferances. Also, Rajan Parrikar may be a great fellow for you but he is a non-entity for the majority of the people. Finally, it is good to see you toning down.
Thanx!
here’s something which none of u responded to. this was an answer by rajan parrikar. if u guys really know something about music, argue logically without starting personal attacks on me or on rajan parrikar.
>Couldn’t resist the temptation to join in:
>KK was a very good singer though only for light songs, fun-n-frolic >variety or those requiring simple musical exposition and little vocal >gymnastics.
>To his credit he sang with emotion and there was something about the >timbre of his voice that made his songs find their way to our hearts. >However, musically speaking none of his songs are such that they are >not reproducible. I mean in the strictly technical sense. They may not >have the same effect when sung by someone else but by no means were >any of his songs difficult to sing.
rajan parrikar replies:
Exactly the same could be said of any of the other film singers. To wit,
their songs are not very difficult to reproduce in the “strictly technical
sense”, on a note-for-note basis. Any reasonably-trained singer should be
able to accomplish this with a few iterations. The distinction of course is
in the delivery, in the originality and nuance of musical expression with
all that it entails. Seen in this light, Kishore Kumar is very hard to
replicate. For the spontaneity that lit his rendition cannot be acquired
through formal education or technical mastery. It has to be part of one’s
inherent personality. Furthermore, complexity in music is only one factor
and is neither necessary nor sufficient for it to be beautiful and/or
everlasting. The number of men who are really adept at something is very
small indeed. The number who are original is a very tiny minority. It is
primarily the latter attribute that recommends Kishore Kumar.
dear prashant veer, mohanflora, and other rafi fans,
it’s really funny to read all your posts. makes me laugh. you are criticizing us when we defend kk but show me ONE post by me where i criticized rafi. NEVER. i NEVER criticized rafi UNLESS i was replying to someone else who criticized kk. but, by myself, i NEVER criticized rafi. it’s all u rafi fans who are criticizing kk.
the funny thing is none of u put forth any logical points. when u find that u cannot disprove something, u start personal attacks. this is a very cheap behaviour on your part. if u really want to prove something, prove it with logical points.
dear anmol,
you claim to possess lot of knowledge about music but u didn’t answer rajan parrikar’s posts. why ? bcos u don’t know ANYTHING about music. u just claim to have learnt classical music but i think u r lying. if u really know something about music, pls answer me on the following points (which rajan parrikar put forth so well) :
1. first and foremost is strict adherence to shruti or sur.
both kk and rafi were solid in this regard. music directors like khemchand prakash, husnlal-bhagatram, s.d.b, salil chowdhury etc. wouldn’t take kishore if he didn’t have perfect control over sur.
2. comfort over various ranges of sur (taar, madhya, and mandra saptak)
here it’s a matter of the kind of voice. now, kk’s voice is a classic baritone while rafi’s voice is quintissential tenor (if u don’t agree with this, u know nothing about music). so, rafi is more comfortable with high pitched songs (taar saptak) while kk is more comfortable with low pitched songs. it doesn’t mean that both are limited. rafi can definitely sing low pitched songs but he cannot sing as comfortably as kk just because kk’s voice (being a baritone) has more bass and can go lower than rafi. similarly, kk can sing high pitched songs but his baritone voice doesn’t allow him to go as high as rafi. this is a limitation of their voices and has nothing to do with their musical talents. for example, mahendra kapoor can go to higher pitch than any playback singer i heard.
3. expression or emotion. here also, kk is as good as rafi. both did full justice to their types of songs.
4. musical gift or creativity – here i refer to the ability of the singer to add something of his own to the music directors tune and stamp his own personality on it. it is here that both rajan and myself put kk over rafi. rafi, for all his expertise, rarely added something of his own to a song. kk has many instances of doing so. his yodelling is the most obvious example. it’s easy for YOU and other rafi fans to dismiss yodelling as a noise but u cannot deny that in all his songs kk did the yodelling in PERFECT SUR.
also, kk’s creativity is more clearly proved in the quality of his songs as a composer in hindi and bengali movies. he composed for very few films but in all the films, the songs were of very high quality. rafi never matched kk in this aspect.
the truth of the matter is kk had the gift of music. he was born with it.
also, u never replied to rajan parrikar’s comments. because u couldn’t argue logically against his opinions, u started criticizing him personally.
if u really know something about music, argue based on logical points. DO NOT start personal attacks.
in all my posts, i never attacked u personally. but when u started attacking me personally i got angry and responded to you.
Quite true Mohan Flora. Congratulation for being the 700th blogger! A word of thanks to the Administrator and other people behind the wonderful venture – Radio Mohd Rafi. Hopefully, the videos portion would be made available soon (and those much awaited live concerts) Thanks!