Versatility, Thy Name is Mohammed Rafi
Two Rafi Songs from the Film ‘Naya Raasta’- A Study in Contrast
By
Mrs. Usha G Rao- a Senior Member of ‘Baar Baar Rafi’- The Fan Club, Bangalore, India
Mohd Rafi
Call it a cliché, an oft-repeated statement or stating the obvious, I would still like to dwell on this topic and say- ‘Versatility, thy name is Mohammed Rafi’. For me, a discussion on any aspect of Rafi Sahab’s singing amounts to a joyful celebration of his music. Each time I look at the prism of his songs, I see a new angle, a new dimension hitherto unseen by me.
I wish to present here a study of two of his songs from the 1967 film Naya Raasta. The mood and the ethos of the two songs are at total variance with each other and hence are perfect examples for the topic under discussion. The music is composed by Narayan Dutta, better known as N Dutta and the lyrics written by Sahir Ludhianvi Sahab are some of the most meaningful lyrics ever written for films. The two songs are:
- “Ponchh kar ashq apni aankhon se”
- “Main ne pi sharaab, tum ne kya piya”
A brief outlining of the film’s story is necessary so as to understand the mood of the two songs. Balraj Sahni and his screen sister Asha Parekh belong to the economically and socially backward section of society. They are abused, insulted and ill-treated by people belonging to the affluent upper class. Jeetendra who is the love interest of Asha Parekh in the film plays the role of a sheet-anchor in her troubled life.
The first song ‘ponchh kar ashq apni aankhon se’ is happy, upbeat and full of hope and optimism. Saddened by her circumstances, the heroine Asha Parekh is in tears and the hero Jeetendra implores her not to wallow in self-pity and despair but to challenge the existing system and dream of a new social order.
The second antara has some of the most eloquent and thought-provoking words. They are as follows:
“Rang aur nasl, jaat aur mazhab,
jo bhi ho aadmi se kamtar hai,
is haqeeqat ko tum bhi meri tarah maan jaao
toh koyi baat bane.”
Rafi Sahab, as always, breathes life into the poignant lyrics. Gauging the mood of the song, his voice, flowing like a gentle stream, assumes a tender yet cheerful demeanour that is both soothing and comforting. As he sings this song, his voice encapsulates so much of hope, promise and happiness that it encourages the listener to think positively in life.
The second song is “Mainne pi sharaab, tum ne kya piya”.
This song is complex and multi-layered as varied emotions are portrayed in it. There is a sense of doom and despair, anger, frustration, bitterness and even defiance-emotions that are incongruent with each other.
As is evident from the lyrics, the character played by Balraj Sahni is in a drunken stupor while singing this song. Defeated and frustrated by the trials and tribulations he has to undergo in life, he gives vent to his feelings in this song.
As for Rafi Sahab’s singing, well, this is a Rafi song par excellence. This sing should definitely be counted among his best. Rafi Sahab, a teetotaller in real life, does a perfect imitation of a drunken man’s ways of enunciating the words. Notice his slurring and the slight incoherence while singing. When he repeats the mukhda, after each antara, notice how he sings the line ‘main ne pi sharab’ dragging the word ‘pi’.
The second antara begins with the words:
“Tum kaho toh sach, hum kahe toh jhooth,
Tum ko sab maaf, zulm ho ke loot”
While singing the line ‘hum kahe toh jhooth’, he lets out a snigger, a derisive laugh to show the character’s utter contempt, bitterness and a deep sense of hurt towards an unjust society.
Mohd Rafi
The last antara brings out strongly the discrepancies between the haves and the have-nots.
“Reet aur riwaaz sab tumhare saath,
dharm aur samaaj sab tumhare saath
apne saath kya dhool aur dhuan,
aaj chahe tum noch lo zubaan,
aanewala daur lega sab hisaab.”
The intensity of emotion comes out so well in Rafi Sahab’s voice when he sings this antara, especially in the last two lines:
“aaj chahe tum…
……sab hisaab” where he (that is the character played by Balraj Sahni) throws a challenge and warns people around him that future generations would make them pay for their misdeeds.
I urge all Rafi bhakths to watch the video clipping (if they have not done so already) of this song in which Rafi Sahab’s soulful rendition brings out all the subtle nuances of the song and enhances the brilliant performance of veteran actor Balraj Sahni. The entire song sequence, embellished by the two great artistes, makes for a moving visual and aural experience for the viewers.
Dear music lovers,you can describe rafi’ as , “rafi thy name is versatility”OR “versatility thy name is rafi ” .Maestro’s peeless voice is just like a rainbow which consists beautiful seven colors,saptsur are living together in rafi’s voice.rafi had ability to change is shade of voice according to the actor.While listening O doorke musafir or khoya khoya chaand or ai husn jara jaag tujhe you feel sense dilip, dev anand,and rajendra kumar only no one else,same is the thing with many more heros and comedians and character actors.Similarly when we listen ‘mujhe apni sharan me le lo raam ‘or ‘parvar digare alam tera hi hai sahara “we sense the ALMIGHTY’.
LATA’S ULTIMATE TRIBUTE TO RAFI SAAB
————————————————-
I do not know what some people in the anti-Rafi camp, who often cited classical maestros such as Bhimsen Joshi, will say now:
http://www.mumbaimirror.com/article/2/201101252011012503242735888a69ba3/Even-in-his-illness-he-wouldn%E2%80%99t-stop-singing.html
“At his concerts he was more in-demand for Bhajans than any other kind of singing. He did regular riyaaz. I sang in films. I kept avoiding facing the mike with him. But he never let me feel he was such a great singer.
It was almost like I was singing with Mohd Rafi Saab.”
LATA’S ULTIMATE TRIBUTE TO RAFI SAAB
————————————————-
I do not know what some people in the anti-Rafi camp who often cited classical maestros such as Bhimsen Joshi will say now:
http://www.mumbaimirror.com/article/2/201101252011012503242735888a69ba3/Even-in-his-illness-he-wouldn%E2%80%99t-stop-singing.html
“At his concerts he was more in-demand for Bhajans than any other kind of singing. He did regular riyaaz. I sang in films. I kept avoiding facing the mike with him. But he never let me feel he was such a great singer.
It was almost like I was singing with Mohd Rafi Saab.”
dear friends
Dear Friends,
I am another big RAFI fan rather I should say that I am a big RAFI Air Conditioner. Mohammed RAFI, beyond any doubt, has been the greatest singer of all times. He is the most versatile singer ever and has sung in as many as 18 languages an achievement which no other singer will ever reach. He was truly a god man, sent by god to sprinkle happiness in an unhappy world but called back on 31 july,1980, a mistake committed by god by calling him back as we all need RAFI saab more now. Today after 30 years of his soul leaving us I would like to say that RAFI saab you will always be with us through your songs which we all listen and mesmerize. May your soul live happily for ever.
Dear Friends,
I am another big RAFI fan rather I should say that I am big RAFI Air Conditioner. Mohammed Rafi, beyond any doubt, has been the greatest singer of all times. He has been the most versatile singer and has sung in as many as 18 languages. He was truly a god man, sent by god to sprinkle happiness in an unhappy world but called back on 31 july,1980, a mistake committed by god as we need RAFI saab more now. Today after 30 long years of his soul leaving us I would like to say that RAFI saab you are with us, we all can feel you by listening and mesmerizing your songs. May your soul live happily for ever.
Lata on Rafi:
http://www.hindu.com/mag/2010/07/25/stories/2010072550090200.htm
“He was one singer whose vocal range could outclass any other singer, whether it was me, Asha, Mannada or Kishore bhaiya. Yet, he never believed in dominating the scene.”
“It is very wrong to say that Kishore Kumar overtook Rafi bhaiya in the early 1970s.Kishore was no doubt at his peak, but Rafi bhaiya was equally effective with Tere naam ka diwana, Gulabi aankhen, Yeh duniya yeh mehfiland Tum jo mil gaye ho. Even Kishore bhaiya never felt he was ahead of Rafi.”
i’m taking talent into account, not nations / religion:
The best male singer of all time = M. Rafi …. no male singer can ever match him…he’s just too good!
and although this isn’t for this forum… those of you who are saying that lata is better than noor jehan… please don’t…….. they’re both different singers and you can’t compare the two… it’s not about who’s better it’s about them as individuals … they’re both my fav singers
I love every single song Of Muhammad Rafi, He and Kishore were great singers. if they were not sing songs in Indian music industry than today we are facing very different kind of music in Pakistan and India.
Listen to what Anand of Anand-Milind fame says at 1:51 (same as what Haldar-ji stated sometime back)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9tfQecYKoA
The newly released song is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUGJyOM7zik&feature=related
Haldar-ji,
Nice anecdotes here on the newly released songs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2AJSbt_gUg
P haldar gee
this forum is for rafi only and not for noor jahan.if you wana listen facts then plz abide by experts opinion.this is on record that lata never enjoyed that height which is written in noor jahan’s destiny and there is no doubt about it.naushad,ghulam haider c-ram chandra always missed noor jahan a lot.
radha is quite right in this regard why we even bother about any other singer if this is rafi’s forum.this is in the nature of some people who cant listen to logics and invite funny controversies without any regard even for rafi.
its very surprising dat wid biased attitude someone placing lata over noor jaha.lata never placed even equal to noor jahan by music critics.radaha is 100% rite dat we r music lovers and must not be biased.we have to accept da realities and hav to place our likings on side.dis tribute is for rafi and plz dnt spoil it by giving illogical comparisons between lata and noor jahan becz no one could be noor jahan.rafians cant go into controversies and they give equal respect to every legend as a follower of rafi.i request rafians to give a full stop to such elememts who r trying to give it a bad shape.thanks
rafi g is the last great singar of the this malinume
Sun, Feb 14 05:58 AM
Three decades after he sang them, six of Mohammed Rafi’s unreleased songs have been brought together in an album
In the late seventies, while in college, brothers and co-composers, Anand and Milind Srivastava tried never to miss the practice sessions of playback singers who rehearsed with their father, composer Chitragupta. One of their favourites was a soft-spoken man, dressed almost always in a white shirt and white trousers, low key despite his soaring popularity. The man was playback singer Mohammed Rafi, who recorded his last six songs to tunes by Chitragupta, which have so far not been released, but are out now in an album titled The Last Songs (Universal Music; Rs 150).
The six songs were supposed to be part of the soundtrack of a movie, Sorry Madam by director Dilip Bose, who had earlier made films like Chandi Ki Diwar, Sansar, Thokar, Sikka, and Badnaam. While the music, composed by Chitragupta featuring Rafi in most of the duets and the solos was ready by 1979, the shoot for the movie, a re-make of a hit Bengali film by the same name, was to be completed in a year’s time. But post the preliminary shoots in 1978-79, the film got shelved when Bose’s wife passed away. The music spools had been lying with the family since and finally, the youngest son, Bobby Bose, acquired the rights of the songs and decided to put it out on the public domain.
“The songs were composed over three decades ago and as soon as we came to know of their existence we thought it was an album that should be made available to the public, particularly to the scores of Rafi fans across the country,” says Rajeeta Hemwani, Vice President, Content, A and R, Universal Music.
For both Bose and the Srivastavas, the songs bring back some wonderful memories. Bose talks of Rafi’s touching humility. “He was not just an exceptional singer, but a wonderful human being as well,” he says. Anand Srivastava talks of the rehearsal sessions. “Usually all the rehearsals at our place would start at 8 am. Rafi sahab was extremely punctual. He would arrive at five minutes to eight and park his Fiat a few bungalows away. At exactly a minute to eight, he would ring the door-bell and come in. He never drove himself and was always accompanied by his brother-in-law Zahir, who would take down the lyrics in Urdu. Rafi sahab never sang more than once in the practice sessions, and always in a very low tenor. At the pre-recording at the studio though, he would totally change. He put in such passion in each song you would wonder where all the energy and the nuances came from,” says Anand. Let Rafi’s music play, once again.
Paromita-Chakrabarti
I am amazed at the flak that Dhani Ram ji is getting for voicing his honest opinion. I agree with most of what he has written. Rafi and Lata are the biggest names in playback singing. Period. No one — and I repeat, no one — could have stopped their ascent to the top. Just because Rafi idolised Saigal and Lata idolised Noorjehan doesn’t imply that the seniors were better than the juniors. Yes, if Saigal didn’t die prematurely and the country was not partitioned, Rafi and Lata’s entry to stardom might have been delayed. That’s not because Saigal and Noorjehan were better singers, but because they were singing stars. If there’s anything on par or better than a Rafi-Lata duet, it’s a Rafi-Asha duet, Jugnu or no Jugnu. At the time of Jugnu, Rafi was a struggling youngster barely out of his teens. Is it a big surprise that he was a little nervous singing with the number 1 singing actress of that time?
hi all rafians
lets cut the crap out.we r not here to discuss controversies and dnt agree wid social limitations of music.we must throw those ppl out of here who r inviting unnecessary mes.i request all rafians to avoid those ppl who r trying to degrade the legens bcs rafi is also a legend,he is not out of music person.so i once again request all rafians to discourage such ppl who r discussing social values of indo-pak.and i fully agree wid radha in this regard.thax
dhani gee
m not here 4 anybody’s advocacy.i have jst revealed facts(nt my self asumed).i quoted noushad’s,nisar’s and c ramchandra’s authenticated remarks who were best in da game.dis is rafi’s site and m stil unable 2 get it 4 wat dis biased comparison has been started…?initialy, u were after great ahmed rushdi by taking a hard line of placing low level singers like masood rana over rushdi and den suddenly u started targeting madame noor jahan who is da ideal of lata mangeshkar,rafi,feroz nizami,noushad,ghulam haider,kl sehgal,geeta dutt and many more..
i agree wid ali dat dere r some ppl who r trying 2 convert dis forum into indo-pak battle but m greatful 2 asjad and odrz,dey maintained repect of dis forum.4 ur info dhani sir, lata got fame bcz noor jahan left 4 pakistan(dis is on record and do chk it b4 cuming out wid ur own logics).if rafi or rushdi or noor jahan could have read ur biased logics,dey would have laughed only..
dhani g..u dnt like ahmed rushdi(though he is one of da greatest singers of south asia not declaired by me but by music critics),u hav reservations against noor jahan(4 dat no one could even give a logic),u hav problems wid kl sehgal(wat one can say??),u hate kishore kumar(sympothies wid rd burman),u have serious issues wid barey ghulam ali(4 which classical music must b feeling sorry)…if someone has dese serious troubles den dat person has no respect 4 anybody(including Rafi). 1 thing 4 sure,if sum 1 is doing so,he/she is just using rafi’s name just 2 satisfy his/her…i dnt kno wat.
lets discuss ur likings now…masood rana(a copier of rafi who rose in 1962 and was not at all a versatile singer but still i respect his work),saleem raza(a voice which doomed immediately after start of his career and he has no single film song after 1969 though he died in 1984),surayya multani(a ghazal singer wid only 1 famous ghazal u mentioned),mala(a female singer whose voice quality was in no match wid noor jahan,lata and she got fame bcz of her duets wid one and only ahmed rushdi..consult mala’s wikipedia plz).
dhani ram g…u hav affiliated urslf wid rafi and doing exactly opposite to da traditions of rafians.watever i listed above is supported by authenticated facts easily available everywhere.but wat u r saying is only asumption and nthing else. u said u hav a rite to criticise any 1 u feel like,sory no 1 has dis rit,even nt sd burman or nisar bazmi(though dey r da rite ppl 4 dis job).i request all rafians 2 discourage such attitudes and give equal place 2 every legend bcz music is our life.thaks
For once, I did not fully agree with Dhani Ramji’s tone, but I agree with the overall spirit of the message. That, Indian film music is richer than Pakistan’s. And the reason to me is social, and little to do with musical talents. I will not delve into those social issues because that will lead to unnecessary controversy.
Rafi saab’s greatness was not that he was the best in every genre. But his adaptation to every genre was amazing, backed by his golden emotive voice which added a different dimension to everything he sang (emotive quality does not matter much outside film music). He almost had the ‘perfect voice’-a voice that could ‘represent the mood’ without having to compromise on the fundamental rules of singing..He was almost 10 singers rolled into one (though those 10 singers individually could be better than him on some counts).
To me, singers in film music can be classified into 5 types:
1. Bad singers
2. Good/okay singers
3. Great singers
4. Legends
5. Rafi
first of all saleem raza was an urdu singer not punjabi and he started his music career in 1955 in tallat mahmood’s inspiratin.his voice had a close resembelance with tallat’s.for example ”bhool jao gey tum kar ke wada sanam”.he sang less than 5 songs in pnjabi and a total number of 92 songs in his entire career.how one could compare him with afmed rushdi(seven thousand film songs)???(if the criterian set by dhani sir is bein implemented here as he raised a question abouth ustad amanat ali khan).one thing has to be kept in mind like barey ghulam ali,amanat ali hated playback singing.
masood rana again was rafi’s immitation who remained a fourth number singer in rating.those who have a limited variety and are not capable of singing every type of song,if these singers are being praised and given priority over extraordinary singers like ahmed rushdi,means a level of hatred.i will not go further.but if some pakistani will say i dont think high of rafi or he doesnt like rafi this means what????evry body has the answer.
now about noor jahan.no one in this room can qualify that criterian to say any thing about her.lata gee declares her ideal and she sang a better variety of songs in pakistan in khawaja khurshid anwer,rashid attrey,nisar bazmi’s etc compositions.”dukhaye dil jo kisi ka”..”mujhko ghame halat ki’..o janey waley rey” are some of the examples.even rafi was depressed once he was singing his first duet with noor jahan”yahan wafa ka badla bewafai ke siwa kia hai”film(khandan).i think it would suffice.
k asif’s mughl-e-azam is the best suited example given by radha.rafi learned classical music from barey ghulam ali.rafi was not only a great singer but a great human being also.he admitted several times in his life that barey ghulam ali had yet to teach him many aspects but unfortunately he left.”o dunya ke rakhwaley” is the rafi’s masterpiece but the clasical allap of mughl-e-azam could only be qualified by barey g. ali khan(who knows better than noushad).these are the facts which i never wanted to elaborate here but compeled to do so.
now about mohammad rafi.he is my favourate singer and i am proud that we had him.he was master of all moods and one of the very few singer who had such a grip over voice and deep expressive throw(according to sonu nigam..a great admirer of mohammad rafi).i again request every one not to go in this comparison business because it will spoil the purpose of this tribute .respected dhani g..please create a battle site somwhere without using rafi’s name and start comparison over there.for me ahmed rushdi,mohd rafi,noor jahan,lata every one has equal importance.
Dear friends,
I’m glad to see that a lot of old-timers like sudip ji, dhani ram ji and venkat ji are back in full force. I spent the first three weeks of the year in Kolkata and what a great time it was! The mercury had dipped to around 10 degrees celsius and the very first time I switched on the radio, I was treated to “main kahin kavi na ban jawoon.” Next morning I was in a taxi, I caught a few lines of Rafi’s “janu meri jaan” playing outside and before the other singer could chip in, I was out of earshot. Very auspicious, indeed. Next day, in another taxi, the radio was playing “chunnu chhabile munnu hatile”. And then when I was just about to enter a friend’s house, I heard “tum to na kaho hum khud hi se khele”. And that night, someone outside was playing “dard-e-dil dard-e-jigar”. Five in a row! Reminded me of my youth.
I am not a superstitious person but I must confess that some of the best things in my life have happened when rafi saab’s voice has streamed into my consciousness through the air waves.
On behalf of all the rafian friends today 18th February I would like to wish a very very “happy marriage anniversary” to our rafian friend mr. prakash shah and mrs. Mallika shah.
Bhagwan kare ye jodi ta-qayamat salamat rahe !!!
Plz keep voting for “rafi sahab”…
http://www.whopopular.com/Mohammed-Rafi
rajkumar akela
radhaji and ashokji
i shall not comment on your personal comments on me as that has nothing to do with music.actually when one is weak in logic and facts, one resorts to such tactics.i am interested in music and not in your personal tastes and proclivities.
1. i would request both of you to read my post carefully again.i have not denigrated pakistani music in any way. overall i believe that pakistani music was ahead of indian. i love amanat ali khan but how many songs did he sing for pakistani films? just a couple of them.he was not a film singer just as amir khan sahib was not.i was simply comparing hindi film music with pakistani film music of a certain era and i stand by my statement that indian music was far ahead.Pakistani music (films only) was average.
2. i didn’t bring in pakistani singers into the debate.actually, i was keeping away from it but then on this rafi forum i found people extolling rushdie and masood and others.and i wanted to straighten things out.
3. i don’t buy false and sentimental assumptions that we shouldn’t appreciate or criticise a particular cultural item because it has political overtones.by saying that indian film music is superior, i am not making any nationalist statement.if i say that tolstoy is a better novelist than munshi prem chand,am i making an anti-national statement? when discussing music,let us keep our discussion limited to music only.
4. i said that pakistani film industry’s forte was making panjabi films and their punjabi music is very good.it was in that connection that i mentioned saleem raza and masood rana and i cited one of their songs also. you should listen to songs of pakistani panjabi films.you will find them closer to their soil.besides.saleem raza’s jaane bahaara rashke chaman has no equal in pakistani film music except perhaps suraiya multanikar’s bare be murawwat hain yeh husn wale.but then suraiya was not a regular film singer.
5. again about rushdie i said that i had no likiing for him and added that i would let that pass.i still don’t want to argue about him.personally he doesn’t appeal to me
6. now if i say anything about noor jehan it will raise another controversy.in india she sang some passably good songs but in pakistan she produced only average songs(quite often even below average).there was once a debate in pakistani press on noor jahan as a singer in which she faced a lot of flake.she was certainly an overrated singer.i don’t want to go into the reasons for this.
7. as consumers of music,we need to have a dicriminating critical sense about it.we can’t just accept it blindly.i have every right to criticise what i find substandard.
8.there is distorted logic in saying that naushad in mughale azam got classical singers to sing classical numbers.in baiju bawra ustad amir khan sang a classical song but man tadpat and o dunia ke rakhwale were given to rafi.both the songs had classical base.do you think the ustad could have sung either of them? that is not to belittle the great ustad.he was the best in what he could do. but rafi could do that no other singer could,whether classical or any other.
Dear fans,
I think in Pakistan there are great singers and music directors, some of them they worked for bollywood ,we should know why singers and films in Pakistan are not famous as in Indian as I think(maybe I am wrong)because they are culture and most places in Pakistan there ppl don’t like music…..
it is not important who is from where and we r music lover and should enjoy good music and no problem where he or she from…If am not wrong Mohd rafi is the top singer also in Pakistan and also there should be many great singer in Pakistan(sorry i don’t know music)
Please stop compare Pakistan to India or India to Pakistan we are music lover and not in unwanted war..ppl in India and Pakistan are same colour .
sorry to Dearest Pakistan fans please understand that no mohd Rafi fan will say anything wrong about any Pakistan singer but there are some bad people who have no place and they want us to fight for nothing ,Mohd Rafi himself was a fan of Pakistan singer G Ali and Lata ji also….
If am not wrong I feel that mohd rafi songs should most sale in Pakistan and india……
when ever I asked a Pakistan fan about Mohd Rafi he or she said no one be compare with mohd rafi…..
If my father is so bad man and other man is father is so great when he said me that ur father is so bad , I will aswer that ur father is bad because we don’t agree with the trueth something when it comes to us…….
for me Mohd Rafi is like the sun and when sun comes out we can’t see moon and stars
sorry dear if heart any of u…………..
hi friends
m from pakistan and great fan of ahmed rushdi but has equal respect for mohammad rafi sahab. rafi sahab is a great legend and equally respected every where.like rushdi sahab,rafi sahab had amazing voice quality and no one can compete rafi sahab as far as playback singing is concerned.tallat mahmood,mukesh,hemant kumar,all are great names but rafi is above all.
m extremely thankful to ashok sahab,radha gee and sadhna gee for giving an unbiased opinion.your knowledge on the subject surprised me that you people know so much in detail about ahmed rushdi,masood rana etc.you are right that masood rana and saleem raza cant stand with rushdi sahab though they were also amazing singers like kishore kumar,manna day cant compete rafi sahab.masood rana was a big fan of rafi and he use to sing high pitch sogs normaly.unfortunately saleem raza doomed earlier because of mehdi hassan and ahmed rushdi’s presence in pakistan film industry.rafi sahab inspired a lot many singer during the past 65 years and his legacy still travels.i thank you all once again for giving a neutral opinion and keeping certain elements who enjoy controversies, away from creating bad taste.my only purpose of posting comments here is to express my respect and likeness to the great voice of subcontinent by the name of mohammad rafi.
hi radha and ashok and oderz
m a great fan of rafi but 100% agree wid u ppl dat dis is a respectable forum to pay a tribute 2 da greatest singer of subcontinent rafi sahab.i understand some ppl out of their biased nature r trying 2 degrade paki singers and its very frustrating..4 da instance v take da example of one and only ahmed rushdi.he is da most versatile and sweetest voice i ever listened 2..i dnt place rushdi above rafi bcz no one could b mohammad rafi but have to admit also da greatness of ahmed rushdi.
4 ppl like mr dhani ram, i hav 2 recall dat classical rag and allap of movie mughl-e-azam by barey ghulam ali khan.k asif requested barey ghulam ali to sing dat claasical song rather than asking mohd rafi.it dosnt make rafi less great but in classical allaps,barey ghulam ali was the last word.as far as kl sehgal is concerned,da biggest wish of rafi was 2 sing a single line wid him.so da music in kl sehgal’s time,wasnt infant..mukesh and manna dey has no match wid ahmed rushdi..not even a single song of these singers could be mentioned which matches da expressive singing of ahmed rushdi.can some one do dat logicaly??
mohd rafi has no match.i love his voice like anything..i agree dat dis forum is 2 praise rafi by discussing his greatness and not by degrading other great names.v must request all those ppl who r trying 2 give dis tribute a differnt shape and using dis forum 4 their own hatred and despration, must stay away and dnt bring a bad name 4 rafians.
for me rafi is the start and end of playback singing.
respected dhani g
i realy dont understand wat are u trying to prove here.your self asumed assumptions will damage this tribute to great mohammad rafi.m a greatest admirer of rafi but the way you are trying to express your feelings,plz dont mind,its not a voice of a fan but of a disrespectful person who lacks sense of proportion and judjement..again i apologise
wat if pakistani/indian admirers of ahmed rushdi/mehdi hassan/noor jahan start degrading our great indian legends because of your small little effort for mohd rafi.we are not supposed to invite pakistani’s to start a useless fight.sir umair’s commemts give us a very neutral overview but you are going in wrong direction.you are speaking high of masood rana and saleem raza who even dont stand 100 km near ahmed rushdi(its a fact not an assumption,read masood rana’s wikipedia).masood rana got fame for a while because he started his career with rafi’s style.he had a stiffed voice and never got priority over magician of voice ahmed rushdi.saleem raza’s career met an end in 1960 because of ahmed rushdi.if you dont consider some great singer up to that level,,plz dont express it.dhani gee,lata has no comparison with noor jhan and lata herself accepted not only this fact but also started her career in noor jahan’s style(though my favourate singer is lata like every hindustani).
respected sir…legends cant be compared.our purpose for gathering here is to express our feelings to our love mohammad rafi.restrict yourself to the soul of this site and avoid controversies and dont get sentimental on the subject.please dont spoil this effort of millions and millions fans of mohd rafi.even then,i thank you for you contribution.
well dhani ge
thanx 4 replying.i dont understand y we indians try to give dis impression dat v r extremests and hav no respect for othrz work.if shah rukh speaks 4 pakistani cricket team,he gets threats over life…u said u dnt think high of ahmed rushdi,dis means u consider urself above than sd burman,nisar bazmi,noushad,lal iqbal,deebo batti charia.in classical music rafi cant even stand near to mehdi hassan,ustad amanat ali and barey ghulam ali.i consider rafi a great singer but factually speaking there is a difference between playback singing and classical singing.
now lets discuss ur 2nd statement dat u love saleem raza and masood rana which clearly speaks abt ur standard of singing(wid due apologies).masood rana was a pale immitation of rafi and stands no where near rushdi bcz rana was only specialist in theme songs.now abt saleem raza..raza is an absleted voice which doomed in mid 60s just like tallat mahmood and u r comparing masood rana and saleem raza wid versatile ahmed rishdi.m realy surprised over ur logics whish amused me a lot.u said even aasha bhosley is better than pak singers but u forgot wat noushad said wen noor jahan was leaving india.”now v have left witd half lata only”.
dhani g m nt here to speak 4 pak singers but this mind set wont lead u any where.kishore was nt even consider to b a singer till late 60s..noushad said abt asha bhoseley”this is a market (bazari)voice.”with due respect sir dhani,the comparison of songs u asked 4 are of these films which i mentioned above,kindly listen to these songs on youtube and uprise urself on the subject.
last bt nt least..,sir, plz dnt place urself above than c ram chander,noushad,rd burman…etc.v have to accept da realities rather just taking a false and biased stance and got to give respect to the graeat legends of subcontinent.i never read or listen any pakistani degrading rafi,kishore or lata den y v do dat.plz use dis forum to praise rafi only and nt 4 a controversial comparison.thanx sir.
Question for Haldar-ji and others
—————————————
Was the guitar flanger used anytime before ‘Dhanno ki aakhon mein’ by RDB in ‘Kitaab’?
ms radhaji
and for once i must return the compliment and say that you do not want to face the facts.i have no intention of raising any unwarranted controversies.this forum is for rafi fans and i consider myself second to none in my admiration for rafi sahib,a singer like whom the subcontinent has not seen .but i can’t accept your unfounded assertion of equivalence between hfm of 50′s and 60′s and its pakistani counterpart.you have cited pakistani films but haven’t cited the songs of these films that compare favourably with the hindi films i mentioned by me at random.from beginning to end they were non-descript compositions sung in non-descript voices.can you cite any ten pakistani songs of the period set in classical mode and sung with classical grasp.please list them to match the indian classicals.
but i give credit where it is due.overall pakistan was far ahead of india in music from mid_60s onwards.I love masood rana for his punjabi songs.i love saleem raza.there is one song based on punjabi bolian that i can hear a thousand times without getting satiated.the song is: asmaani taare ne, baazi dil waali canna wey aseen jit ke vee haare wey. it is sung by mala( i am not sure.correct me if i am wrong),saleem raza and masood rana.there is another.its wording is in urdu but otherwise it is punjabi in everyway:chaand take chhup chhup ke peechhe khazoor ke.again saleem raza with a female singer.
unfortunately pakistan had no singers to match rafi,lata,mukesh,manna de,talat and even asha. i don’t have a high opinion of ahmad rushdie but let that pass.
however, i agree with you regarding the decline of hfm.if you permit me to use metaphorical language and if you will support me in any controversy arising out of it,i will say that hindi film music had its childhood when sehgal sang ai katibe taqdeer.it grew to youth with lata and rafi and then headed towards gerontion and demise. it got its embrace of death from rd-kishore-asha combo and decent burial with slum dog millonnaire.jai ho is the final mantra chanted at its burial. i call it a decent burial because of the glitter of the international awards. from dil jalta hai to jalne de (for illustration sake only) to jai ho is a long saga of melodious freshness to decrepitude and death.
in any case, thanks for responding to my views.
u r absolutely rong abt it dhani sir.m not pakistani but i know dat indian and pakistani film music was in equelence in 50s and 60s.indian film baiju bwra, pakistani film mosiqar,indian film mughl-e-azam,pakistani film arman etc.indian music faced a downfall in 70s wen kishore took over rafi and pakistan wen urdu film era finished.i request u dnt bring any sort of comparison here bcz dis forum is 4 great rafi not 4 controversies.thanx
Let us put things in proper perspective and not sentimentallise them.
1.Pakistani film music of the 50s and 60s was mediocre,mediocre compositions sung by mediocre singers.there were some sweet songs here and there but nothing great or outstanding.there is nothing there comparable to baiju bawra,mughale azam or hum dono and scores of other bollywood movies of the period.
2. the forte of lahore film makers were punjabi movies and they did a much better job in that area.Pakistani punjabi music was far ahead of its indian counterpart.
3.in non-film music pakistan was way ahead of india in 60′s and 70s.there was nothing comparable in india to pakistani ghazal,sufi,qawwalii,folk music.Palostan excelled at music overall.
4.unfortunately,music is dead in both countries.the race to ape the west has destroyed music in both countries. I have always loved pakistani music.Zubaida khanum,zareef,attaullah and a host of other gave us divine songs.what has happened to pakistani music.to india r.d.burman happened.
being a student of music,i hav a great inspiration from mohd Rafi,ahmad rushdi and lata mangeshkar.kishore kumar is a very good vocalist but v cant compare him wid rafi.its just like we cant compare kumar sanu wid him.anwaz,i agree legends can’t b compared.
murti sir
u dnt seem to understand da purpose of dis tribute to one and only rafi…umair,radha,vkram are quite rite abt dis fact dat legends r uncompareable.even v r nt suppose to call kk a lower grade singer from rafi bcz den it will hurt kk fans.i listened to many rushdi songs and admitted dis fact dat the man was out standing.mukesh,manna dey, kl sehgal all r great.if dere wud b a compitition between rafi,rushdi,tallat,manna dey and hamant kumar,only one out of these was suppose to b a winner but dis winning never undermined the importance of others.thnx
thanks sadhna for admiring my efforts
RS murti gee…
thankyou very much for replying.you are absolutely right about great mohd rafi and i would add that not even a single song of rafi can be copied by any other singer.same is the case with ahmed rushdi,he set a level of expressive singing which cannot be qualified(according to nisar buzmi).but just to uprise you,i wana give an example of tallat mahmood.his certain songs are best suited to his voice only and no ther singer could have done justice with those songs.likewise kl sehgal’s certain songs cannott be copied with same expresssion.these great legengs never consider any other singer below their shade.rafi,rushdi,lata,noor jahan,tallat etc always respected each other and the level of singing these great names ensured will never be compromised.for example sonu nigam sings rafi very closely but he will never be rafi.these great names are the institutions of music and we are just suppose to keep one thing in our hearts for them and that is repect and only respect.
hi umair gee…
ur knowledge on music is wonderful and amazed me a lot.u beautifuly describe the great singing legends.and u r rite dat legends r not at all compareable.every playback singer after 70s has inspirations 4m these great names.thanx 4 shairing ur info.
4 post 199..i hav an advise..he must nt post any coments again bcz kishore has no comparison wid great rafi.
hi sir ali
u miss understood me.i never called kk or any singer bad.but u r 4getting one fact that i might b more current on music history as compared to u.this forum is not 4 placing some legend at a higher place over another.this is what v call immaturety.ahmed rushdi had amazing variation in his voice and he is widely respected in south asian music industry.mohammad rafi is also a big name and master of all moods but u cant place kk or mukesh with him.i respect kk also and he is also a legend.its a request that u must not use this forum for controversial statements.4 me rafi is an institution but mind u legends r incompareable and i nevr considered kk a bad singer.v have to give mature statements.thanks
Umairbhai, ali bhai and others. I have seen references to some exceptional singers like ahmed rushdi. i too have heard a few of his songs on youtube. But let me be emphatical, without an iota of disrespect to any singer, that some of the songs of Rafi Sahab can never be repeated in the same level by any one else. I will give only two examples of songs – from the film Ghazal the Sahir penned ghazal – MERI MEHBOOB KAHIN AUR MILA KAR MUJHSE and the second is from the film Palki – KAL RAAT ZINDAGI SE MULAQAT HO GAYI. The second song for instance goes beyond mere playback singing. It is an on-the-spot creation by Rafi Sahab. It looks like a fabled singer is presenting the richness of his art in front of a very distinguished and musically enriched audience – a la great concerts. And that this audience is awestruck by the sheer brilliance of the rendition. Listening to this rendition has made me feel like that on several occasions. Naushad Sahab was rewarded for compositing such a soulful tune by Rafi Sahab in his exceptional and out of this world singing. No one can ever reach anywhere this rendition friends. Every singer has had his/her share of very good compositions and they have excelled in their songs. Many have gone beyond imaginations too. Rafi Sahab overdid all these. He presented the exact thoughts of the shayar, the poet, the lyricist and matched the storyline and the sequence of the song in every word of the song. If anyone can present a singer who can render songs of the above kind in the same fashion, I will be happy to follow such a singer too. But until then, Rafi Sahab sits on top of that musical pyramid, where there is space for just himself.
Hi Radha I agree with ,thanks
Sir Umair,
i am sorry about worng link of Rushdi ji songs boz jest I copied it from youtube really I am sorry……..
yes that true I am only mohd rafi fan and I only listen to mohd rafi most of time…A long time back I saw a program on Pakistan TV if I am not wrong it was on Rushdi ji and they say about his one sad song that this song only can be sing by Rushdi ji or mohd rafi no one else can sing it….
post 199
well,there can be no arguing with hardened sceptiics and doubters.it is an exercise in futility.those who have no respect for rafi will probably not think very high of pandit ravi shankar.this is what the sitar maestro said in an interview with Shekhar Gupta,editor in chief indian express.ravi shankar was composing for some film .rafi was called for audition.ravi says,’ rafi sang classically.he had such a tuneful voice’. Ravi chose only one film singer for a glowing tribute.the interview was telecast in walk the talk programme (probably on ndtv) and its script was printed in the indian express the next day.my point is when rafi draws such adulation from the leading classiciists,need we bother about the fulminations of the scum of the earth.?
dear sir ali
i apriciate your concern but last three songs you mentioned are not of Ahmed Rushdi.First song was sung by Rushdi sahab but the second one is in the voice of Mujeeb alam and last two were sung by Masood Rana(a copier of Rafi).
ali bro
I kno rafi is the great name and no doubt abt it.ahmed rushdi is a pakistani singer but m also an admirer of rushdi though m an indian because no body competes him in expressions.kishore cannot b compared wid rafi because being a student of classical music i kno dat.i greatly respect u but v r suposed 2 b impartial and must not b biased.if i love rafi i cant undermine manna dey’s importanci in classical singing or rushdi’s versatility.but kishore cant b placed wid rafi thouh he is a very goog singer.thanks 4 replying.
Thanks for replying sir Ali
Songs you reffered are the greatest hits of Ahmed Rushdi and with his own unique style no where sound like great Rafi. Infact you are a fan of Rafi sahab thats why you felt like that.In fact evey legend has a place and no one out of Rafi,Rushdi,Kishore or Mehdi Hassan ever declaired any one their coppier so why should we bothered about that???Every great name has his own place.I love Rafi sahab also.When Rushdi sahab started his career in 1949,Rafi sahab himself was singing in KL Sehgal’s style(for example song “yeh zindagi Ke meley”) and then later on he developed his own lovely style.Likewise when Rafi sahab met singer Masood rana, he declaired Ahmed Rushdi his favourate voice.On the death of Rafi sahab, Rushdi sahab wept and gave him a tribute.Once in an interview great singer Hemant kumar declaired Rafi his favourate singer.But it doesnt mean Hemant kumar was a mimic of Rafi. So we must respect every legend in true latter and spirit.Mohammad rafi is great.Ahmed Rushdi is great and playback singing is because of these big names.
HI Radha,
we mohd rafi fan don’t like to speak about great actor Kishore da..
As u said “Mohd Rafi is just like a university of singing to me.He will remain the last word in every type of singing”but I want to say he is the first and last word in sining,mohd rafi like the sun for music world which give light to moon.
Hi Vikram sir,
I think should not say anything about a singer he or she bad singer and also we should not compare any one with mohd rafi…as Actor Dilip kummar said that mohd rafi songs giving aswer to who said that there is better singer then mohd rafi…
I like all singers but I listen only mohd rafi boz i get what ever I want so why should i listen to some one else
hI Umair SIR
THANKS FOR INFORMATION ABOUT SINGER FROM PAKISTAN.
YES YOUR RIGHT AHMED RUSHDI IS GREAT SINGER BUT I FEEL THAT HIS STYLE LOOKED AS MOHD RAFI SORRY I DON’T KNOW ABOUT MUSIC MUCH..
ANY GOOD SINGER WE FEEL THAT HE IS LIKE MOHD RAFI BECAUSE MOHD RAFI IS LAST WORD IN MUSIC WORLD.. SOME SONGS OF AHMED RASHDI ON YOUTUBE,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0CrYbUJVlA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TURmXGUnzQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vowImCoqRc0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7YCDbw97SY&feature=related
Kishore Kumar has no comparison with Rafi.I listened to Ahmed Rushdi’s songs also and would agree that Rushdi is far a head than Kishore.Rafi is the greatest name and Rushdi occupies 2nd position.Ahmed Rushdi has a different style and he didnt copy Mohammad Rafi anywhere.My father is also a classical singer and he introduced me to Rafi,Ahmed Rushdi and Tallat Mahmood.In terms of Expressions, Rafi and Rushdi enjoys a batter shade.Then Tallat comes.Kishore is a good singer but we can call him Kumar Sanu of 70s.I also respect Pakistani singers and Umair Bhayya is absolutely right about Ahmed Rushdi,a great singer from Pakistan.Mohd Rafi is just like a university of singing to me.He will remain the last word in every type of singing.
m a great fan of both rafi and ahmed rushdi.initially i was only a rafi freak but by chance when i listened to rushdi, he also inspired me a lot.i agree that these 2 big names of subcontinent have their own unique styles.Kishore has no match with rafi, actually kishore was a light singer and he gained popularity when great rafi was out of scene.
Nisar Bazmi started his career in India and you are right sir ali that Mohammad Rafi sang a couple of songs in his compositions. Bazmi came to Pakistan in 1963 and got Ahmed Rushdi sab as a playback singer for his first film “Aisa bhi hota hai”. he made Rushdi sab to sing a sad duet with madam noor jahan” mohabbat mei tere sir ki kasam ” which became very popular. after that Ahmed Rushdi gave a playback in his every film.For example Saiqa, aag, jaise jantey nahi, andaleeb, anjuman, mohabbat…and the list goes on. Nisar Bazmi’s opinion is of much more importance as he has worked with both Rafi sab and Rushdi sab. In Pakistan many singers like Massod Rana, Akhlaq ahmedetc coppied Rafi’s style but Ahmed Rushdi is an exception. For your convenience, i am mentioning some songs here. you can listen these songs on you tube. bhooli hue hoon dastan(film doraha0), Akeley na jana(arman), Raat chali hai jhoom ke(josh), Aey mere diwaney dil(Jahan tum wahan hum), Kabhi toe tum ko yaad ayen gi(chakori), Aey abr-e-karam aaj itna baras(naseeb apna apna).do listen to these songs and then post your reply.thanks.
Sir Ali
I highly apreciate ur concern.As far as ur question is concerned, this is on record that Ahmed Rushdi never coppied Rafi or any other singer. Rushdi started his career in 1950 and at that time Rafi sab himself was singing in KL Sehgal’s style. Mohammad Rafi is no doubt a great voice of subcontinent but I assure you that Ahmed Rushdi had his own unique style. For example, you listen to his first song “Bander road se kemari” to his last song” Ban ke misra Ghazal ka”. You will agree to my statement which is actually not mine but critics have this opinion.
Sir Umair
I don’t know about Pakistani music but if i am not wrong that Ahmed Rusdhi copied Mohd rafi sining way……..if am not wrong music director Nisar Bazmi was of of the top and start with Mohd rafi songs and mohd rafi charged him only 1Rs
No doubt Rafi is a great singer of subcontinent but here I would like to bring in someone we are forgetting and that is’ Melody Prince’ Ahmed Rushdi from Pakistan. He is considered to be one of the most versatile singers of subcontinent. Ahmed Rushdi was master of expressions and was an expert of singing every type of song, ghazal, qawali. His voice quality was amazing. Once famous music director Nisar Bazmi said that Mohammad Rafi and Ahmed Rushdi are amongst those few singers of south asia whose voices cannot form ‘cones’ once they rose to touch the higher notes. As far as Kishore Kumar is concerned, he is also a big name but got no comparison with Mohammad Rafi. He gained fame as a playback singer in 1970s when Rafi was not singing that much due to obvious reasons. I think Kishore occupies third position after Mohammad Rafi and Ahmed Rushdi.
No doubt that Rafi is one of the great playback singers of subcontinent but here I would like to bring someone we are forgetting and that is Melody Prince Ahmed Rushdi, a great playback singer from Pakistan. Ahmed Rushdi is considered to be one of the most versatile singer of south asia. His voice quality was amazing and I hear critics saying that nobody competes him in giving expressions to the melody. Once famous music director Nisar Bazmi said that Mohammad Rafi and Ahmed Rushdi are amongst those few singers from south asia whose voices cannot form “cones” once they rose to touch the higher notes. Ahmed Rushdi is also credited as ‘Magician Of Voice’ because he was master of all moods. As far as Kishore Kumar is concerned, he is also a great name but no comparison with Rafi. Kisore gained fame during early 1970s when Rafi was not singing that much due to obvious reasons. I think Kishore’s name comes on third position after Mohammad Rafi and Ahmed Rushdi.
Sir sid
I can’t ignori kk fans because i am having sun light with me that is Mohd Rafi and they are only have a light made by media ….
i never said anything wrong about KK as a singer also I like KK as actor.
I like the the best as mD i like SJ,As actor Mr Bachchan,as female singer Lata ji,offourse i like many more but on my list they are number one..
Mohd rafi is like sun light when sun light comes out we will not see the stars and moon light
@dhani ram:
that piece of info is the best new i’ve heard all day!
UNKNOW:
did you read what the kk fans wrote?
PRATIKHA (4 days ago) :
Kishoreda is? the best singer,Rafi with his boring voice is nothing in front of the genius Kishoreda.
doovle (4 days ago):
I really dont understand the fascination? Rafi fans have with his voice. Sure he was a great classical singer but thats about all he had. No variation whatsoever. He sounded almost identical in every song he sang. Unless he wasnt given a superhit composition to sing by the music director he sounded very average. He sounded feminine, no bass, no depth. Kishore could have turned a rubbish composition in2 a work of genius.
Just reading the above posts shows you how brain dead some kk fans are. so please ignore these morons!
Odd! only 215 posts but the link i clicked on said 230 posts.. mods plz update!
also yes sudip mm lata is a fantastic combo tho i have not heard many songs.. can you tell me abt the range of songs the duo did? thanks.
Dear anil
on farishta channel of radio world space a three part interview with santoor maestro Pandit Shiv Kumar,Padam vibhushan,was broadcast over three saturdays recently.shiv kumar is of shiv hari duo fame film music composer also.shiv kumar is among the top classicists in the country.the only one singer that he praised in his marathon interview was rafi sahib.he didn’t say a word in praise of any other film singer including lata.with such classical heavyweights certifying rafi’s greatness,do we need to bother about the ranting and raving of hoi ploi?
Respected Anilji,
I read your comment and I totally agree with your point. I personally believe as I have mentioned earlier ; singing is a gift of GOD! Not every has it , not to the extent of Rafi Sahib. I can’t imagine actually any1 with minimal classical training sing with fully classically trained professionals , sing Raag Darbari etc. I mean if people do not agree with me , then just go to youtube , play Raag darbari , or various raags in which Rafi sahib has sung and then compare the notes to Rafi Sahab’s rendered song ; you will be amazed. Another thing I would like you to point to the classical singer you were mentioning ; have her listen to the song : “kaash khawabon mein hi a jao” , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZEcaElty8s
Just pay attention to the lower notes , and ask her if any training in the world could help in producing such lower notes. Aisay notes khuda deta hai yaar bus khuda deta hai.
Another one is : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMRzGgBR7yE
and as someone in the comments rightly pointed that the sa during the beginning of the raaga gungkali is so high that even trained professionals might have trouble with it , so to sum it up rafi sahib is one in a million.. and truly god gifted.
Well said ……………………mohd Rafi like a sun when sun comes out we will not able to see moon and stars…
Facts are facts and no one can change facts. Rafi sb is unmatchable.
Rafi Sb…..Zindabaad.
Regards,
-Imran-
To KK fans by KK himself
In KK voice
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioSOHB0HeTU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd1_yG9k11w
In Mohd Rafi Voice
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvW7LbUidao&feature=related
We are happy at mohd rafi site why we should visit KK site and what we have there we are not able to write there the true there.
As you know that KK changed his name and became a Muslim because a girl so shame.
If am not wrong they gave KK award last time to great actor Manoj Kummar for not using KK voice so shame to KK fans and I hope next award to Raj Kapoor after that to shammi Kapoor or Naushand who used KK only for one song so shame………………….
KK stop to sing for Mr Bachchan but the loser was KK but when mohd Rafi stop to sing for Dilip kumar but KK was not able gave magic to Dilip Kumar…also Dilip Kumar lost his place……..
Your RD Burman never was at the top but you KK fans made him at top also RD Burman switch to Mohd Rafi when KK was not able give him great songs as done by Mohd rafi please go to history you will see that RD used mohd Rafi more than KK from 1977 to 1980 so shame
I think KK is good singer but you KK fans force us to say the truth which we don’t to say it also so shame to KK fans that KK sang only for money
mohd Rafi like a sun when sun comes out we will not able to see moon and stars
all of you damn don’t create any nuisance and don’t try to write this type of vulgar language or anything about rafi saab saab baap baap hata hai you dirty mind
“mount everst jitna ucha uth jaye rahta aasman se nache hai
hire nikalta hai koyle ki khan se par uski chamak or uska rang kabhi phika nahin padta”.
samjhe you all
i am quote this statements who jealous the legendary singer “rafi saab” and trying to be x smart
please don’t try to make dirty this rafians site just go to hell you all who hate rafi saab
BINU SIR they are disgusting don’t think about them they are bloody mad dogs just think of rafi saab feel them i request to all of you guys who love rafi saab
please don’t give any reply those who trying to criticize or trying to show himself by using vulgarize language
BINU SIR please take care and my friends who love rafi saab a lot
Dear Friends,
Let’s not abuse great Artist and a great singer Kishore Da, it is very well documented that he was too fond of Rafi Sahab, and the *only* HF personality who reacted so sharply on the stupid comments by Biswas and Jagjeet. Of course i like him for his lovely contribution to HF as well.
As for Kishore fans, no matter where they write, they mostly write a sort of garbage, so let’s safely ignore them and enjoy discussing Rafi Sahab Gems here.
50 great voices: send your nominations
Rafians,
“Between Oct. 5 and Oct. 16, we’re asking you — NPR listeners and readers — to tell us who in the whole world possesses the most beautiful, singular voice you have ever heard. Leave your picks, along with a sentence defending each choice and a link to an audio clip if possible, in the comments below, or email GreatVoices@npr.org.”
Please post your choice as a comment in the following link or submit your nomination to the email address (GreatVoices@npr.org)
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=113301632&ps=cprs
I would ask all rafinans to send their nominations.
kishore fan jab paagal khane se nikalta hai to woh “courageous” ho jaata hai and bak bak bak bak karne lagta hai. sleep me aur jagte waqt, woh gillie gillie akka , gillie gillie akka bhi karta hai……..
hamare moderator saaheb ko duwa do ke yahan kishore paaglon ko bhi yahan space milta hai…………..
one more real life “clown” amidst us like kishore’s acting in movies….., enjoy the fool’s paagal-pan…….
Kishorefan , you guys come here bcoz you have ‘khujli’, tumko hazam nahi hota ke tumhari site pe koi nahi aata aur koi article post nahi karta naahi koi itne comments deta hai , so you visit this site and on seeing rafisaab’s popularity you go crazy and write your stupPid comments.
Is the moderator same for this site and the kishore kumar site. Could anybody clarify please. I had got this doubt because, in this page on the top if you click kishore kumar, it goes directly to his site.
JUST LIKE KISHORE HAD “MAJOR” DRAWBACKS IN PLAYBACK SINGING THE KISHOR SITE TOO HAS MAJOR and definitive shorticomings…..grow up kishore frogs is my message to them . also, thank the mohdrafi.com moderator for giving u room for all ur stupid and ignorant lines.
Jokers r Ignored Mr Nair,for we don`t like cheap comedy (ki)shores or noise,Thanx for ur advice!!!
Post 217: We are not interested at all in KK site…. Better you go there and try to write some nice and/or interesting articles…. as no one needs you here. So, try to understand, and leave this site.
Hello rafi lovers,
same stories, hence no serious taking. We courageously write here because we have facts. You fans cannot come to kishore site, because you know very well what you will get there.
You are absolutely right Cherian saab. I would be the happiest person at every single growing fan-following of Rafi Saab. He is not just a singer but like a soulmate to me. I am just trying to bring the youth angle here. How are they being kept away from true gems like Rafi Saab. Since youth is the future of our country and they will only carry the legacy of Rafi Saab ahead, we should not turn blind eye to this fact. I really appreciate the effort of Rafi Foundation in trying to materialize this big task in various ways.
Thanks,
Samina
Post 199: ARRE BHAI, ANDHA (BLIND) AND BHAIRA (deaf) KA ACTING KARNEWAALA KISHORE frog KO “SACHAAI” kya DIKHEGA aur kya samjehga music ke baare me???
he needs to clean his ears first and then listen to music. please dont take these “jokers” seriously.
Jelous fans of Kishore Kumar,,,,,,u r here determined to remain misconducted and also defame great kishore kumar by ur mindless statements,,,Kishore kumar always concider rafi sahab greatest and kishore kumar is no where compare to rafi sahab,,either with popularity or class,,u Apple merchant,,,u compared Rafi sahab with apple,saying people may get fed up of apple so is rafi sahab,,,,,,,,this is nothing but imaginative stupidity that is sickness of ur mind,,,
,u know when a person become very sick n weak,,the person don`t like apple anymore out of sickness n physical disability,,,,,But does it ever harm Apple???? Apple is always in market and will remain in market for its taste n usefullness,,,,n so is Rafi sahab,,but u sicks can never understand it,,,,,but even ur sickness can be cured by rafi sahab`s voice,,,but u don`t desrve Rafi sahab`s song,,,as u don`t have respect for people discriminating lover of musical art by saying them old n young is ur frustration,,,U apear to be a materialistic freak for to u Good human being is of no importance,,,and u attacked saintly nature of rafi sahab,,,,now take my advice u leave music altogather u don`t deserve it,,,,just go and eat some apple,,,it would make u healthy,,,only in healthy Body u`ll have healthy mind,,,,go enjoy apple….
Saminaji:
As the respected gentlemen here have ponted out, the number of memberships in orkut/face book communities or the popularity in campus is not a true indicator of real popularity. For a singer, the indicator of real popularity is his/her appeal across various section of true (or serious) music lovers- across genders, age-groups, regions etc. Looking from this angle, Rafisahab leads by miles fom any other Indian singer (including Lataji). I am a Keralite who can’t speak fluent Hindi and who can’t really tolerate most of the Hindi movies. But listening to Rafisahab is almost a ritual and I can’t have enough of it and I’m not the only one in my state who share this passion.
Hamzaji:
I was debating the same thing with a friend of mine (who happens to be state-level prize winner in classical singing). Rafisahab was so gifted by the Almighty that he reached a stage (with limited training) which singers as great and as thoroughly trained as Mannada and Das sir think they have not reached. This friend was explaining to me the complexity in executing those slow and subtle ‘taans’ of ‘sari khushiyan hain…..’. She says all the training in the world doesn’t equip one to do that song the way Rafisahab did.
Post 199 is extremely annoying, disgusting and repulsive. To use sentences like “……. I have never heard anybody praising or remembering rafi to the extent some rafi fans are projecting here, excepting few die hard rafi fans (that too mainly old generation people) rafi is not remembered by many today ……. “ is blatant and shameless exhibition of ignorance or should we call it mental bankruptcy? The writer goes on to compare music and singing to food habits. What an ultimate degradation of thought process!!.
But perhaps may be the only purpose of the post is to create some chaos. Some people with sadistic tendencies do draw pleasure in doing such negative activities.
We all Rafi fans have nothing against Kishore or any other singer. But these Kishore fans ….. loose the sense of logic in putting forward their view point.
In this regard it will not be out of place to reproduce below my post which I sent to KK site nearly a month ago and till date it has not made its appearance at that site. The post is a comment on a misleading article (The Divine voice of ‘Devotional’ Kishore) wherein the writer has tried to project Kishore as an excellent Bhajan singer…. What a joke!!!
The post is:
I am basically a music lover but leaned more towards Rafi. Today for the first time I visited this site and read this article. I respect writer’s devotion to KK (whatever be the reasons) and have no issues on that. Everyone is entitled to his or her likes and dislikes. That is the reason I disliked the war of words on the ‘other community site’ (that is how this writer calls it). But I find that same thing is happening here also, in fact more vigorously and more aggressively.
Leaving the mud slinging part apart, what shocked me on this site is (and in this article) is that in a systematic and orchestered way the mediocrity is glorified. KK’s devotional songs that are mentioned in write-up (for example Bhole o bhole…., krishna Krishna bolo Krishna….., “Jai Bholenath Jai Ho Prabhu” etc.) do not come even in the category of ‘good songs’ (leave aside dubbing them as ‘classics’). I know all KK fans are going to jump on this. The write-up is a poor attempt to project KK as a singer who could also sing bhajans (which was not his forte… let us admit it).
Kishore has many great songs to his credit. No one denies his talent… but let us also admit his limitations. The site should concentrate more on his good work rather than trying hopelessly to project him above other stalwarts.
Lalit Ganpathy’s posts are in poor taste. If he says that he can sing ‘Man tadpat hari darshan ko aaj…’ better than Rafi…. well I can only sympathize with his sense of self-judgement. Naushad must be a fool not to have discovered Mr Lalit Ganapaty.
And then there is one Mr. Paramjit …. left to him he might resort to real hard core gaalis.
Trust me I like Kishore very much. But this kind of amateurish and at times fanatic approach will only hurt Kishore’s reputation
Adaab Rafi !
To all music lovers and Rafi poojaris…
The post of the 199 made amusing reading and felt like some ignorant soul and frustated person who is envious of the evergrowing popularity of Faristha Rafi sahab……
Iam from south and we come across show like Rafi – Nite which are always packed to the hilt. if anyone comes for the tickets at the last minute the person unfortunately doesnt get the same.
Iam not referring to sonu Nigam show or SPB saab show as tribute to their guruji but talented singers from South who accompanied by local talented musicians conduct Rafi sahab ki Yaadein and needless to say the brand name of the legend of legends is so stronger even after 29 years of his departure that music lovers want more shows…
Rafi sahab is popular where retro-music is liked and pls do not go by the orkut babes or some twitter figure as u will be surprised to note that more than 23 lakhs babes of the groups like himesh Reshmiya…
So should we conclude that this singer is popular than Rafi sahab, Lataji or any other legends ?
Kundan lal Saigal started the playback singing which was continued in full vigour by other artistes notably Lataji, Rafi sahab,mukeshji, Hemanda,Talat sahab,manna da, Kishoreda and Ashaji..
If you feel that way you are free to have ur opinion but do not hurt lovers of Rafi sahb by making some statements inferring from quotes…
Mannda has clearly said ‘ Rafi is better than me ”
Jai Rafi sahab Jai Hind
DEAR KISHOREFAN I FULLLY AGREE WITH YOU THAT KK IS MORE POPULAR THA RAFI SAAB IN CRASH SONGS, TWO TAKE SONGS ( RDB REFERRED TO HIM AS A TWO TAKE SINGER ), EVENTUALLY RDB & KK ARE MORE POPULAR FOR TWO TAKE : FONE TAKE HEARD AFTER SECOND TAKE NEVER HEARD
Dearest Kishorefan
I don’t understant what is wrong with you KK fans and RD Burman,If you are RD Burman fan you should know that RD had his best songs with Mohd Rafi,
So sample jest answer RD BURMAN made BY KK or KK made by RD? Rajesh Khanna and Mr Bachchan became superstar because of KK for KK songs became hit because of them?
Can you say that there is greater actor than Mr Bachchan?
we mohd Rafi fans never try to compare Mohd Rafi with KK orany other singer but you KK fans try to compare them with Mohd Rafi!!!!!
why RD Burman used Mohd Rafi more than any other singer from1977 to 1980?
Why KK said that I am Mohd Rafi fan?
many of us never saw Pela to play football but we don’t like Maradono we say Pela is greastest Football player in world!!!!!I hope you understood what me.
There are many in India when they listening Mohd rafi song they say KK is singing!!!!
I think we should feel shame when we say something bad about this great human Mohd Rafi
post 199
Dear Friend,
You seem to envy the evergrowing popularity of Rafi sahab who has mesmerised and will mesemerise not only his fans but all true music lovers across the globe.
Iam a resident of Bangalore and any musical nite associated with Rafi sahab is a total housefull. The demand for his songs are increasing inspite of the fact that he departed in 1980.
There are many youngsters who get immersed in the elixir of this melodious king and the older generation are very fortunate to be associated with the backbone of Playback singing field because of the variety n versatility he offers to sooth the soul.
We have nothing against other singers but do not get misled by your world of orkut or facebook. They are not the benchmark to ascertain anyone”s popularity. Go to villages from UP to Kerala and from Gujarat to orrissa and do the research as 90 crores indians live on the villages.
Agree fully with Priyaji that Madhuri is a gem of actress and upstart like Rakhee savant may be popular amongst Kfans who has shown his ignorant views as per post 199
Post 199….
Kishore ji ke “atma” ko dukh dene ke waaste ek baar phir yeh paagal chooha yahan par aa gaya hai.
Post 199, kishorefan
The point I was trying to make was that kishore was unnecessarily being hyped by media which influence popularity. Priya in the above post gave perfect example in rakhi sawant who is being popularized by media despite the fact that she is ‘well we all know’. Do you get the point? Film ‘Gunda’ of mithun da which is considered a C grade movie, is the most popular movie in campus, in fact it is shown to juniors like a ritual and everybody is made to use the ‘gaalis’ of that movie. Does it mean it’s a great? The underline is media is being biased in selling kishor than Rafi saab and todays youth take pride in having wierd taste. But Rafi saab sells himself despite zero media support. Does it ring a bell??? Thanks to one elective in our curriculum in which we were made to listen to various gems of rafi saab . many of my batchmates started wondering if such magical numbers existed? They started playing those songs on youtube, most popular being ‘aise toh na dekh’. They literally went crazy at that song. If only they had heard it before on radio/TV it would beaten any kishore/lata song… In fact, if you guys have little respect for kishor and want him not to toss with uneasiness in his grave (it’s a metaphor), stop such illogical comments… May God give peace to both Rafi and Kishor.
Bottomline is :
MEDIA impies BIAS
MEDIA HYPE implies POPULARITY/POLITICS
POPULARITY doesn’t imply GREATNESS
GREATNESS implies RAFI SAAB
FUTURE implies RENAISSANCE of MUSIC in the form of RAFI…
Post 199… kishor fan : u are being just jealous, jealous and jealous. go to sleep baby else jal jal ke mar jaaoooge…..
Post 199: Rafi Saheb is still popular and will remain so. KK was a good singer, but Rafi Saheb had some extra talent that KK did not have. KK himself had admitted that Rafi Saheb was best…. so….? Rafi Saheb was a good human being and best singer no doubt at all.
Dear ANONYMOUS KISHOREFAN,
I have been so far dead against writing anything on articles or posts comparing Rafi with Kishore or other singers. But for once I would like to mention with reference to your post 199. You mentioned being a nice human is nothing great!!!! Dear sir-if it so easy as you have mentioned this world would have been a much more better place to live. All scriptures, saints’ jobs would become so easy if being a nice human being is so easy!!
It is because of Rafi sahab being such a great human being every fan of his loves him so much. In the cut throat world of film and film music , he shone like a beacon of virtues. Assuming for a second that Rafi was not the best singer and was not so popular why, dear sir, there are so many artcles and posts in this site whereas the other sites about other singers( who as you say is very popular) does not have so many articles or posts.
One last line, I listen to the songs of Kishore , Mukesh ,Talat, Manna da, Hemant kumar(and I really some of the good songs of Kishore also) but I would never say anything bad about the other singers just because I love Rafi more than all others. We all hear Rafi with our hearts and not our ears, and hence whatever others may say, and even if the entire world says that there are many better singers than Rafi, I (and like me many million Rafi fans) would still love him more as a human being first and then as the best playback singer the world has ever seen
Hey.
I have been reading through the comments… There is something I would like to point out in particular. As someone has said that Rafi Sahib was not as strong in terms of singing as compared to Lata mangeshkar or Manna Dey. I would like you all to see one specific interview which is very recent , I think it dates May 2009. In this interview Manna Dey has clearly said that Rafi sahib was unmatchable and that no one came close to him. When people argue without proofs the weight of their persuasion becomes infinitely small. I tend to oppose the latter statement , and as quoted would provide you with the link , which is as follows:
http://www.bollywoodhungama.com/features/2009/05/11/5147/index.html
This is a pretty reputable website , and I would like to quote which you all should particularly pay attention to:
“I sang classical songs better than others, but soon came a time when I was called for every kind of song along with Rafi. The rest were all great singers, but had their limitations. Rafi and I could sing everything, and he was such a gentleman. He was a better singer than me, and I will say this – that no one came even close to him! He deserved everything he got!”
I hail from Pakistan , but if there is a singer that stands out from all at least in the subcontinent that would be Mohammad Rafi Sahib. Rafi Sahib died in 1980s , which is approximately 9 years before I was born!!. Basically , people are not aware of his singing prowess. He was in his 50s in 1970′s and his singing capability relative to his prime age to some extent suffered. 1960s is believed to be the best decade for Rafi Sahib according to me. And how many 1960s , or 50s songs can you list out of Rafi Sahib ? (this is to all rafi critics) Not a lot , right?! I urge you to listen to this wonder of the world and you would convert from being a kishore fan to a rafian ; as was the case with me. Even in 1970s Rafi sahib was unmatchable , because he was naturally gifted as yesudas said , god was partial to Rafi and I believe “fankaar banta naheen hai , kudrati hota hai” To wrap it up , I am being honest “Rafi sahib is simply unbeatable” In 50s and 60s no one came close , not even Lata , or Manna.
Rafi sahib sang classical songs , semi-classical songs , bhajans (being a muslim) , high pitched songs , low pitched songs , qawwalis , ghazals , muslim naats , hamds , shabads , comedy songs , cocky songs , a farsi song , english songs , sindhi songs , marathi songs , bengali songs ………. the list goes on ,
You should open your eyes and realize the phenomenon that Pak-India ever produced.
Humza.
Kishore fan,
that is nonsense. Mohd Rafi is STILL the most requested voice on radio, I have read a few times recently.. and I dont mean the fm radio’s which are run by the 70′s kids, but the big radio stations.
plus in stardust and hero honda magazine in the polls amitabh,rafi,lata etc got the best in their fields.
amitabh ji: 60% votes for actor (male)
lata: 45% votes for femlae singer
rafi 70% votes! that proves who is really popular.
and as someone on youtube once commented: “who is kishore? i heard rafi songs being played in the famous casinos of las vegas. no sign of “kishore” here”
let us take mohd rafi’s and kishore’s funerals, singe you brought up the topic of death.
rafi’s was probably one of the biggest in india! and it was raining, mind you.
we have all seen the kishore funeral on youtube which looks more like any common function.. nothing to see here…
also these orkut communities just have almost all of the cult fans of kishore kumar…
kishore fan ,once again here to demonstrate his envyness for Rafi sahab and sick state of mind otherwise there is meaning of comparing Rafi sahab……post 199,,u can never understand nicities,,so lets only talk of music,,,,,even today no songs is more famous than that of rafiji,,for example,,on every social occassion,,from marriage to fastivals or national events it Rafi sahab`s songs thats most played,,,even romantic songs are greatly famous with both calsses n masses,,,,,gazals qawaalis,,romantic sad,,oldies etc,,,rafi rafi everywhere,
,,,A year ago and even today,,Actress named rakhi sawant makes more news ,does it mean she is more popular than aishwarya rai,Madhuri dixit etc,,,,,come out of fanatism while talking of Rafi sahab….u controversy makers!!!!
Post 182 – Hussein sheikh ji,
Everybody is going to die one day. You, me and all here.
Post 192 – correct, KK is more popular. Only some hardcore fans of rafi claim that rafi is more popular and internationally famous. I am associated with many people in the last many years, but I have never heard anybody praising or remembering rafi to the extent some rafi fans are projecting here. Excepting few die hard rafi fans (that too mainly old generation people) rafi is not remembered by many today. I have seen even old generation people, who grew up listening to rafi songs, not showing any interest today towards rafi songs. They will say, how many times we will listen the same song, I have heard it many times.
Rafi fans – everything in world is like that. Nothing is permanent. If you eat apple every day, one day you will throw it out, getting bored. Same rule applies to all things in this world – so are rafi songs.
191 – sudit dat
Manna himself claims as greater in some songs – no body can sing like me. Likewise he has praise for lata to a greater extent than rafi. It is clear. He also states that despite rafi singing some songs well, rafi was not preferred. This shows that, as being claimed by rafi fans, rafi is not that great – and much hype is being created by rafi fans.
Lata is claimed by many as the greater singer – even her popularity today is more than rafi.
Rafi fans alway repeat same story – rafi was a nice human being – so what ? there are many nice human beings in this world. Being nice has nothing to do with talent and skills of playback singing. It is altogether a different story.
Post 191…..
sudip dat : I SINCERELY HOPE TO READ A VERY BOLD ARTICLE BY U ON THE “sychopancy” of those female singers who were “insecure” but talented. Manna dey has already said a hundred times that female singers feared competition and therefore did many acts which may be termed as immoral acts.
many composers, radio presenters, lyricists, singers, journos and people in the music industry are aware of deeds and misdeeds of these persons.
male singers were more professional and friendly. the list is long but some names can be safely mentioned. talat mehmud, manna dey, hemant da, mohd rafi, kishore kumar and many more.
W salam Khaja bhai,
Thank you very much Binu and Narayan sir. I’d love to be a part of Rafi Saab’s fan club. My special greetings to all of you. I like your posts a lot. In fact I have been a passive member of mohdrafi.com for the past 8 years and have been following everything very closely. Was little busy shaping up my career which you won’t believe, wouldn’t have been possible without Rafi Saab.
Great to meet hard core Rafians like you
Samina
Samina Beti, Salam,
Rafi foundation, Banglore chapter is very active foundation. There are so many lovers of Rafi sahab over there. I have one contact , who is an ardent fan of rafi sahab. His shubh naam is Janab HV Guru Murthy. Contact him at this e-mail: hvgurumurthy@yahoo.co.in
With regards,
Die-hard fan of Rafi Sahab,
Dr. Khaja Aliuddin
Samina ji… Post 192… Please write to me , u will get the details of our bangalore unit. they are doing a great job down there.
binu nair, binus2000@hotmail.com
Post 192… Ms Samina,,,]
Referring to ur post you are welcome to join Baar Baar Rafi The Fan Club, Bangalore ,which is a non-profit organisation having more than 450 members. We do not collect any membership fees and anyone can join our club. Our email id is baar.baar.rafi@gmail.com and you can send us ur email.
Or you can sms to me at 09886779557 for more details.
P.Narayan PRO
BaarBaar Rafi Fan Club
Bangalore
PS We are also in regular touch with the founder members of Rafi Foundation Mumbai Binu Nair and Rafi Foundation all cities..
Hi samina,
Thankfully the media cannot do it’s dirty work abroad because mohd rafi already scored internationally with his “jaan pehchaan ho” being used in a cult movie. And his popularity abroad is more than any other indian singer I hear.
Remember in a poll by stardust rafi got 70% of the votes….
Well said everyone. I admire your love for rafi saab. These things disturb me because younger generation does get influenced by such media comments. They have no doubt that KK and RDB were the best. Only few (like me) who were fortunate enough to taste the elixir called Rafi Saab’s voice know his greatness. I am saying that because I belong to this generation (I am 26) and I see my age people around all the time. I am doing MBA (2nd year) at an institute in Bangalore (yeah you guessed it right). I have been in touch with many other colleges. I can hear the kind of songs people play. I do hear some Rafi songs but mostly KK. The reason being over publicity and hype by media. If only media said once that Rafi saab was the greatest or Lata/Asha accepted the fact in public, they would have been forced to think twice. They would have been curious to listen to this Legend called Rafi….
Can anyone tell me if there is a Bangalore chapter of RafiFoundation. I would love to join and help you spread this great legacy amongst youngsters. I keep posting rare Rafi gems on Facebook but hardly get the response I expect. The reason is lack of sensitization and conditioned mentality that KK is the best.
How I became a Rafian is also a very interesting story. Would post soon. Thanks a lot everyone for keeping this site alive and kicking…
Samina
Try to read between the lines in Manna’s interview (Question: Had their gender influenced their decision? )
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/city/kolkata-/Rafi-was-a-better-singer-than-me/articleshow/5085308.cms
The male singers always had “camadarie” and there was friendly competition among them. all got their chances and they proved their “true mettle” in those songs.
look at the female singers list. first, the top lady will play difficult to get. second she would recommend her second or third sister for songs which she would not sing.
many female singers lost their songs and jobs by the monopoly thus created .she “created” a cartel of singers – from her family. this is a legal crime if u care to see the rules of restricting monopoly trade practices.
taking away someones jobs or livelihood is an unpardonable crime which shall “never, never – go unpunished”.
even today, some singers are scared to talk of this lady. see what happpened to suman kalyanpur when the lady patched up with mohd rafi once again. suman was gone and gone.
even if the lady badmouths mohd rafi, tell lies and spread slanders, nothing will change rafi’s popularity. the dirt sticks on her very firmly – because mohd rafi worked on his own terms without injuring any one’s heart.
mohd rafi is a divine singer and a gift to humanity from the gods.
Much as I like to hear about miss ivy’s (mis)deeds, I seriously doubt those were her words.
—————————————
Haldar Ji, kindly search out youtube for latest Lata interview with Javed Akhtar, and you will find those words were indeed by Lata Ji only!
Yes, she herself admitted recently-on television- that she didn’t work with Burman Da for almost 14 long years, and it was Rafi Sahab who initiated that popular rift!!
Saif : This work will never end….. It can only grow inspite of many hurdles…..mohd rafi is for ever and real for many past and forthcoming generations.
binu nair
Dear Friends,
I have been reading all these posts for quite some time now. I have replied to some nasty comments written by some ‘crazy ‘elements who visit this site too.
It is very clear from their comments that they cant stop raking up controversies on our dearest Rafi Saab – the greatest ever male singer to have donned The Hindi music scene – because ‘Rafi Saab still sells ‘( these 4 words are not mine , but Binu’s). Yes, Rafi Saab still sells , no doubt about it. These crazy guys are so envious that they cant see their idols – be it KK or some others singer coming up to this level after their death. Only Rafi Saab continues to be ‘living’among us. The others are more or less forgotten, except by some die hard fans of theirs. — (Can someone listen to 5 KK songs on the trot without being bored by the monotony? Well, KK is a great singer but he has had his own limitations – that was not the case with Rafi Saab. You can go on and on listening to him , such was the range and versatility of this singer, this legend )—That is not the case with RAfi Saab- he is not only popular among the middle aged and the older class, but surprisingly, he is very popular among the younger generation – I can vouch for this with my experiences in Kerala. l am sure it must be same with most of the other states in India. Rafi Saab is light years ahead in terms of popularity even abroad- I can also vouch for this as I have spent 80% of my 47 years outside India.
These are factors which make these guys jealous, for they can never imagine their idols rising to these levels. I am very much convinced that they are writing all these nonsense here, as they have no other outlets to vent their frustrations. The moderator of this site is happy with such comments as he wants such controversial remarks to come up time and again, as it would increase the readership of our beloved Rafi Saab site. Yeah, all of them are doing us a big, big favour by further popularising an already immensely popular singer.
Be it Haldar Saab, Binu ji, Hussein Sheikh, or anyone else who is a die hard Rafi Saab fan and writes regularly in these columns, I have one thing to tell all of you. I have been a Rafi fan for 40 years now and nothing, nothing ever is going to change my feelings for the man – I am sure that is the case with all of us. Nothing under the sun will change our love for Rafi Saab !!! We never degrade ourselves to such levels that we go to those sites dedicated to other singers to badmouth them. We dont need to do it, because Rafi Saab doesnt need such cheap propaganda. The others need it and their die hard fans are polluting this great site by writing nonsense time and again.
Let them do it, they will stop it by themselves.
There are some who are ashamed of their own names and appear on this site under pseudo names, others dont dare to write their personal mail ids for fear of a backlash from we Rafi fans, – the examples of these hypocrites are so many.
let us just leave them to their own doom and let us carry on with the legacy of our RAfi Saab- we need to promote his legacy into the younger generation for it is our duty to do so. Let us do it before it is too late and when our energy levels are still on the higher side. That is the greatest tribute we could give to our beloved Rafi Saab and I personally know that Binu and company are working hard to ensure this.
Binu, keep up the good work.
Long live Rafi Saab and long live his legacy !!!!!!
Saifullah
Dubai
saif.196242@gmail.com
Post 180:
Chandra Sekhar Mani Post 180…. well said. u cant ever stop a tide. mohd rafi’s sweet melodies and songs can “never, never” be stopped by any mangeshkar or anyone else in this world. no one will ever succeed how much ever they may try with lies, slander and deception.
I have met so many composers who have the highest personal regards for rafi saaheb . I have met so many ordinary men and women who worship mohd rafi saaheb and his songs.
there are people who garlands his pictures each day at their homes along with their own gods. there is a lady who has a ration card with mohd rafi as a family member in faraway gujrat. her son is a first class magistrate and a great mohd rafi lover. many of mohd rafi lovers not only enjoy his songs but try to emulate him in their daily life like this first class magistrate.
I especially liked ur lines : “the best homage – to rafi saaheb which could be paid is – by popularising rafi songs and taking them to the new generation”. this is the second phase of the activities of the Rafi Foundation.
==============================================
Haldar Saaheeb : THE TIMES OF INDIA WIL NEVER PUBLISH SUCH LETTERS…. They are part and parcel of the ” Mangeshkar Mutual Admiration Group “. also, there is another group called the ‘RD BURMAN ADMIRATION GROUP’.
I have seen these groups presenting RDBURMAN ” sung ” songs in memorable musical events and spoiling the musical “mood” of the melody seeking listeners. they wish to present rdb as a great singer. rd burman was a great composer but never a singer in “any” sense.
these groups will go to any extent and ruin the musical sense of many. but, the ray of hope is that there are sizeable number of music lovers who “distinguishes” between the braying sounds, sub-standard musicaL OFFERINGS and the sweet yesteryear melodies.
no one can change peoples musical tastes or the fondness for mohd rafi saaheb songs in his “legendary timbre voice”.
binus
Dear Friends,
I’d request you not to react to the article by Subhash Jha; I’ve read some of his articles before and I think he is an rd-kishore chamcha. Much as I like to hear about miss ivy’s (mis)deeds, I seriously doubt those were her words. First of all, there are several factual errors in the article. For instance, lata and sd did not work together for 5 years, not for 14 years as stated in the article. Also, it is a well known fact that it was Lata who picked up a fight with Rafi, not the other way round. I have heard her admit that on tape, where she narrates the full incident. To sell their articles, the journalists know that all they have to do is to make a controversial comment on rafi and that’s what they are doing. Just imagine what our guest, who claims to be a journalist, will turn out to be. All they want to do is to rewrite history. If you are really mad about the article, you should send comments to the times of india condemning it for publishing such articles.
@post 178
O My God, I can’t believe that Lata can fall down to such levels. Lying against a deceased man who can’t even defend himself. Does she have any fear of god that she is close to end of her life. I want to like Lata but I can’t help if she keeps doing these kind of things.
Priya ji,
If lata mangeshkar praises rafi’s singing even ONCE in the mainstream media,she will be unleashing him into the new gen ears and this will mean disaster for her. She always talks abt his “niceness” or “bhaiyyaness” but never singing. She does not want to lose her naam ke vaaste title of “number one”
Similarly all singers keep sayin what a nice man he is.
Not once apart from anandji and sonu have i heard ppl talkin abt his versatility.
heck, i even remember in k for kishore them photoshopping rafi’s face with geeta dutt and stickin kishores!!
I am fed up with the darn media!
Sid
Post 178: Nothing to worry, even Lata Mangeshkar is going to die….. She is jealous for Rafi Saheb and had fought with many people…. she’s not a great human at all.
178 .Post….the lies and slanders will never last for ever. in this world there s something called purity of the soul. can lata or asha claim they played no games in the music industry and they are spotless and their souls clean as they exhibit them at the drop of the hat.
in the same interview mentioned by sudip dat lata mentions that mohd rafi had said that he would ” not” sing with lata. mohd rafi did’t announce to the world and the composers that he stopped singing with lata mangeshkar. lata didi did. and thus the mystery unfolds itself here.
she later on says in the interview that she did’nt sing with sd burman for 14 years. why ? why lata has enmity with so many singers and composers in the industry? people will think, surely they will and get their answers lata ji……
leave others. her own sister asha was stopped a day prior to the delhi trip as both were to sing ” ai mere watan ke loga” song together at the venue in front of pandit jawaharlal nehru. ashas tickets were cancelled one day prior to the decided date. she did’nt get the permission from her didi.
c.ramachandra had composed the tunes for two singers and is on record saying the facts that asha was stopped from going ahead.
mohd rafi is not there to reply to lata ji’s old tirade on him . the mangeshkars disliked mohd rafi is very clear to everybody. one reason for this is because mohd rafi was far ahead in terms of popularity and quaity singing. why the mangeshkars disliked mohd rafi is due to purely “professional jealousy” nothing else. second mohd rafi had no nakhras and would sing for free for upcoming composers/producers.
today, the whole industry remembers and sings paens of praises of mohd rafi. his songs and voice remain immortal and divine.
sorry lata lovers. i know u are aware of all these points but would never acknowledge.
I was talking about the ” purity of the soul”. well mohd rafi ‘s soul was pure as the morning dew. that’s the point i wish to make.
binu nair
It is wishful thinking to even imagine that Lataji will praise Rafi Saab from the bottom of her heart. She is undoubtly the best female hindi film playback singer of our times and within her heart she knows that if there is anyone who could outwit her in singing, it was Rafi Saab.So it is in her best interest not to talk highly of Rafi Saab. Well, KK was never in the running for first place.
So much has been discussed on the RDB and Rafi saab relationship. It is a futile discussion. Facts speak for themselves. RDB did all he could to undermine Rafi saab. It was a frustrating period for Rafi saab followers.Well, one can imagine how let down Rafi Saab would have felt.
The best homage we can pay to Rafi Saab is to popularize his songs to the younger generation. Rafi Saab’s voice will do the rest. Anybody who listens with an open heart will be captivated and become a fan like us.
I will also take this opportunity to thank Sheikh Hussein bhai for so generously sharing his collection of Rafi saab songs.
I think Rafi fans should demand an apology from Lata.
I do not care if the incident was true or not. It is common civility to avoid slandering dead people because they are incapable of self defence. And the whole episode could have been narrated differently as just a disagreement.
Lata’s interview makes Rafi a villain.
Unparalleled mud-slinging by Lataji:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/bollywood/news-interviews/God-wanted-me-to-sing-Lata/articleshow/5063966.cms
Poor Rafi.. he can’t even defend himself.
Priyaji..
Absolutely right… all the media of channels are concocted and tell a different story..
If lataji doesnt mention Rafi sahab’s name so be it… Do you think that makes any difference to the sun and the star which the public n fans love him…
Rafi sahab is reverred like God and if his greatest co-singers like lataji n ashaji doesnt mention.. Let us say that they are unfair to themselves and not to us…
Talking of Rafi sahab is like showing a candle to the Sun-god and nothing else…
So do not get depressed… infact many like us have stopped watching TV- interviews which are always biased…
For the interviewers music starts and ends which Panchamda… So if the tv media is ignorant of Shankar jaikishen or Madan mohan or o.p.nayyar they are only making a laughing stock not the true music lovers like you…
Infact in the total recall of Times now of s.d.burmanda the later half they spoke highly about Rafi sahab ( surprsingly it was babul supriyo talking of Pyaasa song ) and other artistes also acknowledged the great association of Burmanda and Rafi sb
Narayan
all r against Rafi sahab,how un fair r they with rafi sahab!,,yesterday was lataji`s B`day,,,I watched almost every show on every channel,,not even a single time anyone mentioned name of Rafi sahab in relation with Lataji`s song,,,Both Mangeskar sister,,took 100s times name of Kishore kum,,not even a single time Rafi sahab,,,recently on SD burman`s B`day,,,in SD burman tribute show,,they only show kishore-lata song,,not even a single Rafi sahab song,,,,strangly we all know SD burman were not what he is if there were not Rafi sahab playbacked on him,,,everyone know how openly Naushad sahab ,,Ravi ji,,etc,,praised Rafi sahab,,Lata mangeshkar when aksed about muc director,,only mentioned Salil choudhary and both burmans….strange not even a single time she mentioned Naushad sahab…..
.
P..S—recently on this site I publiced Lataji`s interview on Rafi sahab punya-titi in local daily(that is read by very few people),,in which she addressed Rafi sahab as Bhaiya and praised him,,,,but it appears she praise rafi sahab under the curtain but when it comes main stream media she don`t even take name of Rafi bhaiyaa,,,for example,,it was rafi sahab,,who when came to knew about Lataji`s urdu is very weak arranged a urdu teacher for Lata mangeskar just to help his co singer,,,in lata`s early struggle of career,,but yesterday on CNBC,,when talks of urdu teacher came,,she took name of everyone including Dilip sahab,,but not even a single time talked about Rafi sahab,,,but on other ocassion with lesser media aattention she is being heard mentioning that Rafi sahab sent a urdu teacher for her that she was surprised by his charitable nature,,,strange lata ji,,even in 80 year of ur birth u still don`t have peace of mind and envy with rafi sahab!!!!
Dear Usha,
“Ponch kar ashq ” has been a favourite song especially since the lyrics are so inspiring.
Perfectly written, I agree with every word.
Rafifan1:
yes exactly. Rafi saahab is the greatest singer I have ever heard, be it hindi,english,japanese,tamil,etc He is the best.
Anil ji:
).. only time will tell.. let a few years pass and I’ll see which one I’ll remember more because it takes a while for a song to grow on me…
Paao choon lene do is what I downloaded recently. Both tunes are magnificent in my opinion, but jo waada kiya I feel has the magic for some reason – perhaps it is because I have heard it a long time back.. abt 1 year, or if the melody had a better balance between simplicity and intricacy(paaon chu lene do is more intricate according to me) or whether the content (that is, eternal love) means more to me (note: i do not know what paao chu lene do is abt
Kapil:
Yeah Roshan saahab made fantastic tunes(unlike his son, he could make original melodies which were of a higher standard) I am going to look for more songs by him sung by rafi saab.. the ones i know are man re tu, jo wada kiya,paao chu lene do and dil jo na keh saka.. oh and of course zindagi bhar nahin bhoolegi woh barsaat ki raat.
Sid
please all of you them stop these kindly stop these type of wording the people you have think it’s really disgusting i unable to understand why r u saying like these that kishore is better than rafi saab look both r legendary personality. they both never think that who was better look there are many god and they plays their role i.e lord shiva is doing their duty of destroyer brahamaji is doing their duty of creator. every person came here to give you something do his duties
please stop these nonsense our politicians this things was doing it. it will not suits you RAFI SAAB & KI SHORE DA both are part of god worship them and think them of they are always near to you
i am requesting you please stop it don’t do these
you know in real life RAFI SAAB & KI SHORE DA both are good friends
please stop your quoting one another
Sid,
Same here
…”Jo vaada kia”, in fact whole Taajmahal soundtrack is my daily dose, it takes me to trance as well … Roshan was such a masterpiece composer yar … and of course Rafi Ji and Lata Ji, divine as always !
168,,,,yes no problem with kishore kumar ji,,why just kishore kum,Mukesh Manna de,,Latajietc,,no problem with anyone,,only respect and love,,,,,,but one day I met a kishore fan,,,who felt I hate kishore kum,,,only for the reason that I adress Rafi sahab as sahab but kishore da or kumar without sahab,,,,,,the point is kishore fan are so illogical as they wanna see kishore kum as a better singer than Rafi sahab,after all there is some difference in the way we look at any induvidual,,it never mean loving one hating other,,,,,,and when they compare,,,, certain “insecurity” captures `em,,because heart of their heart know the difference even comparing Rafi sahab in 70s with kis kum in 70s only,,,,,forget about 60s and 50s or late 40s……….hence,,they react and talk so irrelevent and their querrels play major role for not allowing Rafi sahab having same status of Bharat ratna that some of other singers have…
Sid:
There is another masterpiece in the same movie- ‘paao choo lene do…’. Personally speaking, this one is even better than its more famous counterpart.
Roshan-Rafi is a terrific team, rivalling any other combos in terms of quality and popularity. Yes, Rafisahab wasn’t a one-horse cart; he had so much to offer that every MD (almost all of them) of the golden era found him the best medium to articulate their creativity to the people. Going further, it wouldn’t be an over-statement to say that Rafisahab stretched their artistic creativity to the limit.
167 – sid ji,
correct. jo wada kiya woh nibhana padega – rafi is great – even than lata. Rafi is rafi.
Side-Kick of Detective jee says : the moderator of this site has blocked his post since it’s about binu nair…….( it’s a lie in toto ).
please do not lie here…..please go ahead and publish it in the other – otherwise deserted site…….
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may i say on record that we all love kishore kumar and some of his great songs, his acting talents and many other attributes. as youngsters in abu dhabi we had a ball of a time when kishore ji regaled the indian crowds at the beach side resort on a starry night. those thoughts would never go away.
but this thought always stays : why are few kishore fans so terrible, so sectarian, so much one sided fanatics and bent upon mischief…. is it due to some kind of “insecurity”…. invading their minds????
binu nair
I was just listening to jo wada kiya from taj mahal and It got me into a trance. I felt like I was in heaven.
Whether rdb liked rafisaab or not is not important as mohd rafi doesn’t need to rely on any single composer to excel,( example this song is composed by the late roshan saahab.) He will excel as he is mohd rafi.
thanks,
Sid
My post 165,,,
Sorry typo error..
Should read learned n knowledgable Rafi encylopedia
Adaab Rafi !
Well said Priyaji.. You have truly echoed the sentiments of true music lovers and specially women who are considered n respected as goddess in our country…
I have always felt that female gender had that special extraordinary quality to enjoy all fine arts which includes music,dance,painting,craft,rangoli and decoration….
No wonder we have many leaned n knowledgable Rafi encyclopedia in our fan club who are better than the male in their profound knowledge..
Thanks for ur great insights…
post 157,,Mr binu nairji,,,,,,even a single verse from Rafi sahab`s divine voice would make this site a holy one for I know,u know,,and many of us know why so many adress Rafi sahab`s voice as voice of God,,,,,reason wouldn`t be enough to explain this fact,,as Rafi sahab`s voice was perfect and his singing,,,he could sing in anyway,even the way alien to other singers,,,and his personality,,,,such a saintly and divine person ,,,,,,,Rafi sahab is God`s finnest creation,,,,,,if these bugs understand it or not,it hardly matters………………and feminine,being a women I can say feminine is not a slang,infact feminine is worshippable as also its durga puja everywhere in bengal,,,,,but as far as rafi sahab is concerned,plz everyone,listen to Rafi sahab`s romantic song,,,,desh bhakti song,,religious song,,and sad song,,songs for nature etc,even insane man would loose his own masculinty to utter dirty words for such humble person,,,,masculinity is something that makes a women restless and rafiji`s voice can make every women restless,,and what could be more manly than the song,,kad chale ham fida,,,,,,Rafi sahab`s voice is beyond limit of men and female anyone who has heart and sould would surly like this divine voice,,,,,,,,,,,,,yes on reverse I`ve seen many boys in my native city,,,getting attracted by hard voice of certain singer,,,,something that attract boys could be termed as???????????,
detective ji : atleast now agree that the “inhouse singer” and the singer with the “regional flavour” were also responsible for the downslide in r d b ‘s music career.
mohd rafi played his part too well and gave some great hits to the composer and u will agree that the usage of multi singers by l & P duo, gave them a bigger innings, greater hits and bigger banners during the seventies, eighties and the nineties.
we would like to hear from you about the music of sholay and about seeta aur geeta. how many times people would like to hear the numbers from the above films??? has it not become “bhule bisare geet”….?????
binu nair
Post 150
for the attention of the Regional Bigot ) If at all r d burman used so many instruments/artists too well “then” his music would’nt have failed him so thoroughly and bombed heavily after the initial promising dream start he got in his career.
the above named men and women are the cream from the music industry. i guesss u are saayyyinggg that rd burman “lost his musical moorings” (very tragic indeed ) inspite of having the best musicians around and in his team.
u must now also give us the picture of his – failed musical offerings vis-a-vis his two main “constant” singers.
binu nair
Manish:
1.Aah I wondered why the singers sounded so horrible in sholay
2.Totally agree with you here. I do not hate kishore,asha or lata just because I listen to rafisaab the most.
If that were the case then naushad,sj, op, roshan etc all did not like kk
MR.J.K.BHAGCHANDANI……. MANY thanks for hitting the nail on its head. Mr.arghya the regional fanatic must concentrate on “the other” website and work for its popularity since it is dwindling in popularity, attention and readership. the group leader has been saying : “this is his last post” but can’t really leave the party. he loves to stay back to spoil the rafians tribute party.
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mr.kajal chakraborty has worked in the film industry for 30 long years as a “violinist”. he too has lots of rich anecdotes to say about the industry and mohd rafi. he is my school pal and i have seen him carrying the instrument at various places for recitals or for work.
Detective : please check the authencity of this and report back .
also, check whether there was a person by the name mr.suresh yadav in the music industry. my query is : which instrument he played and achieved fame in????
please do some investigations mr.detective and report to this popular site. if the investigations are good – we would give u some more jobs and appoint u as our “consultant detective” .
binu nair….. mumbai…
“voice of sholay”
iirc, the audio recording was messed up for that movie. sholay was supposed to have some special quality sound and the audio tapes were taken to london where the engineers screwed up .
“rd/salil did not like rafi – its a fact”
the more correct way to word it is that rd & salil liked other singers more. rd did not have active personal issues or an agenda against rafi. however rd was a human with his own opinions and tastes and liked to other singers better. this is not to say he did not like rafi. of course, in the industry all that matters is who you like more since you can have only one singer render your solo composition. i like to listen to rafi because he’s my favorite but that doesn’t mean i have anything against other singers. if i had my radio station, for a given month, i may play 70% songs of rafi & lata. so i am indirectly, through my taste, promoting rafi & lata over other singers. however, that is not my active intention. same with rd.
I have been watching with dismay the ongoing fight. At the onset I must say that Mr. Arghya has taken up an issue that is unethical to the extent of being horrendous. He is simply hitting below the belt. Agreed that some posts of Rafi fans too have been abusive (including the recent one from Mr. Sandeep Nadkarni) but they are mostly in retalliation to Mr. Arghya’s continued mischief. First Mr. Arghya is sending irritating posts and provoking all to write something in retaliation, then he quotes those retaliatory posts to prove his point. What a crooked smartness!! I just have one question: What will Mr Sandeep Nadkarni achieve by his alleged posturing? Let me remind Mr. Arghya that this a very sacred site dedicated to our Rafi saab. And as the site title (Rafians Tribute to a true Maestro) very appropriately defines the purpose of the site. We the Rafi fans are also true Rafi followers. We trust Mr. Nadkarni just as Rafi saab used to trust all people. Please Mr. Arghya what you have started is simply in bad taste.
About Post 145 : He and his friends are regional fanatic’s it seems – not music buffs . dear moderator : he who calls mohd rafi’s voice as feminine – ought to be barred from this site.
please also delete all the controversial posts for the sake of “purity of the site”.
lets breathe some fresh air.
binu nair
post 149,
simply despicable.
post 150,
is this the complete list of all the musicians rd used from 1961 to 1994? u talked abt foul-mouthing rd/salil. most of them were never asked and did u meet all of them? how do u know? rd/salil did not like rafi – its a fact. but salil maintained that rafi was the better of the two while rd said it was kishore.
post 145 says a last post from me. post 150 n 151 is again coming from the same source. i respect n blv arghya very much. so people, plz understand thr are two or more arghya’s posting here. be selective when u address arghya(s). lolz
Post 145 : the bug says that post no.145 is his last post. but he likes to stay on and refuses to leave.
the bug must perhaps listen to the hit tunes of films mentioned earlier like ishq, ishq, ishq, heera panna, warrant and if he still has time do a research on the 25 flop films of r d burman — on why those films flopped and where al his guru went in search of job in his attempt to come back in his second innings career.
mr.sandeep nadkarni is a small fry of the film industry. he was never as big as rdb or salil da – he never claimed that. so this bug must concentrate on his gurus works and come out with an acceptable post mortem of their works not fight with mr sandeep ji.
i again request this bug to listen to his masters songs and that hoarse voice of sholay and others – for his mental peace rather than quarelling on this site.
binu nair
dear mr araghya, i have never used the name dr. ashish kapoor or katrina on any web site ever. i have the confidence in my own name and have the guts to put my tel no at the end of my posts. i am not like u , who would use aliase’s to write. in fact u r the one who contradicts his own statements on every post. i have never abused any one on any site and neither do i have to,because truth always stands tall. infact it is u who writes bullshit about our rafi sahaab. i had challenged u on the kk website to come up with one religious song of kk and i will give u two. now i challenge u to come up with one patriotic song of kk and i will give u two of rafi sahab’s. in fact u come up with a song in any situation , and i will give you two of rafi sahab’s.
have the guts of calling me up and i shall set right your statistics about rafi sahab.
now when u talk of shri nadkarni sahab, well every body in our fraternity knows about his credentials and his credibility and also his contribution viz-a-viz hfm. u must have spoken to some disgruntled element about him and i am sure that your contact would be only as wierd as u r. and more over, rafi sahab did not need md’s like salil choudhary or anil biswas or rdb to prove himself, in fact the truth is that these md’s were forced to take rafi if there was a difficult song to sing. your “guru” also took rafi sahab’s services for even his home productions, and the ever generous rafi sahab took only 1 re as his fees.
i am the same person who had given u anil da’s daughter’s tel no in the other website. she is the convener of a musical group called as “sangeet smriti”, and on the 4th of april she conducted a rafi night. that’s his popularity!!!.
rdb’s first movie as a md was “chhote nawab’ and all the songs in the male voice have been sung by our rafi sahab. hear the songs and then u will realise the magnanimity and greatness of his voice.
grow up araghya ji………feel free to give a call (missed) any time.
ashish kapoor, vice president, rafi foundation memorial society, delhi.
ashkpr@hotmail.com , tel= 09810087414, 09212587414
yes, sandeep nadkarni.. That is what i wanted to know!!
Your language now bears the testimony that you are not genuine at all..the latest entry has proved that.
This can not come from a 77 year old ailing person, rather from a frustrated soul who has been exposed badly.
Time to leave. But this forum has lost all its shine after your last post, sandip!! Do care to check out the latest musicians list i have given… And dont worry, khel abhi khatam nahi hua..not here anymore, but somewhere else…
Some left outs from previous posts:
MADAL : Ranjit Gazmer alias Kancha.
SPANISH GTR : Bhanuda, Bhupinder, Ramesh Iyer.
ELECTRIC GTR : Ramesh Iyer, Dilip Naik.
ORGAN : Kersi Bawa.
MATKA : Indru Atma.
PEDAL MATKA : Vijay Indurkar(he MADE this instrument)
HARMONICA : Bhanuda, Pancham.
TUMBA : Manya Barve.
TABLA : Bhavani Shankar.
DRUMS : Buggy Lord, and in the 80s/90s Franco.
Here, still a “legend of legends” is missing!!
Shukla ji… Yes, I never carried any of those controversial topics.. Surprising, people fall ill only when something serious comes upon, otherwise they are very much fit and fine to abuse legends..
By the way, here is a big list of Pancham’s musicians in the 70s. From true sources. One “legend”‘s name is surprisingly missing!!( I can also do copy -paste a lot..lol..this list is not made by me, but taken from an authentic source)
Tabla: Devichand Chauhan, Amrutrao Katkar, Homi Mullah, Chandrakant Satnak, Deepak Naik, Indranath Mukherjee, Vijay Katkar, Nitin Shankar.
Tabla, Dholak: Shashikant, Iqbul Khan
Dholak: Dubey, Roshan
Drummer: Franco Vaz, Buggy Lord, Vancy, Trilok Gurtu, Lesli Vaz
Bongo: Kawas Lord
Hulgi, Dhol, Chanda: Ganpatrao Jadhav
Bangla Dhol: Oboni Dasgupta
Tabla, Tarang: Janardan Abhyankar
Ghatam, Matka: Indra Atma
Mridangam: Jairaman
Tumba: Ravi Gurtu
Tabla, Pakhwaj: Bhavani Shankar Singh
Madal: Ranjit Gazmer alias Kancha
Flute — Hari Prasad Chaurasia, Suman Raj
Mouth Organ — Bhanu Gupta; R D Burman
Trumpet — Castro; Joseph; Kishore Sodha, Raj Sodha
Clarinet — Hussain Durbar
Shehnai – Sharad Kumar
Piano — Louis Banks, Lussila
Synthesizer — Louis banks; Kesri Lord
Organ — Kersi Lord
Accordian — Kersi Lord
Violin: Uttam Singh, Babloo Chakravarty
Guitar:
Electronic Guitar – Sunil Kaushik, Dilip Naik
Lead (Hawaiian & Lead) – Bhupinder Singh,
Acoustic & Bass – Ramesh Iyer , Charanjeet Singh
Rhythm – Bhanu da
Dholak, Conga & Bongo – Nitin Shankar
Taar Shehnaai – Dekhni Tagore
Sarod – Zarine Daruwala
Sitar – Arvind Mayekar
Sarangi – Sultan Khan
Mandolin – Manohari Singh, Prodipto , Kishore Desai , Mustafa
Swarolin – Rajendra Kumar
Trombone – Blasco Monsoret
And all those names mentioned above, Shukla ji, never foul mouthed Pancham or Salil..
Dear Friends & Admirers of Rafi Saab,
I have been closely reading & monitoring the comments of the joker of the jokers namely Arghya.
Since I did not wanted any such controversy I had almost gone out of my way in expressing sorry & regrets on my statements on dear Salilda & Panchamda, but this stupid Arghya is still bent upon his stupid ethics and is still enjoying & roaming in this beautiful site as if this site is his personal property.
Under these circumstances I request all the dear fans & admirers of Rafi Saab to totally avoid this bug as rightly suggested by Mr Haldar Saab. I am definitely sure that this joker Arghya is one of the most frustrated lot, importantly very jealous and above all the certified crook who has presently gone either mad or has been recently discharged from a mental hospital.
Further it is also evident from his continued comments that he has absolutely no work at his disposal at present and is trying to just time pass or is showing off his cultured smartness to all of us. We are already having plenty of such jokers in this world around and with Arghya we have one more added to the list of jokers.
The best and the simple way is to keep quiet, observe and ultimately sprinkle the required spray to flush out these poisonous mosquitoes to where they actually belong and as rightly said by me earlier “Arghya jare jare jakar gande nale mein pehle apna kala mooh dhoke aa” and thereafter speak to me as I will show this beautiful world which you are yet to see. Indeed stupid jokers – birds of a feather always flock together
And now dear arghyajee I warn you as to please for god’s sake please don not open my mouth further for sure or you are well aware what will be the ultimate situation and please don’t blame me for that. Just get lost from this site as early as possible – shayad usme hee tumharee bhalayee hai.
Haldar Ji,
I understand you were busy with bug fixing,so no apologies please, what ever you have said on Rafi Sahab and his deity Saigal Sahab is an absolute truth.
Liked your analysis as always
, keep writing such informative posts
Thanks
Arghya ji, – correct
Your post 137 – You have said as follows to rafi fans:
“What respect you have even amongst rafi fans has come out very clearly in orkut. What you can do is only quarrel even with respected hindustani vocalists also, only because they did not support you.”
Yes, this indeed happens. In true voice column, When One Mr. Khan and another Mr. Surajit Bose, respected hindusthani vocalist (who have infact great respect for rafi as well) had rated ghantasala, the southern singer as greater, the quarrel started, running into hundreds of posts. At least, proper thinking & balanced analysis should be made before commenting, whether the hindusthani vocalist is correct etc. Proper respect should be given at least to qualified hindusthani vocalists.
Next, there was an article by mr. souvik chatterjee on sonu nigam here.
There was a huge quarrel again, though the article by chatterjee ji never speaks anything against rafi, but in facts supports rafi. Even then, the quarrel is there.
It is well known how comments have been made against kishore kumar, running into huge number of posts.
Arghya ji, – You have not mentioned anything against rafi or kishore – you have not brought the topic at all, yes you had shown interest towards knowing about sandeep nadkarni ji. – It is a big surprise that your desire to know about sandeep nadkarni ji had been responded by an intelligent escapism. Till today straight response has not been given to you. Indeed surprising.
It is better we close the issue once for all, as we came to know that it will not serve any purpose, rather than receiving some u-turn questionable escapism comments and nothing beyond that.
post 143:
Hi Sudip, welcome back to the forum; haven’t seen you in a long time. I’d rate sj above lp for rafi-lata duets but this, I acknowledge, is a subjective opinion. Anyway, I’m going to start my detective story in Darjeeling (remember Feluda in Darjeeling Jomjomat), with Rafi showering his love on the beautiful Kanchenjunga using the following magical words: tum dil ho dilruba ho. Which song is it?
As promised, the mystery will end in Gangtok (Gangtokey Gondogol). In the process of writing the detective story, I’d refer to several prominent figures and I’d like to emphasise that whatever I write will be just for fun & entertainment.
anil.
A last post from me. I do not act innocent to anyone. I am what i am. I had cursed nadkarni and for what all know. He had still not improved his mentality. That is his problem. Now i did not curse him. Only wanted to know certain things when you people started gabbling around and diverting the topic to rafi-kishore and bla bla bla. If, asking people to act judicioisly on commenting is ‘spreading venom’, then it is you all who are Acting innocent. I am not at all innocent, only respectful to legends,yes, naushad, roshan, opn also.
A last query ti anil, dont reply it here,or dont reply if u dont wish, simple one:
Change the site from mohdrafi to yoodleeyoo.
Change sandip nadkarni from rafi fan to kishore fan(rest all his self claimed credentials in tact)
Change the MDs he commented,ie, salil and pancham to opn and naushad.
Now, given these circumstances, forget about me,can you promise, no one from here would not have gone there to react?? Again a plain, straight forward question anilji, reply in a plain,simple way only- and truthfully, not innocently.
Hi Arghya,
) Because if you did give them a preview of his words, then there is a chance that they are the ones who are lying, and not Sandeep Nadkarni.
I think I already scrapped you, but did you ask these musicians if they knew anyone by the name of Sandeep Nadkarni before or after quoting what he said? Because I remember you telling us on rdb’s community that these musicians reacted violently(well, not “violently” lol, but still quite fierily
Also, take into consideration that Sandeep N. has posted a long time ago here on a few occasions (I don’t see anything wrong in P Haldar’s copy pasting, it is just validation na?) He said he was a musician long ago and worked with rafi saab and other greats. Moreover he has never spoken about the rdb rafi saab issue before, and only now before he passes away did he say this. It could mean either one of 2 possibilities:
1. he really desired to reveal this.
or
2.someone is using his name to add fuel to the rafian/kkfan fire, this has been done by kk fans b4 i think?
But I do not like to believe such things(option 2) abt ppl, (just noting the possibility) I will go for the first possibility.
Having said that, I will also say that according to our friend ali that mohd rafi’s friend said that rdb and rafi saab had a great relationship. Also surprisingly it seemed that:
but its just a joke)
1. rdb was dreamy eyed when rafi was singing(i once felt like making the joke that rdb was dreaming abt kk singing it instead
2.rdb gave his prized song to rafi saab.
3.Also he cringed whenever his great works went to b grade and c grade films, and these included rare rafi/rdb gems i think.
4.He used to celebrate with rafi saab and distribute jalebis to ppl after recordings.
5.RDB fondly spoke of rafi saab going to fly kites.
btw what did u mean by who is katrina to ashish kapoor :S.. lol
take care
Sid
Post 107 (MYK):
——————-
My favorite Rafi-Lata duet composer is undoubtedly LP, followed by SJ and then by Naushad and SD.
My top 5 favorite LP songs in this category are:
1. Yeh dil tum bin (Izzat)
2. Rut beqarar hai (Maa aur Mamta)
3. Aaja teri yaad ayi (Charas)
4. Patta patta, boota boota (Ek Nazar)
5. Aashayon ki sawan mein (Asha)
I regret that the duet in Badaltey Rishtey (Mere sanson ko) went to Mahendra Kapoor. I have no idea why, though it could well be another example of Rafi saab’s generosity.
Mr.Arghya & Company is indeed worked up with the musician Sandeep nadkarni for writing some facts which developed in the course of recordings with salil da.
may i tell arghya that rafi fans do have a right to report, discuss, analyse songs and events. mr. sandeep is a witness to many happenings in the music industry and he has every right to report these matters – as it unfolded then.
mr.sandeep is a respected figure here and is unwell. he will not, never respond to your personalised queries howmuch u and ur jealous supporter instigate him.
u must feel obliged and thankful to sandeep ji and rafi lovers who do not smear the music legends and publish their darker side of life – which are known universally.
u must be thankful that mr.sandeep wrote about the technical issues related to the music room and not of facts like how salil da was imprisoned for a murder of a person at saraswat colony in santa cruz west. its a fact that after maya and chaaya, salil da spent 2 years in jail and lost all the films and the touch in the film industry. it was only due to the efforts of then congress strongman rajni patel and dilip kumar that salilda walked a free man,.
still the words of shri dilip kumar spoken at shanmukhananda hall felicitations of salil da in ’75 rings in my ear:” that had salil not gone for his second marriage, he would have been the No one composer in the industry.”
please do not throw muck on our members arghya and company, the muck will only get stuck on yourselves back in good measure – u jealous and unwanted fellas.
binu nair.
All:
Let’s not be obsessed with the authenticity of Nadkarniji. Personally, it is a non-issue. As Binu sir has pointed out, there is nothing totally new about what he said; they are things which HFM followers know. If Nadkarniji is infact someone who’s worked with those MDs and he’s ailing, let us pray for his health. If that’s not the case, it is not the end of the world for us.
Haldar sir:
Nice to see your post on our singers. Totally agree with your views. Rafisahab is a great singer, greater play back singer and the greatest combination of both. He’s a bit like the male version of Ashaji and Lataji rolled into one. Or may be (as a Soth Indian would put it) Yesu Das sir and Balu sir rolled into one.
Arghya:
Please don’t try to act innocent. You had not only abused Nadkarniji but also cursed him. I remember it very well; actually he replied to you and blessed you in return.
Ushaji,
There are list of hit and lowprofile songs of rafiji for example in maa aur mamta,aakhridao,dadima,himmat,jeenekiraah,yaar mera,to be remember and write about versatility of rafi ji songs,and values.
Even rdb had given most memorable songs of rafiji for example baharo ke sapne-zamanene mare jawan kaise-sad mood,tum ne muje dekha hokar meharbaateeesri manzil-happy song,kya hua tera vaada-semi sad mood,kabhi kabhi aisa bhi to-waaris,nisultana re-pyaar ka mausam,etc.etc.
and a last request to Dr. Ashish Kapoor.
before giving me advice to give you missed call, would you care to tell me who is Katrina???
It is a direct question to you.. Remember this name Dr. Kapoor?? The same name with which you abused Kishore fans just some months back???
toufique sahab post 127.
i appreciate your views. By the way, i have asked in mumbai from a muusic director, ( i can provide name and contatc number also), who is in sound recording for more than 22 years, he never ever heard of such violinist. He also, says, he has known only a Sandeep Thakur, who also knows him in turn, as the only reputed violinist with that name.
The question on ‘authenticity’ comes again.. and when they are asked people bring bullshit like
1. Kishore and rafi- god knows when i brought that..lolz.
2. Abusing nadkarni- god knows when i did that again, i just asked his authenticity and asked him to contact me personally just not to disturb people in open forum. First two causes i did not get any reply from horse’s mouth, and the last cause became fun rather than disturbance
3. Lasltly, if the water in this site has to be ‘purified”’ it can only be done by speaking great things on the great soul on whose name the site is made and not on abusing other legends and hooliganism. And also come out of this preconceived notion that no kishore or pancham or salil fans can be a rafi admirer. Whenever a person comes who is not known as a rafian, shouting starts. Very funny indeed.
aseer faiz
So, u have again come to bullshit? I had given my explanation and related apologies for using a word which i did not mean.
But you never apologized for Calling Lata ‘budhhi sathiya gayi hai’ or speaking bullshit of other Legends. Anyways, there is no proof of that, because your own friends have deleted all your posts.. Just shows your own status.
Ashish kapoorji, when did i use ‘money minded’? Must have been reading some other arghya then.
By the way, bijoorji, when industry boasts so much of jaikishen sahab and nadkarni freindship, why nadkarni does not even know how many years his bossom friend lived??
I expect simple answers to simple questions.. And remember, throughout, i never mentioned any rafi or any kishore here. So, put a stop to gabbling.
Aseer miyan, i dont need any support of hooligans to speak and ask things like you.. What respect you have even amongst rafi fans has come out very clealrly in orkut. What you can do is only quarrel even with respected hindustani vocalists also, only becauuuse they did not support you.
Dear Kapil,
Sorry for not responding to your query earlier. Yes, I did say that Rafi should have worked on non-filmi songs composed by md’s like madan mohan, jaidev and khayyam in the 70s. I’d also add ravi to the list.
What can one say about madan mohan? Look at rafi’s output in the 70s and you’ll find that some of his best songs are composed by mm. Unfortunately for mm, he either worked for small banners or his films didn’t click at the box office. In many ways, I think he would have been much more successful as an md if we had the culture of producing music independently of hindi films. But it wasn’t the case at that time. In contrast, bengal had a thriving music industry that was independent of the film industry, where talents like hemanta, salil, sudhin dasgupta, shyamal mitra, s. d. burman and r. d. burman flourished.
In the 30s and 40s, there were a lot of singing actors — pankaj mallick, k. c. dey, saigal, noorjehan to name a few. When rafi, mukesh and lata entered the scene in the mid 40s, it was still the actors who took centre stage. Just around the time of independence, a lot of major events in the music industry took place. The biggest blow was the death of saigal. Noorjehan, Ghulam Haider and Feroze Nizami decided to move to Pakistan. And slowly the power started shifting from New Theatres, Kolkata, to Bombay Talkies.
Among the male singers who were trying to take over from Pankaj Mallick, K. C. Dey and Saigal were Talat, Mukesh, Manna, Rafi, Hemant and Kishore. Hemant followed pankaj mallick’s style while manna tried to emulate his uncle. Initially, rafi, mukesh and kishore all tried to adopt saigal’s style. I don’t find talat’s style to be similar to that of any of his predecessors. After hearing mukesh in dil jalta hai to jalne do, I guess rafi realised that there was no way he could beat mukesh at his own game. For a while he attempted g. m. durrani’s style but with his mentor naushad at his side, rafi slowly started developing a style of his own. But the biggest breakthrough that rafi made was in the area of playback; he was truly india’s first and best acting singer. Before him it was the era of singing actors. With playback singing beginning to take shape, rafi went far ahead of the competition.
Other than Naushad, there were few people who knew Rafi better than manna dey. In one of his interviews, manna states that rafi would have excelled in any field he had chosen, but in the field of playback singing he was truly peerless. Rafi, Lata, Asha and Manna are all great singers but if you consider the playback aspect, Rafi easily tops all of them. And it’s in playback that you’ll find Mukesh and Kishore going ahead of Manna. That is why Rafi, Mukesh and Kishore are still considered to be the holy trinity of playback singing.
But satisfying the demands of every single hero and comedian for close to 20 years is not easy. Singing for shammi kapoor may seem easy to you but it could damage even the best of voices. And then you have shankar-jaikishan stretching rafi’s voice in every possible direction. It seems that there was nothing that rafi couldn’t do. On top of that, he was going for foreign tours every year, as well as doing regular stage shows in bombay, delhi, calcutta, bangalore, lucknow and even in some of the smallest towns in india.
It is in this context that I had said that rafi should have collaborated with mm on private albums. When it comes to quality control, there are few md’s who are close to mm. And given that mm did not have a lot of film offers, he could have produced some of the best music with rafi. Of course, rafi’s fans would have never let him retire from film music and I seriously doubt that rafi would have himself wanted that. At the time of his death, the number of songs he had signed would have left any aspiring singer wait for years. The man who used to make heroes out of zeroes had started creating waves again; before his death, he had expressed his wish to sing for chimpu kapoor. Take a look at the Kapoor khandan and you’ll find that he has sung for each one of them including the in-laws Rajendra Nath and Prem Nath.
But still as a music lover, and not as a Rafi fanatic, I wish he had worked on private albums with the likes of madan mohan, jaidev and khayyam in the 70s, cutting down a little on his film assignments.
Dear Friends,
I think it’d be best if we ignore this person’s comments. The more you interact with him, the more venom he is going to spread. Last year I had lost my cool when these guys were constantly trying to make mischief on this site; they are back doing the same again. The best way to treat these guys is to ignore them.
P. Haldar
One of the posts requested Rafi-Ravi & Rafi- Chitragupt write up.
My understanding of music is minimal as compared to Haldar ji, but I would like to initiate this debate.
RAFI-RAVI :I always believed that Raf-Ravi gave magical numbers, be it Nai Roshni, Khandan, Kaajal, Waqt and many many more. Percentage wise(Melody & Popularity of songs) MD Ravi would score over any MD. I know this would not go well with some, but please look back and see for yourself. Please watch Ravi ji’s interview on youtube where he also makes this claim. Old man speaks from the heart. I read his yesteryears comment “You got to listen to Rafi from the heart and not only from the ears”. I have heard that mighty Chopras had a spat with Rafi saheb and did not like using his voice much. Ravi made Waqt’s title song’s tune and presented it to Chopras. Ravi also stated to Chopras that only Mohd Rafi can do justice to this song. Buisness minded Chopra agreed to pay Ten thousand rupees fee for the song. This amount was not asked for by Rafi, but Ravi himself and incidently exceeded the monies paid collectivly to other singers for all the songs of the movie. Upon completion of recording, great Rafi saheb distriubuted that amount to musicians. That perhaps satisfied Rafi’s saheb’s ego and yet did not hurt others. I love to learn of such tales.
RAFI-CHITRAGUPT: Another unsung combo. Not to the extent of Ravi, but close. Listen to Chitragupts Bhabhi, Vaasna, Akashdeep etc and listen to pure quality & melody.
Dear Mr Binujee & Mr P Haldar Saab,
It feels so nice to read the comments & views from both of you which have directly flown from the core of your heart in defending a human being and a shining personality of the caliber of Mr Sandeep Nadkarni Sir. I am truly proud of both of you since you have indeed done a great job.
I personally do not feel that there should in-fact be any need & necessity to prove the authenticity of Mr Nadkarni mainly since he has already certified the same through his various posts & comments in this site since the past almost a year or so. This gentleman has brought forth those memories and such innumerable facts & figures in this site which a common man for example like you & me may not even dream of, then how on earth can one ever expect that he should prove his authenticity?
We a few of the ardent fans & admirers of Rafi Saab have through the several luminaries from the silver screen have obtained verbal certificates proving the authenticity of Mr Sandeep Nadkarni Saab as being one of the most popular musician of his times and a great human being.
Dear Arghyajee I for one was indeed shocked & surprised beyond my doubts that you above all needed the authenticity of Mr Nadkarni only for the simple reason that he had spoken the truth in respect of the 2 legends namely Salilda & Panchamda (Yes I have very high regards & respects for both these legends) through the columns of this site. Arghyajee is speaking the truth an offence or is it a crime or is it a sin?
Arghyajee I for one has always held you in the very high esteem and have also respected you through the columns of this great site however your recent posts especially on Mr Nadkarni are definitely not digestible. Are you aware that till today the industry speaks volumes of the greatest friendship between Sandeep Nadkarni – Jaikishan – Shailendra and till date the industry has their highest regards for this great trio
Arghyajee the lone human being is presently confined on his death-bed and almost counting his last few days. Previous year you had gone to the extreme extent of even cursing him but still Mr Nadkarni was so generous enough to you by saying “Kabhee waqt mila thho is gareeb ke ghar ajawo – apne ess remote violin se Kishore ke kuch behetareen geet sunawoonga”
And now Arghyajee if I truly believe in you and your great ethics then I are of the very personal opinion that a personality of the caliber of Mr Sandeep Nadkarni today & immediately deserves your apology. Arghyajee Sandeep ke zindagi mein aaj hai – shayad kal woh waqt ho na ho ——
Please remember that beautiful rendition by none other than Mohammed Rafi Saab under the music supervision of Salil Choudhary “Toote huwe kwabon ne humko ye sikhaya hai – dil ne jise paya thha aankon ne gawaya hai — hum dhoondte hai unko jo milke nahee milte”
refer post 121,
araghya ji, it is u who starts un-necessary arguments on this othetwise peaceful site. it is u who throws mud and indulges in mud slinging on our farishta, u r the one who tries to create mischief and asks people for their contact no’s. gentleman i generally put my contact no at the end of my post. i am doing it again, please feel free to call me up anytime. but as u have written earlier that u are money minded like your “guru’ i shall repeat my “guru’s ” gestre, u can give me a “missed call” and i shall call back on your no so that u can save your money.
ashish kapoor, vice president, rafi foundation memorial society, delhi.
ashkpr@hotmail.com , tel- 09810087414, 09212587414
Dear Binu Ji n Haldar ji
I m really stunned to see this Virus here, and i am really surprised to see his claims. He never badmouthed any legend? In that case, the only legend according to his knowledge is kishore kumar(may be, he can claim talat magmood also just to save his skin.lolz) coz i have seen how he describes Rafi sahab’s voice elsewhere. This same person commented in orkut, the online social community, Rafi had a feminine voice (halder sir, u can understand , he said “meyeli awaaz”). Now here he is claiming otherwise. How charecterless these kk fans can be? keep on arghya. bring some of ur supporters here also, u may feel alone.
Binu ji,
On a serious note, I am not sure if you are for real. Tell me one thing honestly: are the folks writing articles on this site real or fake? I am getting very confused after the smart piece of detective work done by our esteemed guest. Now I’m not even sure if Mr. Nitin Dhareshwar who has written great articles on this site is real or not. Read his post below:
——————–
Mr Nitin D Dhareshwar Says:
May 21st, 2009 at 3:30 pm
We sincerely appreciate and thank all the erstwhile writers from this great site for their beautiful views & suggestions posted in respect of our article Mohammed Rafi – The Voice of the Masses published on 17/05/2009.
However while closely monitoring the comments of our dearest Mr. Sandeep Nadkarni the undersigned would like to reiterate that we still & shall forever remember those golden days when we frequently used to visit the small restaurant situated in Matunga and the other one being in Colaba besides the Regal Cinema. Those were the days when we normally used to be in the August Company of our dear friend Peter who was amongst one of the great artists from the R D Burman Camp and one of the ardent admirers of our beloved king of melody Mohammed Rafi Saab.
Sandeep Uncle such memories can never ever be forgotten so easily as you have elaborated in your comments mainly since they are still in-fact very close to our heart & soul and hence most difficult to erase so easily.
Uncle it has almost been the other way round where we in the best of our ability and above all patience have tried to locate you & meet you in person but we are extremely sorry to say that our all round efforts in searching you have totally gone in vain and hence we are left with no other alternative than to simply recite a small verse from the beautiful rendition by Rafi Saab who truly said “Chupane wale saamane aa chup chup key mera jee na jalaâ€
We all sincerely hope for better things to prevail upon you Unclejee, if you can arrange to come out of the hidden shell and let us all have your brief bio data including your complete residential address & indeed contact details like telephone, cell and e-mail address which will enable all of us to have an glimpse & insight of that beautiful world in which a human being of the excellence of Mr Sandeep Nadkarni is indeed still running very strongly & living so peacefully.
I on behalf of all the dear fans & admirers of Rafi Saab pray to the Almighty to usher on you his choicest blessings and may you continue to entertain all of us with that equal love & affection for several more years to come.
Jate Jate Rafi Saab ka ek khubsoorat sa naghma yaad aya Sandeep Unclejee jo main aapke shagird mein pesh kartna chahata hoon “Tere Naam Ka Deewana Tere Ghar Ko Dhoondtha Haiâ€
Mr. Nitin D Dhareshwar
haldar ji :
i think that mr.arghya and mr.shukla de are fictitious non-existent persons. i further think that some mad chap who is good at handling the internet has entered this portal – to spoil the party. he is writing in disguise, i feel.
he is good at writing stuff which will set off “ripples of mirth”. let’s “not” take him seriously at all and have some good laugh.
binu nair
Adaab Rafi ! to all..
well said Binuji n Haldarda…..
Think that for 2 persons who are questioning the identity the Rameshbhai Zaveri details are more than sufficeint.
We now request these 2 gentlemen to allow the Violinist legend Sandeep saab to live peacefully and not to question his credentials any more…
Narayan
post 121,
legends are human beings — they are neither perfect nor saints.
post 122,123
rafians should come with facts and reasoning, not with abusive remarks. because then it becomes too personal and bears no relation with music/rafi.
Mr. Nadkarni must have the guts to come forward and prove that all the allegations are false. Anecdotes or a ‘Ramesh Zaveri’ or a ‘Lone musician from Jaikishan camp’ prove nothing.
Any way, its really trivial. Because we do not need to believe what a Nadkarni or even a rd burman or a salil says (people can speak strategically without revealing the truth). we can derive a music director’s preference by analyzing his musical output over the years (taking other relevant factors into account). his behavior will reveal his preference regarding singers.
rd and kishore were friends. so when rd got chance he promoted his friend, it was not all about music. rd was so blind about kishore that in 1984 rd said that ‘kishore could sing classical better than any other male singer’ (wat a joke!!!). by 1984 rafi was dead manna was musically almost dead – so rd could say that. but look at wat salil said – kishore could not be a rafi because he did not know classical (rephrased). rd and salil both were greats, but look at how they differed in their views. i think salil was right, since he was neither rafi’s nor kishore’s friend. also he said that despite having some troubles with rafi. and salil understood music better than rd.
So, I get the following things:
1. Yes, there may exist a soul called on that name, whom someone must have seen somewhere but no one remembers. Chalo, maan lete hai, he EXISTS.
2. Now, considering, he exists, as claiming two-three things:
a) a “laadla beta” of a legendary singer. Great, how many people must have got such honour?? If such a privileaged one, he should be household name even amongst musicians,, he is NOT. excellent..
b) claims to have recorded with the legendary Jaikishan of SJ fame, does not even remember how many years Jaikishan lived?? Strange, very strange!
c) When asked about his work with RD, which his close associates( I dont think they need to be testified to the likes of Bhanuda, family of Basudev Chakraborty etc.), he keeps mum! Very good!
d) Some copy paste jobs were done.. Just to show he was a “legend”!! Thats is great! If he is a legend, why people dont recall him like Tony Vass or Manohari Singh?? Lacked in quality? If yes, then he should not speak ill of people who had much more quality than him, who was a poet, a freedom figheter and a mass leader!!!! If No, then why???
Great going, guys! By the way, since Pancham and salil are axed, and people are also bored, who is in the next agenda??? C Ramchandra? Anil Biswas?( Ohh.. oops.. sorry, leader sahab, you have already axed him calling him a chameleon and moron, did Shikha Biswas know this when you met her with your hands folded?..lolz)? S D Burman?( Ya, he should be axed immediately)?? Bhimsen Joshi? Lataji and Ashaji( oops.. sorry, once again, leader sahab and his associates have already taken care of these two sisters)??? Jagjit Singh?( Ya, that is an interesting proposition, perhaps overlooked till now, come on).. Media? Press? Public? People? Industry?
My all questions lie still unanswered..
And before bothering about my job, be careful, as forums were ignorant of the existence of this forum, they are aware, and perhaps what Vishwa Bharati did on Sunil Gangopadhyay’s comments on Tagore( Haldar sahab knows the best), something might follow soon… For us, Salilda, Panchamda, Naushad sahab, OPN and all the luminaries are equally respected.. Ask a guy called Arindam, how much thrashing he got from me for caling Naushad sahab a “biased fool”….
Jaikishen did not die at the age of 36!
He was born in November 4, 1929 and died in September 1971( date I do not remember)… That makes him exactly around 42 when he left us..
Come out of copy-paste and ask your legend to be more precise on facts and calculation..
Dear Friends, in case you missed it, I’d like to post an interesting anecdote shared by Nadkarni saab sometime back.
————————–
Mr Sandeep Nadkarni Says:
March 7th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
I am indeed indebted for the love & affection showered on me by all the erstwhile fans & admirers of our dear Rafi Saab from this beautiful site.
Sandeep Nadkarni is just a very small fakir & still enjoys his life to the fullest which is probably on account of my guru Rafi Saabs teachings. Hum Rafi Saab ke pawan pairoon kee chotisee dhool hai aur iske siwa hamaree pehchan kuch bhee nahee. Hence please dont expect great expectations from me mainly since I am already 76 plus of age at present aur bharosa nahee kab upar wale ka bulawa ajaye kyon ke sirf upar wala hee jankar anjaan hai.
Though my esteem & self confidence till today is probably at the highest peak the required support is not rendered by my body language mainly on account of the ageing factor.
In-spite of the above factors I shall occasionally try & remember those golden memories and will definately share with all of you the beautiful anecdotes involved.
Today I intend to take a stroll down the memory lane in respect of the most cherished Raj Kapoor camp which indeed had great personalities befitting the RK Banner.
Raj Kapoor had announced the making of one of the most memorable, classic & colossal film titled Sangam and as usual the grand finale was ended on a note befitting the status of the greatest Showman.
All the songs of this film were super duper hits however there also existed a very beautiful song which was specifically reserved for the Greatest Mohammed Rafi Saab which as usual used to be as per the tradition set out by the Raj Kapoor camp in most of his films.
The final take of — ye mera prem patra padkar ke tum naaraz na hona ke tum meri zindagee ho ke tum meri bandagee ho –. I was in-charge as the arranger of the voilinist team & when Rafi Saab started — meheraban likhoon ya haseena likhoon — hairan hoon ke is khat mein kya likhoon — .
Poor me I was totally blank & spellbound & forgot my music notes to which Jaikishan almost got wild and abruptly flattered a stick on me in the process slightly injuring me. Rafi Saab as usual very cool & composed patted on my back by saying — beta ab bhulna nahee ho ja shuru —
Thereafter I did not know what had happened but I distinctly remember Jaikishan embracing me for the fantastc job completed with the great words of Rafi Saab — beta ab bhulna nahee ho ja shuru —
This was the immense Greatness of Jaikishan a human being par excellance & a personality of great principles. How sad was when Jaikishan left us for his heavenly abode so early at a very tender age of just 36 years.
This song is therefore dedicated in the loving memory of Rafi Saab & Jaikishan.
May their Souls rest in eternal peace !!!
Binu ji,
The worm has crawled back to this site again. Wonder which news organisation employs a person like him. Should we employ a detective and find out where he works? I’m willing to foot the bill. With the prevailing culture of corporate social responsibility, I don’t think any organisation would like to see one of its employees continuing to engage in a vindictive agenda against an ailing musician. Also, there is a good chance that he is a fraud; only god knows which musicians he contacted or what questions he asked. Fraudulent reporting, as you are aware, could put a news organisation in a lot of trouble.
Remember the time he promised never to come back to this site. No one missed him but he missed being here. He no longer questions nadkarni saab’s existence; his investigative pursuits have suddenly changed. Anyway, enjoy the comedy enacted by two unwanted detectives (tiktikis)!
do jasoos kare mehsoos
ke duniya badi kharab hai
kaun hai sachcha
kaun hai jhoota
har chehare pe naqaab hai
haldar saaheb :
the self appointed dubious detective and the journo (who may term songs from heera panna, ishq ishq ishq, warrant as the greatest pieces of creative musical work)
may now ask : ” who is this Ramesh Jhaveri??? Is he for real??? ( post 113 ). is he faking his identity…..?? they may even ask his ration card, tel.bills and res. address proof.
thank god the almighty that they have not asked : who is mr.haldar or who is mr.binu nair…….thousand thanks for their mercies……
may i tell them that we are all leading very busy lives. so busy that we may not remember even what we had for breakfast today. in such a situation how the old men (musicians of course) known to the journo & detective – remember the persons name who left the industry some 30 years back.
i expected kk fans to be intelligent not foolish when they arrive here . any way we must take them lightly, treat their writings as ” jokes” and laugh loudly. this will be the better way of seeing their words.
finally, who said we have less number of comedians around.
lets all laugh heartily…… very heartily. ’cause its good for the heart.
binu nair
post 114
Mr. bla bla bla
Ask your hero, is it HIS CULTURE TO THROW MUD AT LEGENDS??
My question to Priya Santal:
Good madam, you condemn me.. I dont bother.. I did not see you or for that matter any so called music lover talking about distribution in music, when your ‘luminary’ was throwing mud at salil and pancham.. What happened to youm mada? Were you neutral? Ask yourself ..
I have the guts to promise that the day it is proved that sandip nadkarni is as big as salil chowdhury( or even as recognizable as his famous assistants) in the history of cine music in India, i would be the first person to take back my questioning on his ‘authenticity’… And that seems..well, you know..
Keep on praising the legenda, but never show down one to prove other greater… Have some character.
post 113 Rameshbhai,
You have cleared all doubts in the minds of persons like Argyaji and shukla da who were the only having their views which naturally irked n provoked senior veteran Rafi Bakts like haldarda, MYKji, Binuji, Kapil and many devotees like me…
With this I request all to respond peacefully and as cheerfully like our revered Guruji Janab Rafi sahab…
Jai Rafi sahab
Narayan
kabhi bhi apne idol ke upar se vishwas mat hathaao..
Jis din vishwas toot gaya, us din unko mahaan karne ke chalte dusre mahaan logon ko chhote karoge..
Ek sardar apne dil se bol raha hai, samajhna hai to samajhlo..
nahi to jaisa chal raha hai waise chalne do…
‘do din ki bahare hai jag mein..
Kab zulm kisi ki chalta hai
Yeh jhooth ka sooraj laakh jale
Har shaam ko ek din dhalta hai…’
Versatility is the name of Mohammad Rafi Sb………………absolutely right title………………….
All singing styles are merged in one personality who is Rafi Sb………….
very nice article……..
Regards,
-Imran-
Priyaji and friends,
As much as I am not biased towards Arghyaji, I am not biased towards Nadkarniji too. I do not personally know either of them except through these columns. At the same time my obeisance towards rafi sahab does not in any way impede me any way in being objective and rational.
There were a set of questions on which the answers did not appear to be to the point. Well, again, I am not sitting in judgement on their relevance or irrelevance. i only offered my comments as i saw them in black and white. if nadkarni sahab is a genuine person i will be the happiest person. In this august forum only- please note importantly- I have myself reviewed the song ” huye ham jinke liye barbaad..” just a couple of weeks back dedicated to nadkarni sahab. Had i not been impressed by his contribution to the film music through facts related by him, i would not have done that.
Friends, we are distantly connected. if somebody wants to establish my, arghya’s or haldar sahab’s identity maybe PAN number will do. but how would you know how effectively i am associated with the things which i am championing ? I may be a sheep in lion’s clothes. again, the reference is not to nadkarni sahab, but a very general point. even in these columns, some are branded kk cronies or sonu bhakts and therefore talked off in a lowly and derogatory way. Why ? have we come to such a state that a dissent on some point is taken as a wholesale rebellion ?
there are so many mails these days proving that nadkarni sahab in fact is a living legend. If everybody is satisfied, i have no problem and i will accept it as a reality with full reverence to nadkarni sahab. In any case as far as i am personally concerned, deriding nadkarni sahab was never the intent. But, we have to be vigilant that impersonation or proxy writings do not proliferate based on the sympathy factors.
I think i have made myself clear.
padmanabhan nr
rafi foundation, hyderabad chapter
Baar baar rafi club, bangalore.
HALDAR SAAHEB ; The Third grade journalist and the Fourth grade pvt.detective can only do one thing when cornered. they will vanish from this site for some time like the four legged animal – hiding their tails.
u would note that their ilk has done the same action in this site – too often. IT NEVER SURPRISES ME.
BINU NAIR, MUMBAI
Padmanabhan NR ji,,,,well said if Arghya proved right in context of Nadkarini Ji,,,,but its not a point atal,,who is arghya who has given him authority to play a detective here,,,,,,,,MR NR,,,u have mentioned Rafi foundation hydrabad,,,,if some insane comes n challenge that u or Binu Ji don`t belong to Rafi foundation n further says there is no such foundation and would ask about prove,,,,,,why should u try to convince him,,,???
These r crazyness,,,Well, but arghya is not insane,,,,,rather nice person,,but I can`t comprehend why is he behaving so unmaturly,,,,,
If u doubt anyone`s authenticity,,u can request for ur doubts to be rectified with the concern person,,,,,but its ill mannered person who publicly challenges a person`s life`s dedication for one`s profession,,,,,,,we ought to possess some decency,,,,,its really undecent way of enquiring even if its the fact,,,,,,,
If Nadkarini ji belongs to orchestra group or not its not a matter of concern of this site thats a tribute to one of the finnest lovable person and genious singer,,,,,,,Rafi sahab,,,in addition with respect to all Lataji,manna de,mukesh ji,,kishore da,,etc,,all r respected,,,but,,,,,,,such counter statement of doubts only enhances differnces between lovers of music,,,….I condemn such queries!
Mr Sandeep Nadkarni has definitely proved to be the biggest hero of this great site whose regular comments which he has posted regularly has truly proved to be the most interesting readable chapters of this site and has also become the readers digest.
But suddenly one fine morning the same Messiah is being shown the dust of the universe mainly since a few of the least concerned or the few of the least interested & least bothered characters have put a big question mark on his mere existence and his sheer authenticity has been challenged for reasons better known to a section of the few very learned gentlemen. Indeed a shame on such characters who have started sprinkling mud on his shoulders and on a shining personality who presently is unfortunately bed-ridden and is on the verge of counting his last few days before the ultimate results are drawn and then the sheer jaws of death will automatically embrace him on his mere existence. Great Friends
Sandeep the front ranker violin arranger for most of the Jaikishan composed renditions is today being questioned on his authenticity. How many films & how many songs would be practically impossible to cover
Is this what we call as our culture and are we ourselves so cultured & so authentic to raise our fingers on a personality of the caliber of Mr Sandeep Nadkarni.
Dear Admirers of the Music Lovers,
My name is Mr Ramesh Zaveri and I am presently residing in Surat, Gujarat. Presently I am almost 75 years old.
I am very much fond of old music and not any particular artist or singer. In the very early 1960s decade we a small group had formed a musical group or an association in Bombay of which I was one of the committee members.
In those days (I don not remember the exact period or date) there used to be a regular publication of the top most singers (in the male & female category), artists, musicians, music directors etc which used to be published once in a period of almost 3 to 5 years gap. While just searching & reading of the old records I have come across a list of the top most musicians group which I feel would have been published some-where around in the year 1965-1966 in which the name of Mr Sandeep Nadkarni was visible to me and hence I thought it will be a help to all the music lovers and admirers from this site.
The list of the very popular & famous musicians around the year 1965-1966 is as follows
Arrangers Dattaram & Sebastian D’Souza
Violin Arranger Sandeep Nadkarni
Sitar Ustad Raees Khan
Sax phone Manohari Singh
Drum Player Leslie Godhinha
Tabla Anant Aiyar & Ramakant
Trumpet John Pereiara
Baas Edi Travers
Electric Guitar Dilip Naik & Anibal Castro
Flute Sumanth
I personally do not remember of knowing or meeting any of the musician appearing in the list but I can say that the names that have appeared in the list were very famous & popular in those days.
I am sorry to say that I am very weak in English and any mistakes to be pardoned
Binu Nair ji & Haldar ji,
We have nothing against anybody. In my earlier post, I had already mentioned to nadkarni ji, that if he is a true musician, my due respects to him. If it is not so, then the question arises. You might have noticed even Mr. Padmanabhan NR, member hyderabad rafi foundation has raised query to Mr. Nadkarni over his post 93. Not only myself and arghya ji have raised this, even rafi fans have raised the issue. What do you say ?
Post 93 of nadkarni ji does not reply to arghya’s questions and appears deviating. Naturally suspicion arises. Many kishore lovers such as arghya ji and others are also aware of what has happened in the industry. This does not require any certification from any musician.
We never use degraded words. We maintain the same respect to even rafi fans. Even arghya ji is dignified at all posts. It is that some rafi fans, mainly you two, use harsh and unpleasant words, which I think have become routine for kishore fans and hence no body cares. As Mr. haldar ji stands famous for his posts – form a group called united against rafi and we will take care of you or one word against the farishta you (other fans) are dead. Fine, it is his views. We never use such statements. We have respect for rafi ji as a great singer and we expect the same from you all too.
main sirf itna bolunga… Jo log puri zindagi mein kuchh nahi kar sakte wohi unse mahaan logo ko gaali deke apna naam kamaana chahte hai.
Baaki waise yahan pe sabhi jaankaar log hi baithe hai jinhe samaj mein oonche darje ka sanman mila hai,
“Authenticity” is the word and not “existence”..
The industry is huge and many people roam around recording studios but your authenticity is established only when “people know you”.. The test at which the person fails miserably.. Even he is not answering on his testimonials..
By the way, bad mouthing legends is a long tradition here, no one bothers about this also, as people are exposing them on the name of music lover as a music terrorist. My questions are not at all answered. As to why not a single luminary known this human who claims to be so close to legends and bad mouth them also at his own will…
In Tata Motors, in the assembly lines, hundred fitters work at a shift,, It is the fitter’s responsibility to ensure when he talks of character and mentality of Ratan Tata, whether he knows the person properly or not.
And who bothers about Rafi or KK or Mukesh or whomsoever? Had it been the case, I would have kept on coming and twittering here( as you guys always go on, anyways) just like Haldar sahab does in the neighbourhood nest,,LOL..
Haldar sahab, now you verify from all these sources, as you are a copy-paste master, did I have ever foul mouthed any legend in any forum?? Try out.. and you would fail.. The answer is “NO”,because that is called confidence.. Confidence on music and confidence on your idol.. The sheer confidence for which I am not using “third class” or “fourth class” word to you and still maintaining “ji” or “sahab” for all of you.. Hope you would also maintain the same- not for me, but for people like Basudev Chakraborty, who was great enough not to be verified from any source and died peacefully after completing a successful career.
Lastly, I do not spend “sleepless nights” by reading those stories which I know since time immemorial.. If RD had done that, as a MD he had all the right to do so.. If OP had called Kishore “besoora”, he had all the right as a MD to call so, and you would never find me abusing OP, Haldar sahab, because unlike you, my confidence is much much higher and strong.
Thanks.
post 107:
Dear myk,
There are so many md’s who composed great lata-rafi duets; here’s a partial list (in no particular order): sj, naushad, sd, lp, chitrgupta, roshan, ka…
post 105:
Dear Binu ji,
Don’t expect an apology from this third-grade journalist and fourth-grade detective. He is the worst virus that has infected this site to date. Last year, this brat arrived here and cursed Nadkarni saab. Now he and his associate are trying the same smear tactics, the reason being very simple: they don’t want people to hear the truth.
Also, here’s a note to some of my friends on this forum: a senior musician who has worked with Rafi saab does not need to be subjected to interrogation tactics employed by brats of dubious background. The agenda of these brats is to spread as much misinformation as possible. Rafi saab was the darling of the cine musicians; it pains me to find folks casting aspersions on a senior musician who had the guts to report facts based on what he saw and heard.
Ref Post 105:
As the saying goes:
“Don’t jump the gun, or you will shoot yourself in the foot”
which applies to all those who thought Nadkarni-ji was an imposter or a fake.
This site has been infiltrated by fanatical KK fans, bigots, spammers etc. for a while now. I think its time the Mod put restrictions on these individuals so that this site can return to its former glory. I am glad that many great Rafians are still here, and hope that other great Rafians who were here before, and who have left for some time, will return soon.
It’s awesome how Rafi attracts the most attention (and its ofcourse understandable since he is the best) everywhere. For example, this site is visited by countless daily, even fans of others who are jealous of Rafi. Whereas other sites of other singers are hardly active. Go Figure !.
——————
Haldar-ji, Kapil-ji, Binu-ji and others
It is said that the musicians who played in “Awaaz deke humein tum bulao” from Professor were stunned by the divine composition. I wish Nadkarni-ji could throw some light on the recording of this song.
This brings me to another question. Who composed the best Lata-Rafi duets ?. The answer would vary from individual to individual according to their personal tastes.
Dear Friends,
In post 102, Dr. Paranjape’s name has been mentioned by Mr. Ashok Desai. I have provided below a post by Dr. paranjape himself. Is he a fictitious character? Are his patients also fictitious? Binuji, are you a real person or a fictitious one?
———————————
Dr Suhas Paranjape Says:
June 3rd, 2009 at 8:27 pm
Though I am a regular surfer of this site it would probably be my first occasion to submit my comments & views in this great site dedicated in the everlasting memory of the Legend Mohammed Rafi Saab. Being a doctor by profession it hardly gives me enough time for such matters.
However this article by Mr D P Bijoor and Mr Nitin Dhareshwar indeed made great reading mainly since it brought forth a gentleman of the caliber of Shailendra very near to the focus of my heart & mind. Friends personally speaking I never ever believe OR believed in the number game in respect of how many songs were penned down by Shailendra, when and under whose music direction and whether it was 258 songs which the article has suggested OR 824 songs as enumerated in the comments by Mr Sanjay Arora mainly on account that this number game hardly gives any genuine figure mainly since the creators themselves are either not aware OR they do not possess these facts & figures.
Take the simple example of the Greatest Rafi Saab – can any one on this earth categorically figure out as to how many songs were rendered by him ranging from Gul Baloch (1944) to Aas Paas (1980). The figures friends would definitely vary from person to personality mainly since neither Rafi Saab himself nor his family would be able to figure out the correct picture I personally doubt.
Rafi Saab as you all are aware had changed his residence on various occasions from Bhendi Bazaar to Bandra (West) and in this process of shifting his residence the great treasure of the records & songs rendered by him were either lost OR misplaced is what I had gathered when personally speaking to his lovely family members. Some say the figure was 5000 songs and a few others are of the opinion it was more than 10,000 songs and so on.
Hence I was indeed delighted to read this article which I felt as if these 2 great writers had penned down the same from the core of dear Shailendras heart.
Friends I do not intend to disintegrate the pains & sheer hard-work carried out by my fellow friend Mr Sanjay Arora & others in indeed giving us a very beautiful insight of almost all the songs written by our dear Shailendra, however the beautiful presentation of this article has a lot more effect on the subject matter than the number game I suppose.
Hence there should not be any specific room for ill-feelings if any friends
Post 99: Kishore fans shukla de & his counterpart arghya dutta are honourable men. They are very upright too . i would wish to ask them why they keep silent or look the other way when kk fans use “ghost names” & enter this portal and write thrash to undermine mohd rafi saaheb.
if, sandeep nadkarni is proved indeed to be in the industry for 30 long years, will they both apologise to the musician???? .
they have joined issues with mr.sandeep nadkarni, a musician himself and a mohd rafi lover and questioned about his “existence” itself in the industry. indeed, this is due to the facts mentioned by mr.nadkarni which has given them sleepless nights.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
mr. pyarelal in our first 3 hour meeting has said something about musicians in the industry to me.
said he : “whenever we used to enter the recording studios, there were scores of musicians waiting for work – any given day. we used to take maximum number of musicians on the job, for it was their only livelihood.
now, if mr.arghya would ask mr pyarelal the names of these musicians (after 30 years) would pyarelal remember their names ????
mr.arghya and shukla de : composers nd musicians will more often recollect their music and tunes “not” the names of each musicians .
today, i called up industry musician mr.nandu kerkar who is a big arranger today in music events and one who has done recordings with mohd rafi, bappi lahiri, kalyanji anandji and others.
he immediately recognised mr.sandeep and told me that he has recorded songs with mr.sandeep nadkarni on the voilin. now, mr.arghya , pls ask manohar da about nandu kerkar, he will remember nandu because nandu even today does programmes in various places and is a noted arranger.
if u ask manohari da about mr.sandeep he may remember or not remember since mr.sandeep left the industry some 20 years back or more.
because manohari da does’nt remember mr.sandeep nadkarni, can any one say : mr.sandeep nadkarni was not in the industry.
mr.arghya dutta and shukla de : it’s hoped that this perverted thinking will stop from ur side and kk fans would show some dignity to a ailing person like mr.sandeep nadkarni saaheb. this is a request.
binu nair
Dear Aghyaji n Shuklaji,
Pranams and Adaab Rafi !
Now since Sandeep Nadkarni sir has expressed his views as he is ailing and seriously ill we all true music lovers request you not to further pursue and provoke any one..
we have only one birth and in this august forum kindly contribute by your vast knowledge on Rafism and the legend’s immortal treasures of songs
This is the only way to end this debate…..
Narayan
Baar Baar Rafi The Fan Club
Bangalore
I’m posting an earlier comment from Mr. Ashok Desai:
——————————-
Mr Ashok Desai Says:
March 17th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
Hello Sandeepbhaiyya,
Your small article is fantastic. One of my friends in the States informed me of this beautiful site and after surfing the same for a couple of days I got in touch with your article & other comments on various issues. On a couple of occasions you have mentioned of our other good old friend Mr Peter in your comments but seem to have all together forgotten me. How is Peter & where is he at present.
Anyway we are probably meeting in words after several years since I clearly remember the last one was when we both were recording the evergreen song from the film titled “Dil ne phir Yaad Kiya†and the beautiful song was “Dil ne phir yaad kiya barfasee lehearaiye mein – who bhee kya din thhe ke hume dil mein basaya tha kabhee aur hass hass ke gale tum ne lagaya tha kabhe†with beautiful music by Sonic Omi (Darling amongst music directors)
Thereafter as you are aware I migrated to the States and you were still continuing in the industry. Dost it was indeed very sad to note & read that our dearest bhabi Shubhangee and your 2 beautiful sons Roheet & Prakash are no more with us. Hats off to both your sons for their brave decision in joining the army service and offering their precious lives in the service of our Country
Sandeep Sir for a couple of months I am with my brother at Arera Colony, Bhopal and thereafter will be flying back to the States for my usual routine. Since you are aware of this residence please arrange to contact me immediately.
Dear admirers & fans of the Greatest Ever Mohammed Rafi Saab:
Sandeep Nadkarni was one of the most loved & respected personalities of our times in the Film Industry & in fact very handsomely paid too. He was handsome, smart, tall & well built and hence the industry used to call him by a lovable OR a pet name of Shyam Junior (Remember actor Shyam who died while shooting for the film Shabhisthan by accidentally falling from a horse while enacting a particular scene)
In fact Sandeep was the one who had received several offers to act in various films which he always refused. Remember the great film Haqeeqat and the role of the major was in fact reserved by Chetan Anand Saab for Sandeep. Even the greatest Madan Mohan was eager to do this role but since he was unable to attend the shooting in time Chetan Anand himself enacted the role
Sandeep a great philanthropist & a great human being from the core of his heart and was indeed the beta of our dearest Mohammed Rafi Saab. There are several instances where Sandeep has almost gone out of his way to help many but always with a silent affair.
Hats off to you Sandeep Sir
Mr Ashok Desai
Arera Colony, Bhopal
Dear Friends,
I don’t want any division in our ranks. Two guests who have come to this site have already accused mr. nadkarni of falsely pretending to be a musician. I haven’t met mr. nadkarni myself and I cannot vouch for the absolute truth. But if you have read his posts, he has never claimed to be a great musician; all he has said is that he used to play the violin in rd’s and salil’s orchestra. In fact, he had said that he was a stand-by violinist for the (in)famous Maya duet. A violin ensemble could range anywhere from 15 to 40 musicians, though in rd’s case it would be on the lower side. But even then, it may not be possible for folks to recall the names of every violinist who played in the orchestra after so many years.
I’m posting below the comments of someone by the name of Ashok Desai who had reacted strongly to one of Mr. Nadkarni’s a few months ago:
————————–
Mr Ashok Desai Says:
June 26th, 2009 at 8:54 pm
The Mohammed Rafi – Kishore Kumar war in this beautiful site is profusely the hand-work of the so-called politicians who claim to be their fans. My dear friend from Mumbai Dr Suhas Paranjape has sent me a sms message informing me about this most stupid gimmick ever played by these dirty politicians who probably have no business or work of their own and are just interested in maligning the image of this great site and also tarnish the image of these 2 great legends. Indeed when I surfed this site and this article I was totally shocked & surprised beyond my doubt and imagination that such a war can be created for exactly no fault or purpose whatsoever. I remember of having posted my single comment on my friend, philosopher and guide Mr Sandeep D Nadkarni Sir earlier and for me after reading the rubbish comments of Mr Nadkarni on this created war I was totally taken a back & could never believe what I had read with my eyes which can be simply described as disgraceful.
Coming back to the pure business I clearly remember that day when I myself and mR Nadkarni Sir were together for the recording of that beauty of a rendition by Rafi Saab from the film Kalpana with music score by O P Nayyar in which Kishore Kumar was the lead and the song “Mana mora bawara – aashaonke deepa jalakar†was to be shot on Kishore Saab. The greatest Rafi Saab as usual in his ever cool completed the recording of this song after a couple of re-takes and as all are aware he had left no stone unturned in singing forth this song by pouring out his heart & soul out for the master piece rendition. Rafi Sab had brought out his best mainly since he was play-backing for none other than the great Kishore Kumar and Rafi Saab wanted to be almost 200% sure and perfect in all the respects. After the final take was okayed Kishore Kumar almost wept profusely and came towards Rafi Saab and fell on his noble feet as a mark of his gratitude for the terrific rendition. Rafi Saab ne Kishore ko tab apne gale se lagaya aur kaha “Kishore agar aap ye gana gathe tho mujhase kaheen zyada behtar gatheâ€
——————————
And I’m now posting Mr. Nadkarni’s response to that post:
——————————
Mr Sandeep Nadkarni Says:
June 30th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
My dear friend Mr Ashok Desai Saabs comments seems to have been taken very sharply & seriously by Mr Binu Nairjee & Savitaa Garciajee.
Friends and all the ardent admirers of dear Rafi Saab — I would like to inform you that Mr Ashok Desai has been one my greatest & best friend and in fact is a far more better voilinist than me and hence he is still in demand in the music industry though I have retired long back.
He is not only one of the ardent admirers of our beloved king of melody Mohammed Rafi Saab but one can say he is the “bhakt & poojary”
His house situated in the Arera Colony, Bhopal is presently beaming full of Rafi Saabs various large & small portraits and anyone visiting his this residence will be astonished to see his love & respect for the immortal legend.
However he also likes Kishore Kumar a lot and hence probably he was a bit taken aback after surfing this site & especailly when he read the various comments from the KK as well as Rafi Saabs fans.
Binujee & Garciajee — Mr Desai is a great gentleman and also a very soft spoken personality and if at all by his comments if he has hurt the feelings I Mr Sandeep Nadkarni exclusively on behalf of my dearest friend Mr Desai, sincerely apologise & deeply regret for the inconvenience.
—————————————–
Here are the possible truths behind the mystery:
1. If mr. nadkarni is not a musician, mr. desai is a fictitious character.
2. if mr. desai is a fictitious character, so is dr. paranjape.
3. if dr. paranjape is not a fictitious person, he should come forward and clear the air.
I thought in our country we were innocent till proven guilty. Can’t believe that we don’t have the simple human decency to give the benefit of doubt to someone who might actually be counting his last few days on earth.
Post no. 93, purported to have emanated from Shri Nadkarni is disappointing to say the least. None of Arghya’s specific queries have been replied to. And it appears an admission in guilt.
Arghya’s mails did have substance because his questions were directly seeking response from nadkarniji. Will not any one of us be curious and verify, if he is in a position to do so, the background of someone who gives so many facts as a first person account ? Indeed the so called trivias by Nadkarni sahab have taken us all for a ride of deceipt. Because he was speaking so highly of Rafi sahab, we blindly allowed ourseves to flow in his pronouncements. So much so that after Rafi Sahab, he became our next God.
Friends, we do not need these type of insider informations to cement our reverence for Rafi Sahab. What rafi sahab gave us by way of immortal melodies is enough to last a life time. I do not know what ” Nadkarni sahab ” achieved by befooling all of us during these days. Had it not been for Arghya, we would have still been fighting between ourselves on a non-issue.
I once again reiterate that I do not know Arghya personally. At this moment of time, based on the available facts, I would tend to agree with him. We may have differences in opinion. That is ok. But do not stifle a genuine doubt. It might have merit. Maybe a re-look will set the matter right rather than wholesale condemnation.
Padmanabhan NR
Rafi Foundation, Hyderabad Chapter
Baar Baar Rafi, Bangalore.
Kishore kumar lovers : Please note that this is “truly” a mohammad rafi lovers site and all those who try to pollute or colour the pure waters herein are despised by rafi lovers .
please thank the moderator for printing your views without censorship unlike the other kishore kumar website which use “multiple filters” to filter views expressed by music lovers or mohd rafi lovers. I never bother to even see those columns due to the standards of contributors therein.
the orchestrated programme to make famous songs of your favourite singer has fallen flat and people never would in this life time listen songs in films like : ishq, ishq, ishq; warrant and others which were played reguarly on binaca geet mala coourtesy music companies and amin sayani and also the music lobby in existence in the seventies.
i understand you peoples plight – that u cant stand the divinitiy and longevity of mohd rafi saaheb songs and works . and hence all ur intrusions in the mohd rafi lovers site.
for the sake of non-partisan views i am sure that this website would welcome people like u. so carry on the game. u have nothing to lose.
binu nair
Sandeep Nadkarni ji – Your post 93
Mr. Arghya Dutta stands correct and truthful and dignified in his views. If you are a real artist as you claim, then my respects to you. Otherwise, it will not be a surprise to note that another person in the guise of a biased rafi fan has been commenting in this site and many others including binu nair ji start supporting such fans (it is enough if they praise rafi even if they are not genuine personalities) . Why you do not straight away answer arghya ji’s questions. Your post 93 is simply deviating and does not answer arghya’s questions.
Some biased rafi lovers (I respect few genuine rafi lovers such as Mr. A S Murthy, H V Gurumurthy ji, Mr Manish kumar etc. who give positive responses to even fans of other singers in this site)
I am in a very top professional position dealing with highly placed & respected people (including people who have seved as principal secretaries to the govt’s) . Even when I posted a one message (this is my 3rd message in this forum), some time back questioning rafi’s ability, response from rafi fans was very very harsh. This is the respect rafi fans give to even dignified & respected people. I stopped posting messages, but was taken aback by the way rafi fans talk to even respected people. Something against rafi, you can expect fireworks. What is this. Even arghya ji is now facing the same thing in this site.
Binu Nair ji, – 88
I expected better posts from you – Where is arghya wrong. Should I presume that you too are hiding facts when straight questions are asked (by mr arghya to nadkarni ji and you start supporting) & try to support others. I expected a dignified and matured comments from the leader of the rafi foundation , mumbai. This does not befit you at all.
Admin – Moderator pl.
Many times it is noticed that rafians (specially binu nair ji ) are directing (not asking) people who write against rafi to leave this forum. Is this a public forum or rafi forum. If it is only a rafi forum, then please do not post messages of any person who writes even a neutral message here. If it is a public forum, who are rafi fans to ask others to leave. This stands simply absurd. My kind request to the administrator to pl. interfere in such posts (including of binu nair ji’s 88 as it is offensive sir) and kindly see that all are given equal opportunity to post messages here as it is a public forum. Otherwise suitable instruction may be put – this forum is only for pure rafi lovers and no comment other than in praise of rafi will be tolerated or posted.
I have been observing the recent posts in this thread and also elsewhere in this site on the comparison of our farishta against other singers, comments made by some music directors on Rafi sahab etc.. . I would appeal to all concerned from continuing this endless debates.
Appeal to non Rafi fans–please accept one fact that all along Rafi did not get his due because of so much of politics -you would find even to this day in media there is almost no mention about him in mainstream media even during his anniversaries. This is the main reason why some die-hard fans get upset.
Appeal to Rafi fans-just do not bother about the point mentioned above as Rafi himself did not ever bother about this and carried on his work like a true “Karma-yogi”–balanced in joy and sorrow, succes and failure!!
Remember–Gam aur khushi mein farq na mahsoos ho jahan, mein dil ko us makam pe laata chala gaya….as usual our farishta has a song for every season or reason or occassion.. Be proud of that–(ironically in the recent Total recall program on Asha, when the birthday cake was cut what song did you think was playing–Baar baar din ye aaye, baar baar dil ye gaye tu jiye hazaraon saal…happy birthday to you..)
sandeep nadkarni ji..
My questions are still unanswered…
All are entitled to express their views. But it would have been better had you expressed them by admitting you came to know them from different articles, or from some industry people or from some interviews and not that physically you were there when they were done and you saw them and all.. Pl remember, verification in terms of existence and authenticity takes hardly little time. Forums and esteemed people were not agitated for your remarks but for your falsified impersonification as a musician who knows all about pancham and salil!! Things got clarified the instance close associates of those two MDs were questioned.. Even if you are real as a musician, you are not recognized or remembered by any! So, please be a bit careful in future while commenting.
Lastly, since my queries are still not answered, in case you feel hesitant in open forums, pl mail me at arghya.kishoreda@gmail.com with the queries i have raised on some of your testimonials. wastage of time in an open forum is nonsense.
Awaiting your reply and no goodbye to you..rest of all, adieu..
Dear Sandeep Nadkarni ji,
As per your request, no word against pancham da and salil da anymore; rafi saab himself wouldn’t have been happy if he had seen some of my comments. Our thoughts and prayers will be always with you.
Please accept pranam from one of the most fanatic rafians.
P. Haldar
post 87:
Mr. Bhagchandani,
The interview that I referred to in my earlier post was not aired on radio but came out in either Filmfare or Illustrated Weekly. I now wish that I had kept all those issues but little did I realise then that one day that I’d be able to meet so many rafi bhakts virtually on the internet.
to be fair to salil da, he had equal disdain for most of his fellow composers (I don’t want to mention their names here). And in 1987, after Kishore da passed away, he offered a backhanded compliment to rafi saab. In a special issue on Kishore, the Bengali magazine Anandalok had asked Salil on his opinion of Kishore, to which Sir Salil responded (I’m paraphrasing here): “Kishore jodi shastriya sangeet sikhten, sudhu jonopriotar mapkathi te noi, sangeet’er gunogoto bichare uni sohojei Rofi’r samakokhyo hote parten”, which roughly translates to English as follows: “If Kishore had learnt classical music, then he could have easily reached the status of Rafi not only by the yardstick of popularity but also by the standards of musical excellence.”
The strange thing about this statement of his is that it will please neither Rafi’s fans nor Kishore’s fans. But that’s Salil for you. Anyway, in my humble opinion, the Lata-Salil combo has been one of the greatest combinations in hindi film music.
post 90:
In support of what binu ji has posted, let me quote benny gracias (Gregory Booth, “Behind the Curtain”):
“We used to do a song recording within four hours… One time we had an emergency with L-P, and we did five songs in one day. That was when Mohamed Rafi was living, and he had to go abroad for some shows. Today with all this technology, the song recording is going on four days or five days.”
MD-s like LP who always wanted Rafi to sing for them don’t give excuses. Only md’s and producers who wanted other singers provide excuses.
Arghyajee & Others
I am extremely sorry & regret for my statements since they have definitely caused & hurt a few valuable sentiments. Personally I did not intend to hurt any one’s feelings & sentiments but if the same has brought this effect in this great site than I deeply regret for the same. A small human being of my caliber who is presently on his own death bed but still alive and profusely counting his last days in-fact should not have entered in to such a controversy.
For me Salilda & R D Burman (Pancham) technically have been legends & masters in their own selves and my association with both of them over the years have truly been fruitful, except for a incidence here or there.
In view of the above and since I do not want to take away with me such ill feelings I personally request arghyahee & all the other admirers of Rafi Saab especially Mr P Haldar & Binujee to please put an end to this controversy and to please help to die a peaceful death.
Thanks, Regards & best wishes to all of you
p haldar sahab..
I dont hob around with bhanu gupta and basudeb chakraborty.. Because unfortunately, basudeb chakraborty is no more with us.. He has departed last year.
Not surprising that you do not know this and dont carry more respect to him than a unknown musician(?)
And dont put posts to me. I am here only to clarify certain points here with a musician(?)… I am not bothered about any of you. as soon as i get a reply from him, i will communicate with him personally.. Till then, in an open forum, i am as much admissible as any individual.
Friends,
Let’s take all those controversial comments made by all those famous MDs with a pinch of salt. I hope all of you remember the non sense comments made by Sajjad Hussain, who had a great sense of melody:
1. “Sirf Lata gaati hai, baki sab roti hain”
2. Kishore Kumar == “Shor” Kumar
Now tell me who is going to endorse that? no doubt Lata was supreme but the first comment is a big insult to all other greats like Asha, Geeta(my huge Fav), Shamshad, Rajkumari and various others. Kishore too has many excellent renditions to his credit.
So Let’s only pay attention to the great songs they(Salil,AB,Sajjad) have made, not to their non sense comments.
Haldar Ji, Myk Bhai, Binu Ji:
All of you are very knowledgeable Rafi lovers, can you please write on the Rafi-Ravi and Rafi-Chitragupt as passionately as you have written on the controversial topics, here in this thread. We all would love to have your take on these combos.
Thanks
A quote from mr.Raju Naushad : Rafi saaheb used to practice his songs much before the actual recordings. he would come prepared. composers like naushad, sd burman and salil da would practice the songs much before the recordings.
raju naushad : “once mohd rafi is prepared with the song, it would be very difficult to make changes at the last minute”. so, the controversey about the maya duet song was nothing new. one thing that was at work was the ego factor of people involved who belonged to different musical camps.
says composer ravi : “mohd rafi durng the trials would suggest changes to the songs and most of them were accepted by me”.
says rafi bakht pyarelal : yes. rafi saaheb used to take time for the preparations of the song but we had a wonderful working relationship. on a day he recorded five songs for us – before leaving on a foreign tour. three of them became big hits.
i again say that mr sandeep saaheb has just said what was already known. we must admire his guts to say these things publicly. most of his erstwhile colleagues and composers would never even discuss these subjects with music lovers.
and, for this sandeep nadkarni deserves a pat on his back.
==============================================
and, one more fact :its the music directors who teaches us ” how to sing our songs ” mohd rafi has said in several of his interviews. they are my gurus.
its a known fact that naushad saaheb used to train the singers for months his songs – which have become immortal.
almost all singers would take credit themselves for a songs success and never would credit the composer who has burnt the midlight lamp in making the song.
only mohd rafi saaheb credited the composers for his songs. this is one more aspect of mohd rafi’s singing career.
binu nair, mumbai – binus2000@hotmail.com
At the very outset let me make it abundantly clear that I do not personally know either Shri Sandeep Nadkarni or Shri Arghya. Arghya has posed some very existential questions to Sandeep sahab, which in normal circumstances would have been answered by anybody by return post. We must understand here that Shri Sandeep, though critically sick and 77, quite regularly contributes on this forum. Then, why this continuous silence ?
Priya Sanyal, post 85, has raised a very valid point, what if Arghya is proved wrong ? We all have developed a soft corner and respect for Nadkarniji. I for one fervently hope that he will come out with relevant facts.
The lack of response from Nadkarni sahab, however, also tempts me to think counter to Priya’s poser.
Priya and my other dear friends, what if Arghya is proved right ?
Padmanabhan NR
Rafi Foundation, Hyderabad Chapter.
RAFIANS ARE NOT LIKE GANDHIJI….. i thought that rafi fans are all gandhians…… thought that they are all very cultured, very gentle like our mohd rafi saaheb and will offer the other cheek when a slap occurs in one cheek. i am talking of detective cop mr arghya dutta who has been behaving like on – to a senior industry musician named mr.sandeep nadkarni saaheb.
the posts of Priya sanyal ( No 85 ) and of haldar saaheb (post 84) has duly conveyed that rafi fans will atleast answer to these parasites who have frog in the well attitude who come herein to pollute the waters – herein.
mr.arghya : please note that mr.sandeep has said nothing new . all these things we know from journos and musicians from the industry. we are never questining ur “musical tastes” – hence let’s have ‘our pleasant music which appeals to our ears” and some of the realistic things which happened in the industry. you can’t gag our thought process. make this amply clear and leave this site as fast as u can.
binu nair….
I had some amount of respect for Salil Choudhary for his great compositions, though his scent use of Rafi’s voice in his compositions always mystified me. But I always took it as ‘just one of those things’. Many a times regional considerations override the creative instincts of the people (RDB, SDB are the other examples). I thought that it was Salil’s loss that he did not use Rafi saab as much as he should have. But when I read post no. 74 wherein Mr Haldhar has quoted Salilda accusing (in a radio interview), rafi of using ‘gimmicks’ in his singing, it was too much for me to tolerate. Did Salildamean that music maestros like Naushad, SJ, OPN, LP MM etc. created those master pieces by employing a singer who used gimmicks? What a shame!! Or did he try to project himself on a higher platform than other music directors? Are the songs ‘Man tadpat hari darshan ko aaj man…’ or ‘Din dhal jaaye haae…’ or ‘Abhi naa jaao chhod kar…’ or ‘Is rang badalti duniyaa mein….’; (and thousands more) gimmicks? In one sentence Salil has insulted not only our Rafi saab but also almost entire music fraternity of the golden era of Indian film music, and that is unacceptable. Salilda is no more. It pains me to say such harsh words about him. But he had said something that has prompted these harsh words.
Dear Arghya,
I like detective stories too; I’m sure you share my passion for Felu da. Remember Gangtok-ey Gondogol? My detective story will also end in Gangtok but will start in Darjeeling, a favourite haunt of mine during my younger days.
Before I start writing my story, let me make one thing very clear: Rafi saab, Kishore da and Mukesh bhai are legends; no one will ever be able to replace them. If they were singing today, singers like Sonu, Kumar Sanu and Abhijeet would be singing in hotels and bars.
And I promise you one thing; I will not bring in Kishore da. But because you love Salil da and Kishore da, the title of my story is “Jungal mein mor nacha kisi ne na dekha”, a unique blend of melody and comedy. If you haven’t heard the song, here it is for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwbhh5Q6cCc
In the process of writing the story, I will ask you a series of questions. The first one is a rhetorical one: Jangal mein mor nacha kisise na dekha; kyun?
I promise you one more time that I’ll not bring in Kishore da. And if you don’t answer my questions, my young friends myk and kapil will answer those questions for you. But I’m going to request myk and kapil to give some time to you to respond.
Arghya Dutta ,a kishore kumar fan,,,is here for no appriciation of Rafi sahab but with the approch of suspection…..Anyway,,Arghya,,refer to comment 27 by Mr nadkarini in dur reh kad na kado baat,,,and go ahead with ur crime branch investigation….http://www.mohdrafi.com/meri-awaaz-suno/door-rahkar-na-karo-baat-an-immortalized-affirmation.html?cp=1#comments
Arghya,i`ve followed ur discussions with savita,manish and smitha,months ago,,,with savita garcia ur debates presented me a very nice image of urs that u r not a mere critic but a real admirer of music who respect rafi sahab and kishore da both…..and i myself,conrgatulated u for ur foundation,,,but whats now,,,,,whats going on here,,,may be u r right or not,,,but just for a moment think if u r wrong,,then ur suspicion would be nothing but an insult to a legendry person who has contributed to golden era of music…
Expecting this issue to be resolved very soon from both side.
Thank you
Dear Arghya,
Since you seem to be hobnobbing with luminaries like Bhanu Gupta and Basudeb Chakrabarti nowadays, why don’t you ask them if they have heard of a journalist by the name of Raju Bharatan? I’m quoting him from one of his articles:
————–
“Rafi perhaps nursed the sneaking feeling that Lata, in reality, was not prepared to acknowledge his late-earned suzerainty. While the two, for example, were rendering Tasveer Teri Dil Mein (to go on Mala Sinha-Dev Anand in Maya: 1961), Lata had even lost her cool with Rafi in a certain passage of the song.
Rafi here felt belittled upon seeing Salil Chowdhury siding with Lata. Certain composers were not all out for Rafi and Lata knew it. Yet just hear, afresh, Tasveer Teri Dil Mein and you just cannot tell where Rafi is anything less than Lata.”
—————
Given your connections, I’m sure you’d be able to establish contact with him. Why don’t you first verify the story with him? As for Salil’s other quotes on Rafi, let me know if you need them; many of them are publicly available. According to him, Rafi had problems with fast-changing harmonic progressions. I guess he is implying that his main singers Talat and Mukesh never had a problem with those progressions. What a conceited person! Ask the Salil group in Kolkata if they know of anyone who could come anywhere near Rafi’s “Toote huwe khwabo ne”; swapno bhenge jabe.
Mr.Arghya Post 82 : Do you know that elderly people forget things and names which happened many years back.
i had the opportunity to meet these seniors in the music industry a number of times. they either brush aside uncomfortable queries or say they do not remember them – since they happended long past. they will try to be diplomatic on controversial subjects .if you persist, they become angry tooo.
all they need in a meeting with them – is to talk good about their music – only.
Please do not act as a “bully” or a “cop” in this forum and demand, i say demand – peoples telephone nos and addresses. i seriously object to that mr.arghya dutta. please duly take a note of this.
the internet is for sharing views -not at all for sharing personal details – involuntarily. I hope u possess commonsense understanding and is literate too to understand such issues .
Kindly, put ur spare time in listening to ur most favourite composers/singers
and not behaving like a detective when different views are expressed in the forum.
binu nair.
awaiting your reply ‘sandeep nadkarni’ sahab..
kindly also give us the details of the songs of RDB where you played violin in recording studio. We will verify them with no one else but Manohari Singhji.. As a legendary singer used to call you ‘laadla beta’ according to your claim, you must be quite a celebrity,sir! Surprising, none of your colleagues recognize you even!!
Respond with contact address, contact number and song details. Pancham and salil forums from Pune and Kolkata as well as family members of Basudev Chakraborty ( I hope you know who he was) are eager to know who you are and make certain points clarified as your own authenticity.
Regards,
Arghya Dutta.
Haldar Ji,
A while back you said that after mid 70s Rafi Sahab should have worked more on the non filmi Gazals and Bhajans with the likes of Khayyam and MM . I couldn’t agree more on that, take his “Paon padu tore shyaam” and “Bas ke dushwaar hai”, such songs are 1000 times more “musically” and “lyrically” enriched than his most of filmi songs post 1975.
Thanks for your views on MM-Rafi unreleased album.
Haldar-ji,
Thanks, I bought the album and I must say it is definitely sublime.
“Mehbooba meri mehbooba” reminds me of many of the Jaikishan love songs that Rafi sang….so sweet, melodious, and breezy.
Only Rafi could do full justice to those amazing and difficult MM tunes….and ofcourse Talat also had his own space in MM land with his excellent ghazals (and other songs) under the maestro.
Thank you Haldar sir for the Rafi-MM clip. This album would be the first thing I buy when I am in India.
Ushaji:
We are all humans and naturally we react when we feel that our ‘farishta’ had been ill-treated. So please don’t feel too bad about these discussions. Having said that, you may rest assured there would be no contributon from my side to this particular debate in this article. And let me congratulate you whole-heartedly once again for such a wonderful article.
Dear Kapil, Anil Cherian, MYK and all my young friends,
Here’s a slow delivery that kept low and hit the stumps:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWCQPed0tnM
Short but beautiful. It’s from the album “Tere Bagair” (unreleased compositions of Madan Mohan). I’ve been addicted to the title song since I first heard it a year ago. The song was recorded in the mid 60′s. Even God cannot reproduce that voice.
Out of the 15 songs in the album, 7 are Rafi’s. Get the album as soon as you can. A must buy!
dear rafi bhakths,
my sincere request to all rafi bhakths. please, let us not continue with the raging debate about the r.d. burman-mohd rafi controversy. friends, can a small lamp ever obscure the brightness of the mighty sun? the answer is a resounding NO!
rafi sahab’s innumerable songs — each one a gem– bear testimony to the legendary singer’s immense singing prowess and provide a fitting reply to his detractors. more over, rafi sahab was way above petty human emotions like jealousy, bitterness, anger and hatred. he never bore any ill-will towards anybody. we will be doing a great disservice to the memory of this noble soul by continuing with this debate.
with warm regards,
usha g rao.
ushaji
Thanks to remembering old songs of naya raasta a nadiadwala film and balraj-jeetu -nanda starrer.
sandeep nadkarni sahab..
With all investigations done from all the associates of Pancham and Salil Chowdhury, even in the likes of Mr. Bhanu Gupta, a close associate of both the MDs, there has been no proof your authenticity established, as you call yourself a member of Panchamda troop. People related to RD and SC have declined to recognize you.. The most resemblant violinist who has been identified is Mr. Sandeep Thakur and not “Nadkarni”..
This is a warning to prove your authenticity and back up of whatever you have officially quoted over here.. Your contact address and phone number would be highly appreciable.
Wishing you a speedy recovery,
Arghya Dutta.
post 73:
Dear Mr. Cherian,
Lata di had sung the same tune in Bengali a year earlier. Here it is for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhXbqQgioMI
You are absolutely right that changing the scale at the last moment could be problematic for any singer. And that is what happened. But despite that, rafi saab came out on top.
I am providing you an excerpt from Salilda’s website:
“Some of Salil’s best compositions are in this film. Besides, 4 songs by Rafi includes the well-known ‘Zindagi hai kyaa, sun meri jaa.n’ which is based on the theme of Limelight ( the famous Charlie Chaplin film). Although it’s widely known that Rafi had a tough time trying to sing the antara of ‘Tasveer teri dil mei.n’, I think he did a marvellous job and sang 4 very different and unforgettable songs.”
Even while praising Rafi, this reviewer had to qualify his comments. And that is because Salil himself had spread this misinformation through his mouthpiece Raju Bharatan. What happened within the recording room should have stayed inside. Instead, this story has been widely circulated in an attempt to showcase Lata’s superiority over Rafi.
A lof of our friends on this forum have been advising sandeep nadkarni saab to exercise restraint. I wonder what these people were doing when Salil was leaking this information to the press. Even if the incident were true, Salil should have never talked about it to outsiders. But since it is already out, “truth in reporting” requires that we hear both sides of the story.
I am really disappointed that some of our friends have become so weak-kneed when mr. nadkarni, who had an inside view of the proceedings, decided to reveal what had actually happened. I don’t know what they are afraid of.
I recall vividly one interview that salil gave to raju bharatan in the 70s:
raju: salil da, why are you not using your “toote huwe khwabon mein” rafi?
salil: are you sure he won’t try his gimmicks?
Nadkarni saab, I trust every word you’ve written on Salil.
Binaji:
Actually I was about to enquire Sandeep sir whether the scale was raised or lowered. Listening to the song, it is obvious that it is Lataji who’s struggling with the high notes and not Rafisahab.
The switches of notes in the song is pretty sharp, swift, unpredictable and decisive (like many of the Salil tunes) and any change of scale at the last minute whether up or down would make singing it tough. Perhaps, Lataji might already have rehearsed with the altered scale and Rafisahab would have been caught completely surprised when he came for the recording.
Speaking of high notes, a male voice can’t really compete with a female voice. Female voices have almost unlimited range both in the upper and lower registers. It is in the high ‘ma’/'pa’ notes that Lataji struggles usually where she can’t really make the transition from the full (chest) voice to the head voice. But going further up she is more comfortable having completely switched over to the head voice.
Sandeep Nadkarni Sir:
Refer your post no. 63.. I find it very difficult to believe that Rafi Saab found it difficult to pick up the high pitch set by Salilda for tasveer teri dil mein from the film maya…dont we all swear by Rafi Saab’s ability to strike the high notes without batting an eyelid?….especially, when he had already sung the same MDs toote hue khwabon ne from Madhumati at a much higher note than the one from maya…!!!
Bina
Even though Salil changed the composition of the maya duet, mohd rafi came out as the winner. listen to the song “tasveer tere dil me jis din se basayee hai” – and u will find this to be true.
binus
Myk, as you said, Aaradhana or no Aaradhana Rafi is the greatest, in a similar vein i would say, Salil or no Salil, Biswas or no Biswas, Pancham or no Pancham, Rafi is the greatest, no doubt Biswas and Salil contributed amazingly to HFM, but anti-Rafi bias of 2 or 3 great MDs takes nothing out of Rafi.
Listen following Rafi gems from a musical bonanza Kajal(1965) by Ravi, no matter from which singer’s camp you belong to, the songs will simply blow you off your feet:
1. Chhu lene do nazuk hoton ko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMWOoMu6Vd0
2. Aapke pas jo aayega
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZFKIVimkNk
3. Ye zulf agar khulke bikhar jaye
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLB833QEMLY
Dear Sandeep Nadkarni Uncle,
With due respects to you, your great profession and for your well-being & quick recovery
Your recent outburst on R D Burman & Salil Choudhari can well be understandable mainly considering your deep love, respect and your admiration for our beloved king of melody Mohammed Rafi Saab
However in the present circumstances when all these legends in their own adversity are not alive and are no more with us, the sudden burst of crackers on your part is definitely not in a good taste and hence not digestible Sir
Yes many may & may agree with you that Panchamda & Salilda did dislike Rafi Saab as also there were many more in your own industry who had the same opinion on the greatest of all Rafi Saab but has that made any such difference to the reputation of the titan amongst titans – Rafi Saab. My answer will be no and never. Nadkarni Saab they all were jealous and did not possess the sheer confidence which Saab had within himself.
Pancham & Salil Choudhary as all are aware had their own cup of tea and were always inclined & interested in Kishore Kumar & Mukesh respectively as compared to the legend. Subsequently you might have also observed & noticed that a genius of Naushad’s caliber had only one song for Kishore Kumar can that be substantiated & discussed more from your point of view.
Like-wise you may also take the examples of Hemant Kumar (hardly 35 songs) & Anil Biswas (exactly 07 songs only) who hardly had much songs or renditions with Rafi Saab
As you are quite aware of being a part & parcel of this glorifying industry that every musician or music director for that matter of fact has had their own choice & favor for their singers, then why on earth you have thought for this sudden outburst I for one am not aware, please clarify sir.
Above all when our own dearest Rafi Saab never ever had any qualms & complaints on the subject matter, than who are we & why are we fighting over this very a small a issue Sandeep Sir.
Mohammed Rafi Saab has always had that extra class and that extra confidence of punch in him which no other singer in this world would ever have boasted for. Can there ever be an example where Rafi Saab was the product of a music director the answer will be never ever because the music directors were in fact the several products of Rafi Saab and his domain & the beautiful Rafi kee duniya !!!
Kapil (Ref. Post 62):
From what I have heard, Pancham was a genuine good soul who never said a bad thing against anyone. However recent revelations on this website go against that idea. I am not saying he was a bad person, but he did also have had his whims, bias, and so forth. Pyarelal mentioned that Pancham genuinely respected and rated Rafi high. That view is supported by the things Pancham has said about Rafi (lip-service or not).
The point is that regardless, Pancham knew very well, as Rajiv Vijayakar would say, “which side his Rafi bread had to be kept buttered”.
On the other hand, Jaikishan (S-J) would have beat RD at his own game had he lived post September 1971. Here is a KK-Asha duet from 1971, “Saanjh savere nain”, the film is Duniya Kya Jaane, notice the orchestration (I suspect its a Jai song) and the melody.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwgFKGm0klY
Starting from Shailendra’s death in 1966, one by one the greats of HFM started to achieve immortality. As Rafi-saab himself said in his tribute to SDB, with Roshan, Jai, MM and SDB gone, the “melody” in HFM went along with them. Rafi’s death was ofcourse the final and biggest blow to HFM.
Usha g. rao : Post 64…..
when i was reading your above post, i was “believing” that i was reading “my” own post.
Sahir saaheb was unmatchable and he left few months within mohd rafi going away. i remember when sahir died, there was an editorial in the times of india about sahir’s life and times.
very few leftists can have the prievelege of an editorial in the commercial marwari news paper group toi.
sahir ludhianvi was too towering a writer for the toi to ignore him.
usha ji –pls keep up the good works and the rejoinders too….
binu nair.
post 63:
Dear Nadkarni saab,
I don’t know how to thank you for revealing the truth about the Maya incident. I had always suspected Pancham of foul play when it came to rafi; your posts simply validated my suspicion. But the Maya incident was a total revelation to me. It is unfortunate that when it comes to the Rafi-Lata equation, the mainstream press in India is so one-sided. In Raju Bharatan’s hagiography on Lata, he quotes Salil as saying that Rafi had problems in picking up the tune and Lata became irritated because of that. The diplomat that she is, Lata didn’t say anything. She didn’t lie but at the same time she didn’t tell us the truth.
What Raju Bharatan writes becomes gospel. And his sources are none other than the three great Rafi lovers: Anil Biswas, Salil Chowdhury and R. D. Burman. Nadkarni saab, if you don’t mind, I’m going to write an article using your posts as support. I’ve waited for a long time for someone from Rafi saab’s inner circle to give us his side of the story. But not a single word from his wife, his sons, or his daughters; not even from Zaheer bhai. If it were not for you, we would have had to hear this constant chatter from mischief mongers whose only claim to fame is that they can quote Raju Bharatan, the serial liar.
post 61:
Binu ji, here are my comments on your post. Pancham was a bengali at heart; in bengali, there’s a saying “money-praney bangali” which aptly describes him. His mother Meera Sen spent time in Shanitniketan; you can’t get more bengali than that. He grew up in South Kolkata; his house is within 10 minutes walking distance from my house. His bahu has sung more songs in bengali than in marathi and that’s mainly due to the fact that pancham always used to compose songs for her in bengali. You are right that his father hailed from Tripura but culturally and linguistically, the differences between tripurans and east bengalis are not that great. Also, sd spent a lot of his time in Comilla (now in B’desh) and Kolkata. In fact, his initially forays into music were all in Bengal and he was deeply influenced by Tagore and Nazrul, in addition to the classical masters.
For Rafi saab, the rides on Bengal-Nagpur railway were never comfortable, despite the fact that he had two of his most fanatic support bases in Bengal and Maharashtra. The Howrah-Bombay mail, which used to stop in Nagpur, somehow got derailed near Khandwa. Look at how well pancham fit into the scheme of things. Thanks to him, someone reached the top and started telling his fans “Sala main to saab ban gaya”. Another singer finally had her hope realised of becoming a bengali bahu. But the biggest beneficiary was another singer who heaved a sigh of relief; with the competition taken care of, the ivy only kept climbing higher and higher [this paragraph is for humour only; no disrespect to anyone].
hello girish,
ref.post 12, aug 25th
thank you for your comments on my article. you have made some very valid points in your writeup. i am sorry i could not respond to it earlier. rest assured that you have not stirred a hornet’s nest but initiated a healthy, meaningful debate.
i do agree with you that it is wrong to make sweeping generalizations by painting all rich people black and all poor people white. but then people with leftist leanings — sahir ludhianviji was one of them — most often tend to gravitate towards this line of thinking.
at the same time, dont you think it is the people belonging to economically and socially weaker sections who get exploited and oppressed in our society? there are two sets of laws in this country — one for the rich and one for the poor. dont we hear of cases where the rich with their money power buy justice and go scot-free after committing crimes whereas a poor man is crucified for the same? it must have been these injustices that were the cause for sahir saheb’s outburst and tirade against the wealthy and the influential in the song ‘main ne pi sharab’.
juxtapose the lyrics of the above song with that of ‘ponch kar ashq apni ankhon se’, where the same sahir saheb entreats earnestly the poor and the down-trodden to fight injustice, to swim against the current and make their own life and shape their own destiny — “zindagi bheekh me nahin milti………. chheen pao toh koi baat bane.”
the other two antaras of this song are equally hard-hitting, one beginning with the words ‘rang aur nasl, jaat aur mazhab’ which says that it is the human being who reigns supreme, above caste, colour, race and religion. the last antara “nafraton ke jahan me hum ko” speaks of inclusion, of love helping to build bridges between people.
i,therefore, think it is fair to conclude that sahir sahab’s writing panned the entire gamut of human emotions, thoughts and idiosyncrasies and situations that arise in life due to man’s foibles.
with best wishes, usha g rao.
Friends and then there was also Salil Choudhary who disliked or did not agree with Rafi Saab’s domain. In-fact he was one of the most jealous personality when it came to using Rafi Saab under his music composition. Even he for sure knew that certain songs which he has composed for Rafi Saab can be sung by Rafi & Rafi only.
I would like to narrate one such most stupid incidence of Salilda from the film “Maya” and the song was “Tasveer teri dil mein jis din se utaree hai” It was on the sheer insistence & instigation of none other than the melody queen herself that he dared to change the pitch of Rafi Saabs version at the very last moment. In-spite of repeated requests from Rafi Saab this staunch Salilda was adamant on his decision.
After this incidence there happened to be a non-ending dual between Rafi Saab & Salil Choudhari and ultimately it was Saab who decided for good not to associate any further with Salilda. Hence in this film “Maya” one will observe songs rendered by none other than of the class of Dwijen Mukherjee also. Was this the class of Salilda?
Unfortunately for me since I was involved in the final take of this song I indeed consider myself to be involved in the most un-luckiest songs of my career
Myk,
————————————
RD also mentioned that he would regret forever not using Rafi as much as he wanted to, so atleast he realized his mistake (even though he still used him a lot).
———————————–
Though i like Rafi-RD, but don’t you think that article was just a lip service? I also heard once OP Nayar calling Lata No.1 singer in AIR, great lip service by Nayyar Sahab, as Nayyar repertoire says all what he would think of Lata, he never used Lata, his reasoning was Lata didn’t suit his style, and i seriously suspect on that, IMO lata could easily have sung those tunes, just like Rafi could also have eaisly sung the tunes of Anil Biswas, latter too said once Rafi didn’t suit his style, though it takes nothing out of the greatness of either of the composers, but one thing for sure, OP did have something personal against Lata, likewise biswas too had something personal against Rafi.
RD too could have used Rafi much more in his early 70′s period, against the wishes of the producers then, like MM did, but he definitely had some bias against Rafi .
Anyways, i don’t mind really if some composer prefers some other singer and comes up with phenomenol album like Amar Prem, but i do mind when same set of singer composer comes up with mediocres like “Ishq Ishq Ishq” or “Warrant” etc
Your Take Buddy …:-)
Sandeep Nadkarni Saaheb : Post…56….
Not a word is untrue in the above mentioned post. No Rejoinder or comments now – as “such” people which you mentioned – did have two sets of teeth.
for many of these people regional bonding were greater than their art of creating “great work of arts”.
i am remembered of the fact that kishore used to take pride in stating that he was from khandwa, not bengal. he wanted to retire to khandwa, never to bengal during his illness borne last days.
r.d.burman/sdb belongs to tripura, not west bengal. manohari singh came from nepal but always was in the salil-sdb-rdb camps.
rightly said sandeep ji, before mohd rafi lovers they (and others) used to hide their true colous.
binu nair
@ p haldar saahab:
here are the exact statistics of “kya hua tera wada”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UGuXUN09PA
(1.35 million views)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDbK1eZYVzg
(400,000 views)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSRirYJtbgk
(350,000 views)
there were 2 more videos, 1 with almost 200,000 views and one with 75,000 views
i think it equals 2.3 million views in total, making it the highest viewed golden era song.
haldar sahab, ref post no. 55. hats off to you when you have the temerity to state : “I don’t know whether you or anyone else will agree with me, but my own take on this matter has always been this: sd or no sd, rafi would have finished kishore in a few days if it were not for rd. I know this statement of mine would be very offensive to many, especially to kishore fans, but this is my personal view and I’m not afraid to air it in public”. resolute lines. made a bold statement and i believe you are right.
Mr. P. Haldar saab,
Some of the best examples I can think of are 1) Koi aur dunia main tumsa hasin hain from pyar ki kahani – Amitabh, 2) Zamane ne maare.. from baharon ke sapne – rajesh khanna. no body other than my beloved rafisaab can deliever such a brilliant performance. If I can figure this out it was not very difficult for rdb to figure this out. He secrificed some of his best tunes for his association with or love for kk.
Haldar-ji (Ref. Post 55):
Excellent write-up and I do agree with everything you have to say. Although RD-KK was great, so was RD-Rafi. Pancham could have done more with Rafi-saab, but that does not take anything away from the great songs they produced. I think if not for Mrs. Hope, and his blind love for KK, RD would have done things differently. RD mentions the reason for not using Rafi as much as he wanted to as due to times changing, producers etc. and so forth. However he could have always gone against that as he had clout and power to express his own freedom in the 70′s. RD also mentioned that he would regret forever not using Rafi as much as he wanted to, so atleast he realized his mistake (even though he still used him a lot).
Anyways, we all know he made bad choices when it came to certain male songs, choices that exposed the limitations of his pet singer rather than the strengths. I think he realized that and by the late 70′s, was setting his sights more the Rafi way. Their second-innings partnership together was fantastic and would have rocked the 80′s had Rafi been there.
You mentioned once that Pancham probably reminded Rafi of Jaikishan. The handsome Gujarati composer was by far one of the stand out talents in the industry (along with Shankar), a trend-setter, complete composer, background music specialist etc. He was idolized and loved by many.
How sad at just 39, Jaikishan left us, and although he gave us many great songs, he had a lot left in him for the future. In fact, Jai was of the same age bracket as L-P, Pancham and K-A, its just that he started much earlier than all of them and his partner was around ten years senior, so it seemed he belonged to the previous generation.
I have a few questions for you Haldar-ji (please answer):
a) Would you say Pancham was Jaikishan’s successor in the sense that he carried forward his legacy ?. Who was the better composer in your opinion ?.
b) Had Jai been there in the 70′s, would he have forced a change in the tide ?. Remember it was he who also gave Kishore one of his career- biggest hits in “Zindagi ek safar” (Andaz) before he passed away.
c) You have not written much about Rafi’s combo with K-A, and I would love to know your views on the songs they produced together. K-A and Rafi formed a formidable partnership. K-A used a variety of male singers in a great way (Mukesh, Kishore, Mahendra Kapoor etc.), but they reserved many a masterpiece for Rafi, including those amazing Lata-Rafi duets.
d) How would you compare K-A to their contemporaries ?.
Dear Mr P Haldarjee,
Technically R D Burman was a great musician himself who in-fact knew his work & culture very well. Remember the film “Dosti” with music by Laxmikant Pyarelal in which it was none other than Pancham who had cooperated & helped the duo of LP a lot.
But the fame & slow popularity as one says almost kills ones own instincts and this is exactly what transpired from the likes of R D Burman in the later years.
Pancham in his recording rooms situated at Santacruz, Mumbai always used to remark “Rafi Saab Kaun Bada Aaya”. He was then with his own separate group led by the inimitable Manohari Singh or Manori Da (as one calls him). Manori too used to like & admire Kishore Kumar more than Rafi Saab. In-fact Manori was one of the greatest lieutenants of Pancham. Here I would like to say that “logonke khane ke aur dikhane ke daat aur hote hai”. Today since Manori has no other alternative one will find him praising Rafi Saab in every nook & corner and almost in every stage show in which he is present. Anyone please ask Manori what was his state when he was almost pumped by Rafi Saab while rendering the song “Ye duniya useekee zamana useeka” from the film “Kashmir Ki Kali” with O P Nayyar. It was Rafi Saab who had won the jugalbandi between Manori’s saxophones compared with Rafi Saab’s voice.
Pancham’s turning point came in the Vijay Anand directorial classic “Teesri Manzil” produced by the titan Nasir Hussain Saab. If it was not for the loving favor of Rafi Saab, Pancham would have almost lost this film which was almost in the platter of none other than the greatest orchestration pair Shankar-Jaikishan the very pet of Shammi Kapoor. Friends see how Rafi Saab almost pulled R D Burman from the bushes and thereafter he became the hero of Nasir Hussain and the rest is history.
If any one for the matter of fact can visualize & see the history one can easily solve the simple equation – e.g. take any film of Pancham in which Rafi has sung for him – it was mainly on account of the pressure either from the leading hero of the film or the producer of the film. Hence RDB had no alternative than to prefer Rafi Saab in such cases. In other films where the pressure was almost minimal Rafi Saab though used to render for Pancham since Pancham was clearly aware & knew that this particular song can be confidently rendered by Rafi & Rafi only especially in most of the high pitched renditions e.g. “Yamma Yamma” from the film “Shaan”
Dear Friends & all my well wishers – a million thanks for all the wishes for my health –
post 54:
binu ji, very well said. I know there were other personalities involved. I don’t know whether you or anyone else will agree with me, but my own take on this matter has always been this: sd or no sd, rafi would have finished kishore in a few days if it were not for rd. I know this statement of mine would be very offensive to many, especially to kishore fans, but this is my personal view and I’m not afraid to air it in public. You can call pancham a hero or a villain depending on which group you belong to. I’d openly admit that the rd-kk combo was a great one. rd-rafi combo was also good but it could have been much better had pancham not let his blind love for kishore cloud his own musical judgment. I agree with mr. korti that pancham’s relationship with rafi was a complex one; the complexity arose because the relationship was moderated by another relationship, a totally blind one. You need to interpret nadkarni saab’s statement from that perspective. It really doesn’t matter whether the aradhana songs were initially earmarked for rafi or not. Look at pancham’s pattern of behavior post-71 and his bias will become clear as crystal.
it is also important to remember that rafi was as much at home with the burmans as he was with shankar and jaikishan. The junior burman used to be at rafi saab’s side since the time he was wearing half-pants. Musically, father and son never had any problems with rafi saab. But whereas the father showered the highest of accolades on rafi, the son, at least publicly, was much more reticent. The reasons have nothing to do with music. Bring rd and rafi together and there’s a high chance that it will result in a major hit. Among several sites for “kya hua tera wada”, one is slowly approaching the 1.5 million mark and a site for “chand mera dil” is approaching 1 million hits. The combo would have rocked the 80s if rafi saab were alive; but that was not to be!
Ironically, the last song I heard rafi saab sing live on stage was “aaja aaja main hoon pyar tera”. RD along with his entire troupe performed that night before rafi saab graced the stage. RD sang with asha first, then kishore joined, then swapan c. joined; all of them had so much fun together on stage. And, oh, I forgot to tell you that mrs. hope changed her sari three times during her performance. And do you want to know which musicians were present on stage? Here’s a sample: kersi lord, manohari singh, uttam singh, hemant bhosle…and at least 15 other top musicians of the film industry.
When rafi saab came on stage, he had with him only six musicians: Narinder Kaka, Leslie Godinho, Anibal Castro, Syed Ali, Ramnarang Naidu and Anwar Ahmed. Only six musicians and Usha Timothy. That is all he needed to decimate the entire competition. Almost the entire music world was pitted against him. Pancham did not have the simple decency to come and greet him on stage; remember this was his hometown. The least he could have done is to come on stage and touch the feet of a figure who was blessed by Saigal as the chosen one.
RE : HALDAR Ji’s Post 51, Let me present one more view on the politics of music on one side and composer r d burman’s wish to prefer kishore over rafi post aradhana.
this is what shri shakti samanta told me six months before he died.
“i wanted to finish my film aradhana and mohd rafi was’nt available for recording of the songs. he was on a foreign tour.
i requested s.d.burman to take the services of kishore kumar for the songs since kishore was always singing for him.
kishore agreed to sing for rajesh khanna and the songs were recorded.”
i do not think that rdb was “solely” responsible for the whole episode. it was a case of many things happening at a given point at that time.
after aradhana became a musical hit the politics of the music industry coupled with rajesh khanna’s rise in popularity, the jealosies of a known group of singers who were eager-ly looking to dis-lodge mohd rafi – all came in to play – all at the same time.
amin sayani’s binaca geetmala became the focal meeting point of mohd rafi baters during the days. Keeping mohd rafi songs out or playing it down had became the trend on wednesdays – when the whole country were glued to radio sets to hear binaca geet malas.
just as a tide cannot be put down, these elements could not put down mohd rafi. when rafi was thinking about an retirement in the seventies, his guru naushad saaheb had chided rafi for trying to go away from the scene.
do you think the other singer has an iota of talent as compared to you? naushad saaheb had angrily retorted .
ironically it was mohd rafi who gave hits after hits to rd burman in the final era of his carreer.
r.d. burman went too far m- in promoting kishore kumar and his wife and paid for it with his musical career – once s.d.burman passed away.
binu nair, rafi foundation, mumbai : 9833 250 701
Dear Haldar-ji,
I fully agree with you.
However what I don’t understand is that the same Raju Bharatan (who has spread lies) about the whole Aradhana situation (and ofcourse many other things), has mentioned the exact same story that Nadkarni-ji related. Could RB actually be right this time ?.
Ofcourse I have never said I don’t believe what Nadkarni-ji has mentioned, we should believe what he says since he had direct contact with Pancham (and others), but with all the other factors in the mix, it would be great to unearth the mystery.
Nadkarni Ji,
There are instances in one’s life when one is not satisfied by what he has but yearns for things he never had. The brief that we know about you through these columns are the only -unfortunately- interactions that we could have with you. Your personal write-ups in these columns are not only great insights into film music but they also serve as beacons as to how good people like you can also survive and make a mark for yourselves amidst all these schemings.
in fact, that way you are closest to our dear Rafi Sahab in that like him, you are also rising like a phoenix from the ashes. Likes/ dislikes/ bias or prejudice can slow one from achieving the cherished objectives for a short while. But in the end, class will tell. rafi sahab had to undergo those pangs himself, suffering in the process. But, how did he come out of all this ? By belting out numbers which will never be surpassed for all times to come.
in a sense it is good that we hear of such adversaries. His melodious singing was unparallelled. His character, too, comes out shining like never before. These instances only go on to substantiate the great void between him and the also-rans. I have no love love lost for any of these singers, let me make it abundantly clear. they are/were all good – but in their own domain. None could come out of those limiting factors. and here was a humble soul who when given a chance to showcase his range, accepted and conquered those boundaries that others had self-imposed for themselves.
Beyond a certain point it will not matter how many opportunities one squandered to come on top but how many challenges one faced and converted them into opportunities to remain at the top – even beyond death.
That is Mohd. Rafi for us.
nadkarniji, yahaan toh aapse nahin mil paaye, wahaan zaroor milenge…..
Padmanabhan NR
Member
Rafi Foundation Hyderabad Chapter & baar baar rafi club, bangalore.
Dear myk,
Rafi saab used to go for foreign tours all the time. The protocol was to wait for Rafi saab to return and then record the songs with him. Shakti Samanta could travel to Paris because of the countless hits Rafi saab gave him in film after film: Howrah Bridge, Singapore, Chinatown, Sawan ki Ghata, Kashmir ki Kali… He would have ordinarily waited for Rafi saab at Santa Cruz Airport before recording any songs. Go through his filmography from 1958 to 1969 and you’ll see what I mean. All these excuses being offered are nothing but a sham. The anti-Rafi brigade has been spreading all kind of false propaganda through that serial liar called Raju Bharatan.
SD was known to be present at the final take for almost all his songs, even during his illness. It is also well known that SD had this habit of recording the same song by different singers. So the pictures don’t tell us much. There was definitely a lot of manoeuvring going on behind the scenes. The jewel thief was up to his mischief (take it as humour). The same person who let one singer yodel in one song and substituted it with mandolin for another singer. Would he ever have asked his favourite singer to do alaaps in any song? For instance, hai agar dushman? Never; he was too smart for that.
I don’t know about personal likes/dislikes. But I do believe in the central theme of Nadkarni saab’s post. He was on Pancham’s payroll and he wouldn’t say anything against his boss unless he knew the truth. For too long, we have seen crap written by folks like Raju Bharatan. Rafi saab never said even remotely negative about any musician and see the kind of crap being still written about him. It is time that we trust our own people more than folks from other camps.
Santoshji, Binaji:
It happens sometimes with good people, actually it happens more with good people (bad vibes from people who were benefited by these good people). But then does it really matter at the end of the day? it didn’t matter to Rafisahab when he was there in this world. I believe many of us have seen that video (in the youtube) of Rafi sahab paying his tribute to SDB. He had only very kind words about someone who flew high using his (Rafisahab’s) wings and gave cold shoulders when he reached the peak. Had Rafisahab been alive today he would be having similar kind words about the son also.
Dear Nadkarni Saab:
Aapka patr padhkar main yeh mehsoos kar sakti hoon aap kitne thakaan se likh rahe hain. I pray for your health Nadkarni Saab…you have lived your life with dignity and you hold a respected place in our hearts.
The revelation that you have made about Rafi-RD relationship is all at once incredible and saddening, as I cannot even begin to think why one would dislike a mahaan atma like Rafi Saab…phir bhi fate is sometimes cruel, and it was Rafi Saab’s naseeb that he had to encounter bad vibes from RD….par yeh kya kam hai ki Rafi Saab never let this fact affect the quality of songs that he delivered under RD’s baton… aur isee badhakpan ke kaaran hi toh unhonhe gaaya hai… paaya hai dushman ko jab se pyaar ke kaabil…
Deewana tujhsa nahi is ambar ke neeche, Rafi Saab..
With kind regards,
Bina
Dear Mr.Korti,
I am a small drop in the ocean of rafi saab fans.I am also not a knowledgeble person compared to you.But this bashing of rd is the sheer fustration of us rafi fans who feel that rafi saab has not been given his due.This happens when a greater singer or person is denied his rightful place.So please let us bring out the fustration.What people call fustration is love for rafi saab
Unknown 30
// rd used mohd rafi more than any male singer from 1977 to 1980 and rd was mohd rafi fan.//
Apna point facts aur figures ke saath krupaya validate karein.. Saare filmon ke naam aur gaanon ke saath.
Kapil..
Aap yahan pe jo marzi taarif kare Rafi sahab ki, magar aesi baatein na kare.. Kishore did not have “worthless work”, it is you who is “worthless”..
Dhanyavaad.
ref to my earlier post.
apologies for the typos
in the last line pl read as without fear or favour…
ref post 35
mr kapil has made a valid point. instead of wasting time, energy and needless conjecturing, kite flying and speculating on the rdb-rafi relationship, fans must exercise on the great work done with other (and more talented) composers.
i know for sure what exactly is the truth in the rafi-rdb relationship. what is appearing on this website is a whole lot of hearsay which is not fair at all. as one who knew the entire music industry inside out in those days, i can vouch that most of it is only part true, part speculation. it is neither fair to rafisaab nor to rdb, both of whom are not with us anymore. in any case nothing is going to be achieved by raking up the past muck.
all i can say is this relationship has many complicated angles to it. it is mlike trying to untangle a very deeply complex knot. you try to do that and end up complicating it more.
please stop this raf-rdb discussion once and for all. we all take great pleasure in castigating raju bharatan for writing “non sense” and do the same thing, writing something about which they have no first-hand information and based only on someone who has forwarded some so-called spicy stories/anecdotes by colouring it more.
it is one thing ro mr nadkarni (god bless him and may he live long) to say a few things on the basis of his direct association with pancham, and quite another for others to do so on the basis of merely what they feel or what they have heard from unauthorised “sources”. if they have authentic sources, they must name them with fear or favour.
Post 28
Nadkarni saab,
At the outset we all pray that you recover from this ailment as soon as possible and for this we all Rafi bakts are praying to meet you…personally…
or if not atleast call you on phone…
Your true revelation gave us insights into the politics of bollywood music and RDBurman played truant to get his fav singer a break… How sad and hope this is realised by the so called fans of Pancham da …
This is inspite of the fact that Rafi sahab gave wholehearted support to the ungrateful MD.. Also Nasir Hussain gave all the work from Teesri Manzil to the MD and he had a good rapport with Rafi sahab. If you take away the vetran director’s contribution then only few songs will be credited to the MD with Rafi sahab…
Thanks for the updates and let the whole world know the truth of blind bias for one and personal dislike for other…
Ofcourse Rafi sahab never got affected as he is an Angel/Farishta and kept smiling…
True to that he came back with a big bang with full support of his fans Manmohan Desai, LP,Usha Khanna, Madan Mohan,Nasir Hussaion ( who would have forced RDB to toe the line in films like Yaadon ki Baraat, Caravan, humkisise kum nahin etc )
Like what MYK said in the early post just because one MD ignored Rafi sahab the ocean of nectar and pure gems doesnt go away..
L Rafi sahab’s songs are always evergreen, immortal and eternal
Narayan
In fact I was regularly reading the postings of Sri Nadkarni Sahab. Now nadkarni sahab’s posting has brought a shock. Its about the exit of Nadkarni Sahab. Of course death is certain for every living being, but it pains us deeply when we know the exit of a person whom we personally know and also whom we came to know through the forum of our Rafi Sahab, since we have developed a very sensitive bondage amongst us in this forum.
I am aware that Sri Nadkarni Sahab is fighting with Cancer since the last several months. Its such a dreaded desease that freedom from it, is only the physical exit of the victim.
I pray the Almighty to allow Sri Nadkarni sahab to quit his frame without further pain & agony.
ITS ONLY THE ABSENCE OF SRI NADKARNI SAHAB FROM THIS FORUM BUT HE WILL WITH US FOREVER.
SABNAVEES
post 35:
Dear Kapil,
We are not talking about melody here but about facts. The question should never have been about whether R. D. Burman preferred Kishore to Rafi. Any person on the street knows the answer to that question. The right question to ask is whether Pancham was biased against Rafi. My hunch has always been that he was because his intent was to promote Kishore over Rafi. I realise that this statement of mine cannot be proved, but my observation of the politics in the music industry sitting hundreds of miles away in Calcutta has been rather accurate. Over two years ago, responding to an article on Rafi and Bharat Bhushan, I had written the following:
—–
P. Haldar Says:
July 12th, 2007 at 2:05 am
ref post 2:
you are absolutely right that kk’s voice didn’t suit bharat bhushan. but when rd is the md, those things don’t matter. I’m surprised that he didn’t try kishore’s voice on shammi kapoor!
—–
A person who has interviewed Nasir Hussain revealed recently that the latter had wanted Rafi to sing “Tum bin jaoon kahan” for Bharat Bhushan too but Pancham had raised strong objections and finally Nasir Hussain had to yield.
Again, there is no need to bash Pancham for his choices; as an md, he always had the right to choose his singers. But facts are facts, and there is no need to make up facts like “Rafi was Pancham’s favourite singer” and “Pancham did not prefer Kishore to Rafi”.
After you read Nadkarni Saab’s revelation about the injustice done to our Rafi saab, by RDB, we cannot help but feel that RDB also manipulated the recordings to make Rafi Saab’s voice look weaker. If you now hear the songs of Rafi Saab in the album “Tere Bagair”, you can see the difference and understand what I mean. Maybe Nadkarni Saab can throw some light on this.
Post 33 : Haldar saaheb : An Endearing Incident Before a Mumbay Concert…..
I was with dada Manohari singh at the auditorium to touch his feet and hand him over the issue of Sargam Magazine.
On seeing the Sargam mag and Rafi saahebs picture with the title : “bharat ka ratna” – mohd rafi, dada involuntary-ly said : “yehi to hai sachaaa bharat ratna. bahut khoob.
my mission was complete, for the day.
binu nair,
mumbai rafi foundation: cell 9833 250 701
Would also like to add that there is a picture of SD-Shakti-RD-Kishore-AB-Minoo Katrak at the recording of the Aradhana songs.
There are also dates that mention that the recordings of the Kishore songs were done five months before the Rafi songs.
The most probable explanation for that is that Rafi was the first choice for Aradhana (he was regardless of anything and any story), had to leave town, Kishore recorded the three songs, and then Rafi came back to record the other two. Rafi knowing the recording dates and schedule of the songs of Aradhana could also relate to any of the stories as well.
I don’t buy that Kishore was the first choice of Aradhana (as some KK fans like to claim). KK’s choice had more to do with other factors involved.
Interesting….
Anyways, does it really matter ?. Rafi is the greatest singer of all time, Aradhana or no Aradhana.
Also, a certain wife of Pancham had influence over his music (which has been discussed on this forum previously), and one should also take that into consideration when discussing Pancham and Rafi-saab.
Nadkarni-ji,
Thanks for your wonderful post.
Your story aligns with what Raju Bharatan wrote about SDB’s illness during Aradhana.
However at the same time Kishore Kumar mentioned in an audio interview after SDB’s death that SDB was active during “Kora kagaz tha yeh man”, and rehearsed/recorded the song with him. Why would Kishore have said such a thing if SDB was in fact ill during the time ?. Maybe SDB was ill, and then became well by the time he recorded the song with Kishore which was during the time Rafi was out of town.
Shakti Samanta mentioned Rafi was out of town, which is why they could not wait and went ahead with the recordings in KK’s voice.
It is not that I do not believe what you wrote, you have worked closely with Pancham, but there are many versions of the Aradhana story going around.
Also, from the stories I have heard from various sources I find it hard to believe Pancham disliked Rafi-saab but then in this case, what Nadkarni-ji has mentioned, one never knows.
I have even heard stories that Manohari Singh mentioned that RD composed “Gunguna rahe hain bhanwar” and “Bagon mein bahar hai” with Rafi. So in this case RD bringing in Kishore doesn’t add up unless he did, or wanted to do it, after these two songs (if he did compose them).
Nadkarni-ji, can you please let us know more about Rafi-saab’s association with Kalyanji-Anandji ?.
nadkarni sahab, you have done a yeoman’s service already by disclosing something which was not authenticated earlier, though known to many. we pray to the almighty to give you better health and long life ahead, and thank you from the bottom of our hearts for placing all the facts before the music lovers. it would be a good idea if someone can meet nadkarni sahab and record for posterity all his personal experiences.
Dear Friends,
Kishore da, in his prime time, was moslty associated with the MDs like RD, L-P and Bappi… now if we remove the great work these MDs have done, we would be left with a huge i repeat huge quantity of worthless work. No doubt RD was phenomenal, but then he has a *huge* mediocre work also to his credit.
My point is, instead of regretting/discussing over RDB preferred KK, why don’t we celebrate Rafi Sahab’s association with so many other quality oriented MDs, who hardly did any mediocre work:
1. Roshan
2. SDB
3. MM
4. Naushad
5. Shankar-Jaikishan
6. Ravi
7. Chitragupt
8. OP Nayyar
9. Hans Raj Behel ..
10. C Ramchandra … etc etc
Now listen below a beautiful Rafi-Lata melody by a composer, who really had a stronger hold on melody, than RD. Thanks!
Aapne yaad dilaya to mujhe(Aarti 1962):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UscBaiL5uzI
Re. post 28: Mr. Sandeep Nadkarni, read your comments, please can you tell us more about you, your association with Rafi Saheb, R.D. Burman? We would like to know more and more facts from you, please we request you to tell us more on the mentioned topic. God bless you.
Friends,
I hope you have all read Nadkarni saab’s post (post 28). I know some of you are fans of Pancham’s music. I have stated before that much as I love his music, I hate him even more for what he did to Rafi saab. I feel vindicated by Nadkarni saab’s statement. Some of you keep providing numbers (e.g., how many songs he gave to Rafi saab) but if you analyse the facts carefully, you will find that it was Pancham who decidedly turned the tide in Kishore Kumar’s favour. And if it were not for directors like Nasir Hussain, Pancham would have stayed as far away from Rafi saab as possible. In the late 70s, he used Rafi saab not because he wanted to but because he was forced to.
Some of Pancham’s fans have queried Nadkarni saab but he had maintained a discreet silence. That silence spoke louder than anything else. Nadkarni saab, it has been a rare honour for us to have someone like you on this forum. We wish you the best. Nadkarni saab, I will ask you one question. Only answer it if you want to. Among Pancham’s lieutenants, can you tell us who had a soft corner for Rafi saab; Basu or Manohari? I know Bhupi is a great fan of Rafi saab’s.
In closing, let me post one of Rafi saab’s early songs for Dada. It is from Bimal Roy’s Devdas and it’s sung in the background. See how beautifully Rafi saab brings out Dada’s conception of rural Bengal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJkW8xXhwJs
Sandeep ji… Aap hamare dil me hamesha rahenge aur is tarah aap humse door kabhi bhi nahi jaa paaoge.
aap mujhe ek baar mil ne ka mauka do, aur phir hamara bhi ek chota sa kamaal dekh lo….
ek baar humse mil lo, yeh hamara dil kehta hai…..
binu nair, mumbai, cell : + 9833 250 701
while there is no doubt about the beauty of these songs, let me give you a different take.
compare three ” drunken” songs: choo lene do nazuk honthon ko ( kaajal :raaj kumar); mujhe duniya walon ( leader : dilip kumar); mehfil se uth jaan waalon( dooj ka chand: bharat bhushan).
to each renditoin, rafi saab has given the mood of the character and the actor.
one singer one voice of god, three dimensions, three vastly different styles of composers and their compositions, but each a stand out reveletion.
in the first the grace and sophistication of raaj kumar, in the second the playfulness of an effervescent dilip kumar and in the third, the utter despair of bharat bhushan.
thank you, rafi saab and those great writers and composers.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/4837329.cms
that is true that because of RD and Rajesh Khanna KK became superhit if we agree or not but SD burman used Mohd rafi in 1970′s only for fews songs if am not wrong only six and RD used mohd rafi more than any male singer from 1977 to 1980 and RD was mohd rafi fan.
all bollywood was unfair with mohd rafi.
on 27th of ramdan we lost Mohd Rafi and last year on 27th ramdan we lost other mohd Rafi(M Kapoor)
Janab Santosh Saheb, Bahut bahut shukriya,
Here is my e-mail address. Delighted to be in your contacts.
holyfamilydr@aol.com
With regards,
Dr. Khaja Aliuddin
Friends the final & the ultimate days of my departure from this world are almost coming nearer and I am preparing for my last and the final journey. Under these circumstances I personally do not intend to take away with me the pressure of hiding a fact which was closely guarded by me for the last several years.
The sheer subject has been none other than R D Burman who in-fact was my only source of bread & butter but for me the magician Mohammed Rafi Saab had a unique place in my heart above all and hence the dearest Rafi Saab to me was everything. In-fact I was his ladla beta and hence it becomes my automatic duty to reveal a closely guarded fact which was hidden in me for the past many years.
R D Burman personally disliked Rafi Saab and instead had very high regards for Kishore Kumar which used to hurt me a lot. Indirectly R D Burman was solely responsible for promoting Kishore above all the levels when actually compared with Mohammed Rafi.
Ultimately R D Burman did get the golden opportunity in the Shakti Samanta’s film “Aradhana”. His father S D Burman initially had completed the recording of the 2 songs in this film in the voice of Rafi Saab and suddenly he fell seriously ill. In-fact S D Burman wanted to record all the songs in this film from dear Rafi Saab’s voice for which he had already planned the schedule and even Rafi Saab was aware of the situation and the dates of the recordings. Taking the advantage of the situation and his father’s illness R D Burman played a major gamble of the situation and in-spite of his father’s insistence went ahead and recorded all the other songs with the voice of Kishore Kumar and thereafter it is history
Friends for this shameful act of R D B I foe one will never ever forgive him.
Thanks Girish ji- you can mail to sivanandam_p@yahoo.com.
Although I could view it in youtube and also could listen through some sites, I wasn’t able to download.Would be thankful if you can mail.
Superb article, Ushaji. Congrats. Please keep on writing here.
Siva ji – Post 6
pls leave your email id on the board and i will mail it.
alludidinsaab , Bahut Bahut ramzan mubarka apko aur apke parivar ko.
I am from Ahmedabad.I am also a pujari of rafi saab.Through this beautiful site I have been able to make freinds with nice people like Mr,Narayanan, Mr,Sabnavees etc.
Pl write to me.I will be very happy to have u in my contacts.See how rafi saab unifies everybody who likes him.
Khaja Aliuddin Saaheb : Salaam & thanks from the heart.
Rafi saaheb waise bhi ek hi jagah jaate, heaven mein is liye ke unhon ne bahut punya kiya hai.
in other words, the gods had sent him to serve mankind and was called back may be at the right time for some and the wrong time for others.
anyway – mohd rafi the legend went away with his head held high.
binu nair
Dear Usha ji,
Once again Great write-up! You studied very well the two brilliant songs of Rafi Sahab. The second one, i.e. “Main ne pee sharab” is one of my favourites of this genre and it always haunt me. Rafi Sahab is at total command while singing this song and nobody in whole sub-continent (in whole world also, I think) can sing this song like Rafi Sahab sung. The snigger by Rafi Sahab while singing “hum kahen to jhoot” is too beautiful and natural. You have correctly picked up the same and mentioned in the article.
Many thanks and best regards.
Anwar-ul-Haque
anwarhq25@yahoo.com
Thanks and Adaab Dr Khaja saab for the timely information…
No wonder Gods wanted Rafi saab with them
Narayan
good work, keep it up
Addendum to my previous post, I would like to add that our legend died during this holy month of Ramadan. There is a belief amongst muslims that any one who dies during this holy month of Ramadan reaches heaven.
Long live Rafi Sahab,
Dr. Khaja Aliuddin
Janab Binu Nair Saheb,
Bahut bahut shukriya Ramadan mubarak ka. It is really nice of you. Our legend has so many numbers on Ramazan and Roza. I will take this opportunity also and say Ramadan Mubarak to all Rafi lovers. Please keep me and my family in your prayers.
with regards,
Dr. Khaja Aliuddin
die-hard fan of Rafi sahab
Refer post #12-Girishji
I agree with your coments on generalisations-as they say all generalisations including this one are always bad. We see this more in today’s world than may be during Sahir’s times.
But I think in the song Ponch kar ashq, same Sahir has given another view-”rang aur nasl, jaat aur mazhab, jo bhi ho aadmi se kam tar hai”.
Sadly today human values are slowly fading away. That is why we feel so attached to Rafi sahab who was first an excellent human being apart from being an excellent singer
RAMADHAN KAREEM AND best wishes to lovers of Music-Melody-&-Mohd Rafi Saaheb.
May the “evergreen” cherubic rafi smile remain on every face.
binu nair, rafi foundation, mumbai
Post 11… indeed yes…. guru ji…..
Yes i had seen the movie for Rafi songs in 70 during the first week of its release. naya raasta the movie ran for some 15 weeks in mumbai. the songs are in u-tube.
thanks, binu nair
usha ji,
very very nice article indeed. your explanation at the ‘ punch ‘ is highly appreciated. yes rafi sahab gives a peculiar drag at the exact point of the note. a listener will never believe that rafi sahab was a teetotaller after listening to these drunkard renditions.
i remember another rendition ‘ jangal mein mor nacha kisinena dekha from madhumati, when rafi sahab sings hamjo ‘ thodisi ‘ peeke zara ‘ jhoomein’ i question can anybody sing like that ? ? ?
regarding the aspect of ‘ versatility ‘ i recall the song dekha hai teri aankhon mein from the film pyar hi pyar. the particular rendition ‘ pyar hi pyar beshumaar ‘ comes 9 times. at each rendition rafi sahab gave a different ‘ punch ‘
rafi sahab is the symbol of ‘ versatility’ ‘ modulation ‘ melody ‘ & aboveall ‘ crystal clear clarity where the listener can hear each letter of the lyric sitting comfirtably without pulling his ears towards the speakers.
Usha Ji,
Great write Up,
Indeed one can listen to the song “Poonch Kar Ashk” any number of times it has the same appeal. Perhaps I will try to see the film to feel more inside of the song.
Usha Rao ji
a wonderful article as usual from your pen (or shall we say – the keyboard ). “ponch kar ashq “is one of my all time favourite Rafi – Sahir numbers. The following lines have a story to tell on their own -
zindagi bheekh me nahin milti
zindagi badke cheeni jaathi hai (2)
apna haq sangdil zamane se cheen pao
to koi baat baane
I must admit that I have not heard “maine pee sharab” very often, but on seeing the song on the youtube link, one can only marvel at the grasping powers of rafisaab. Every nuance of a drunkard’s behaviour and body language gets reflected in his voice and makes one feel that Balraj Sahni himself is singing the song.
at the cost of stirring a a hornet’s nest, i must confess that Sahir’s lyrics always made the mistake of distinguishing good & the bad based on the economical & social strata of a person. For him, a wealthy person was always a heartless & cruel person whose sole aim in life was to ” suck the blood” of the poor man, while the poor man in turn, was always the proverbial goody goody, god-fearing man.
unfortunately, it is this kind of generalization we see in the society today, that has further divided the already divided society. If all terrorists are muslims, then all hindus are communal, if people supporting one political party are secular then people supporting the other political party are communal. The list is endless and until people recognize that – the good & the bad does not have any class, creed, religion and caste, the list is likely to grow.
Binuji,
‘Naya Raasta’ was released in 1970.
Kudos Ushaji!!!
That was a brilliant writeup about Rafi Sab’s renditions!
I could see not only you wrote about emotions that these songs emote but you also showed how moved you are by these songs!!
Unless you have dwelt on these songs for a long time, such a wonderful presentation would not have been this soul touching one!
Many thanks for reminding and making us grasp the essence of the songs!
I agree with Nagesh, above, please keep writing and we are here to enjoy!
With nicest regards,
Priya.
Usha jee..I am sure Nasreen jee was as thrilled to read this writeup about her dear Abba jaan (when you presented it to her), if not more, as much as we at BBR are proud to have you as a member..
Your choice of songs is very different and special because you have selected two moderately popular songs (to the lay person) and the contrast between the two songs that you have chosen to expand into a narrative. is classically significant of Sahir’s poetry..
Let me conclude by saying that we have learnt so much about music and have yet a lot to learn from veterans of yours and Gurujee’s calibre..
Respectfully,
Bina
Siva, here is the link that you were looking for…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP3nIHdGZkc&feature=related
Ushaji,
Adaab Rafi !
Congrats for a lovely artilcle and reviving our childhood memories of 2 great solos from unsung Music Director N. Dataa sir who was very melodious in his scores…
Maine pi sharab… I can say is the best sharabi song sung by any bollywood singer and our maestro is in full form.. This used to be played regularly in Vividh-Bharati and always loved it…
Ponch kar asq.. became a hit and was featured in Binaca Geeth mala…
Narayan
Delited to read such article and readers can hear this song on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLfF11W6an Y. Music Director of this song is Naik Datta (N.Datta).
Usha ji / Nagesh ji
I tried to get the song Maine pi sharab from the Net but couldn’t find it in any of the popular sites. Can you please help me in getting this? I would be thankful to you.
Sivanandam
Hello Ushaji,
During the worldspace radio program (I had the honor of doing it
jointly with you) , on Rafi sab’s birth anniversary last year, I heard you speaking about the unsung composers producing music for unsung
heroes. A niche topic only a connoisseur like you can bring about.
Today i just witnessed on mohdrafi.com a hitherto unsung exponent
of retro music giving us delightful insights into two of rafi sab’s succulent numbers. One full of cheerful spirit and the other, made of spirit.
Often wondered what makes Rafi sab this versatile? Just thought I had
some answer from a fellow bhakt NRPbhai, that it is the flexibility of his
thought process, staying result oriented and delivering it with six sigma precision. Who says these are just corporate jargons ??
Ushaji, aap likhte rahiye aur hum aazmaate rahenge. Fantastic write up.
Thanks for ‘usher’ing a new chapter in mohdrafi.com.
warmly,
Nagesh Sidhanti
Ushaji,
Very nice article on these two songs sung by the master from the film “Naya Raasta” which had Jeetendra, Asha Parekh and late Balraj Sahni. The film was not hit, but the songs were and are still popular. Actually, there are 5 songs sung by Rafi Saheb in this film. And the songs are: “Maine pee sharaab tumne kya piya…”, “Ponchh kar ashq apni aankhon se…”, “Eeshwar Allah tere naam…”, “Chunar mori kori…” (with Asha Bhosle) and “Apne andar zara jhaankh mere watan…”. Please keep it up and looking forward for more articles from you.
melodiousrafi@gmail.com
melodiousrafi@yahoo.com
Two great Songs but I doubt whether it was a 1967 film….. i wait for a correction or a confirmation.
music is indeed from n. datta, lyrics from sahir and the movie from the nadiadwala household – great mohd rafi lovers.
binu nair : mumbai….
Excellent article-simply superb. Thanks a lot for refreshing my memory on the song Maine Pi sharab–it has been ages since I heard this song. It is really an out of the world song. I had listened to Poch kar ashq many times but somehow the other song is very rarely heard. No one can put so much of emotion like Rafi sahab. One can keep wondering for ages how a teetotaller like him can sing perfectly like a sharabi!!
Once again-great song great article Usha ji. Thanks a million. My immediate action now is to get this song from the net.
Ushaji,
I fully agree with your contention of the versatility of these two songs from the same film. In fact during one of the reviews of the movie, the reviewer had pointed out that Balrja Sahni singing “Maine Pee Sharab” reminded one of Guru Dutt’s ‘Pyaasa’ songs.
Incidentally the movie also had one more Rafi solo, a Bhajan “Eashwar Allah Tero Naam, Sabko Sanmti De Bhagawan”, which incidentally was not included in the movie.