True Voice - Mohd Rafi
The following article was brought to my notice when Sharad posted it on MAS. The article has been trimmed down a bit keeping afloat Rafi details. However, anyone interested can go visit the source at http://tfmpage.com/forum/4980.6302.04.57.19.html
I am Swaminatha Iyer and I am 78 years old. I hail from Tiruchi and I am a part of music associations in Tiruchi, M’as as well as in West Bengal and Maharashtra.
I think it is wrong to condemn music or artists on either side of Vindhyas. Our Indian music is one of the few which has not been cleaned off by the western music though there has always been a influence. It speaks a lot of the richness of our music. Sometime back director of MTV had said that MTV westernized the music wherever it went but in India , MTV had to be Indianized for it to be accepted. A lot of this credit goes to the Indian film music.
I have been fortunate to have close personal association with Rafi, Sirkali, TMS, Dr. BMK, Kishore, SPB & KJY, PS, Mannadey and the one and only Lata Mangeshkar.
Comparisons are bound to come, but almost every artist or I have met considers Lata to be beyond comparison. Her talents are beyond anyone’s reach. Even Sirkazi used to talk of her singing like a die-hard fan as do countless others.
Now coming to the Rafi-SPB discussion. It might be difficult to convince an South Indian to believe Rafi is the better and at the same time Rafi crowd will never believe any other male singer comes anywhere nearer. There is one more mobile crowd, which is well conversant with Hindi and some south Indian language. Majority of them tilt to either Rafi or Kishore.
During one of my stays in M’as I had stayed with SPB. While talking of true voices he said, I don’t feel like half a singer when listening to Rafi. True voice is not a tech term but many in circle use it. Perfect example would be lata, but to understand consider our own PS who within her range is superb. People who do not have such true voices can never do justice to original. They generally underplay many parts of the song or fake it with bass/superficial singing. True voices make people like Sirkazi, Nusrat Fateh Ali khan, Lata… Inimitable. However since Sirkazi and Nusrat did not have the filmy voices their “real” following is limited to their local arena.
In addition to the true voice if the singer has a very good voice then in “most” cases he/she can better songs of others. It is this combination which makes Rafi stand out among the other male singers. There are many here who seem to have mistaken notions on a good bass and also on high pitch.
Bryan Adams does not require a monster bass in “Summer of 69″ to sound real manly. It is the punch which gives that feel and that is decided only by the comfort level in most ranges (that is by what your throat can support). This you CAN never disguise with bass. Since people have talked about lack of manly voice viz. a viz. Rafi it was necessary to bring this point out. I have had the fortune of listening to most singers in studio and some times without a mike, practicing with MD’s.When Lata or Rafi do, the level is so high that people hesitate to even hum. It felt silly to sing in their presence (and it feels silly when someone says his voice isn’t manly).
In RD’s tribute when SPB sang “Aaja Aaja mein hoon” or “Chaand mera dil” it sounded only sweet and lacked punch if you compare with Rafi’s original.
Yesu once told me God has been partial to Rafi. He said “god gift term anavasyamaa romba common aa ippo use aardu”.. but idu Rafi kee thaan 100% porundu”. This person could sing “as intricately as a lady without sounding thin”, “cover any mood”, “versatility odey perfect example Rafi”. Yesu said most important is the comfort level over ranges which makes you feel God has been partial to Rafi. (But Of course in Rafi’s early career (1950’s) the voice was relatively feeble).
To people exposed to Rafi’s talent, these or any amount of praise can only seem less. I just wish he was alive and you people could get a live chance to hear him. Probably you can get hold of the DD album for the Geet Gaata Chal series where the first four episodes were dedicated to Rafi. Rafi is on camera singing “O Duniya Ke Rakwaaley” and many other songs. If you see and hear the last part you will realize why SPB said “impossible”. I think particularly those people who have talked about scales w.r.t Rafi should see this album. Its a known fact in industry that Rafi ruled high pitch and there is no male singer better in switching notes so easily. There are artists who can go beyond but then they sound strained or they don’t have pleasant voices when they venture into those territories.
Many singers of today are his compulsive followers. But they end up inheriting only part of his quality. Md. Aziz ended up with a sad voice. Mahendra Kapoor with a thick nasal voice. Anwar with a nasal voice. Sonu Nigam with a feminine voice. Rafi neither had a soft voice nor a heavy (bass) voice he had a good voice. Importantly did not strain at high notes, and voice if at all only became better at higher notes. If you see him singing it will remind you of Janaki. However diff the song is or the note is he will be smiling and singing. It is unthinkable that he cannot sing something.
There seems to be lot of talk about “Shankara Bharanamo” song. SPB has sung many a great numbers and things being said about this song in this forum are rather amusing, particularly b’cos 3 out of 4 people who can be called as singers will be able sing it and at least one out of 10 will sing it with the same effect. There are lot of other songs of SPB where this great singer has played with songs in total control. You will find most south Indian singers who have had a good exposure say that it is beneficial to learn Hindustani as it gives better breath control and improves expression.
Rafi was not only able to glide over a song, the important thing was that he could express each word/sound when singing. It is one thing to hold your breath, start and reach a crescendo (high note), as like in “Shankara”, “Anbey (Yennai kaan villaye)” it is different ballgame if you have to do it from low notes or suddenly switch notes. With practice the former can be done, latter requires a special gift. Rafi had a natural ability to do the latter. In “Tum joh mil gaye ho” there is such a transition in the “karwaan mil gaya” part. I have never seen anyone do justice to most of his songs in my life time. In “parda hai parda” quawaali the similar part is “kar doon to, Akbar mera naam”. In fact most of his songs will have these specialty as it was his natural ability to sing freely in a wide range at the same time giving that extra expression.
Whereas SPB takes us to heavens with “Idu oru pon maali”,”Ilaya nila” “bisiladarenu”(kannada), when he sings Rafi’s song it lacks the punch or expression, though it has the bass. But at least most agree that SPB does some justice to original, whereas most others murder the original.
One trivial point I would like to add is that singing in Hindi is harder. There are more “JHA”,”CHA”,”HA”,”THA”, “KHA”,”JA”,”FA”. These take away the breath faster. The more expressive you are the more air you are using up. Just singing from Nabhi will not help, your throat also needs to do a lot, for singing in Hindi, Bengali etc. SPB makes you fall in love with his south Indian songs but same cannot be said about his Hindi songs. If you just glide through words having these sounds, you will never be expressive. Doing this as well as reaching high notes is not easy. Rafi had this gift and that’s why it is difficult to imagine anyone else in his shoes. Song “Chalkaaye jaam” has so much expression that it is unthinkable how anyone can sing it. When Rafi switches to a high note with “Mitwaa” in the song “Chaahunga mein tughey” you cannot replicate it with bass. Most others will sound as if they are shouting in such cases. That man’s throat had the ability to freely sing at such levels.
Versatility is not just the ability to sing in various styles, more important is how good you are singing in those styles. You have lot of Ghazal singers today but when Rafi sings a Ghazal you will sit up and take notice. You don’t have to be part of the Ghazal listeners crowd. This is one important aspect. Whatever style you sing you should be able to pull the common man to listen and not just a particular crowd. Pick “parda hai parda” or any qawalli and it will stand tall among other qawalli’s.
Variety is amazing :
songs of Guru Dutt’s Khagaz key phool or songs like abhi naa jao chod key, Aaja teri yaad aayi, Aaj kal mein dhal gaya, Aaj kal terey merey pyaar, Aasmaan sey aaya farishta, Dil ney pyaar kiya hai, Deewana mujh saa nahi, Din dhal jaaye, Duniya paagal hai, Jaane walon jara, Dil joh na kaha saka, Dil key jharokon mein, Dil kaa bhavar, Chalkey teri aakkhon sey, Kar chaley hum fida, khilona jaan kar tum, Woh jab yaad aay, Woh hain jara khafa, Vaadian mera daaman, Pathar key sanam, Chaand mera dil, Main zindagi kaa saath, Mainey poocha chaand sey, sun sun jaalima, Koi jab raah na paay, hum to chaley pardes, badan pey sitaarey, laal chadi maidaan, Tum jo mil gaye, O meri shaahey, Sau baar janam lengey, Tum mujhey yoon bhula, Tumney mujhey dekha, Terey merey sapney, Tumny pukaara hum chaley aay
Name a situation/mood and Rafi’s song will be there on the top.
Swami
December 13th, 2007 at 11:14 pm
ref post 620
khan sahab,
thank you sir for your responce & appreciation.
sir, i know ‘ harmonium ‘ was superceded by ‘ accordion’ & accordion was superceded by ‘ key board’
but sir i would like to recall the song ‘ o leke pehela pehela pyar ‘ with interlude by harmonium, ‘ bol rey katputli dori’ with interlude by accordion & hai apna dil to awara with interlude by mouth organ. they all are the land marks still & will be till the end of time sir.
so long we the listeners are ‘ worshipping ‘ these instruments till then the music directors will be using these equipments.
once again thank you very much sir.
ramakrishna
hyderabad
09949509592
December 13th, 2007 at 8:14 pm
Thank you Haldar Sir once again. Actually I was just listening to that particular Telugu song and as you rightly remarked though it resembles the “Jhanak jhanak” song more and Ghantasalajee’s style resembles Mannada’s more, the target happens to be Rafi sahab and “duniya ke rakhwale”. “Gayaki” stands for actual singing or the style, right? Who do you think would be the closest one (to Rafi sahab, of course) in terms of style, voice, range, versetility and everything else?
I’m also waiting 4 ur gifts (ref. post 603) and ur comments on Mukeshjee’s voice/ style.
December 13th, 2007 at 7:37 pm
binu nair ji - post 619 pl. and anil cherian ji. post 622 pl.
I agree with both of your views that k j yesudas is also a legend in the south. k j yesudas opinion on ghantasala ji as stated by him in early days was only statement i.e. ghantasala, the only singer from the south who gave a turning point to the south indian music which is not possible for any singer.
December 13th, 2007 at 5:20 pm
To all fellow music lovers:
I have listened to Ghantasala jee a few times and felt that he’s a singer par excellence. While I beleive that he’s technically as good as anyone, I’m not too sure if he possessed the flexibility, versetality and that smooth-n-silky feel associated with Rafi sahab. Another factor to be taken into consideration is the opinion of two of the most accomplished South Indian light singers- KJY and SPB. These two respect Ghantasala jee immensly and acknowledge his amazing talents. But when it comes to Rafi sahab they just stop short of saying that he’s the almighty himself.
December 13th, 2007 at 11:16 am
ref post 590:
mr. cherian, I had earlier stated that manna dey is the closest to rafi saab in terms of gayaki. Please note that I am not comparing the two singers with respect to their voices, but with respect to their singing styles. Both were classically trained and had the greatest of rapport. But rafi saab’s voice quality was not only superior (my view), it also encompassed manna da’s range as well as talat saab’s soz (without which someone like madan mohan wouldn’t have made the switch). Having said that, I’d admit that I’ve never felt manna da’s classical songs or talat saab’s ghazals should have been sung by rafi saab because they were sung exceedingly well. Our old friend raju has written a recent piece in which he deliberately tries to mislead readers on what manna da has said; listen to the comments from the horse’s mouth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6wnwwOJJVw
In these comments, you’ll hear the heartfelt words of a man who would have probably been the no. 1 male singer were rafi saab not in the scene. And every other male singer, including kishore, mukesh, talat, yesudas and spb, felt the same way about the man who is the ultimate benchmark. And that is why you see so many bengalis, malayalis, telugus and tamils trying to compare their idols with the “aathwaan sur” of film music. Among the thousands of songs, they will try to find one song that could prove the superiority of their idol; that gives them immense pleasure. On this thread, comparison with another regional great has started; the darbari composition cited is actually quite close to an sj composition sung by manna dey in mere huzoor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3s7-s4gKbg
But do you see the irony? Yes, the target never changes!
December 12th, 2007 at 11:39 pm
Gani sahab, your post 616 please.
I have heard all 3 songs. I can say only one thing. What a stupendous melodious voice is of ghantasala sahab, While hearing i was only thinking this : Why I missed such singer all these years. Simply marvellous and incomparable.
this is my analysis for all the 3 songs.
The first song duet from mayabazar film is composed in the bhoop raga which corresponds to the mohan of carnatic. The composition is par excellence and ghantasala sahab singing the rag is even more par excellence and simply incomparable. A stupendous presentation and equal incomparable soft and melodious voice is the voice of ghantasala. The lady singer’s voice is also fine.
The second song of ghantasala sahab, which is similar to rafi sahab’s chal ud ja re panchi, is composed in yaman rag and is the famour kalyan rag of carnatic. Again ghantasala sahab dominates, i.e. his pitch is more high than rafi sahab’s song and the voice also more melodious. Ghantasala sahab voice is simply commendable in high pitches ( i again recall shiva shankari song). Rafi sahab has excelled in this song in his usual hindusthani style but on comparison of both songs, my analysis is ghantasala sahab dominates in this song.
The third song by ghantasala sahab and krishnaveni behan is the famous one from suvarna sundari film which is the kuhu kuhu bole koyaliya by rafi-lata pair in hindi. This is a mixture of numerous rags and the music composer deserves the appreciations and also ghantasala sahab for having rendered a par excellence beauty to the song (again i recall shiva shankari song). The depth of classical music and presentation by ghantasala sahab is simply supreme what I can say. Since this song was first sung in telugu, rafi sahab might have definitely heard this prior to his singing, but I don’t know why he could not dominate (whereas ghantasala sahab has dominated in chal ud ja re panchi after it was sung by rafi sahab). As usual, rafi sahab has sung in his beautiful and melodious voice in his hindusthani style but the depth in the rag and music, which is present in full form in ghantasala sahab’s voice is lacking in voice of rafi sahab. Ghantasala sahab’s voice (in the last para of the song - last 4 lines) is super melodious. Rafi sahab’s melody is equally attractive, but the difference lies in depth of melody and classical music where ghantasala sahab displays an edge. The main difference everybody (especially musicians) can note easily in this song is:
Ghantasala sahab is at complete ease and having full control over the rag and is without any discomfort in the entire song whereas I have noticed rafi sahab struggling and facing discomfort to some extent in some places (especially the rag in the beginning) and the last 4 lines. This may be due to the composition of the song in the carnatic style, whereas ghantasala sahab is master thereby enabling him to dominate. I personally feel that this song, since has shades of carnatic music, must have been rendered by ghantasala sahab (with little practice of hindi language) and lataji in hindi instead of rafi-lata wherein it would have become much famous.
Lata Mangeshkar is at her usual best in this song, and the telugu lady singer, though perfect in classical rendering of the song, falls back behind lata’s rendering.
Ramakrishna sahab, thank you very much for your comments. I would like to tell you one thing, you might be knowing the harmonium was a very famous instrument but which has lost its popularity today. Earlier days in many rafi sahab’s songs and also hindusthani music concerts, the harmonium was much famous, but due to passage of time, in nature, changes occur and we have to accept the changes which nature brings about. Anyhow, all the best ramakrishna sahab.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:30 pm
The keralites or malayalees are ‘not’ talking of their hero and
carnatic music legend shri k.j.yesudas in these lines. He is a popular
living legend.
please do not miss this point.
this is a legend mohd rafi website and please do ‘not’ compare
rafi saab with any other singer however tempting it will be.
It will be highly objectionable if someone barges in to anothers
house and start comparing his house to the another house and pass
comments.
Kindly invent or form another forum for your personal opinions and
pplll eee aaa ssss eee do not vent your sectarian feelings
in the legend mohd rafi forum.. is my sincere request…
with malice and prejudice towards none ……..
binu nair.. mumbai… the rafi foundation
December 12th, 2007 at 10:43 pm
Khan sahab, Greetings and namasthe pl.
I have been also regular contributor to this site and I feel honoured to introduce myself as a carnatic musician. I further feel honoured to communicate with an experienced hindusthani musician. I won’t waste your time sir, and my small request is kindly ready my post 460 regarding my experiences and analysis on ghantasala and rafi and request you to kindly give your views.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:40 pm
ref post 616
gani jee,
you are really superb with an excellent taste of music. in fact i feel very happy to share my feelings with such ‘ fine ‘ people like you gani ji.
another thing gani ji its the greatest quality of us the ‘ rafi sahab lovers’ that they praise the worthy & they never enter into any un necessary arguements.
please keep on mailing gani ji.
ramakrishna ( pujari of rafi sahab )
hyderabad
09949509592
December 11th, 2007 at 8:37 pm
Khan sahab, gani continues,
Sir, this is a famous duet song by ghantasala and p leela from telugu film mayabazar ( a mythological film which recorded 100 days in 27 theatres in 1957) and the music composer is ghantasala himself.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuSgSHKBySA
following is the song paya ninche o chiluka by ghantasala ; which is chal ud ja re panchi by rafi from film bhabhi in hindi.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=nra86TX__hc
This is the song from suvarna sundari by ghantasala and krishnaveni which is kuhu kuhu bole koyaliya by rafi-lata (you can hear the same from right side in this link)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuxnuuX_hZQ
You may please provide your views after you hear them.
December 11th, 2007 at 8:20 pm
ref post 611,
khan sahab,
thank you very much sir for your great analysis on music being a musician. khan sahab I am a lover of music and a worhishpper of both rafi sahab as well as ghantasaala garu. i tell you we telugu people use the word ‘ garu’ as a mark of respect. its similar to ‘ sahab ‘ in urdu.
i play mouth organ & have played a number of songs of rafi sahab and ghantasaala garu on mouth organ. its a great pleasure to play this beautiful instrument but its a matter of great regret that this instrument is loosing its popularity day by day.
sir there are a number of romantic songs of ghantasaala garu. if you wish i will send you the CD of this legend.
at the end i conclude by saying that ghantasaala garu is a singer par excellence but rafi sahab is a singer and human being par excellence.
ghantasaala garu had all great human qualities where as rafi sahab had all great saintly qualities.
khan sahab there lies the difference.
December 10th, 2007 at 9:56 pm
Khan sahab,
I feel honoured to receive appreciations from a great hindusthani musician. I welcome you here sir. Personalities like you should definitely participate in these type of sites so that we can learn a lot and brush up our knowledge here.
Regarding siva sankari song of ghantasala in post 608, as expected, a boosting response has been received much than expected and thank you very much sir. Sir, i can say with pride that, that is ghantasala. As commanded by you, we shall try to post great romantic and melodious songs of ghantasala in due course. After seeing your message, I got into touch with my friends and they have assured me of providing such songs. In fact, a thrilling news sir, one of my friends also promised me to provide a link to similar songs of rafi and ghantasala mainly chal ud ja re panchi by rafi and the same by ghantasala in telugu and also the suvarna sundari song as discussed my many times many readers here i.e. kuhu kuhu bole koyaliya by rafi-lata which was first sung by ghantasala and krishnaveni in telugu. Hope we all can enjoy the same in future. Kindly keep in touch and guide us regularly khan sahab.
December 9th, 2007 at 3:11 pm
Dear music fans,
I am an elderly person staying in mumbai for the past 40 years and I have been closely associated with many hindi actors, music directors and singers also. I want to share few of my memorable moments here. Rafi sahab was a calm going personality with full concentration on his work. An excellent personality indeed. Those days were quite excellent because we did not have much media coverage like these days. We used to wait for release of pictures without any news and when we used to view the film, we used to feel a divine pleasure by hearing those melodious songs and we used to hear them again and again. Sadly, these days such environment is lacking.
In the late 70’s and 80’s doordarshan used to broadcast one programme titled chitramala every monday night (if i correctly remember) where in all language songs used to be telecast one after another. We used to hear almost all languages of India at that time including oriya, bengali and almost all southern languages along with Hindi. Thus, our generation people had much knowledge about other language songs as compared to present generation. Those days, as discussed my many readers here, ghantasala from the south was a very top singer like rafi sahab in Hindi films. I could if correctly remember, I used to read frequently about this man from the south, who used to be addressed commonly as the Mohammed rafi of the south. People should not take this to be as superiority of rafi because every singer has his own talent. I had once met music director shankar (jai kishan was not there) who incidentally happened to record music for one telugu film in late 60’s with ghantasala and p suseela. Shankar told me at that time that like our mohd. rafi ji and lata ji, there is another similar pair in the south i.e. ghantasala and suseela whose voices are very beautiful and excel in their own fields similar to our rafi-lata pair. Shankar also recalled one recording with ghantasala saying that ghantasala had sung a high pitch song in his music direction only in one take and it was perfect and not only he but his entire orchestra were astonished. He further claimed that even rafi and lata take some rehearsal sessions but ghantasala took only one attempt to complete the song and that was perfect. I asked him why he did not introduce ghantasala to hindi songs for which he replied, much politics are mixed in bollywood. Shankar tried to introduce one singer sarada but lata mangeshkar foiled his attempt and even tried to spoil chances for the duo shankar jai-kishan. Shankar said we did not have much favourable circumstances, because lata was on top at that time.
Once I wanted to watch kishore kumar singing. But I was not allowed to watch him. I was told kishore kumar does not allow anybody to watch while singing and is a moody man. If he wishes he sings and if he wishes he leaves without singing. I was not allowed to watch his song. Kishore was a very peculiar man.
I was watching this site and the past discussions of many readers here, the comparisons with other singers etc. hence I also wanted to share my experiences. The main article posted by swaminathan iyer, if we properly read, the author specifies that he has met many singers, almost all from the south, but has carefully and intelligently avoided ghantasala. I don’t know why. Perhaps he was aware or might have thought that bringing ghantasala into picture would complicate or does he consider ghantasala superior to rafi is unclear. Anyhow I have shared some of my experiences here.
December 9th, 2007 at 7:28 am
Ref. post 608 please, Gani ji,
An extraordinary and amazing song. Never heard such song in my lifetime. Simply marvellous. I was spell bound and heard it twice. I feel this man ghantasala might have been famous in the south when he was ruling there, but due to regional factor and due to passage of time, his fame might have now been restricted to south india only. I think he might have been well known to bollywood and other people in the yesteryears when rafi sahab was ruling. Like now we know people like s p balasubramaniam, k j yesudas, shankar mahadevan etc. from the south.
December 8th, 2007 at 10:54 pm
Gani sahab, alekum salam,
Thank you very much for the link and song. I am a hindusthani musician with a small experience of only 35 plus years. I have seen many concerts of many hindusthani musicians and rafi sahab is one of my favourite hindusthani singer.
Ref. your post 608 , I have carefully heard the shiva shankari song here by ghantasala thrice and his voice range. I am not able to stop acknowledging the wonderful presentation by this south indian legend. With my experience, I can say that the song is based on the darbari kannad rag, and during my life time I have not heard anybody rendering the rag in such perfection as ghantasala sahab did. Not even rafi sahab could render in such perfection as ghantasala sahab did (for instance o duniya ke rakhwale from baiju bawra film in the rag). In this song, ghantasala has touched the top ni note in the top range (no bollywood song or rafi sahab song has been composed in that top range and it is very difficult to sing there) and in the same way the lowest dha note in the lower range with ease and comfort and shifting notes with complete clarity which is possible only for a singer (like ghantasala sahab) with complete command over a rag.
The speciality of the legend in this song is without sacrificing his carnatic style he has created a hindusthani sensation thus mixing the blend of both styles and which is possible only for a gifted and creative singer. I feel in my humble experience even the great rafi sahab has not reached that level in singing telugu songs because he sounds only hindusthani but could not sound the carnatic style. (I have heard rafi sahab’s telugu songs)
Mr. gani, the voice, highpitch, clarity and command over rag are in complete harmony and perfection by ghantasala and full 100 marks to him. I have never heard such song in my life and perhaps bollywood or rafi sahab has no such type of song to their credit. This point will be completely agreed by hindi fans of rafi sahab also after they hear this shiva shankari song by ghantasala in post 608 (live song please)
I request, binu nair ji and other hindi friends, to be secular and without prejudice kindly listen to the song in post 608 and I fully guarantee that you might not have heard such song in your lifetime. I being a musician, am forced to acknowledge this, despite being a great rafi fan, because as a musician I have to do justice to the correct musician. Pl. don’t mistake me, but in this particular song, I have to give credit to ghantasala sahab ( you too have to give after you hear him)
Gani sahab, the great rafi sahab is popular for singing romantic numbers also with perfection. Could you kindly provide some songs of now great ghantasala sahab (in my opinion) which has a romantic effect akin to rafi sahab. I hope he certainly has because ghantasala sahab talent i have seen in his shiva shankari number. My full congratulations also to the music composer of that song.
I think the actor there is n t rama rao and he has also done a superb action. Congratulations to him also.
Finally binu nair ji (your post pl. 609), I am an elderly man with 55 plus years. I feel that you will change your opinion of the word second as stated in your message after you hear shiva shankari song in post 608, my request is whatever your opinion may be, please hear once the song here (you wil hear again once you hear it specially the last 1 minute in the song) and post your views with open and pure conscience. I am also a great rafi fan and man with hindusthani knowledge pl. you may kindly note.
Other telugu writers specially ramakrishna and murthy sahab, I fully concur with your views and specially want to thank you for having introduced such great legend.
December 8th, 2007 at 4:01 pm
Thank you Haldar Sir; I had almost given up hope…. Waiting for more..as you promised..yeh dil abhi bhara nahin.
December 7th, 2007 at 10:51 pm
Rafi saab is a ‘world legend’ and every body else is second….
let’s never stop the arguments - for argument sake..
personal likes and dislikes can never be defeated.
Binu Nair…. the rafi foundation….
December 7th, 2007 at 8:24 pm
Khan sahab, asalam alekum,
I could find one link through my friends, pl. hear this song. This is the much famed song Siva Sankari by Ghantasala. hindi readers may please also hear the same.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX17lXOq7mU
December 7th, 2007 at 7:09 pm
can any telugu writer provide link to ghantasala songs so that we can also hear his great voice as stated by many people here.
December 7th, 2007 at 5:56 pm
Mr. Murthy,
SPB knows and feels that Rafi Saab is superior to Ghantasala. It is you who are taking some isolated comments of his and are twisting them out of proportion!
Incidentally, the MD for “Jo Wada Kiya Woh Nibhana Padega” is not Naushad as you think, but is Roshan. You need to brush up your knowledge of Hindi songs before making profound statements!
Venkatadri
December 7th, 2007 at 4:17 pm
ref post - 601
murty garu,
yes, i also saw the programme ‘jhummandi naadam’. spb has all regard & praise for sri ghantasaala mastaru garu.
sir, here i will recall one more programme which i saw some 3 years ago. it was t.v.s. saregama compered by sonu nigam where spb was the judge. when asked by sonu nigam regarding rafi sahab spb replied like this.
‘ i was a student of engineering at tirupathi & used to go to college by cycle. on the way there used to be small hotel where i used to hear the song ‘ sawan ki ghata chaayi, yeh dekh ke dil jhooma’ from kashmir ki kali. spb became emotional for a while & then exclaimed ‘ can anybody sing ‘ ma ‘ like that ? ‘ ma ‘ i mean that ‘ ma ‘ from the word ‘ jhooma ” ! ! !
sir , please look at the deep observation of spb . he has the highest regard for both rafi sahab & ghantasaala mastaru garu.
there fore please dont single out sri venkatadri garu. he has his own views. let us appreciate his emotions, feelings for the great rafi sahab.
and finally we know both are the ‘ irreplaceable’ legends one in north & one in south.
December 7th, 2007 at 2:57 pm
ref post- 601
murty garu,
i totally agree with you & deeply reciprocate your feelings for both ghantasaala mastaru garu & rafi sahab.
i will add a bit of my feelings for both the legends.
sir , in the ‘ world’ of playback singing when rafi sahab is the ‘ north pole’ then ‘ghantasaala mastaru garu is the ‘ south pole’ & we are all being put in between these two ‘ strong magnets’.
but unfortunately in the present situation we lost both these magnets & we are only continuing in the ‘ residual magnetism ‘.
i dont know how long this ‘ effect ‘ will continue. I pray GOD to give us back these two precious magnets so that we can again be magnetised.
December 6th, 2007 at 10:48 am
ref post 590:
Mr. Cherian, let me first address your comments on the sweetness vs. heaviness issue. To me, they are orthogonal axes, that is, they are independent of one another. Heaviness is an objective measure; it depends on wave frequencies. On the other hand, sweetness is much more subjective and your concept of sweetness may be different from mine. But in general, Hemant da’s voice is considered to be sweet, though it is quite possible that some may consider talat saab’s voice to be sweeter. Among the md’s, salil da produced what can be considered “sweet” music; another such md is hemant da. The rasgoollas they consumed had their effect. Burman da also produced sweet music, but being a paan eater, he knew how to add some zarda.
I’ll provide examples of songs, which most people would consider to be sweet, but the heaviness will go from light to heavy. I’d have loved to start with salil da’s “aansoo samajh ke kyun mujhe” composition for talat, but couldn’t find the song on youtube; but here is talat-lata in “itna na tujhse main pyar”:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uCBx2W3-fEM
I’m sure you’ll love the song given that you are into western classical music.
Now listen to Salil da’s “koi sone ke dilwala” from maya, sung by Rafi saab:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=COrjSLN399U&feature=related
Doesn’t rafi saab’s voice sound unusually sweet? No surprise, given that he always delivered what the md wanted and what suited the actor on screen. The voice is neither light nor heavy; later I’ll provide an example of another song that is equally sweet but sung in a much heavier voice.
And here’s your favourite singer singing Salil da’s “ni sa ga ma”:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=LGGcPUnIDks
Beautiful voice!
And finally it’s time to savour some rosogollas from kolkata. listen to Hemant da in “Tum pukar lo”, which he composed himself:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_yBoZElZLZE
If you prefer even sweeter rosogollas, taste the original Bengali version of “yeh nain dare dare”:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=FP_pVZxZw1c
Four sweet voices, but with varying heaviness. The interesting thing is that one of them could vary both sweetness and heaviness at will. Later, I’ll give an example where this singer changes the bass significantly within one song itself.
December 3rd, 2007 at 8:44 pm
i don’t know why u people compare mohd rafi with other singer.
Plz give one name in the world can say what said by great names for Mohd Rafi,Shammi kapoor was superstar of his time he said Shammi kapoor is boz of mohd rafi,name like Naushand,O P Nayar,Manny Dey,Ravi,Madan Mohan,LP and many more……….
December 2nd, 2007 at 9:11 am
Mr. Venkatadri ji, (your earlier posts pl.)
I request you to please recall your earlier comments by spb on ghantasala. I hope you have seen yesterday’s jhumandi naadam on etv at 8 pm, where the programme was specially dedicated to ghantasala, and one of the chief guests was spb. spb has said yesterday,- songs, music directors, producers, picture titles and people used to wait for ghantasala but not vice-versa. Even when ghantasala was not well, producers, music directors etc. used to wait for months to get that song recorded only by ghantasala. finally spb concluded na bhuto na bhavishyati meaning there has been no singer in the past like ghantasala nor in the future therewill be any one. What do you say Mr. venkatadri ? So my request to you is kindly do not try to rub your views in future simply quoting spb. I hope your doubts get cleared by yesterday’s spb statement. I also hope that in future while quoting spb you will remember the above statement by spb at all times.
Finally, mr. venkatadri ji, i would like to add one more statement, both rafi sahab and ghantasala garu have influenced millions of people and continue to influence till today and no other singer has got such credit.
I further share with my hindi and other language friends, that the same dictum applies equally to rafi sahab, i.e. bollywood did not have a singer like rafi in the past, and there might not be any one in future.
To quote the greatness of legends one small illustration:
The beautiful song from tajmahal i.e. jo wada kiya ho nibhana padega has become beautiful and attractive due to the voice of rafi sahab and not due to naushad’s music composition as i feel.
Similarly, as spb quoted once, the song manasuna manasai, brathukuna brathukai by ghantasala garu, in telugu film dr. chakravarthy, became famous and beautiful, only due to ghantasala garu rendering it. spb further added, the song cannot be better composed and better sung by anyone.
Such has been the influence of these legends and the influence continues.