True Voice - Mohd Rafi
The following article was brought to my notice when Sharad posted it on MAS. The article has been trimmed down a bit keeping afloat Rafi details. However, anyone interested can go visit the source at http://tfmpage.com/forum/4980.6302.04.57.19.html
I am Swaminatha Iyer and I am 78 years old. I hail from Tiruchi and I am a part of music associations in Tiruchi, M’as as well as in West Bengal and Maharashtra.
I think it is wrong to condemn music or artists on either side of Vindhyas. Our Indian music is one of the few which has not been cleaned off by the western music though there has always been a influence. It speaks a lot of the richness of our music. Sometime back director of MTV had said that MTV westernized the music wherever it went but in India , MTV had to be Indianized for it to be accepted. A lot of this credit goes to the Indian film music.
I have been fortunate to have close personal association with Rafi, Sirkali, TMS, Dr. BMK, Kishore, SPB & KJY, PS, Mannadey and the one and only Lata Mangeshkar.
Comparisons are bound to come, but almost every artist or I have met considers Lata to be beyond comparison. Her talents are beyond anyone’s reach. Even Sirkazi used to talk of her singing like a die-hard fan as do countless others.
Now coming to the Rafi-SPB discussion. It might be difficult to convince an South Indian to believe Rafi is the better and at the same time Rafi crowd will never believe any other male singer comes anywhere nearer. There is one more mobile crowd, which is well conversant with Hindi and some south Indian language. Majority of them tilt to either Rafi or Kishore.
During one of my stays in M’as I had stayed with SPB. While talking of true voices he said, I don’t feel like half a singer when listening to Rafi. True voice is not a tech term but many in circle use it. Perfect example would be lata, but to understand consider our own PS who within her range is superb. People who do not have such true voices can never do justice to original. They generally underplay many parts of the song or fake it with bass/superficial singing. True voices make people like Sirkazi, Nusrat Fateh Ali khan, Lata… Inimitable. However since Sirkazi and Nusrat did not have the filmy voices their “real” following is limited to their local arena.
In addition to the true voice if the singer has a very good voice then in “most” cases he/she can better songs of others. It is this combination which makes Rafi stand out among the other male singers. There are many here who seem to have mistaken notions on a good bass and also on high pitch.
Bryan Adams does not require a monster bass in “Summer of 69″ to sound real manly. It is the punch which gives that feel and that is decided only by the comfort level in most ranges (that is by what your throat can support). This you CAN never disguise with bass. Since people have talked about lack of manly voice viz. a viz. Rafi it was necessary to bring this point out. I have had the fortune of listening to most singers in studio and some times without a mike, practicing with MD’s.When Lata or Rafi do, the level is so high that people hesitate to even hum. It felt silly to sing in their presence (and it feels silly when someone says his voice isn’t manly).
In RD’s tribute when SPB sang “Aaja Aaja mein hoon” or “Chaand mera dil” it sounded only sweet and lacked punch if you compare with Rafi’s original.
Yesu once told me God has been partial to Rafi. He said “god gift term anavasyamaa romba common aa ippo use aardu”.. but idu Rafi kee thaan 100% porundu”. This person could sing “as intricately as a lady without sounding thin”, “cover any mood”, “versatility odey perfect example Rafi”. Yesu said most important is the comfort level over ranges which makes you feel God has been partial to Rafi. (But Of course in Rafi’s early career (1950’s) the voice was relatively feeble).
To people exposed to Rafi’s talent, these or any amount of praise can only seem less. I just wish he was alive and you people could get a live chance to hear him. Probably you can get hold of the DD album for the Geet Gaata Chal series where the first four episodes were dedicated to Rafi. Rafi is on camera singing “O Duniya Ke Rakwaaley” and many other songs. If you see and hear the last part you will realize why SPB said “impossible”. I think particularly those people who have talked about scales w.r.t Rafi should see this album. Its a known fact in industry that Rafi ruled high pitch and there is no male singer better in switching notes so easily. There are artists who can go beyond but then they sound strained or they don’t have pleasant voices when they venture into those territories.
Many singers of today are his compulsive followers. But they end up inheriting only part of his quality. Md. Aziz ended up with a sad voice. Mahendra Kapoor with a thick nasal voice. Anwar with a nasal voice. Sonu Nigam with a feminine voice. Rafi neither had a soft voice nor a heavy (bass) voice he had a good voice. Importantly did not strain at high notes, and voice if at all only became better at higher notes. If you see him singing it will remind you of Janaki. However diff the song is or the note is he will be smiling and singing. It is unthinkable that he cannot sing something.
There seems to be lot of talk about “Shankara Bharanamo” song. SPB has sung many a great numbers and things being said about this song in this forum are rather amusing, particularly b’cos 3 out of 4 people who can be called as singers will be able sing it and at least one out of 10 will sing it with the same effect. There are lot of other songs of SPB where this great singer has played with songs in total control. You will find most south Indian singers who have had a good exposure say that it is beneficial to learn Hindustani as it gives better breath control and improves expression.
Rafi was not only able to glide over a song, the important thing was that he could express each word/sound when singing. It is one thing to hold your breath, start and reach a crescendo (high note), as like in “Shankara”, “Anbey (Yennai kaan villaye)” it is different ballgame if you have to do it from low notes or suddenly switch notes. With practice the former can be done, latter requires a special gift. Rafi had a natural ability to do the latter. In “Tum joh mil gaye ho” there is such a transition in the “karwaan mil gaya” part. I have never seen anyone do justice to most of his songs in my life time. In “parda hai parda” quawaali the similar part is “kar doon to, Akbar mera naam”. In fact most of his songs will have these specialty as it was his natural ability to sing freely in a wide range at the same time giving that extra expression.
Whereas SPB takes us to heavens with “Idu oru pon maali”,”Ilaya nila” “bisiladarenu”(kannada), when he sings Rafi’s song it lacks the punch or expression, though it has the bass. But at least most agree that SPB does some justice to original, whereas most others murder the original.
One trivial point I would like to add is that singing in Hindi is harder. There are more “JHA”,”CHA”,”HA”,”THA”, “KHA”,”JA”,”FA”. These take away the breath faster. The more expressive you are the more air you are using up. Just singing from Nabhi will not help, your throat also needs to do a lot, for singing in Hindi, Bengali etc. SPB makes you fall in love with his south Indian songs but same cannot be said about his Hindi songs. If you just glide through words having these sounds, you will never be expressive. Doing this as well as reaching high notes is not easy. Rafi had this gift and that’s why it is difficult to imagine anyone else in his shoes. Song “Chalkaaye jaam” has so much expression that it is unthinkable how anyone can sing it. When Rafi switches to a high note with “Mitwaa” in the song “Chaahunga mein tughey” you cannot replicate it with bass. Most others will sound as if they are shouting in such cases. That man’s throat had the ability to freely sing at such levels.
Versatility is not just the ability to sing in various styles, more important is how good you are singing in those styles. You have lot of Ghazal singers today but when Rafi sings a Ghazal you will sit up and take notice. You don’t have to be part of the Ghazal listeners crowd. This is one important aspect. Whatever style you sing you should be able to pull the common man to listen and not just a particular crowd. Pick “parda hai parda” or any qawalli and it will stand tall among other qawalli’s.
Variety is amazing :
songs of Guru Dutt’s Khagaz key phool or songs like abhi naa jao chod key, Aaja teri yaad aayi, Aaj kal mein dhal gaya, Aaj kal terey merey pyaar, Aasmaan sey aaya farishta, Dil ney pyaar kiya hai, Deewana mujh saa nahi, Din dhal jaaye, Duniya paagal hai, Jaane walon jara, Dil joh na kaha saka, Dil key jharokon mein, Dil kaa bhavar, Chalkey teri aakkhon sey, Kar chaley hum fida, khilona jaan kar tum, Woh jab yaad aay, Woh hain jara khafa, Vaadian mera daaman, Pathar key sanam, Chaand mera dil, Main zindagi kaa saath, Mainey poocha chaand sey, sun sun jaalima, Koi jab raah na paay, hum to chaley pardes, badan pey sitaarey, laal chadi maidaan, Tum jo mil gaye, O meri shaahey, Sau baar janam lengey, Tum mujhey yoon bhula, Tumney mujhey dekha, Terey merey sapney, Tumny pukaara hum chaley aay
Name a situation/mood and Rafi’s song will be there on the top.
Swami
December 16th, 2002 at 4:46 am
A Rafi fan is always more than pleased to learn that Rafi is still regarded as the benchmark and is one and only one singer in the Indian Subcontinent whom others big ,medium or small are generally compared to. I have seen people debating over Rafi versus Mukesh, Rafi versus Talat, Rafi versus Manna and in last 30 years Rafi versus Kishore and now it is pleasure to see debates on Rafi versus SPB or Rafi versus Yesudas. And a common thread is that all of the artists themselves consider/considered Rafi as a benchmark.
Long live Rafi
Naveen
April 9th, 2006 at 4:49 pm
Great article. I am just sad I dont know how to reply properly, though, since I want to show my appreciation like many other.
April 17th, 2006 at 12:39 am
The above article is very pleasing and does justice to the all-time great Rafi Sahaab. But… i dont agree with the comment that in the 50’s Rafi’s voice was feeble… In fact it was rich. Please dont mind my lack of expression; but i have been hearing all his songs and living thru those decades. Yes.. the Tera Khilona toota Balak.. does not appear’s to be of Rafi. But then immediately, in Dillagi, and other movies of 50, Rafi is at his best.. Among the movies of 50’s, take the songs of Baiju Bawra, Deedar, Udan Khotala, Aan, Kaala Paani, Kala Bazaar, Tumsa Nahin Dekha, Jagruti, ChandraKanta, Madhumati and many other less known movies.. Are not those songs unforgetabble.
The sixties appear to be his zenith. Songs of Dosti, Mere Mehboob, Guide, Jab Jab Phool Khile, Kohinoor, Professor, Jab Pyar Kisise Hota Hai, Kaajal, Dhool Ka Phool, Sasural, Sangam, Ram Aur Shyam, and all the movies starring shammi kapoor and Rajendra Kumar. Who can forget those songs, their lilting quality, their vibrancy, their amazing energy, range, etc.
But what i like best personally in Rafi Sahab’s songs is his rendering of the words - which I find in no other singer. It is this rendering which makes the songs come alive. (e.g. Taaareef Karoon Kya Uski; Hai duniya Usiki….etc.)There is lots more to say. But gotta sign off.
My lots of Dua for his Soul and prayers for paradise.
April 22nd, 2006 at 3:02 pm
hI,
There is no doubt that Rafi was among the greatest singer india has produced. But personally i feel Kishore is far ahead of him as playback. People take Kishore very lightly because of his jolly image but they don’t know abt real Kishore.
I always compare singer with their duet with each other not with their solo songs. If solo is benchmark then everybosy has done a good job. For e.g. 1. Tum bin Jaou kaha 2. Ek mahal ma chhamchham karti 3. Jum premi prem karna.
All above songs sung by Kishore and Rafi but Kishore was far ahead of Rafi. I know It hard to believe for Rafi. I believe both are great but if somebody says Rafi is great then i remind them.
April 29th, 2006 at 4:17 am
dear ashwani,
u said exactly what I thought. technically, bcos of training, rafi might be superior to kishore but, i’ve been a kishore fan and discussed this with a lot of kishore fans, the primary reason people are fans of kishore kumar is not for his technical ability but his unmatched ability to convey emotions.
rafi might be better at the language of hindi/udru, might be more classically trained, and therefore would know better which words to stress on etc. but, inspite of lacking all this, kishore kumar conveys the emotions better than rafi, simply through his magical voice.
when they both sang the same songs, kishore kumar’s version became more popular not because he sang them better but because his ability to touch the heart of the listener is probably better than anyone else. nobody can convey emotions like kishore kumar, especially on sad songs. songs like “woh shaam kuch ajeeb thi”, “kuch tho log kahenge”, “teri duniya se hoke majboor chala, mein bahut door …”, “badi sooni sooni hai”, “zindagi ke safar mein guzar jaate hain”, “ghunghroo ki tarah bajta hi raha hoon main” and the list goes on, have that magical effect that his voice brings. it’s very soothing.
when kishore kumar sings these songs, he brings the feeling so effortlessly thru his voice that people don’t care how correct his pronounciation is, or whether he’s letting the breath out correctly etc.
at the other extreme, nobody can sing fun songs like him “eena meena deeka”, “khaike paan banaraswala”, “mein hoon jhumroo”, “zindagi ek safar” etc.
kishore kumar is inimitable, like rafi. IMO, a singer cannot be called great just bcos he’s technically superior. what ultimately matters is how much feeling the singer can bring out. and kishore kumar is unmatched in this aspect.
sorry if i’ve hurt anyone’s feelings but that’s just my opinion. i can respect the opposite opinion too. to each, his own.
April 30th, 2006 at 1:21 am
Hi Shankar,
Very true.
I am saying sorry to all Rafi fans if i hurt them unwittingly. But i thought to convey my feeling on Kishore and Rafi. I always feel that there should not be any comparison between Kishore and Rafi.
Dear shankar, Kishore is equally good in HIndi and Urdu because he born and brought in Khandawa (M.P. - Hindi speaking state)
couple of Urgu and complicated hindi songs..
1. Sarkati jaaye hai rukh se naqab (Deedar-e-yaar)
2. Mere mehboob ka baakpan alah alah (same movie) ..
3. All songs from Anurodh ..pure HIndi songs
Above 2 songs are 100% Urdu, written by Mazrooh who likes Kishore very much.
Thanks,
Ashwani
May 8th, 2006 at 7:36 am
The biggest proof of Rafi’s genius is to hear what Manna Dey has to say about Rafi, and Manna has seen all the Toms, Kishore Kumars and Harrys himself. Manna has said that Rafi is so much better than anyone else that he held positions 1 to 10 in terms of greatness in the field of playback singing!!!! In fact, I met Manna at one of his concerts, and he told me backstage that people in the music circles didn’t even count KK as a singer, and it’s just a sign of degradation of Indian music that a person like KK has become popular. He also jokingly said that he couldn’t say that in media since he was a Bengali himself, and people in Kolkata won’t be able to digest the truth!!
May 8th, 2006 at 7:48 am
Ashwani & Shankar… it will be more appropriate if you can talk about your KK in the KK forum because we don’t need his presence here especially in front of a million times more talented, gifted, and accomplished like Rafi. I have heard thousands of Kishore songs when I was younger and didn’t understand the depth of music, but dropped them like a bad habit once I started learning music and singing. I realized how extremely childish and flat his songs are, and how ugly & unfit-for-singing his voice was. He even sounds outright cheap in many of his songs. Plus, the guy couldn’t even sing the real songs.. he wasn’t even versatile at all — there are so many genres and so many octave ranges that the guy couldn’t even fathom venturing into. And I have come to conclusion after having heard at least four thousand of his songs!!! Oh….I wish I hadn’t wasted my time listening to him
))
KK’s songs became popular in the 70’s because of the Rajesh Khanna & RDB influence. It was just a sign of changing times, and KK got lucky with the great tunes that RDB lifted from the western compositions. You should be aware of the politics of Bollywood. If in case you think(and I don’t) that KK’s version of Tum Bin is better, you should also know that RDB made Rafi sing that song first and gave KK the tape for a week to better it without Rafi knowing about it. Just imagine the unfairness of it all!! Just imagine if Rafi had been given such advantage, he would have simply slaughtered a non-singer like KK. But it doesn’t matter because Rafi is vastly superior in all aspects of singing anyways. Plus, RDB gave KK only those simple tunes which he thought KK could handle.
And I don’t count yodelling as part of singing, as it sounds very childish many a times. Besides, even a nobody like Johnny Lever can yodel as well as KK and Johnny is not even a singer, so that confirms the point that yodelling is no big deal, and KK fans need to get over that rather childish gimmick.
))
May 13th, 2006 at 11:57 pm
dear Ravi & Manoj,
I have full sympathy with you guys, i can understand ur feelings, Its very difficult for u people to digest KK.
Ravi, I think you have just heard what Manna Dey said abt Rafi, and u manage to ignore what he said abt KK, “HE IS UNCOMPARABLE”.
Rafi’s fan should admit that KK is/was better than Rafi. He is “Singer of Millenium”.
Just hear Kishore sang rafi song to pay honest tribute, “MAN RE TU KAHE NA DHEER DHARE”. I request all Rafi fan to listen this, i m sure ur heart wil start accepting Kishore.
Manoj, I am sorry to know abt ur knowledge in Hndi Music, who doesn’t know the difference between Johny Lever/Rafi/Kishore. U people are saying RDB prefer Kishore, of course why not because he was delevering more than what RDB expectated. If you people know abt music and Rafi, you must not forget Rafi got national award for RDB song “Kya hua tera vaada”, He sang melidious “Chura Liya hai tumne” composed by RDB.
RD simple tunes for KISHORE as per Manoj
1. Mere Naina Saawan bhado (MEHBOOBA)
2. O Maanjhi Re (KINARA)
3. NA KOI DIL me samaya (AA gale lag ja)
(Rafi can’t even think to murmuring this song)
4. EK Chatur Naar (PADOSAN)
(It looks simple but it is not, u can ask any singer to sing Kishore part)
And so on…… (Manoj, all tunes are very complicated and if you say CHURA LIYE and KYA hua Tera vaada is complex theni m sorry)
And indirectly Manoj is accepting that Kishore sings better than Rafi after hearing tape, Why not rafi sings better than Lata “Wadiya Mera Daaman” composed by RDB after hearing the tape. Why not today’s singer sing better then Rafi n Kishore after hearing their songs for last 20-30yrs. It means Kishore had more grasping power than anybody else.
KK was not trained but he had capabilities to overshadow many people just think what would have happend if he had learnt music as Rafi did.
U can’t just blame RDB, kalyanji-Anandji, LP, Rajesh Roshan for KK fame. Dear friend, i m not saying u people start admiring KK, u people can’t do that but atleast u should never say Rafi was better.
I describe both legend as…
KK is amitabh, Rafi is Dilip Kumar.
Now if you people say Dilip Kumar is better than AMitabh than i will really sorry for you people.
For me both are genious in their own style.
Pls. listen below mentioned songs 3 -4 times sung by both:
1. Jaanu meri jaan, main tere kurban (SHAAN .. RDB)
Listen How Kishore say “Tere (terrrre)”
2. Tumko khush dekhkar main bahut khush hua (AAP KE DIWANE .. RAJESH ROSHAN)
3. Bane chahe dushman (DOSTANA …. LP)
4. Sa re ga ma (CHUPKE CHUPKE .. SD)
If u r really music lover and know abt music then u know who is the best
Thanks
May 14th, 2006 at 1:12 am
Ashwani….all you are doing is putting a foot into your mouth everytime you speak
Plus, you are just manifesting you are a colossal ignoramus when it comes to music. Get ready for the shock of your life once you open your eyes to the real world, because you will find that your KK is a non-singer with a loud, rickshaw-walla voice who has hardly sung any “real” songs in his entire career. There was a time when I had around 5,000 of Kishore songs in my collection, both Filmi & non-Filmi, and I have heard a big enough sample of his songs. When I compare his voice, his range, and his songs to Rafi’s, it’s almost like comparing like a drop of water(KK) to an ocean(Rafi).
You again show your poor taste by implying that KK sang “Man Re” better than Rafi. KK again makes the song sound cheap in his cheap voice, even though he deliberately choose one of the very few popular Rafi songs that he could even attempt to sing
I mean, KK would have died trying to sing any of the higher-pitch Rafi songs. It’s utterly laughable when I look at your list of what you think of as Kishore’s more difficult songs. Compare these childish songs to Rafi Saab’s work, and you would know the difference!! Plus, there is an effortlessness in Rafi’s singing—you could feel that he could touch any sur—which was totally missing from Kishore. He had this very constipated style of singing which he had in common with Kumar Sanu.
You are again wrong when you compare Rafi-KK duets, and try to delude yourself to thinking that KK has done a better job. A few things you should consider here. Firstly, I don’t think that KK has ever, for even a second, sounded better than Rafi and that’s mainly because of KK’s poor voice quality added to his million other weaknesses. Secondly, these are all easy, childish songs which Rafi was forced to sing because a non-singer like KK could hardly ever sing anything substantial and significant. Thirdly, even if in your own wildest imaginations you think that KK has done a better job, you should reming yourself that this is the most incorrect way of comparing. Taking a cricket analogy, there have been many occasions when players like Dhoni, Pathan, and even tail-enders like Kumble, Harbhajan, or Balaji outplay Sachin Tendulkar in a partnership and even dominate and go on to play a bigger things. Some simplistic people like you might start saying that these tail-enders are better batsman than the great Sachin. My point is that compare the total body of work, and you will realize that KK’s work is nothing, childish, and cheap compared to Rafi’s. To think of it, till Rafi was alive, almost all the MDs in Bollywood considered Rafi to be much better than even Lata….and that’s saying something!!
May 14th, 2006 at 7:42 am
HI Manoj,
I know you are big fan of Rafi but it doesn’t mean he is better than Lata and Kishore. You have rights to say that you are big fan of Rafi but truth is Kishore is far ahead of him.
To remind you, i must say there was hardly any work for Rafi between 1970-1976 execpt few songs, credit goes to KK. After that RD gave him “Kya hua Tera vaada” and LP “Sirdi wale sai baba” so again he manage to get work till he died.
See Kishore is like Viv. Richard and Lara who deliver best at any condition, not like Sachin who always search for his favourable his condition and Rafi was the same (Sachin). Manoj, simpistic people like me who can play better cricket, rate Lara better than Sachin.
Rafi fans says he is good classical singer, i am saying you can’t put him in the same league of Manna Dey. He was very good playback singer but of course not better than KK.
Dear Manoj, I know my music sense and i am proud of it, I like Rafi too. He is my second best but i am not like you who try to prove to go at any extent to make best whom you, you have to accept the truth.
I can just say, Lata is Lata. I have seen Sammi kapoor and Nassir husain interview who said Asha sung ” AAja-2 main hu pya tera” better than Rafi n i m agree to this.
May 14th, 2006 at 7:43 am
c
May 14th, 2006 at 7:46 am
Hi,
Sorry for me prev. blank comment, By mistake i have submitted.
Sorry..
May 14th, 2006 at 12:12 pm
Hi Ashwani,
Like a true KK fan, you clearly seem rattled, flustered, and nervous in the face of true competition and that’s why you are uploading blank and senseless posts
Anyways, I can understand and sympathize….you are a KK fan after all 
Anyways, just like a typical KK fan, all your reasonings and logic are baseless, and you are just getting emotional. I am telling you that I really liked KK and RDB tunes when I didn’t quite understand the nuances of music, and I have probably heard more of KK than most of KK fans. However, once I got into music, I realized how how challenged, and limited KK was as a singer. Plus, his voice was just too cheap, and loud.
Just read Ravi’s post above that Manna Dey told him personally that people in the music circles didn’t even count KK as a singer, and that it was just a sign of degradation of Indian music that a person like KK had become popular. He also jokingly said that he couldn’t say that in media since he was a Bengali himself, and people in Kolkata won’t be able to digest the truth!!
Anyways, unlike KK, Lata is undoubtedly a great great singer and everybody who knows music knows that. And I don’t want to get into a Rafi/Lata comparison because they are both supremely great singers. But I have heard from a lot of old-timers that when both Rafi & Lata were both at their peaks during 50’s & 60’s, Rafi was almost unanimously considered better than Lata. Of course, Lata has outlived and outsung Rafi by more than 25 years now, and that has helped in bolstering her already iconic image even more.
May 14th, 2006 at 4:16 pm
Dear Manoj,
There was a problem in my broadband due to which this happend. Manoj, at least we people accept our mistake, but not the same in ur case.
Nway, i think u had not read my prev. comments in which i replied Ravi on Manna Dey comment, Pls. read it.
Like me, there are 1000 of people who heard Manna dey on Radio City 2 months back where he said, Kishore was only singer who was not basura in any song and he also said “HE WAS UNCOMPARABLE”. Manoj, this is Manna Dey words not my.
As far as Rafi considered, He was genious in his own era/style, you can’t compare him with “Man of Parts” KISHORE.
You don;t have answers for all Kishore-Rafi duets songs which i have mentioned in my comments earlier. So in all ur prev. comments, you keep saying his voice was cheap and loud because you do console urself by saying so, pls. hear his soft and melidious songs also. I m sure i can’t change ur view, this is the frustration with all trained singers fans. They can’t digest one guy who was untrained but overshadow all SURAMAs in all fields whether its Direction (Door gagan ki Chaao mein, Jhumaroo), Music (same before), acting.
I hope you know SALIL choudhary, After MERE APNE movie songs, he said he made a huge mistake by not taking this guy as singer in his all prev. movie. He repented after singing kishore in all his forthcoming movies.
There is no point in just saying KK voice was cheap and loud. Please reply me on KK and Rafi duets, why Rafi was sidelined in almost all songs.
Before log off, i must say there was ASHA interview with Rajdeep Sardesai on CNN IBN where she said she was only scared of singing in front of LATA and KISHORE.
You and me are not better than ASHA BHONSALE and MANNA DEY.
Manoj, my friend, You can keep admiring Rafi even i do but don’t shy for giving credit to KK for his great work.
I am not frustrated but i can see the same at ur end.
Thats all i have to say.
Take Care.
May 15th, 2006 at 1:01 am
Ashwani,
I have met Manna personally backstage after a concert, and I have heard him tell me and about 20 other people that Kishore was the worst of all the singers in those days!! What he is saying on the radio is all politics, he has to say it for different reasons…but I guess you are too naive to grasp the nuances of that. Anyways, I have at least 5-10 different interviews of Manna Dey where he has mentioned that Rafi is/was the greatest singer of all…even greater than Lata.
I even have an interview where the interview asks Manna Dey specifically to compare Rafi, KK, and Mukesh. Manna begins the answer by saying that Rafi was so much better than everyone else that he was on a different and much higher level than both KK & Mukesh.
I didn’t feel necessary to respond to your comments on the Rafi-KK duets only because I, and all the Rafi fans, think that Rafi totally dominated all the duets and has totally exposed the non-singer KK who just resorts to shouting the fun songs instead of singing, and generally sings the songs very flat. I answered all your comments of Rafi-KK duets just by saying I don’t think that KK has ever, for even a second, sounded better than Rafi and that’s mainly because of KK’s poor voice quality. In the world of singing, the quality of voice is paramount and that’s why till RDB came to the fore, all the MDs(except fellow-Bengali SDB) avoided touching KK like a bubonic plague. Anyways, talking about a specific Rafi-KK duet, just listen to “Ek Rasta Do Raahi” from Ram Balram and you will notice the HUGE difference between a genius like Rafi and a clown like KK. Rafi sings the song effortlessly and masterfully, while KK is just shouting through in his constipated style. Of special notice is the point when the antaras wrap up in a higher pitch and while Rafi breezes through it effortlessly, Kishore sounds so constipated that he can’t even say the words clearly!!
It’s just gross, and this just shows you why KK ran away from so many different songs. The guy just didn’t have the range of a real singer. He was never meant to be a singer! And in all the songs that you mention like “Tumko Khush Dekh Kar” and “Sa Re Ga Ma”, I think Rafi sounds much much superior than KK the non-singer.
Anyways, looking at the bigger picture, just listen to all of Rafi’s songs and all of KK’s, and try to understand the nuances of the songs, and then you will realize how much better Rafi was/is than any other singer. I am just proud that he was an Indian because I have never heard any other singer in any language even close to being as good as Rafi Saab!!
May 15th, 2006 at 2:39 pm
Manoj,
I am sure whatever he told you behind the scene was only and only politics because somewhere Manna Dey also became the victim of Kishore’s popularity. He along with others accepted that he lost to Kishore in “Chatur Naar Karke Singar” though he was not ready to lose but after dubbing he accepted the defeat. How can you say whaterver he is saying on Radio is politics and only he is saying truth to you.
Manoj, pls. wake up and accept the reality.
Now i am sure about your knowledge in Music after reading ur comments on SDB and Ram-Balram songs. Rafi is nowhere near to KK in “Ek rasta aaha-aaha” just listen how Rafi render “aaha-aaha” and how Kishore render “aaha-aaha” no comaparison. I think you keep forwarding Kishore version which sound like constipation
for you. Pls. hear him instead of forwarding, constipation will not be there 
.
As far as SDB concern, he gave enough chance to Rafi and commenting aginst him show ur lacking knowledge in music.
I started listen Rafi songs till i was in 8th but as i matured i started liking “Man of the Parts” Kishore.
UR comments:
“In the world of singing, the quality of voice is paramount and that’s why till RDB came to the fore, all the MDs(except fellow-Bengali SDB) avoided touching KK like a bubonic plague.”
Reply for ur comment:
RDB gave Kishore full-fledge song in “PADOSAN” before that LP gave major hit with KK “MR. X in Bombay”, Pls. go through music history. Before 1969, Kishore was very much inclined to his acting so there was not at all competition for Rafi but when he jumped into singing with 100%, he left everybody including Rafi behind. Rafi was unable to get work till 1976(I know you get constipation after reading it).
There is/was only one competitot for Kishore and that is/was KISHORE himself. Manoj, except Nausad and O P Nayyar rafi was not a first choice for any MDs in 50’s, 60’s and 70’s i don’t want to talk abt because KISHORE and only Kishore was everywhere.
Shankar-Jaikishan, Salil Choudhary, Khayyam, Roshan always like MUKESH. And after 69, all get replaced with KISHORE.
Manoj, in one sentence, people like you always blame Microsoft, they criticise Microsoft at any stage. Even though Java is platform independent(Rafi-classical touch), Microsoft is ruling since last 30 yrs and Java people is cripping like Rafi fans.
Same thing is true in case of KISHORE.
May 15th, 2006 at 3:11 pm
Manoj,
Ashu is Ashwani.
thanx
May 15th, 2006 at 10:17 pm
Ashu,
Dude….constipation is the trait of KK, Kumar Sanu, and some of his other fans, so you can keep it with yourself. Anyways, since you gave me a corporate industry analogy to me, let me tell you that Rafi is like the Microsoft, HP, IBM, Sun, Yahoo, eBay, and Google all combined into one. He is/was virtually the Voice of India.
You are virtually deluding yourself into thinking that KK was more inclined towards acting till Aradhana came. This again shows your lack of reasoning, rationale, and lack of knowledge. If you ask anybody who knows KK(and I have met such people personally at concerts etc.) they will all tell you that his first and foremost love was singing and that he was the most reluctant actor. He used to act just that he could get some songs to sing in his own movies. The fact is that everybody used to avoid him like an extremely bad, bubonic plague. It’s irrelevant that he finally became successful as a singer later(thanks to the promotion and popularization that he got through RDB & Rajesh Khanna). You would be childish to think that being popular and in-demand(like KK was in the 70’s) always imply being very good. In KK’s case, this wasn’t the case. Just compare his body of work with Rafi’s and you would be feeling humbled and exposed.
I seriously think that you don’t understand music, you don’t play any musical instruments, and that you are NOT definitely not a good/decent singer. All of this is pretty clear from your remarks. The point is that you can continue on loving KK, but you are in the wrong forum. You will definitely be despised and looked down upon in forums like these especially when you try to go against the GREATEST Rafi. Just go and write in a KK forum and like-minded people(with low tastes, and no or very li’l understanding of music) will agree with you and will appreciate your strange, emotional, and entirely baseless comments.
May 16th, 2006 at 10:43 am
Manoj,
If you see all my blog, i have never said anything cheap against Rafi that is not my cup of tea except few comparison i made with KK as music lover, i am not like you who don’t give respect to others.
Music lovers never says cheap or loud to any great singers whether its Udit, Sonu Nigam, Sanu, anwar, abhijit. Like and dislike always vary from people to people.
Today if you will ask for voting, KK will win. So please accept the reality.
Being popular and in-demand(like KK, Amitabh, Lara, Bill Gates) always imply being very good, people like you who opposed them and make them greatest.
FYI i play Table and how many people play Table nowaday. As far as KK concern, Not only he is/was a great singer but also he had great sense of music direction. KK music direction list is as follows:
1. Jhumaroo
2. Door Gagan ke chhaon me
3. Pyar ajnabi hai (U might have not heard of this composition) and many more……
I liked whatever u said abt Kishore acting. Manoj, He came to industry to become singer but circumstances diverted him toward acting and he was very busy in that till 1969. That’s what i meant.
Manoj, How you people can maintain double standard? One side you people abuse Microsoft and other side you praise also.
Manoj, My taste is not low and people who think cheap abt other they are one who behave cheap like you.
I don’t have any problem with Rafi or Rafi fans. As i said Rafi is always my second best favourite male singer.
May 16th, 2006 at 11:51 am
Hi Ashwani,
The bottomline is that you are intruding into a Rafi forum and trying to bring him down and show him second-best to a singer who was clearly not in the same league and which everybody who is unbiased and some music nous and understanding knows very well. This is just bad manners, and this is why I have been pretty stern, firm, and blunt with you. I would never intrude into a KK forum and hurt his fans by showing him inferior to somebody else. Why would I?? And if I ever did, I would accept whatever they hurl at me. The problem with you is that you are getting all sensitive and offended when you should be actually expecting it. As I said earlier that you can write eulogies on your favorite KK in a KK forum and like-minded people(ppl who are naive about music and aren’t that musically literate) will like your thoughts and admire your taste. See my point????
May 16th, 2006 at 1:22 pm
Manoj,
I saw ur points which is cheap. You mean to say those who are listening KK are not literate and naive, U mean to say Rajesh Roshan, LP, RDB and new generation MDs are naive. That is rediculous, only Rafi fans are intelligent and music literate
, Its really funny and kiddy.
I don’t have intention to hurt you and i don’t have any problem with Rafi fans, i know abt him as good as i know abt KK.
I spend my saturday with all three legends KK, Rafi and Mukesh but i give KK edge over other 2 legends. I never say any cheap thing to anyone.
But you are crossing the etiqutte by abusing great singer by producing one side proof and ignoring other side. That prompt me to reply nothing else.
Take care.
May 16th, 2006 at 10:47 pm
Ashwani,
If you go back and look at the message thread, you will know that you are the first one in the thread to show Rafi as the second-best. I only responded after you had written here. You are the one who started it in a forum of Rafi fans, and that’s why you deserve to be treated this way. At least admit your mistake, or at least be ready to face the consequences, and you are doing neither!! I am sorry to say that you just can’t even see the reasoning and rationale of things!!! I would have never uttered a word against you or KK if you hadn’t started it. That’s why I told you that your comments were more appropriate for a KK forum where you will find like-minded people. Open your eyes and smell some coffee!! KK & Mukesh are alright on their own, but it’s just unfair to compare him to Rafi. I repeat that you need to understand the nuances of music to know the difference between Rafi & the rest, and you definitely don’t get it!!
May 17th, 2006 at 9:43 am
Manoj,
I know the difference and that is the reason i wanted to open your eyes. As i said in my prev. blog that like and dislike vary from people to people. I don’t want you to admire KK but atleat you should give respect to him. I don’t mind if you say Rafi is greatest but if you start compare with kK then i can’t stop myself and I grab opportunity to let you people to know the reality.
This is the first comment i wrote in this forum and tell me where i said, Rafi is cheap
============================================================================
hI,
There is no doubt that Rafi was among the greatest singer india has produced. But personally i feel Kishore is far ahead of him as playback. People take Kishore very lightly because of his jolly image but they don’t know abt real Kishore.
I always compare singer with their duet with each other not with their solo songs. If solo is benchmark then everybosy has done a good job. For e.g. 1. Tum bin Jaou kaha 2. Ek mahal ma chhamchham karti 3. Jum premi prem karna.
All above songs sung by Kishore and Rafi but Kishore was far ahead of Rafi. I know It hard to believe for Rafi. I believe both are great but if somebody says Rafi is great then i remind them.
===============================================================================
Pls. try to read my above comment carefully, it may help you to undesrtand me clearly. I am sure you are not pt. Bhimsen Joshi, JashRaj, Gulam Ali or Lata who knows music better than others. I have my own knowlwdge abt music and i am proud of it.
May 17th, 2006 at 11:37 pm
Ashu,
But let me ask you this very simple question. Why did you have to visit a Rafi forum and make an outrageously wild comment like “Kishore is far ahead of him as playback”. That statement of yours was totally uncalled for in this forum, and should have been reserved for a KK forum. This statement of yours started it all. I would be expecting a really rough and hostile reaction if I ever mention in a KK forum that RAFI IS FAR AHEAD OF KK AS FAR AS PLAYBACK SINGING GOES. Think logically, and then you will understand why I have been so stern, and maybe even a li’l harsh on you. In case you thought that you will convert Rafians in a Rafi forum to think that your KK was the best, then you must be fooling yourself. Maybe you don’t understand but fans are fans, and are not that easily swayed away.
By the way, I used the word “cheap” only in reference to KK’s voice. I think, and I have met a lot of people who agree, that KK’s voice wasn’t the ideal singing voice, and a lot of songs sound loud, harsh, and cheap because of his voice. I don’t know why you took the comment so “personally”. I never called the man cheap or anything. In fact, I have the greatest respect for KK as a film personality, and I think he was very talented overall. I think he was quite a decent singer too in his own right, but was nowhere near Rafi’s vast talents and gifts as a singer. Learn to take things in the right spirit and at their face value. I mean, you should realize that you started the debate, so you should be ready to face the consequences.
May 17th, 2006 at 11:51 pm
Ashu,
By the way, you are totally wrong to believe that whatever is more popular is better. In a very well-known poll, Maradona was rated the best soccer player of all times by more than 80% of the people, with Pele getting only 15% of the votes. Whoever understands soccer knows that Pele was on a totally different level than Maradona and other soccer greats.
There also have been polls where Shahrukh has been rated better and bigger than even Amitabh, so you should know not to fall into the herd mass mentality.
Anyways, I have a very strong feeling that Rafi will be rated the best playback singer by people who understand music and know the difference. Just listen to what SPB, IllyaRaja, Yesudas, Lata Mangeshkar, Ravi, Naushad, Manna Dey, Anu Malik, LP, SJ, Anoop Jalota, Shailendra Singh, OP Nayyar, Sonu Nigam, Udit Narayan and a host of other music professionals have said about Rafi. In fact, if you talk to the old-timers in the Hindi music circles, they will tell you that during the 50’s & 60’s, even Lata was considered an inferior singer to Rafi, and that Lata had a Rafi complex all those years because of Rafi’s unparalleled talent and range. That’s why, as great as Lata was/is, she is really lucky that she has outlived Rafi by more than 25 years. These extra years have helped her build a demi-god like image for herself, when in fact, Rafi has actually been the GREATEST of all bollywood singers.
May 18th, 2006 at 12:17 pm
Again you are running on wrong track.
Tell me who said Rafi is better than KK and KK is better then Rafi from the list of singers/MDs you have mentioned in the comments.
SPB always admire KK, just listen his track he sung in LATA concert, he took KK songs. He could not justify but he chose KK songs.
Sailendra singh is hugh admirer of KK. I saw his interview in Zee TV in 1994-5 in “GAATA RAHE MERA DIL” programme. I am sure you have not heard of this programme. As you music lover i’ve never miss a single programme on music.
Manoj, I am telling u all this with proof not just throwing ballon in the air like you.
I will tell you those who knows the music they will never compare two legends apart from their legendary style.
Whatever you are saying is baseless and unbelievable. I wrote many time that it is ur mistake that ur knowledge is better than anyone else.
Comparing Lata with Rafi shows another lack of music knowledge. Male and Female can’t be compared and FYI female voices are always better than male voices.
Whatever you said is ur imagination, as i wrote in my prev. blog what Nasir hussain thought on Rafi after hearing “AAJA-2 Main HU PYAR TERA” and this is not imaginary, it was telecast in Doordarshan and CNN IBN while having chat with ASHA/Nasir Hussain and Rajdeep Sardesai(Hope u know him).
KK is like amitabh, no doubt.
For your info, Lata told in her inetrview abt Kishore “HE IS SAMPOORNA KALAKAAR”.
ASHA said that she had to work hard whenever she had to sing with KISHORE/LATA.
You view is “0″ before 2 living legends views.
Madonna and Pele comparison is happened outside INDIA that’s why you can see such foolish result, u should know this. Indian are more intelligent than anybody else. If you remember Amitabh became “STAR OF THE MELLENIUM” because we indian votes. And same year they said “KK is ‘SINGER OF THE MELLENIUM’”.
May 18th, 2006 at 10:06 pm
Ashu,
You are like a rabbit blinded by bright lights. If you look at the messages history, yours is the FOURTH message and before my first message in this thread!! Do you get it????? So you started it all by making a childish statement that “I feel Kishore is far ahead of him as playback”. I am sure you will still not be able to figure out what’s happening here.
I don’t care what Nasir Hussain feels about one Rafi duet with Asha. Rafi might have had his bad days like every human being, but he dominated all other singers in most of their duets, and the whole music world knows that. Even if you imagine in your wildest thoughts that Rafi didn’t sing one song very well, it doesn’t matter because you look at the entire body of work and then compare. Rafi’s body of work dwarfs even Asha’s & Lata’s, and let’s not even talk about KK’s childish stuff.
And talking about SPB & Shailendra Singh….just ask them who the best male singer ever is and they will tell you Rafi right to your face!! Yeah, they might admire KK but they rate KK much lower than Rafi. In fact, I have a video interview of SPB where he says that he considers Rafi to be at least 10 times better than the next best singer. Dude…..aresn’t you deluded!! And you don’t even understand that even Lata calls KK a “Sampoorn Kalakar” because he was pretty good in a lot of different fields. Lata has never ever called KK as the best singer, and will never do. She knows better than that. I guess you can’t even figure out the meaning of people’s statements!!!!!!!! There is a HUGE difference between saying “Sampoorn Kalakar” and “Greatest Ever Singer”, and we are talking only about singing in this forum, in case you missed that point too.
May 18th, 2006 at 10:18 pm
By the way, I have heard all of SPB, IllyaRaja, Yesudas, Ravi, Naushad, Manna Dey, Anu Malik, LP, SJ, Anoop Jalota, Shailendra Singh, OP Nayyar, Sonu Nigam, Udit Narayan say “specifically” in interviews that Rafi has been the GREATEST male singer in Bollywood, and some of these people have also said that he has been the GREATEST singer in Bollywood regardless of male and female.
Don’t be quoting meaningless statements like “sampoorn kalakar” and stuff like that to us, because it doesn’t mean the greatest singer by any stretch of imagination….I guess it’s hard for you to know the difference.
Learn to read between the lines!!! 
May 19th, 2006 at 10:30 am
Manoj,
I KNow the difference that’s why i am trying to take you on right path. Last week Anu malik came to Radio City, he was interviewed with Sonu Nigam where he said Rafi and Kishore both are legend in their own style.
I don;t know where you saw SPB, IllyaRaja, Yesudas, Ravi, Naushad, Manna Dey, Anu Malik, LP, SJ, Anoop Jalota, Shailendra Singh, OP Nayyar, Sonu Nigam, Udit Narayan says “Rafi is greatest”, must be in your dream.
Manoj, you are penning things which you want to hear from others.
I have seen and read almost all interviews given by MDs and singers so whatever you said 100% wrong and baseless. Just watch SPB’s quote abt KK in LATA concert.
Udit said in his interview in “GAATA RAHE MERA DIL” that he wanted to become KISHORE and RAFI because they got the same status and fame as our heroes like AMitabh and DILIP KUMAR are getting.
Boss what am i writing is with proof, not just cooking something in air.
Manoj, you are sounding cheap by saying meaningless quote by LATA.
May 19th, 2006 at 11:24 am
Manoj,
The comment which i have attached in my 3rd last blog was my first comment in this forum, you came later. First Ravi who replied me then you, so boss please check it with ur naked eyes.
If you don’t care Nasir Hussain, Lata and Asha then who cares you. According to you my childish statement “I feel Kishore is far ahead of him as playback”. I wrote “I” and i hope you undesrtand meaning of “I”.
Manoj, Just watch Lata interview, it will clear ur inherit doubts.
Just check what Lata said abt KK in LA concert.
May 19th, 2006 at 2:19 pm
Poor Ashu…don’t be in denial just because you stand brutally exposed. You are absolutely crazy and deluded in thinking that I am making stuff up on what SPB, IllyaRaja, Yesudas, Ravi, Naushad, Manna Dey, Anu Malik, LP, SJ, Anoop Jalota, Shailendra Singh, OP Nayyar, Sonu Nigam, Udit Narayan says “Rafi is greatest”. I have their interviews in either film magazines, tv interviews or on the internet. This is quite a big and illustrious list and some or most of these guys might like Kishore too but ALL OF THESE PEOPLE RATE RAFI HIGHER THAN KISHORE, and just as well because KK was nothing compared to the GREATEST Rafi. Ashwani…………after all these exchanges, I am sorry to say that you sound like a person who is not only illiterate musically but perhaps also otherwise too. You need to learn how to think critically and analyze the depth of things, rather than think and talk like an eight-year old.
Talking about popularity, let me give you a huge shock that Rafi & Lata are the most popular and well-known singers from the Indian subcontinent in the entire world overall. More people request Rafi’s songs on the radio & TV shows than even Lata, forget your favorite Kishore!! Different singers are more popular in different segments of the community, but Rafi is the #1 singer even in popularity, at least amongst all the male singers.
May 19th, 2006 at 2:58 pm
Manoj,
Again u r sounding chidish. Sometime u says popularity doesn’t imply greatness.
And what u said in ur last blog:
“More people request Rafi’s songs on the radio & TV shows than even Lata”
Even today more people demand KK over Lata and Rafi.
I am sure u r always free, just listen FM/Zee Musi/V TV, u can found more KK songs on demand.
Pls. be firm on ur word buddy,
8 yrs. old guys are always better than u (may be in later 30’s) because whatever they say, they say from their heart. Not like you who doesn’t accept the truth and always want to run away from truth.
I know u r very intelligent who doesn’t know how to respect great personality.
If intelligent people are like you then sorry i am ok with illieterate.
May 19th, 2006 at 8:46 pm
All I will say is that KK is not even a patch on Rafi Saab.
Ashwini or Ashu whoever you are that one person using two names.
Since you brought this example of Ram Balram.
In Ram Balram Ik Rasta Do Rahi just listen to Rafi Sahab sing the line HUM CHALTE HAAAIN TO DETE HAAAIN KADAM YEH GAWAHI. Just so so class the way he says it. Honestly when I heard this song when I was a kid I did not know it was Rafi and Kishore singing it I only knew it was Amithab and Dharmendrain the film.
Amithab in the film sounded so heavy voice when he sings ACHA HAI HARAB HAI BURA HAI NAIK HAI and who sang it KK as if he is trying to prove he is more better than Rafi as towering over him.
When Rafi saab sings that line Oh my god you really hear a nice smoothing voice what else can I say honestly that made me take up and notice Dharmendra in the film. Whats more Rafi goes on to dominate the song.
Have you heard of Rafi saabs SADKE HEER TUJHPE HUM FAKEER SADKE. On Asian Gold radio the presenter said no other singer shall be able to repeat what Rafi saab did there.
Listen to Yeh Duniya Yeh Mehfil and the line at the beginning where he says MERE KAAM KI NAHIN honestly I heard this with the headphones on and the feeling, the emotion, I cannot believe how good it was.
Listen to YEH RAAT HAI PYAASI PYASI. Listen to the lines NAYI AAG DIL KO JALANE LAGI HAI MACHALNA SIKANE LAGI HAI and so on and I can tell you that no other singer will be able to do justice.
Khalid Rashid
UK
May 19th, 2006 at 8:50 pm
Oh and Ashu or Ashwini
I forgot to put that SHRI MOHD RAFI SAAB THE GREATEST SINGER BOLLYWOOD EVER PRODUCED. Just in case you forget that.
KK good singer, loud singer yes I like some of his songs but thats all.
with all respect
Khalid Rashid
UK
May 20th, 2006 at 2:27 am
Also Ashwini or Ashu you mentioned that KYA HUA TERA VADA sung by Rafi saab could be sung by anyone. EXACTLY because RD Burman could only compose songs that were easy to sing Not Rafi saabs fault.
Kishore Kumar songs are also easy to sing. But what I really like about this song is that that is the song that he Rafi saab won the award for and also coming from a RD composing who always favoured Kishore.
No need to get upset as I am only making this point because you brought it up in the first place.
Khalid Rashid
UK
May 20th, 2006 at 7:06 pm
Dear Rashid,
I am using 2 name because my laptop has name “ashu” and my desktop has name “ashwani” so when i use laptop, you can see ashu and desktop, ashwani. I have written a programe which reads machine name and display it in the ‘NAME’ textbox. Hope u got it.
Nway now come to KK and Rafi point. I like ur blog because you wrote what you really think correct from ur point of view, not like Manoj who just throw baloon in the air.
Just listen to this line in same song (Raam Balram) KK and rafi both sang : “Mana hai hum dono ka juda hai raasta”. KK is awesome.
Rashid, all Rafi songs you mentioned in ur blog is terrific. I like it so much but i request don’t compare KK and Rafi with their solo songs.
Just listen KK solo songs which are not famous but they are great:
1. Yaadon me wo jaaye kahan, dhadkan ka bandhan to dhadkan se hai
2. Na koi dil me samaya, na koi pahlu me aaya (AA gale lag ja)
3. matlabi hai log yaha par matlabi zamana (Begana)
4. Meri zindagi ne mujhpe ehsaan kya kiya hai (DO aur do paanch)…Very low note.
Indivisually u can’t compare both but yes you can compare them with their duets.
You can listen following songs and come up with views.
1. Ek mahal maa chhamchham karti rahti dui sahzadi …the way KK sing “DUI” fantastic
2. Sa re ga ma (Chupke-2_)
3. Tumko khush dekhkar main bahut khush hua (AAP ke Diwane)
4. Kya mausam hai (Doosra Aadmi)
There are many songs and if u r really music lover, u can easily differentiate and find KK is far ahead.
I am not going to stop you by saying “Rafi is greatest”. This line is true according to you but not me.
Rafi fans always complaint that RDB favored KK, i m saying why not if RDB thought only KK could do justice to his composition.
You should not forget RDB first choice was Rafi till AAradhana. Hope you rememeber ‘The Train, Baharo ke Sapne, of course Pyar ka mousam’.
Once again I always rate KK with Rafi with their duets not with their solo.
Rafi’s solo and KK’ sole both are marvelous.
I am big fan of KK and Rafi but i like KK more.
So Rashid, according to me KK is greatest.
There is nothing personal, so pls. understand it.
May 20th, 2006 at 7:10 pm
Rashid,
I formatted my desktop today and wrongly spelled my machine name. Just now i reset.
Reason for writing to make you sure that you do not get confused.
:)
Regard
May 20th, 2006 at 7:12 pm
Dear Rashid,
I am using 2 name because my laptop has name ashu and my desktop has name ashwani so when i use laptop, you can see ashu and desktop, ashwani. I have written a programe which reads machine name and display it in the ‘NAME’ textbox. Hope u got it.
Nway now come to KK and Rafi point. I like ur blog because you wrote what you really think correct fromur point of view, not like Manoj who just throw baloon in the air.
Just listen to this line in same song (Raam Balram) KK and rafi both sang : “Mana hai hum dono ka juda hai raasta”. KK is awesome.
Rashid, all Rafi songs you mentioned in ur blog is terrific. I like it so much but i request don’t compare KK and Rafi with their solo songs.
Just listen KK songs :
1. Yaadon me wo jaaye kahan, dhadkan ka bandhan to dhadkan se hai
2. Na koi dil me samaya, na koi pahlu me aaya (AA gale lag ja)
3. matlabi hai log yaha par matlabi zamana (Begana)
4. Meri zindagi ne mujhpe ehsaan kya kiya hai (DO aur do paanch)…Very low note.
Indivisually u can’t compare both but yes you can compare them with their duets.
You can listen following songs and come up with views.
1. Ek mahal maa chhamchham karti rahti dui sahzadi …the way KK sing “DUI” fantastic
2. Sa re ga ma (Chupke-2_)
3. Tumko khush dekhkar main bahut khush hua (AAP ke Diwane)
4. Kya mausam hai (Doosra Aadmi)
There are many songs and if u r really music lover, u can easily differentiate and find KK is far ahead.
I am not going to stop you by saying “Rafi is greatest”. This line is true according to you but not me.
Rafi fans always complaint that RDB favored KK, i m saying why not if RDB thought only KK could do justice to his composition.
You should not forget RDB first choice was Rafi till AAradhana. Hope you rememeber ‘The Train, Baharo ke Sapne, of course Pyar ka mousam’.
Once again I always rate KK with Rafi with their duets not with their solo.
Rafi’s solo and KK’ sole both are marvelous.
I am big fan of KK and Rafi but i like KK more.
So Rashid, according to me KK is greatest.
There is nothing personal, so pls. understand it.
May 20th, 2006 at 7:29 pm
Rashid,
As you said RDB always give easiest composition to KK. It means RDB composed only easy music because 80-90% of his song sung by KISHORE.
Few of many RDB easiest composition for KISHORE
1. O Manjhi Re Tera kinara
2. Kucch to log kahenge
Note: Manna Dey was begging for this songs from RDB but after listening this song. He said “I could have not done justice to this song as KISHORE did”. This is not my word, this is Manna Da word.
3. Main Shaayar Badnaam
4. Na koi dil me samaya.
5. Meri pyari Bindu
Note: Its hilarious but if you have time please listen the way he sang.
I can mention few of many easy song composed by LP
Na hasana mere gham pe, insaaf karna..
Jo main ro padu to mujhe maaf karna.
Note: Just listen last anatara
Again, I am not comparing KK with Rafi from their SOLO, Reason for writing this blog is, According to u KK sung all easiest songs pls. listen above songs as music lover not as rafi fan.
Enjoy.
May 21st, 2006 at 12:37 am
Poor Ashu,
Since you are just so ridiculously deluded, I am sending a Manna Dey interview for you in which he says that categorically that amongst all the male singers “I don’t think there is anyone to touch Mohd Rafi.”.
http://www.littleindia.com/september2004/AiMerePyareWatan.htm
I have another inteview where he calls Mohd. Rafi as the greatest singer in the world, and then mentions that Lata & Asha are his 2 other favorite singers!!!! I will send you this link later once I find it. I have yet another interview where Manna Dey says that Rafi holds the positions 1 to 10 in the world of playback singing.
Also read what Udit Narayan, Sonu Nigam etc. have to say about Rafi. Udit Narayan clearly says that “I admire all our great singers, but to me Rafisaab is the ultimate.” That clearly means that Udit rates Rafi higher than your KK. http://www.screenindia.com/fullstory.php?content_id=10916
May 21st, 2006 at 12:58 am
Ashu,
To respond to your allegations, I am not throwing balloon in the air. You think like that because you feel really cornered and exposed.
It’s you who is just “throwing balloons in the air” by mentioning O Manjhi Re Tera kinara, and Main Shayar Badnaam as difficult songs
Do you have any consience at all?? Any shame?? If you can’t even sing these childish songs, then you might not even sing in Bollywood. 
It just goes to show that you are such an ignoramus!!
The only reason why I told you I didn’t want to get into individual songs is that it’s childish for you to try to judge and compare a phenomena called Rafi by one or two songs. And I told you before that I have heard almost all of KK songs, and he has never ever sounded better than the GREATEST Rafi. Plus, Rafi has sounded 100 times better even in all the Rafi-KK duets that you have mentioned. Anyways, I mentioned to you the Ram Balram example. Listen to the song again, and you will notice the difference. To quote me from my other post:
“For example, listen to “Ek Rasta Do Raahi” from Ram Balram and you will notice the HUGE difference between a genius like Rafi and a clown like KK. Rafi sings the song effortlessly and masterfully, while KK is just shouting through in his constipated style. Of special notice is the point when the antaras wrap up in a higher pitch and while Rafi breezes through it effortlessly, Kishore sounds so constipated that he can’t even say the words clearly!!
”
And to your point that anyone could have sung Kya Hua Tera Vaada, I should tell you that you are partly right. Most competent singers could have sung this song well, but not Kishore. Firstly, even though the antaras are not very high-pitch, it is still high pitched enough to make Kishore sound like he is constipating. I mean, KK couldn’t even pull off Nafrat Ki Duniya after several tries and the MDs had to send a special request to Rafi, and Nafrat Ki Duniya is not even such a tough song. Secondly, Kishore’s voice was just too loud, harsh and this song will also have ended up sounding cheap. Again, I have the greatest respect for KK as a film personality, but I can’t help it if his voice wasn’t very good….I am just stating the facts.
May 21st, 2006 at 2:49 pm
Manoj,
I feel very sorry for u, u r sounding cheap everytime.
Now i understand ur knowledge abt music and other area.
I remember in one blog i said KK is like Microsoft and Rafi is Java(SUN) and u replied (Note: As u didn’t have any word to say apart from stealing my words) that RAFI is like Microsoft, HP, ebay and etc.
Manoj, my fried, you should know that Microsot, HP, ebay are working in different-2 domain. There is no competition between Microsoft, HP,ebay but there is huge competition between Microsoft and Java(SUN).
Just check DHONI and SACHIN interview, their preferred singer is none other than KISHORE. I saw live DHONi on NDTV yesterday where he said he alwasy listen KK after asking question on songs by audience (I am sure there is no politics and he is not RDB’s relative
) and SACHIN said the same thing long back. He has huge collection of KISHORE, he also listen MUKESH.
And You mean to say LP did not have music knowledge that he allow kishore to sing RAM BALRAAM song and many hits even though KK could not utter the word correctly.
Pls. go to some specialist and get check-up ur ears. Till now i did not say anything against RAFI because i had great respect for him n i m great music lover. Rafi could not do justice to many songs, it doesn’t mean i would say something wrong/cheap abt him.
Listen few Rafi songs mention below and come up with ur opinion. I don’t want to say anything against Rafi.
1. Salaam kijiye, aayi hai Aarti Devi ..(Bhupinder sound better)
2. Bottle se ek baat chali hai .. (disaster)
Manoj, just listen
1. EK Mahal ma chhamchham karti rahti dui sahzadi
Manoj, I have those collection of Rafi and KISHORE which u would not have listen yet. And I am fond of collecting all those songs sung by Rafi/KK which are not famous.
From next blog, don’t forget to mention “I” before u say Kishore was cheap and loud because it is ur personal view so say “I think” OR “I feel’. U can’t take everybody granted.
You are saying “O majhi Re”, “Nafrat ki Duniya” are not tough songs, can u pls. render both songs in ur voice and upload it to my mail. This is my mailid: songdb@rediffmail.com.
May 21st, 2006 at 3:38 pm
Ashwani…you are a complete idiot who can’t even understand the context of statements. I said that Rafi is like Microsoft, HP, IBM, Sun, Yahoo, eBay, and Google all combined into one. It was supposed to be a “metaphor” if you know what that means. It was supposed to imply that Rafi was the greatest in almost “all” aspects of singing since all these companies excel in different fields of IT. I am senior VP myself at Yahoo, and know the high-tech industry much better than insignificant imbeciles like you. No wonder you like Kishore so blindly….you don’t have any class, you are totally illiterate both musically and otherwise. Again, you put your foot in the mouth by quoting people like Dhoni & Sachin….they are good cricketers, but not well-versed in music either, and not the most educated people. The fact that you are getting excited by Dhoni’s musical choice shows your lack of education, cheapness, and lack of any class. You poor thing….you need help!!!
May 21st, 2006 at 4:09 pm
Ashwani,
Let me know whenever you are in Bangalore next. I work for Yahoo Bangalore, and am also involved with a small band in the city. I will introduce you to my band, and will also demonstrate how easy the apparently difficult songs of Kishore are.
-Manoj
May 22nd, 2006 at 9:39 am
Manoj,
U r idiot and etiquetteless guy. FYI I am not in Bangalore.
Currently i am in Japan and basically from Delhi.
I m not eager to see u or ur band because i already visualize what kind of person u r. Just stop runing around bush, and compile ur song and post it to my mentioned mail address.
Before u said Rafi is like blah-blah, if u read all the mail then u will find that i wrote KK is Microsoft before u wrote the same for Rafi and still u don’t know that there is no comparison between “Microsoft, HP, IBM, Sun, Yahoo, eBay, and Google” as a whole, may be partly google has search Engine (ONLY), ebay is Ecommerce but as whole Microsoft is pioneer.
Boss, don’t get offended.
I have never been personal to u and i m asking u to follow the same etiqutte.
If u r involved in Yahoo band then u should aware that u can’t miss KISHORE in any show but u can miss RAFI.
Boss i can also write like you if u don’t stop writing nonsense thing.
Don’t get personal and follow the forum rule. It will be good for u, me and forum.
May 22nd, 2006 at 9:49 am
Manoj,
As u said u r senior VP, nice to read it.
But u should know that u don’t have rights to say ‘IDIOT’ or someother nonsense thing.
I can also say the same thing to u but then there will not be nay difference between u and me.
Hope u understand and behave nicely.
U can write anything on Rafi or KISHORE, i will put my point for that but don’t get personal.
May 22nd, 2006 at 11:51 am
Manoj,
U r idiot and etiquetteless guy. FYI I am not in Bangalore.
Currently i am in Japan and basically from Delhi.
And I m not eager to see u or ur band because i’ve already visualized what kind of person u r. Just stop runing around bush, and compile ur song and post it to my mentioned mail address.
Before u said Rafi is like blah-blah, if u read all the mail then u will find that i wrote KK is Microsoft before u wrote the same for Rafi and still u don’t know that there is no comparison between “Microsoft, HP, IBM, Sun, Yahoo, eBay, and Google” as a whole, may be partly google has search Engine (ONLY), ebay is Ecommerce but as whole Microsoft is pioneer.
Boss, don’t get offended.
I have never been personal to u till now and i m asking u to follow the same etiqutte.
If u r involved in Yahoo band then u should aware that u could not miss KISHORE in any show but u can miss RAFI easily.
Boss i can also write like you if u don’t stop writing nonsense thing.
Manoj, As u said u r senior VP, nice to read it but disaapointed with ur sense/attitudes.
You should know that u don’t have rights to say ‘IDIOT’ or some nonsense thing to other.
I can also say the same thing to u but if i do so the same then there will not be any difference between u and me.
Hope u understand and behave nicely as a gentleman now onwards.
U can write anything on Rafi or KISHORE because it would be ur view not others.
Don’t get personal. It will be good for u, me and forum.
May 22nd, 2006 at 2:08 pm
This blog is just to tell you what i mean on “Microsoft, HP, IBM, Sun, Yahoo, eBay, and Google”
MICROSOFT: KISHORE KUMAR (Versatile- OS, Coding Tool, Office, and above all criticise by so called “knowledgable person”)
HP: MAHMOOD (Comedy acting, direction, production)
IBM: RAJ KAPOOR (Acting, Direction, Production, involded in all technical part)
SUN: MOHD. RAFI (Great in SInging, CLassical trained and great respect)
Yahoo: Amitabh (Acting, production, little bit singing)
eBay: Manish Malhotra (Fashion Designer)
Google: Jhamu Sukand
I meant to say there is no comparison between above all except MICROSOFT and SUN.
Tommorrow u will say Rafi is like Raymonds,Bata, Tissot etc which will not be valid.
May 23rd, 2006 at 1:28 pm
Reason for writing again and again is my comments are awaiting since last couple of days. I don’t know why it is in awaiting state. Nway i am again copying the same things.
============================================
Manoj,
U r idiot and etiquetteless guy. FYI I am not in Bangalore.
Currently i am in Japan and basically from Delhi.
And I m not eager to see u or ur band because i’ve already visualized what kind of person u r. Just stop runing around bush, and compile ur song and post it to my mentioned mail address.
Before u said Rafi is like blah-blah, if u read all the mail then u will find that i wrote KK is Microsoft before u wrote the same for Rafi and still u don’t know that there is no comparison between “Microsoft, HP, IBM, Sun, Yahoo, eBay, and Google” as a whole, may be partly google has search Engine (ONLY), ebay is Ecommerce but as whole Microsoft is pioneer.
Boss, don’t get offended.
I have never been personal to u till now and i m asking u to follow the same etiqutte.
If u r involved in Yahoo band then u should aware that u could not miss KISHORE in any show but u can miss RAFI easily.
Boss i can also write like you if u don’t stop writing nonsense thing.
Manoj, As u said u r senior VP, nice to read it but disaapointed with ur sense/attitudes.
You should know that u don’t have rights to say ‘IDIOT’ or some nonsense thing to other.
I can also say the same thing to u but if i do so the same then there will not be any difference between u and me.
Hope u understand and behave nicely as a gentleman now onwards.
U can write anything on Rafi or KISHORE because it would be ur view not others.
Don’t get personal. It will be good for u, me and forum.
=========================================
This comment is just to tell you what i mean on “Microsoft, HP, IBM, Sun, Yahoo, eBay, and Google”.
As per their business, i am depicting the suitable personality who can be good in one or more fields (BUSINESS).
MICROSOFT: KISHORE KUMAR (Versatile- OS, Coding Tool, Office, and above all criticise by so called “knowledgable person”)
HP: MAHMOOD (Comedy acting, direction, production)
IBM: RAJ KAPOOR (Acting, Direction, Production, involded in all technical part)
SUN: MOHD. RAFI (Great in SInging, CLassical trained and great respect)
Yahoo: Amitabh (Acting, production, little bit singing)
eBay: Manish Malhotra (Fashion Designer)
Google: Jhamu Sukand
I meant to say there is no comparison between above all except MICROSOFT and SUN.
Tommorrow u will say Rafi is like Raymonds,Bata, Tissot etc which will not be valid.
May 24th, 2006 at 2:48 am
Hi Ashwani,
Till now, I used to be amused at you, but now I feel pity for you because you are such a loser!! Firstly, you destroyed the sanctity of a Rafi forum by being the first person in this entire thread to call Rafi as the second-best when all the Rafi fans and a lot of other people too know fully well that he is the greatest ever. You must be really stupid even to think that you will be able to sway a Rafi fan who knows music and understands the musical notes to ever believe that your KK is the best. I never go to your KK forums and write a post calling him the second-best because I have more class and etiquette than people like you. I know to respect people’s boundaries and spaces. If you want to encroach into my space, of course I will defend my space and shoo you away. I guess you are not even mature enough to understand that.
Your lack of any kind of class, cheapness, and lack of education is glaringly evident even in the way that you write. I haven’t mentioned it so far but your writing style and written communication skills are pathetic to say the very least, and it reflects on the kind of person you are and your lack of education and class. We all commit typographical errors especially when writing on informal forums like these, but it’s evident from your writing that your mistakes are not typos, but are just a sign of your lack of education. You can’t even spell “balloon” correctly, and I know it’s not a typo because you have used the word more than once and that you haven’t got it right even once!! Plus, what the hell is “etiquetteless”????? There isn’t a word like that…..you are such a fool!! Poor you….I can only pity and despise a despicable person like you. Plus, you are shameless and cheap to keep arguing with me that your KK is the best singer. Again, please don’t do it in a Rafi forum. I am just pushing back on you because this is a Rafi forum, and not the best place to fight for the supremacy of some other singer. And if I have to get a li’l personal in defending a forum dedicated to the greatest singer of our country, so be it!! Plus, I have no qualms in getting a bit personal. I have nothing to hide or be ashamed about since I am not illiterate, cheap, incorrigible, despicable like you. Again, I have absolutely nothing personal against you, but you are forcing me to expose your personality by being shamelessly persistent and argumentative.
May 24th, 2006 at 9:13 am
Manoj,
It is ur opinion abt me, u r free to do so.
And For ur information i am best person to judge myself. You are nothing.
I am not writing a letter to my boss or someone senior where i have to show my written skill.
You are free to write on my written skill which is pathetic according to you
but again i am telling, in all aspect/field, my knowledge is better than you. It has been proved in all blog, i know you can’t digest it 
You can ask any third person who doesn’t know much abt Hindi music, to read my blog on KK and RAFI, and you are right person to do so because you are in Bangalore. Don’t ask him abt my written skill, ask him abt my thought because we are in this forum to express our thought. It will open ur eyes.
Again and again you are proving tha you have pathetic knowledge on all topic and “etiquetteless”, For your information, i have invented this word especially for you, It means you are “shameless person who can go at any extent to prove himself right”.
Pls. save ur energy to prove RAFI greatest instead of wasting on me.
Hope you understood it.
May 24th, 2006 at 9:29 am
Manoj,
There is no points in finding my weakness. I am doing best in my skill/domain and people know and admire me very well.
Please don’t share your childish opinion abt me.
I have enough information on KK and Rafi and after joining this forum i thought i will get more info on him and i can write more abt KK but you (ONLY YOU) are getting very personal which shows your background.
I come to the conclusion that there is no point in responding your comments hereafter because you are like a HORSE who just run in one direction without knowing the destination.
Please don’t mind it. You are forcing me to write this.
May 24th, 2006 at 11:00 pm
Ashwani,
Shame on you…..you talk, speak, and write like an eight-year old. Your incompetence and cheapness is glaringly evident in the way you write. You need to go to some decent school and get some education. I have come across, met, and competed against thousands of stupid ignoramuses like you and they all know by where they stand now. You just have a big mouth, but it’s very obvious from your writing style itself that you are one really cheap and low-standard person, and you stand totally exposed!!
All you have done is name some Rafi-KK songs and have claimed like an idiot that KK sounds better in those songs. Of course, you a die-hard KK fan with cheap tastes and you will like him better. It’s something very subjective, and I have not felt that KK has ever in his life sounded better just because he had a much inferior voice than Rafi. Beyond that, even though I have been exposed to more songs than a moron like you, I don’t need to mention a list of songs….you idiot!! I can list thousands of songs if I want to, but I am mature enough to know that there is no need when I know the difference between the Greatest Rafi & Ordinary Kishore is humongous!! You think you know music only because you have listed some common songs which everybody has heard. I am singer myself, play 3 instruments pretty well, and understand the nuances of music unlike cheap and scummy people like you. We will talk next after you have been to some decent school and got some education. Just having a big mouth is not going to get you anywhere because you will be exposed in front of people who are educated and have substance. Also acquire at least some semblance of class, learn how to write and communicate, and if possible also learn to sing and play some instruments. After you have done all that, then only you even get the right to critique the GREATEST Rafi-Saheb.
May 25th, 2006 at 9:31 am
Ashwani,
A couple other things:
1) I hope that you have gone through the links that I sent you where you can see the quotes of Udit Narayan, Sonu Nigam, Manna Dey etc. Unlike you, I have provided some concrete evidence that people who are accomplished in music hail Rafi as the greatest ever. Mind you, these are just a few of the numerous people in the music world who believe that Rafi is/was the best ever. All you get excited about is that Lata called your KK a “sampoorn kalaakar”
You moron….this was another of your several other irrelevant statements since she is not calling KK the greatest ever and we are only talking about the greatest singer. I guess you can’t understand the meaning of statements and their implications with that little brain of yours. Instances like these just go to show the magnitude of your immaturity.
2) Secondly, I wanted to quickly address your point that your posts have been pathetically written because you know that you are not writing to your boss or your senior. I totally understand that these kind of forums are informal and I give everything that benefit of doubt. I am leading a division with a few hundred people under me. So I am also extremely busy with my work and life activties, and have very li’l time in my daily time to surf the internet and write on forums like these. All my posts have been written up within a couple of minutes. The point I am trying to send across to you is that we all commit typographical and slight grammatical errors especially when writing on informal forums like these, and I understand that fact. The difference with you is that you make it crystal clear from your writing that your mistakes are not typos, but are just a sign of your lack of education and poor understanding of the language. You make it very evident from your mistakes that they are not stemming from the fact that you are writing in an informal forum, but that you just don’t know anything at all!!!!! Instead of arguing with me, you need to get some real education.
May 25th, 2006 at 10:20 am
Manoj,
It is good that you know music and you play few instruments. Does it means that you know everything.
sad.
I can see fire under your ***. I know KISHORE is much-much better than Rafi in all aspect and i don’t want your opinion on this. And nobody can stop me saying so, you “IDIOT”.
Manoj, Again and again you are displaying pettiness by saying “IDIOT” first.
I thought not to respond ur blog but after reading ur comments, i decided to offer heartfelt suggestion to you.
Don’t waste your time in finding flaw in me and pls pls. pls.. join some classes which will help you to get mature as good human being.
Anyway God bless you.
May 25th, 2006 at 9:32 pm
Ashwani,
You have made it crystal clear that you are such an immature, uneducated, illiterate, pathetic, and low-standard person. I wrote what I wrote just to teach you a few lessons since you are such a stubborn soul despite all your apparent flaws. I don’t regret anything I have said at all. I have seen a lot of life and know very well what I am doing
Ashwani…it’s the worst combination to be so weak and be stubborn at the same time, and unfortunately you are just that. If you want to take any learning from this experience, just do some self-introspection and try to improve in the many areas that you are so deficient in. Believe me, it will do you a lot of good in life and in your career. God bless you!!!
May 26th, 2006 at 11:59 am
Manoj,
I know where i am standing and fyi I am doing great in my field. Pls. try to get mature as good human being and don’t dither to admire others thought and likes.
:)
God bless you.
ashwani
June 2nd, 2006 at 2:11 pm
Hi Ashwani,
I couldn’t respond to your message earlier as I was on a business trip. Anyways, you are again just blabbering like a 4-year mentally challenged child, and you should realize that’s it is you who lacks any maturity, education, and class. Don’t worry about me at all. I have no intentions of blowing my own trumpet, but let me just give you a reality check that one doesn’t become a head of a 400-people division of one of the biggest internet companies around if one is not mature enough or if one doesn’t understand other people’s likes and tastes. So, don’t waste your time trying to criticize me just because you are feeling hurt. You know that I treated you like I did only because I wanted to teach you a lesson, and the lesson is that you are too incompetent, illiterate, and immature to even critique singers like Rafi. I did what I did intentionally because you deserved the treatment. You will learn! At least, I hope for your sake and your career’s sake that you do.
Cheers
Manoj
June 5th, 2006 at 4:13 am
Having read most of the debate above, I feel somewhat compelled to reply.
For those comparing Rafi sahab with Kishore ! get a life, it is like comparing a nursery entrant (kishore) with a Harvard graduate.
I have read lots of articles to date where people compare Rafi sahab to a number of singers. Firstly when a comparison is made, the rules of comparison should be set out. In the case of Rafi v Kishore it is obvious that we are comparing the playback singing.
For playback singing amongst the normal singing skills one must also have a voice that can transform to match the personality of the actor on the screen. Kishore had a natuarly jolly voice, Mukesh had a naturally sad voice and therefore they struggled to sing sad and jolly songs respectively. Rafi on the other hand had a very neutral voice that became intensely sad at will and extremely jolly in an instance.
The other main thing with playback singing is the ability of the singer o “act”, just as the actor uses his/her facial expressions to deliver an emotion, a playback singe needs to do the same with his voice, having being listening to Rafi for years, I still often forget that it is him singing, meaning that there is a singer behind the voice. Kishore does manage that in some songs, however I would struggle to count past the fingers on my first hand.
You know the thing that tops it all is that if you ever have the good fortune of seeing Rafi sing live, what you see defies what you hear. Seeing him sing O Dunye ke Rakhwalay, with out breaking a sweat in fact with more ease than most of us have in talking leave me to simply conclude in my mind, that he was God gifted period.
Now here is something I know very few (in fact I have never heard this mentioned before) may know. Pick a Rafi song at random, listen to it and try and find the end of the verse. You will find that Rafi’s voice naturally fades away and it is really hard to judge when, as it simply blends into silence; unless off-course the song demands for there to be a sudden end to the note.
The bottom line, anyone comparing another singer to Rafi is in my opinion a Novice, whosoever that maybe.
Regards
Umar
June 5th, 2006 at 1:30 pm
Manoj,
Heading 400 people doesn’t mean you are good. There are non-deseved people who lead the company and they made ompany to struggle to pick up the same position. There r many company and many people like you had succeded to do so.
I am not mentioning the company name but i am sure you must be knowing them as you are in YAHOO.
Manoj, I ‘ve never critized you personally first, It was you who started this immature talk.
I never bother abt u and why should I
Manoj, You are head of 400 people but still working under somebody. FYI i am owning a company and its doing great since last 8 yrs.
God Bless You.
June 5th, 2006 at 1:46 pm
Umar,
Nice to read abt ur opinion abt Rafi and KK. As you said pick Rafi songs randomnly so i picked up few songs as follows and comparing the same style songs sung by KISHORE:
R1. RaamLaal Murdabad ..(Pyaar Kiye Jaa) …Pathetic ………JoLLY Rafi
K1: Le Jaayenge-2 dilwale dulhaniya.. (Chor Machaye Shor) ….Jolly KISHORE
R1: Chhal Kaye Jaam..(MERE HUMDUM MERE DOST)….Drunk Rafi …Fabulous
K1: Chingri Koi Bhadake (AMAR PREM)…. Drunk KISHORE …. Fabulous
R1: Wadiya Mera Daaman..(ABHILASHA)…..Romantic Rafi ….Great
K1: Kehna Hai Kehna Hai..(PADOSAN)….Romantic KISHORE ….Great
R1: Babul Ki duaye leti ja ..(Neel Kamal) … Sad Rafi …Great
K1: Babul ka ye ghar Gori….(DAATA) ….. Sad KISHORE …Great
Umar, I have compared almost all styles of songs picturise in Hindi Cinema except Classical(Rafi has edge over KISHORE) and Yoodling(KISHORE has edge over Rafi)
I like to hear both legends but i am more inclined to KISHORE as he touches my heart more. According to me both are not comparable and if someone tries to do so they are really novice.
Regards
June 5th, 2006 at 7:06 pm
Dear Ashwani,
I persoally feel that u have started the thread by hurting all Rafi fans by mentioning that k.k is ahead of Rafi which is biased n uncalled for in this excellent website of the greatest singing legend late Rafi.
You have quoted some comparisons of both the singers songs selectively but i urge u to listen to the MELODIES N CLASSICS OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF MUSIC FROM 1950 TO 1980 U WILL FIND THAT IN THE MALE SINGING CATEGORY RAFI DOMINATED FOR 25YRS N KISHORE DOMINATED FOR 5 YRS IN THE EARLY 70s.Please listen to THE GOLDEN MUSIC DIRECTORS WHO ARE THE DOYENS OF MUSIC WHICH I HAVE ANALYSED FOR U.
NAUSHAD PREFERRED RAFI AFTER TALAT
SHANKER JAIKISHEN OUT OF 357 FILMS RAFI HAS SUNG IN 161 FILMS INSPITE OF RAJKAPOOR MUKESH N MANNA DEY MAGIC
MADAN MOHAN RAFI HAS SUNG THE MAX SOLOS OF THIS LEGEND IN MALE PLAY BACK.
O.P.NAYYAR TOTALLY DOMINATED BY RAFI
S.D BURMAN RAFI N KISHORE SHARE THE SPOILS FOLLOWED BY HEMANT KUMAR
LAKSHMIKANT PYARLELAL PREFERRED RAFI FOLLOWED BY KISHORE
KALYANJI ANANDJI RAFI N KISHORE SHARES THE SPOILS FOLLOWED BY MUKESH N MAHENDRA KAPOOR
R.D.BURMAN PREFERRED KISHORE FOLLOWED BY RAFI.
If you consider all the above MDs as legends then statistically who is the most dominating singer out of the two. Pl infer unbiasedly.
Also when you hear lovely songs of RDB with Kishore do not compare them with some other songs. You have to listen to songs from Dulari, dosti, pyaasa,chuadavin ka chand,professor,basant bahaar, baiju bawra,kohinoor,haqeekat,aadmi,khilona,kala bazaar,naya daur,aarzoo,sasural,dil ek mandir etc and not to infer anything from the few songs of both the legends.
In my opinion I liked Tum bhin jaon kahaan of Rafi better than Kishore and also if I am not wrong Rafi s voice was picturised on the younger romantic hero Shashi kapoor and Kishore s voice was for the older Bharat bushan.
In the hit duet of Yaadon ki baraat I liked Rafi svoice over loud voice of Kishore. This is ture of song from Dostana and hence your personal choce should have been kept at the other forums.
There are many legends in the film industry say that Rafi is the greatest including Manna dey who had mentioned in the Blore radio city that all aspiring male singers consider Rafi as the idol n simillar to Lata in the female category.
For me like millions of fans Rafi sab who has been awarded by the Punjab govt as the singer of millenium is THE BEST WHO MAKES OUR HEART SING AND IT IS TRUE TUM MUJHE YOON BHULA NA PAAOGE…….
Regards n Love to u
Usha
June 5th, 2006 at 8:48 pm
Ashwani,
I repect your prefrence of Kishore, that’s fine as it is a matter of taste. I don’t think there is such a thing as bad or good taste we are all different.
However if you are trying to measure the quality/ability of a singer than comparing Rafi to Kishore is a fultile excercise.
You are right Kishore did yoodling better than Rafi, only because Rafi never attempted to yoodle, being a singer he must of thought it better to sing rather than yoodle to cover-up ones weeknesses in the singing arena.
So if yoodling is your yard-stick of measurement I think you are better looking at the newer generation of singers who have no tone, tune or ability but on a good day can yoodle better than Kishore.
I think the measure of Rafi’s ability can be estimated from the fact that great singers (and I do mean great) fail to sing his songs to the same level let alone better it, even though it should be easier to copy than to sing with no reference.
Regards
Umar
June 6th, 2006 at 2:44 pm
Dear Umar,
As you said Rafi never tried yoodling because he knew that he could not do. Pls. don’t justify his inability to yoodling but KISHORE attempted Semi-Classical songs. There are many.
Dear Usha, why you people are so biased toward Rafi. You remember that KISHORE sang for BHARAt BHUSHAN and Rafi sang for SHASHI KAPOOR, FYI KISHORE was tremendous according to me and many MDs. That was the first song when people started comparing RAFI with KISHORE.
I personally believe KISHORE sang 100 times better than RAFI, may be u differ.
OK, You remember KISHORE sang for older man in “PYAAR KA MOUSAM”, and I am 100% sure that u don’t remember RAFI sang for MEhMOOD’s father in KUNWARA BAAP and KISHORE sang for MEHMOOD. I am sure u don’t remember “DHARAMA” where KISHORE sang for NAVIN NISCHAl and RAFI sang for PRAN (played father of Navin Nischal).
Dear USHA, don’t get biased and try to get the real facts.
There is proven case study which shows KISHORE was greatest among all singers, Technically Rafi many great but noone can touch KISHORE.
It is like, sanjeev kumar who was much better actor than AMITABH but people remember AMITABH.
Thanx
June 7th, 2006 at 2:05 pm
Kishore is kishore. Kishore was simply magic. You can listen to kishore for hours together, but the same cannot be said about Rafi. For one to become a good musician, he or she does not need to learn classical music. What is needed is depth and pain, which kishore had in plenty. Kishore was a sheer genius and by comparing him to a mere mortal like rafi, you guys are doing great injustice.
June 7th, 2006 at 2:10 pm
Rafi fans clearly know that rafi cannot be compared to kishore simply beacuse kishore was in a league of his own. So when they(rafi fans) run out of arguments, they harp on the same string(rafi was trained and ishore untrained).
June 7th, 2006 at 2:12 pm
Friends, let accept the fact that kishore miles haed of rafi and rafi was second best. Kishore is god and a human being(rafi) cannot be compared to god.
June 7th, 2006 at 10:49 pm
I am a Mohd Rafi fan and all I will say is that I will not compare him with anyone else not even someone like Kishore because Rafi saab was GOD.
Khalid
June 8th, 2006 at 2:48 pm
Dear Raj,
You are 100% true, but Rafi fans will not understand it. Raj, very well said.
I spend my saturday and sunday with Only KISHORE whenever i m at home.
June 8th, 2006 at 3:51 pm
Its true that we cannot compare Rafi saab to Kishore because Rafi saab was the best full stop what else do you want me to say.
Khalid
June 8th, 2006 at 5:49 pm
Dear Khalid,
Only you people compare KISHORE with RAFI because you are not sure abt Rafi’s positionin front of KISHORE.
If you rememebr we are at RAFI dedicated site and we are talking abt KISHORE.
You can’t find the same thing at KISHORE dedicated site.
It shows KISHORE is far ahead of RAF
June 8th, 2006 at 9:22 pm
Dear Ashwini
I only compared him because you started comparing in the first place
You stick with your opinion and I will stick with mine.
Khalid
June 9th, 2006 at 3:43 am
Ashwani,
I wonder why you came to a Rafi fan website, I guess kishore fan sites and kishore songs did not fulfil your apetite.
The reason, why Rafi fans don’t go and compare Rafi with Kishore on those site is that we don’t need to.
It’s like once you know the truth (that Rafi is the bes) there is no need to go wondering elsewhere.
So there-in is proof itself, that in your own mind you are not convinced that kishore is the best and think that if you keep saying it, it may some how become fact.
So go back to your Kishore sites, and stay there, I am sure you will not be missed here
Umar
June 9th, 2006 at 9:56 am
Guys,
Here goes my opinion……….
Both are legends and both have their own era. Rafi dominated from 50s to 60s while KK dominated 70s and 80s.
I love listening to both. KK sang more popular songs with catchy tunes and he is more popular with current generation while Rafi sang wide variety of songs and technically he has edge over KK.
Let us not get into endless arguments on who is better. One should respect both equally. Personal favourites may be different and though I admire both KK and Rafi but I’m slightly tilted towards Rafi’s vocie…..don’t know why.
Happy listening.