The Rafi-Kishore saga
The following article appeared in The Statesman,Calcutta, on Aug.7 th 2005. It will give more food for thought to the ongoing debate about the Rafi personality and magic - Mohan Flora .
Mohd. Rafi was the greatest playback singer, asserts Ranjan Das Gupta as he pays tribute on the melody kings 25th death anniversary. Rafi was a classically trained singer while Kishore was naturally endowed with excellent resonance. The latter was a versatile genius, singer, music director, actor, writer and director all rolled into one. Both were proficient singers but had separate individual styles.
In the 1950s Rafi literally ruled the roost. He was the most favoured singer for veteran composers like Naushad, S.D. Burman, Shanker Jaikishan, Madan Mohan while Kishore was preferred by S.D. Burman and Salil Choudhury who was playback mainly for Dev Anand and his own films. Rafi on the other hand could balance his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
It is an astonishing fact that O.P. Nayar used Rafi to sing for Kishore Kumar the unforgettable tune Man Mora Bawra in Ragini in 1957. Shanker Jaikishan also had Rafi to sing Ajab Hai Dastan in Shararat in 1958. Says record museum owner Vinod Santhalia, It is simply amazing. Imagine Mohd. Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films Kishore himself acted.
Shanker Jaikishan commented, No doubt Kishore Kumar is a good singer. He sang beautifully for me in Rangoli. But Ajab Hai Dastan was simply not Kishores cup of tea. The mukhdas and antaras required a singer of Rafis range and classical background.
Although Kishore Kumar felt bad about this, he could only marvel at Rafis brilliant rendering of the two songs. Rafi characteristically remarked, No one else except Kishore could sing Dukhi Man Mera in Funtoosh so well.
Salil Choudhury was not favourably inclined towards Rafi at one point of time, but even he was compelled to use Rafi for the unforgettable Tootey Huey Khuabo Nay in Madhumati and Koi Soney Ke Dil Wala in Maya and confess that Rafi was indeed peerless.
It is generally known that Rafi and Kishore went through a bad patch in their relationship. Yet it is also true that both liked and respected each other. S.D. Burman openly admitted to Kishore that the three solos in Guide by Rafi could not be matched by any singer. On Dev Anands special request, he composed the Kishore-Lata super hit duet Gata Rahe Mera Dil for Guide. Similarly, Rafis numbers in Teen Deviyan and the haunting duet with Lata Mangeshkar in Jewel Thief were far superior to the Kishore numbers in these films.
In the late 60s when R.D. Burman composed the melody for Tum Bin Jaaun Kahan in Pyar Ka Mausam, he experimented the same solo with both Rafi and Kishore. True, Kishore sang this number by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. But in the romantic number, Rafi scored over Kishore in melody.
The 60s was also considered Rafis decade though Kishore matured considerably as a singer during this period. The Jungle Mein Mangal number Woh Din Ke Baat Sharan Karo had both Rafi and Kishore together but is somehow not remembered that well. But Shanker Jaikishans Hanste Gate Jahan Se Guzar in Andaz by Rafi quite eclipsed Kishores entire Zindagi Ek Safar in 1971.
Madan Mohan also used both Rafi and Kishore in the song Yu Na Sharma for Parwana in 1972. Kishore sang the happy rendition for hero Navin Nischal. But there was Rafi again to do full justice to the Are Hansnewale, the melancholic aspect of the same song for Amitabh Bachchan.
In the 1970s the Kishore Kumar wave took the Hindi film music by storm and was backed by R.D. Burman. Some critics felt R.D was partial to Kishore and avoided using Rafi. The Rafi Kishore duet Yaadon Ki Barat from the film with the same title in 1973 turned out to be a superhit. But it cannot be categorised either as an exclusive Rafi or a Kishore gem for both sang in perfect harmony.
Subsequently, R.D. Burman opted for Rafi again after four years as no other singer could have rendered so skillfully Chand Mera Dil and Kya Hua in Hum Kisi Se Kum Nahin; that too in a film with many Kishore Kumar superhits like Mil Gaya and Aa Meri Jaan.
When Rafi sang Darde Dil for Laxmikant Pyarelal in Karz in1980 based on a single note, he proved melody was indeed God-gifted to him, remembers upcoming singer Sujan Bose. Kishores Ay Mere Umar Ke and Ek Hasina Thi could not touch that level. The same can be said for Rajesh Roshan’s Yarana where Rafi’s Aare Re Aisa Tarana completely surpassed Kishore’s Sara Zamana and Tere Jaisa.
Mohd. Rafi left for his heavenly abode on 31 July, 25 years ago. Remembers author Nabaran Bhattacharya, The photo of a silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
As Kishore himself said when Jagjit Singh criticised the Rafi gharana, How dare these so-called ghazal singers criticise an icon that Manna Dey, Mukesh and I dare not criticise. Rafi was unique.
August 6th, 2006 at 12:33 pm
Dear friends- even when you yourself are the judge, it is good to hear what others in the same line of duty as Rafisaab say about the GURU!
What the best/darling hindi singer among the younger generation/modern guys had to say on Rafi’s recent death anniversary(around the time of his radio interview of Lataji)-I am talking about Sonu Nigam:
Sonu Nigam’s tribute to Rafi
SONU NIGAM:
“I think that it is pointless to even think of comparing any other singer, however great individually, to Rafisaab. My whole approach to him as an inspiration and guru is to match that dedication, infuse the same kind of range that he had, and consciously work at not being his clone, since I had grown up on Rafisaab and had the same kind of vocal tenor. Dig through the ocean that is Rafi and you find an unparalleled treasure of happy and sad songs, high-pitched songs and low crooning, and obviously every genre of song from bhajans, ghazals, qawwalis, Western rock numbers, lullabies, children’s songs - the works! He had a soft voice, but what a punch it had when needed!”
Click on this link to read more and hear Sonu’s selection of Rafi songs:
http://www.radiosargam.com/news/stories/july2006/030j.html
August 6th, 2006 at 2:44 am
Lata Mangeshkar once commented about Rafi Sahab: “Woh Har Tarah ke Gane is Khoobi se Gaate the ki Gaana Na Samajhne Wale bhi Wah Wah Kar Udthe the”. This is not a mere accolade for a colleague. She had observed and convinced about a rare quality in Rafi Sahab that makes him stand out among others. In order to explain this let me please take a listeners perspective. I mean our perspective.
An ordinary listener does not hear a song in isolated units. Rather, he/she perceives it in a larger pitch and rhythmic organization. In other words, the listener perceives it in “whole”. However, a musicians approach is different, for he can perceive it analytically – I mean, he can mentally de-compose the song into its elementary components. This, however, requires knowledge of music and its composition. The music composer normally organizes the music in a systematic way based on many complex features of music and textures it with contextual lyrics (these days, lyrics is the skeleton). At this stage the song is a compact structure and accessible only to music specialists. It comes to the ordinary listener through the singers’ voice. The singer first understands the structured information in the song. It is at this point that the real difference between a trained and untrained singer comes up. An untrained singer cannot fully grasp the structure. Now, a trained singer, who has grasped the essentials, can render it with all the complexities packed in the song, for e.g., renditions by most of the Ustads. The listeners perceive it with awe. A singer like Rafi Sahab, who apart from understanding the complexity of the song, renders it with that simplicity that he makes the musical structure explicit even to the musically illiterate listeners (like Nair). A few examples of such complex songs rendered with simplicity are songs like “Aye Gulbadan”, “Suhani Raat Dhal Chuki”, “Ehsaan Tera Hoga Mujh Par”, “Tu Hi Who Haseen Hai”, “Mujhe Tum Se Mohabat Hai”, Jis Raat Ke Khwaab Aayee” etc. Rafi Sahab exposes every molecule of the song explicit that the listener understands and appreciates the structured auditory information. This simplicity of Rafi Sahab also enables the listener to recall the lyrics and associate it with a socio-cultural context in which the song is played. Now the listener, who has seen the wonderland of music, which was alien to him till then, in delight, says “Wah Wah”. Rafi Sahab in his renditions takes care of the interdependencies between the structured sound material of the music and the listener’s capacity for apprehending. To acquire this quality the singer needs to be disciplined, organized, pious, humble, and above all trained in music; it’s a tapasya.
It is this quality of Rafi Sahab that Lata Ji has praised.
Most of the Rafi fans are those who have experienced this feeling. It needs some effort from the part of the listener as well; no matter his/her musical knowledge. Only those who fail in this effort will say Rafi Sahab is inferior.
Rafi fans are calling him God of music not out of emotion or blind devotion; it is with proper understanding of the divinity inherent in his voice.
Long Live Rafi Sahab!
August 5th, 2006 at 10:33 pm
The accusation that Rafi cannot raise his pitch the to “tivra nishadam” is baseless. Tivra nishadam is normally a feminine position because it makes the voice to taper to the extreme. Rafi Sahab is a master in this, say for example, in a live concert (available online) in “Oh Duniya Ke Rakh Wale”; please listen to “Mehal Udaas aur Galiyaan Sooni” how the voice climbs to tivra Nishadam just through “Sooni”; a person even ignorant of acoustics can realize each and every step the voice climbs. Feminine voice, due to its softness, normally dissolves in tivra nishadam. Rafi Sahab’s comfort at tivra nishadam is so high that he can immediately descend (sudden drop in pitch) to shadjam (Yesudas has emphasized this power of Rafi many times). Tivra swaras cannot be simply used in recording rooms, unless the music director demans. LP demanded in “Nafrat Ki Duniya” from which Kishore had to run away. Certainly, Lata Mangeshkar is also adept in the art of tivra swaras (also Manndey); but why mention it in a forum where Rafi Sahab is (unfortunately) compared with a singer who can’t even sing in komala nishadam with comfort.
August 5th, 2006 at 9:40 pm
Kishore certainly has an over Rafi with his yodlling. Rafians I am dare enough to accuse you brushing aside this point.
REMEMBER: Don’t overlook your Rafi’s weakpoints. They will chase you and defeat you.
Big B had set his foot then. Rafi did sing some numbers for him. They were tipical Rafi type. But Big B personality demanded a much more a voice with guts and manlihood. Did Kishore not meet the demands?
August 5th, 2006 at 9:28 pm
This is Roger Federer. Kishore Kumars yodlling has come under criticism of late. Akka Akka Billi Blii also. Tell me Rafians as choose to call yourself, Do you think Rafi could have brought the same magik to ‘ zindagi ke safar hia suhana’. Is yodlling not a unique feature in that song.
Remember, I am not an illiterate in music. I have completed my junior in Karnatic music and am preparing for my senior exam.
August 5th, 2006 at 8:26 pm
Hello Friends!
I am trying to stay away from this debate, as I realize the futility in debating with Kishore fans. They have nothing new or creative to say. The whole thing has turned so uninteresting. Why should I waste my time? I know that Rafi Sahab is the best. It is as true as the spherical shape of the earth. Kishore fans who deny this fact resemble those Mesopotamians who asserted that earth is flat; they shouted, tried to refute, and rebuffed the rotundity of earth. But all the time it kept on rotating. Likewise, Rafi Sahab’s greatness shines as ever as it was before and forever, even when Kishore fans (or an omnipresent multi-pseudonymous fan) keep on drying their throats.
Regards
Nair
August 5th, 2006 at 2:34 pm
bk loves mohdrafi . hi i am monu i have changed my identity i hate avi
August 5th, 2006 at 10:54 am
hi monu,
I totally agree with you I saw some photos of KK in which he was wearing a saree and had done all make-up like a lady would do .. he was just looking like a HIJADA…..
This shows KK had a unstable nature he was not sure of what he was doing … He married 4 times … He married 4th Time to LEENA CHANDAVARKAR in 1980 when AMIT KUMAR was ready for marriage ….
BAAP AUR BETE KI SHAADI EK HI MANDAP MEIN HUI …..
Isn’t that a funny stroke … KK fans are happy that MANNA , ABHIJEET , KUMAR SANU , SHAAN said that KK like singer never born again on EARTH… Actually they are right GOD has made one mistake he will never repeat his mistake again…..
1 KK is enough as a comdey of errors ……… KK fans so what are you thinking did anyone went to KHANDWA ……
August 5th, 2006 at 8:30 am
Dear avi,
As your obsession with KK bounds and leaps, here is a list of other singers August born. The writer of the Article, in the latest Screen Weekly, should be penalised for not mentioning KK at all!
The ‘August’ Company
R V
Posted online: Friday, August 04, 2006 at 0000 hours IST
Female singers seem to dominate the birthday month of August in musicdom. The month begins with Sharon Prabhakar (4th), whose only claim to film fame despite her acknowledged talent is ‘Mere jaisi haseena…’ from Armaan (1981).
Female singers seem to dominate the birthday month of August in musicdom. The month begins with Sharon Prabhakar (4th), whose only claim to film fame despite her acknowledged talent is ‘Mere jaisi haseena…’ from Armaan (1981). Sadly, none of her other songs (in films as varied as Shashi Kapoor’s Junoon and Harmesh Malhotra’s Mangal Pandey apart from many others) made waves.
While Sharon is also a stage actor, Sulakshana Pandit (9th) could neither focus on acting (which she began with Uljhan after a cameo in Sankalp) nor on singing when she attempted to be a singing star.
Nevertheless she managed several hits as a star and as a singer for herself (‘Somwar ko hum mile…’/Apnapan) and other actors like Padmini Kolhapure (Ahista Ahista) and Tanuja (the hit ‘Beqaraar dil…’ from Door Ka Rahi) after a stint as child-singer from the 1967 Rajshri film Taqdeer.
Sunidhi Chauhan (4th), arguably today’s most versatile female voice, is forever exploring new vocal vistas, while Sulakshana’s cousin Hemlata (16th) has had an array of hits, especially in Ravindra Jain’s heyday (Chitchor, Dulhan Wohi Jo Piya Man Bhaaye) apart from her other hits ‘Dus paise mein Ram le lo…’(Ek Phool Ek Bhool) and ‘Chanda ko dhoondne sabhi… (Jeene Ki Raah).
Daler Mehndi (6th), leader of the bhangra-pop genre, made many forays into films with songs in Mrityudaata, Khauff, Shaadi Se Pehle and Chupke Se…, but the cult song remains the recent Rang De Basanti title-track. Sharing his birthday is Aditya Narayan, Udit Narayan’s talented son who sang in films like Rangeela and Akele Hum Akele Tum besides the hit song ‘Chhota baccha samajh ke…’ in the 1996 Masoom.
Suresh Wadkar (7th), that redoubtable singer who never got his due in Hindi films (his latest song is the placid ‘Jag ja…’ from Omkara), nevertheless had his golden period with some amazing work in Paheli (1978),Krodhi, Pyaasa Sawan, Prem Rog, Ram Teri Ganga Maili, Henna, Chandni, Imaandaar, Sangeet, Utsav and many others.
Vijay Benedict (19th) had his moment of fame in the Disco Dancer era of Bappi Lahiri.
Saawan Kumar (9th) and Gulzar (18th) - note how the two lyric writers of this month are also scriptwriters and filmmakers. Interestingly enough, both fell in love with respected ladies from within the industry - Usha Khanna and Raakhee - respectively. But contrastingly, Saawan has written lyrics rarely for other directors, notably Kaho Naa…Pyaar Hai, while Gulzar continues to be in excellent tuning with six generations of filmmakers from Bimal Roy to Shaad Ali.
Vishal Bhardwaj (4th), music director who has dabbled in lyric writing, playback singing, non-film albums and writing and directing TV serials and now motion pictures, has shown his distinct individuality in all these areas. As a music maker he has shone in Maachis and Satya. As a filmmaker, Makdee and Maqbool brought him rave reviews. He is all set, perhaps, to get acclaim simultaneously on both fronts for Omkara.
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August 5th, 2006 at 7:01 am
Dear Friends,
Best wishes to all all for KK’s birth anniversary and related TV programs etc. as per avi.
In a tribute to Mohammed Rafi, Soorya Krishnamoorthy is presenting Pranamam, in association with Kairali TV, in London, Dubai and other parts of the world. Here is a clip from his interview :
What is your message through Pranamam?
The theme or message of Pranamam is the significance of Rafi’s hit song Duniya Ke Rekhuvale in the present world scenario where the concept of human beings is lost. The circumstances when he wrote this song is entirely different when compared to today’s times. I am giving this song a different dimension through my programme Pranamam.
He has sung this song 52 years back looking at a Hindu deity. In the present days it would be impossible for a Muslim to sing such a song looking at a Hindu deity. Therefore, the message of communal harmony is the underlying factor in this song and the programme.
What is the greatness you saw in Mohammed Rafi? Greatness is inborn or is it inherited?
Mohammed Rafi’s greatness lies in the way he approached the 26,000 songs he sang during his life. For the way he put his heart and soul into each song he sang. It is not the number, which counted but for the tremendous range and quality with which he sang all these songs. That is why he is immortal and great. Greatness is a combination of both. It is inborn and at the same time inherited too.
Hard work is required to become great. However, everybody those who do hard work need not become great. That is a blessing of God. I believe that many greats are born again to complete what they did in their first life. That is why many great people do not have a long life and they have died young. Mohammed Rafi did not have a long life. Sri Krishna, Sankaracharyar and many others had a short span only.
How do you plan to pass on this message to your audience?
Each and every line of this song has very important meanings and this three-and-a-half minute song is turned into a symphony. This symphony is transformed into visual symphony, which is not very easy. We are combining cinema, stage, music, dance, light and special effects, a new technique on stage, which I believe so far no one has ever tried. It is presented through an ensemble of classical dances of Bharatanatyam/Kathak, Carnatic/Hindustani vocals and instrumental music fusion.
August 5th, 2006 at 5:34 am
Avi,
What’s the big deal about telecast of KK program? As music lovers, we feel nice about it. Don’t act like a child like you have got the chocolate and others have not.
August 4th, 2006 at 11:59 pm
Hi Rafians,
Today is Kishore Da’s 77th Birth anniversary.
Today there was 1/2 hr. program telecast on almost all news channels like AAj TAK, NDTV and Star News.
StarNews telecast VISHESH program on Genious at 9:30pm today.
I am sure Rafians will not be happy to read it but it is true. It was live program not published in any web site.
This 1/2 hr. included chat with Jagjeet Singh, Manna Dey, Abhijit, AMit Kumar, Shaan, Babul Supriyo.
Everybody said Kishore like genious never born on this earth again.
Manna Da recollected his recording with KISHORE during “EK CHatur Nari”. he praised Kishore by saying that this person could do anything, he was very innovative. Many great things he spoke abt Kishore.
This was live telecast in STAR NEWS at 9:30pm on 4thAUg’06.
Sorry Guys…..
Dear Anmol,
There was song in “UPKAAR” ..”KASME VADE PYAAR WAFA SAB…” picturised on PRAN. First. KA went to Kishore to sing this songs. As soon as he came to know that KA came to sign him for some song, he said he had already stopped singing.
He always praised Rafi. I am putting few incident where he said let Rafi sung this songs because he knows noone can sing except KISHORE, himself. I can give 2 examples:
1. QAWAALi cum Mujra from Dushman
Kishore asked Pyarelal, let Rafi sing this song but pyarelal shown confident in him and everyone knows the result. Kishore’s energy in this song is matchless.
2. Saalam-e-Ishq meri Jaan from “MUQADDAR KA SIKANDAR”
Again he said Let Rafi sing the song but Anadji insited that Kishore only sing this song and everyone know the result. Personally i feel Kishore lateral entry in the song i sfabulous. I feel He sang better than LATA.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, KISHOREDA.
Thanx
August 4th, 2006 at 8:49 pm
Due to abuse of comments by cloak IDs, users from now on must be logged to comment in all the articles.
August 4th, 2006 at 6:41 pm
Hi Avi,
When we give rebute to KK you are not satisfied stating “Anmol, good to know KK did nothing”.
When we analyszed KK with other singers you said “Anmol is not a music lover but definately a KK hater”.
When we praise KK’s singing skills with reference to his songs, then at least your collegue Shankar is a bit satisfied, but still says that KK is a spontaneous singer, no one can sing “Mein Hon Jhaumru”. There also we have clarified speed is not an issue to any trained singer.
Then you are insisting the KK is a genious composer. Again through fair analysis we specifically analyzed KK with music composers who also singers. It was found all were better then KK.
Then your collegue Shankar brings this so called joker Rajan Parrikar into picture. We have told him let Rajan himself come in the forum we will answer him. But he is insisting for the all the answer for his posts, so to satisfy his ego we have clarified every thing.
Again you answer on his behalf that KK should have been nominated for “Door Gagan Ke Chaun Mein”, in others word you cannot digest the reality.
Unlike many KK fans except for Prashant Veer, including Rajan Parrikar write the training can be attained by any one so singing songs of Baiju Bawra is no big deal, but what KK is doing that is difficult to reproduce. Actually it is the vise versa, that also we have proved it.
Then we have taken up the issue whether kk’s success criteria is personality dependent, though he sings for many actors. But the fact is that he sings mainly for famous actors, this is right from 1950s, we have found an evidence to support this theory.
The song “Chal Re Sajni” from Bombai Ka Babu was originally given to KK, which he rejected saying it is not picturized on Dev Anand. So Mukesh had to sing it, which SD Burman didn’t like it.
http://www.singermukesh.com/articles_files/raju2.htm
Every now and then we have found though KK is a great singer but there are many limitations in him compared to Rafi, plus we have proved why Rafi is the best. But you people don’t seem to accept the facts.
We would like ask you and all KK fans what is it that you want? You wanted praises of KK, tribute, declared him Legend we have given every thing.
August 4th, 2006 at 6:13 pm
we want to pay respect to rafi sahab we dont want to insult him by idots such as avi and shanker .fine if u love kk but make ur own site and pay that guy tribute . he was a bad singer what do u mean if a person starts singing gilli gilli akka billi billi this makes no sence a 3rd grade singer with a 3rd grade voice
August 4th, 2006 at 5:59 pm
Happy birth day to KK
http://www.yoodleeyoo.com/web/singing-semifinals-held-by-kishore-memorial-society.html
August 4th, 2006 at 5:48 pm
avi let me make this clear boy i abused u sorry if you are hurted i have already said sorry to anmol .but u stop barking about rafi sahebs songs .please please i get hurt if u insult rafi saheb u are puting a clear blanket over ur suggestions about rafi saheb by saying that ur his fan …………………………………….. if this is true then read statements written by roger fedrer ( a person who abused rafi in this site ) and ask urself if u support him . if yes then sorry to say that ur not a rafi fan
August 4th, 2006 at 12:49 pm
Dear Suhail,
You should understand first, I critise Rafi’s songs not Rafi. You should know this. Tell me when i used dirty word for Rafi. I have written dirty word in reply to SAAGAR comments, pls. go through all blog from begining.
This page name is RAFI_KISHORE_SAGA, I have seen many nonsense comments by Rafians against Kishore which you people were really enjoyed, but now you are raising the issue because i am writing in favor of kishore.
Please see blogs from manu, Saagar and many others.
I am assuring you that i will not visit this site again if the Page caption will change. .
And Boss, i can’t change ur view and u can’t change my view.
Last but not least, I am great fan of Rafi also. No need to prove it to you.
August 4th, 2006 at 10:18 am
Yes Avi, you should leave this site. You are only guest over here. Please remember this is Rafi Saheb site and it is only meant for Rafi Saheb fans. You can write your views but you should never criticise him. If you have any jealousy with Rafi Saheb you should share this with KK fans in KK site. How dare you use dirty languages. And why do you think that you should convince us to believe that there are many good singers apart from Rafi Saheb. We know there are many good singers but not good than Rafi Saheb. And why should we listen to any other singers. We are Rafi Saheb fans and hence we are listening to his songs. But we are not critising other singers like you. We are Rafi fans and hence we are in Rafi Saheb site you are KK fans you should go to KK site. O.K.
August 4th, 2006 at 8:51 am
Dear Ammad,
Answer to ur questions:
Q: “why did a big deal of music faternity concluded rafi as the best male singer ever”
A: My dear friend, No MDs can say that Rafi is the best or Kishore is the best but they have their own favorite. Recently i saw Naushad interview and in reply to ur question, he said he enjoyed working with Rafi, Mukesh and Talat.
Q: “do u think that u know music better than Great Manaday.”
A: NO. NEVER. I don’t know music but i listen to my heart. They are millions ofpeople who also listen from heart.
Dear Ali,
I am agree with you except highlighted line as you said “THEY SHOULD GIVE AWARD TO OTHER IN THE NAME MOHD RAFI NOT TO MOHD RAFI,
MOHD RAFI IS BIGGER THAN ANY AWARD”
Dear Monu,
I think u have taken over all worst quality from SAAGAR. Keep it up. Your words are telling everythign abt u…
In short.. U r really not only idiot (not ediots) but also Illiterate. You abused Anmol, He is Rafi’s supporter and i am too. Stop Barking.
August 4th, 2006 at 2:16 am
what i say to anmol singh,
Query - “How do we evaluate KK compositions are of high quality? There is no single nomination for his work as a composer. The detailed analysis we have already done.”
Ans - the fact that many music fans still hum songs like “aa chal ke tujhe”, “koi lauta de mere”, “koi humdum na raha”, “matwale hum matwale tum”, “beqarar-e-dil” etc. prove this. we don’t need any other proof.
Query - “KK doesn’t fullfill the requirments of majority music composers as a singer, so he is left with no choice but to do some thing of his own. Any professional singer will never question a music composers work, he/she is supposed to sing the song the way it is to be sung. Rafi / Lata are ahead of every one here. This also has been discussed.”
Ans - You are wrong again here. If you’ll remember i had once posted links to two songs of kk sung for anil biswas and khemchand prakash. songs were “husn bhi hai udhas udhas” from “fareb” in 1952 whose music is by anil biswas, and “jagmag jagmag karta nikla chand” for khemchand prakash. listen to those songs. they required total control over sur and are not easy to sing. kk sang them when he was very young and his voice was still raw. anil biswas was a very strict composer (lata herself said this that when she was new and he was a famous composer, she was scared because he was very strict and particular about the rendition being perfect to his liking).
Query - “KK voice is not a classic baritone, it is Hemant Kumar to be more precise. Any singer who can sing High pitch songs with comfort, singing in any scale is not an issue for them. Since KK was an untrained singer, he was not comfortable with high pitch operation, but he had the capability. This has been explained by Prashant.”
Ans - hemant kumar also had a good bass in his voice but he didn’t have as much as kk. can you picture hemant kumar singing for amitabh ? no because he wouldn’t have had the necessary bass or baritone.
Query - “SDB gave him only easy numbers to sing, Salil C was never comfortable with KK except for one song in Mere Apne. Same is the case with most MDs for 50s and 60s.”
Ans - this shows that you don’t know much about kk’s early career. before sdb came along, kk sang for khemchand prakash, anil biswas, husnlal-bhagatram etc. who gave him tough songs to sing. pls listen to “marne ki duaen kyon mangoon”, “husn bhi hai udhas udhas”, “aa mohabbat ki basti”, “jagmag jagmag karta nikla chand”. they were not at all easy songs to sing. kk sang like mukesh, talat in those songs with awesome control. it was sdb who took him away from there and gave him light songs. But even sdb gave him a good duet song in “woh dekhe to unki inaayat” from “funtoosh”. it’s not a light song by any means. how about “paayalwali dekhna” ? it’s not a light song but kk showed perfect control there.
Query - “Most trained singers fail when they try to replicate classical numbers sung by Manna Day, Rafi or Lata, because following the discipline in classical singing apart from talent is not part of everyone’s personilty and body language. It was God gifted to Rafi, Manna Dey, Lata, Asha, Mahendra K, Mukesh, Talat. But KK fails here miserably, therefore couldn’t contribute much in the first 2 decades.”
Ans- wrong again. if i ask bhimsen joshi to sing all the classical songs by those singers, he will sing them better than them even in his sleep. if u’ll see my other post, u’ll see how a knowledgeable guy criticized rafi’s rendition of “man tarpat hari darshan”. in fact, in baiju bawra, there was a duet sung by rafi and ustad amir khan in which the difference in class was very obvious. sonu nigam sang all of rafi’s songs exactly like rafi technically (though his voice is nowhere near rafi’s class). it’s clear how much u underestimate kk’s capabilities as a singer. because u haven’t heard kk’s rarer songs, u think he’s not good for classical songs in his early career.
Query - “This point has also been discussed eailer. KK compensates his high pitch operation with yoodel.”
Ans - i wonder how rafi would compensate for his low pitch operation if he’s asked to sing as low as kk does in “panthi hoon main is path ka”, “koi hota jisko apna”, “pyaar hamein kis mod pe le aaya” etc. it’s just a voice characteristic. if rafi is so talented, why doesn’t he contribute something of his own to songs ? because he doesn’t have the natural musical gift. he’s just a trained singer without the soul of a genius.
Query - “Certianly for doing Yoodleing and comical things in singing, one doesn’t need training. Any professional mimickry artist of the calibre of Sudesh Bhonsle will easily replicate KK’s yoodeling and comical stuff without any difficulty.”
Ans - well, you just said that a trained singer should be able to sing any type of song. so i wonder why, apart from sudesh bhosle, nobody can yodel like kk. forget that, rafi never showed the control that kk had even in songs like “aake seedhi lagi dil pe” from “half ticket”. can you try to change ur voice to female voice and then back to ur own voice in the middle of the song ? can u do it very fast ? people like you who cannot do it give excuses like “it’s not a classical song” or “it’s a stupid song” etc. basically, your ego prevents you from admitting that it’s difficult.
Query - “If a singer or a composer is saying so then he/she is questioning Naushad’s work. Many such singers might have asked Naushad for such adjustments, no wonder Naushad gave majority of his compositions to Rafi. Rafi will sing anything the way it is given to him. Plus the song is remembered till date.”
Ans - manna dey could’ve sung it better. the only reason why naushad gave it to rafi is bcos rafi’s voice is much better than manna dey’s. the song is remembered to this date because of the excellence of the composition, not just because of rafi’s singing. even if talat had sung that song, it would’ve been a hit.
Query - “KK certainly had the classical base, but not the discipline to follow it like other singers. Every thing while singing a song has to be done is tune, whether it a small commmet/conversation or a laughter or as a matter of fact any thing. Yodel is no big deal as such.”
Ans - can you do it if it’s no big deal ? can you do all the sounds that kk makes in “main hoon jhumroo” if it’s “no big deal as such” ? u can’t. but u don’t like to admit it and so u say it’s “just noise” or “cheap”.
August 4th, 2006 at 12:28 am
Dear Sagar,
I DON’T THINK THAT IS GOOD NEWS MOHD RAFI HAS BEEN FINALLY NOMINATED FOR( BHARAT RATNA )THIS YEAR BECAUSE THEY SHOULD GIVE AWARD TO OTHER IN THE NAME MOHD RAFI NOT TO MOHD RAFI,MOHD RAFI IS BIGGER THAN ANY AWARD.
August 3rd, 2006 at 10:01 pm
sorry anmol ,very sory and i am thankful to shambu for making me realise my mistake …………………….i hope ur also a die hard rafi fan like me and u also want to make roger fedrer ,avi and shanker shut theire mouths do not read roger fedrer s message u would be ashamed as a rafi fAN HE IS ABUSING RAFI SAHAB
August 3rd, 2006 at 9:53 pm
dear monu,
read what anmol write carefully, he is answring shaker and avi not critiisizing mohdrafi,THANX ANMOL BHAI FOR THIS POST.
August 3rd, 2006 at 9:18 pm
DEAR RAFIANS,
THERE IS A GOOD NEWS I WOULD LIKE TO SHARE WITH YOU
MOHD.RAFI SAHAB HAS BEEN FINALLY NOMINATED FOR ” BHARAT RATNA ” THIS YEAR…………
IF THAT CROOKED TINGLING LATA DOESN’T INTERFERE THIS YEAR THEN HE SHOULD GET THE AWARD THIS YEAR.
LETS PRAY EVERYONE THAT RAFI SAHAB GETS THE AWARD THIS YEAR.
REGARDS
SAGAR