The Rafi-Kishore saga
The following article appeared in The Statesman,Calcutta, on Aug.7 th 2005. It will give more food for thought to the ongoing debate about the Rafi personality and magic - Mohan Flora .
Mohd. Rafi was the greatest playback singer, asserts Ranjan Das Gupta as he pays tribute on the melody kings 25th death anniversary. Rafi was a classically trained singer while Kishore was naturally endowed with excellent resonance. The latter was a versatile genius, singer, music director, actor, writer and director all rolled into one. Both were proficient singers but had separate individual styles.
In the 1950s Rafi literally ruled the roost. He was the most favoured singer for veteran composers like Naushad, S.D. Burman, Shanker Jaikishan, Madan Mohan while Kishore was preferred by S.D. Burman and Salil Choudhury who was playback mainly for Dev Anand and his own films. Rafi on the other hand could balance his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
It is an astonishing fact that O.P. Nayar used Rafi to sing for Kishore Kumar the unforgettable tune Man Mora Bawra in Ragini in 1957. Shanker Jaikishan also had Rafi to sing Ajab Hai Dastan in Shararat in 1958. Says record museum owner Vinod Santhalia, It is simply amazing. Imagine Mohd. Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films Kishore himself acted.
Shanker Jaikishan commented, No doubt Kishore Kumar is a good singer. He sang beautifully for me in Rangoli. But Ajab Hai Dastan was simply not Kishores cup of tea. The mukhdas and antaras required a singer of Rafis range and classical background.
Although Kishore Kumar felt bad about this, he could only marvel at Rafis brilliant rendering of the two songs. Rafi characteristically remarked, No one else except Kishore could sing Dukhi Man Mera in Funtoosh so well.
Salil Choudhury was not favourably inclined towards Rafi at one point of time, but even he was compelled to use Rafi for the unforgettable Tootey Huey Khuabo Nay in Madhumati and Koi Soney Ke Dil Wala in Maya and confess that Rafi was indeed peerless.
It is generally known that Rafi and Kishore went through a bad patch in their relationship. Yet it is also true that both liked and respected each other. S.D. Burman openly admitted to Kishore that the three solos in Guide by Rafi could not be matched by any singer. On Dev Anands special request, he composed the Kishore-Lata super hit duet Gata Rahe Mera Dil for Guide. Similarly, Rafis numbers in Teen Deviyan and the haunting duet with Lata Mangeshkar in Jewel Thief were far superior to the Kishore numbers in these films.
In the late 60s when R.D. Burman composed the melody for Tum Bin Jaaun Kahan in Pyar Ka Mausam, he experimented the same solo with both Rafi and Kishore. True, Kishore sang this number by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. But in the romantic number, Rafi scored over Kishore in melody.
The 60s was also considered Rafis decade though Kishore matured considerably as a singer during this period. The Jungle Mein Mangal number Woh Din Ke Baat Sharan Karo had both Rafi and Kishore together but is somehow not remembered that well. But Shanker Jaikishans Hanste Gate Jahan Se Guzar in Andaz by Rafi quite eclipsed Kishores entire Zindagi Ek Safar in 1971.
Madan Mohan also used both Rafi and Kishore in the song Yu Na Sharma for Parwana in 1972. Kishore sang the happy rendition for hero Navin Nischal. But there was Rafi again to do full justice to the Are Hansnewale, the melancholic aspect of the same song for Amitabh Bachchan.
In the 1970s the Kishore Kumar wave took the Hindi film music by storm and was backed by R.D. Burman. Some critics felt R.D was partial to Kishore and avoided using Rafi. The Rafi Kishore duet Yaadon Ki Barat from the film with the same title in 1973 turned out to be a superhit. But it cannot be categorised either as an exclusive Rafi or a Kishore gem for both sang in perfect harmony.
Subsequently, R.D. Burman opted for Rafi again after four years as no other singer could have rendered so skillfully Chand Mera Dil and Kya Hua in Hum Kisi Se Kum Nahin; that too in a film with many Kishore Kumar superhits like Mil Gaya and Aa Meri Jaan.
When Rafi sang Darde Dil for Laxmikant Pyarelal in Karz in1980 based on a single note, he proved melody was indeed God-gifted to him, remembers upcoming singer Sujan Bose. Kishores Ay Mere Umar Ke and Ek Hasina Thi could not touch that level. The same can be said for Rajesh Roshan’s Yarana where Rafi’s Aare Re Aisa Tarana completely surpassed Kishore’s Sara Zamana and Tere Jaisa.
Mohd. Rafi left for his heavenly abode on 31 July, 25 years ago. Remembers author Nabaran Bhattacharya, The photo of a silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
As Kishore himself said when Jagjit Singh criticised the Rafi gharana, How dare these so-called ghazal singers criticise an icon that Manna Dey, Mukesh and I dare not criticise. Rafi was unique.
June 17th, 2006 at 10:16 pm
dear Mohanflora,
U said right “KUTTE KI DUM SIDHI NAHI HOTI”, Tum (I should write AAP>/b> but u don’t deserve it) jaise hi log hai jo use sidhi karni ki Bewakufi karte hai aur kar bhi rahe hai.
Boss, as u like Rafi we like KISHORE. What is a problem?
As u r saying Rafi is great, we are saying KISHORE is great.
Greatness for me in singing is that touches the heart n KISHORE has that power, I like Rafi too but Kishore “me KUCHH aur hi baat hai”.
dear MohanFlora, I also have huge colection of Rafi but still KISHORE is my favorite.
Jo mishal aapni di hai wo aap par bhi lagu hoti hai,
aur shayad aap par HIIIIIII hoti hai
June 17th, 2006 at 9:41 pm
Rafi was undoubtedly the favourite of all music directors SJ, Naushad, LP, Madan Mohan, Roshan, Ravi and all the other greats whom I have missed. Perhaps RD was perhaps one of the few MDs who had a personal favourite other than Rafi. However if we. analyze RDs output with Rafi- it is out an outright impressive. The RD rafi combination, often underplayed, definitely has class written all over it, enough to stand out as a Golden Collection collectible.
1. Chaand Mera Dil, Poocho na Yaar, O hasina Zulfon Waali, Dekhiye Saahibo, Ae Jaan-e Jahaan, Gulaabi Aankhein, Tumne Mujhe Dekha - Impressive western styled numbers- of diverse genres and range - from Pop, Rock’n’ Roll, Soul to Disco.
2. Lilting soulful melodic songs- Koi Aur Duniya mein, Waadiyan Mera Daaman, Tum bin Jaaoon kahaan, Ni Sultana re, Kitna Pyaara waada.
3. Rustic earthy songs- Rut hai milan ki, Goriyan kahaan tera des re..
4. Ghazals- Mein ne poocha chaand se
5. Qawaalis- Jeena usiki ka hai, Hain agar dushman, Pal do Pal ka.
6. Comedic songs- Rekha o Rekha, Chadti Jawaani teri chaal mastani..
7. Theme Songs of films- Pyaar hai ek Nishan ( Mukti) , Kudrat
June 17th, 2006 at 3:45 pm
Errata
In my next-to-last blog please read “Although Mukesh is a less popular singer “than” Kishore…..”
Nair
June 17th, 2006 at 2:39 pm
If I remember well, I was hooked to Kishore.s pyaar baat ten chalo -song in the film and KK was good too.Even at that time I knew that he was no challenge to Rafi. I liked him be’cos his style was different.I am a great collector of Rafi/KK duets be’cos they bring out the best in them even though recognising the fact that KK has to put in extra effort. I am no music expert
or connoisseur but am a feeler. Rafi saabs music and songs have changed the course of my life and would advice those who need a balm in their life-go to rafisaab! However, do listen to KK and others,too, with aopen mind and heart. Don’t become a kuaan ka dadoo or Kutte ki poonch!
June 17th, 2006 at 2:15 pm
There is a saying that try what you may ,Kutte ki poonch seedhi nahi ho sakti,even if if you put it in a pipe for 14 years. The sames the case with these two guys-avi and shankar- THE ONE TRACK MINDS.They live in their own world-Kuan ke dadoo?BaHAR NIKAL KE DEKHO!KK was kishore whatever they may say.I am a KK fan too! But I Know the difference just like any mother/father would between two daughters/sons.I love both of them-KK and Rafi- but I know in my heart of hearts who is more brillliant/talented. Before 1970, I hardly knew who KK was. The most I remember him was from the fillm Hum Sab Ustad Hain which I had gone to see primarily because it starred Dara Singh, my childhood dhishoom- dhishoom hero.Of course, in the rafisque world of that time we did get to hear KK’s yodelling and comic renderings now and then and it was hilarious and enjoyable only when heard. Otherwise, the world revolved and hummed Rafi. Come Aradhana and Kati Patang, I and my kins were hooked to KK and RD. The trendy rythms and beats with a new sound was great! But it did not last. After sometime eveything seemed to sound the same.Boredom set in. We started yearning for the VOICE again. And the VOICE responded by forgiving his faltering fans. For the fans they enacted The Return Of The Prodigal Fan- and they lived happily ever after!
June 17th, 2006 at 10:04 am
One more short point. Rafi and Kishore are persons who left this world years back. Can any one deny the fact that they are more popular than the living legends Lata Mangeshkar or Asha Bhosle? Any person, who prefers to listen to Lata, prefers her mostly because of her duets with Rafi and Kishore. Seldom are Lata’s or Asha’s solos heard. Also the two female singers are remembered only for their old songs. That shows the greatness of the Rafi and Kishore.
June 17th, 2006 at 6:40 am
hi rajeev,
i agree we can’t talk about if’s and but’s, but each person has his own point of view and i look at the basic talent first. if that talent remains unfulfilled bcos of lack of training, it saddens me but it doesn’t reduce the basic talent. u r fair to look at what rafi has done but i look at what kk could’ve done with more practice.
i’ll give u a real life example from both points of view. It’s not perfect but a decent example: there are two students, both very intelligent. one, through hard work and direction, gets a seat in top 100 in IIT. The other works hard but has nobody to give him direction and he can’t get through IIT. u will be right if u say that the first student is greater than the second, but i’m also right when i say that the second student is as intelligent as the first, even though he couldn’t get through IIT.
if u r unbiased, i have a suggestion. pls go to indianscreen.com, scroll down the page and click on “Songs Page” at the bottom. in the new page, pls search for “husna bhi hai udas” and “aa mohabbat ki basti” from the movie “fareb” and listen to those songs. u’ll hear a version of kk that nobody even knows about. the md of that film was anil biswas who was a hard taskmaster. kk also sang for khemchand prakash, husnlal-bhagatram all who require strong control over shruti and laya (sur and taal).
also, i think the main reasons why rafi was preferred over manna dey is bcos rafi’s voice was much sweeter and rafi’s pronounciation of urdu (in those days most of the lyricists were urdu poets like shakeel badayuni, majrooh sultanpuri, raja mehdi ali khan, sahir ludhianvi etc.) was perfect while manna da, being a bengali, left something to be desired.
June 17th, 2006 at 6:34 am
Dear Nemesis,
Thanks for the acceptance. If you really mean it, please give a consideration to the following. I fully accept the two points put forward by you regarding KK.
I am a professor. In my university there is a practice of evaluating students. It is like this; what Mr. X was when he started the course and how far he has eventually improved. If he has shown 60 percent of improvement, we give him a, say 6 points, and if it is 70 percent we give him 7 points. We never compare students with each other, as some of them are exceptionally brilliant and a comparison between that student and a normal student is meaningless.
Kishore Kumar, given his lack of classical training (which in no way is an excuse), is a wonderful singer. From the songs pointed out by Shanker, it appears that, he had a good aptitude for classical music. He might have become a singer of high quality had he been under a good teacher/mentor like LP. Even, had he been with Rafi, like Mahendra Kapoor, he would have joined the “class”. Unfortunately, SD and RD misused him, and gave world a Kishore Kumar with lot of flaws and highly vulnerable to any sort of criticisms. Although, Mukesh is a less popular singer as Kishore, there will be very few who call him bad, or cheap, or pathetic. This is for the reason that Mukesh, even though had a thick nasal voice, was a disciplined singer; disciplined in terms of songs. The same applies to Manndey, Mahendra Kapoor, and Talat Mehmood, who were of the same category (in one way or another) as Mukesh. Now, KK did (or was made to do) all kinds of mannerisms and synthetics in his songs. Certainly, this made him popular, and it is only this popularity that gave him the honour of being compared with Mohd. Rafi; a singer altogether belonged to a high class. If the popularity part is subtracted from KK, no one would have even bothered to compare him with Rafi – it never happened till 70s.
Had KK a trained singer, he might have never incorporated yodeling or its accessories in his songs. His voice might have been soothing, not have sounded loud, and many more positives might have blessed him. But he might also have not received the popularity that he received in early 70s – thanks to the loud music culture then.
Yet, if we take him with all his negatives, he is ahead of Mukesh et al., primarily because of his multi-range, e.g., he had sung romantic, comic, and sad songs. Mukesh even in “Mera joota hai Japani” sounds melancholic, Talat will fail in a comic number, Mahendra Kapoor always sound patriotic. But Kishore gains points here.
By late 70s Kishore improved a lot under LP, although he carried traces of negatives gained over years under Burmans.
Here I have attempted to evaluate KK with KK. It seems that he needs a good credit.
Now, Rafi. He is one of those exceptionally brilliant candidates, who, if compared with others, will sweep all of them. His positives; those have been amazingly explained by all our friends here in many ways. He is a perfect package. If you have a checklist for music, try Rafi with that; he will meet all the items. He is Mukesh, Manndey, KK, Talat, Bhimsen Joshy, SPB, Yesudas, Khandsaala, …. all in one person. Friends, he is purely comic when he sings a comic song. We can’t then find in him any traces of a singer who sang memorable melancholic numbers. When he sings classical, he is a complete classical singer, as if he knows only that. The amazing truth is that he is of all types, yet of only one type in each song. In the song from Pyar kiye Ja, which our friend Avi dislikes, Rafi sings for a foolishly arrogant Sashi Kapoor. My friend, ask yourself, your dislike is for that character not for the song. We should remember that it is the same Rafi who sang “man tarpat hari darshan ko aaj” and “meri kahaani bhoolne waale”.
I always feel that his voice was getting so divine as he approached his end. My favorites are his songs in the 80s. There can never be another Rafi.
Regards
Nair
June 17th, 2006 at 6:25 am
Hi Nemesis,
I like your fair and objective analysis. Even I have a lot of respect for Kishore as an all-rounder, and I like to listen to a lot of his songs. I think of Kishore as a good singer in his own right, the only problem is when his fans become too optimistic and unrealistic and start comparing him to Mohd Rafi. Kishore’s body of his work just looks too insignificant, amateurish and plain compared to Rafi’s, and it’s a fact that nobody who understands music can deny. Again, let’s not talk about the ifs-and-buts like “what if KK had classical training” because there is no end to that. The fact is that even Rafi wasn’t that much trained classically compared with some other singers, but he just was gifted with almost super-natural singing talent. For example, even a highly trained singer like Manna Dey couldn’t sing O Duniya ke Rakhwale mainly because Rafi’s ability to sing in several octaves with utmost ease. You either have it, or you don’t and Rafi had it all in singing, and more…
June 17th, 2006 at 5:08 am
dear anmol and nair,
u seem to be the only open-minded and knowledgeable rafi fans, where the others think that to be a rafi fan u should insult kk, i think we are arguing two different premises. before i make clear what i’m saying, i have a couple of points to make:
1. every person has a different voice. for example, if u take classical vocal, pandit bhimsen joshi, ustad bade ghulam ali khan, ustad amir khan all have different voices but all are very good in classical singing. this possibly came about due to training and practice. for example, we cannot say pandit bhimsen’s voice is not suited to classical singing.
2. there is a proverb: we judge ourselves on what we are capable of doing, while others judge us by what we have done.
when i look at kk, i combine both these points and think:
1. kk had the basic talent to sing. nobody without the innate talent can sing like him. he had the basic potential. in fact, he had a great overall musical sense that’s also proved by his compositions in beautiful songs like “door gagan ki chaon me”, “koi lauta de mere bheete hue din”, “beqarar-e-dil tu gaayeja” etc.
2. on top of that potential, “IF” he had added classical training, THEN we would’ve known the true limit of kk’s talent. bcos the voice can be trained and expanded by breath training and riyaz (which are both part of hindustani classical vocal). It was said when bhimsen joshi was young, he was criticized for his voice. But he worked hard and proved every one wrong. So, if kk had learnt classical, his range would’ve been different.
also, for me, technical prowess is just one aspect of singing. it has to be combined with the capability to convey the emotion, the mood of the song. in this aspect also, kk is on par with anybody. songs like “woh shaam kuch ajeeb thi”, “kuch tho log kahenge”, “teri duniya se hoke majboor chala”, “dil kya kare”, “hum bewafa hargiz na the” etc. are excellent renditions where we can actually feel the emotions.
i feel it is LP who actually gave kk some of his best songs, songs that proved his versatility and capability to reach a high scale. some other notable LP songs for kk are “haal kya hai dilon ka na poocho sanam” - a qawwali sung excellently by kk at a consistent high scale, “zindagi aa rahoon main”, “mere diwanepan ki bhi dawaa nahin” – languorous ghazal, etc.
for me, personally, the songs of rafi i like best are (in no particular order):
suhani raat dhal chuki
kar chale him fida jaanotan saathiyon
diwana hua badal – beautiful music by o.p.nayyar
dil mein chupake pyar ka toofan le chale – from “aan”
koi sagar dil ko behlata nahin – dil diya dard liya
all the solos he sang in Guide are superb
all his songs and verses in pyaasa
dil ka bhanwar kare pukar
and many more
June 17th, 2006 at 2:23 am
Upon hearing the arguments so far raised by the fans of Mohammed Rafi and Kishore Kumar, I hereby declare that Kishore is a great singer, yet with some flaws, but talented, although not perfect, nevertheless acceptable to the elite club of music, however needs improvement. But, Mohammed Rafi is the greatest, flawless, immensly talented, perfect; he is the God of Indian film music.
Order Order!!
June 17th, 2006 at 1:54 am
Avi, you are that of a person, who is blind to facts, because of your personal biases. Come on be truthful, and admit it. The whole world can see the truth, but you cannot. Rafi has been confirmed by most in this forum and by the famous, screen writers, and singers such as Manna Dey, Mahender Kapoor and Sonu Nigam, as the greatest singer born. What do you need to hear more? Just listen to Rafi’s songs carefully and you will find the rich voice quality, depth, range, melody and harmony. Then you listen to Kishore and you hear cheap outbursts of silly words. Kishore could not help it. He was not a born singer. So he resorted to cheap antics, just a like an actress who does not know acting wants to show her skin to gain cheap popularity. Have a nice day and may the truth finally come out from you.
June 17th, 2006 at 1:36 am
Dear Avi what are u want to proof??!!!Is it KK better singer than Mohd Rafi or KK is no two after Mohd Rafi?Do u know what O P Nayar said about Mohd Rafi?because some time u said that Mohd Rafi is better as singer than KK and in other time u said there is no one sing kk songs,
Dear there is should be one answer for WHO IS BETTER SINGER MOHD RAFI OR KK?I DON”T KNOW ABOUT MUSIC BUT WHAT PEOPLE SAID Moh Rafi IT SHOW US THAT MOHD RAFI WAS THE MALE BEST SINGER EVER BORN IN BOLLWOOD.
June 17th, 2006 at 12:19 am
Dear AVI,
Why are you pointing my existence out , you don’t have that right I suppose, we are having a musical debate , if you don’t have proper answers please accept it , atleast try not to be a coward .I have explained in my above posts that who lies where , still if you want to move out of track and talk about my existence then it proves your infidelity,immature behaviour and instability towards a topic.
So AVI next time you come up with any article please be sporty enough.
My posts were purely related to what music is all about I never disagreed that KISHORE is not good but I don’t agree that he surpasses Rafi Saab and that he is the only legend as per your quote of 29th May.
So buddy wake up you need to set your mind parameter first , you have a mental block for Rafi Saab, your heart accepts he is the best but your dirty brain doesnt so listen to your heart you will be in profit.
Take care buddy and if you have any debate related with Music then only post it or else if you post any GIBBRISH , RUBBISH and GARBISH queries please do not drag my name into it because you seem to be a CHILDO like your KISHORE DA .
So buddy this is my last post in your name, I am not going to debate with you unless you come up with a good and professional example on the topic MUSIC.
Regards
Sagar
June 16th, 2006 at 10:03 pm
Dear Anmol,
I have one question for you..
1. Why KK composition in “Door Gagan ki chaon me” and “JHUMAROO” is not placed in genious work?
Boss, if you say you know music pls. tell me whyis it so.
Anyway i have totally different opinion on it. But i am eager to know ur thought on it. As far as i remember in Tere Ghar ke samne, Rafi sang “HUU HUUUUUUUUUUUm “. It is not echo.
Dear Nair,
I have replied Sagar on VIDHATA, I know when VIDHATA released.
I replied to inform Saagar that KISHORE sang for SHAMMI KAPOOR. WHy u people r saying that KISHORE sang for OLD person.
I gave proof in my lat blog, there are many songs Rafi sang for old and kishore sang for young.
For e.g.
MOvie DHARAMA …Rafi sang for Pran, Kishore sang for Navin Nischal
Yadon ki Baarat..Rafi sang for Vijay Arora, Kishore sang for Tariq.
KUNWARA BAAP…Rafi sang for Mehmodd’s father, Kishore sang for Mehmood.
Dear Nair, Pls. define the constant parameter for defining the genious.
Rafi fans can go at any extent to prove right to wrong.
Somebody should tell Saagar’s parent to teach him, how to behave with other.
Saagar, what is ur existance in this world. I am sure 0.
KISHORE KUmAR had proved himself and gone from this world n people are still made after him. Few nonsense people like you, not only talking bullshit against KISHORE but also they r spoiling Rafi’s image.
June 16th, 2006 at 7:55 pm
Dear Avi,
Sorry to bother you I just came across this post please check the following :
avi Says:
May 29th, 2006 at 2:46 pm
ALi,
FYI i am 31 yrs. old and enough mature to differentiate between KK and RAFI.
I heard AMITABH ineterview he said “KISHORE Da is not only great singer but he is a great actor”. My dear friend u forget to write “NOT ONLY”. Hope you understand meaning of “NOT ONLY”.
Whatever you said in your last blog, i was also saying the same. I said singer can’t influenced HERO. It is upto MDs to select as per his comfort. I think u did not get my point.
My friend, Even today if u ask to vote for best singer, one and only KISHORE will win.
ALi, my friend, your information is wrong abt pay.
KISHORE was highest paid singer and whenever he sand duets with Lata, he used to charge 1 rs. less.
This is told by Shailendra Singh(Singer-Bobby Fame)
NoOne can touch soul as KISHORE did. So He and Only he is the best and greatest among all 3 legend singers.
HAHAHAHAHA !!! BOSS YOU ARE 31 , I DON’T BELIEVE THAT YOU CAN TALK SUCH GIBBRISH AND RUBBISH , AND LET ME TELL YOU ONE THING , KISHORE MADE A FILM CALLED ” MAMTA KI CHAON ” IN WHICH HE REQUESTED AMITABH TO MAKE A SPECIAL APPEARANCE , INITIALLY AMITABH AGREED BUT LATER HE DENIED TO ACT FREE OF COST IN KISHORE’S MOVIE , THIS MADE KISHORE SO ANGRY AND VIVID THAT HE DECLARED HE WILL NEVER LEND HIS VOICE TO AMITABH AGAIN.
KISHORE WAS A CHILDO NO DOUBT B’COZ THIS SHOWS HIS IMMATURE BEHAVIOUR TOWARDS SINGING PROFESSION.SO FORGET WHAT AMITABH SAID ABOUT KISHORE . BECAUSE AMITABH HIMSELF IS A CROOKED FELLOW , AND BY THE WAY WHO IS THIS ” SHAILENDRA SINGH ” IS HE A SINGER OR A ” BARKER ” LIKE KISHORE DA .
AVI YAAR COME ON WAKE UP YOU ARE IN A BAD NIGHTMARE , I HAVE A SOLUTION PLEASE LISTEN TO ANY RAFI’S SONG YOU WILL REALISE THE TRUTH.
RAFI’S ONE PATRIOTIC SONG MAKES THE WHOLE UNIVERSE CRY ” KAR CHALEIN HUM FIDA ” . AVI YOU HAVE MADE MY DAY BY THAT POST ITS SO HUMOROUS . BUDDY TAKE SOME REST YOU ARE ALMOST IN 30’s WHY TAKE TENSION JUST RELAX AND ENJOY ” THE MAESTRO RAFI SAAB ”
REGARDS
SAGAR
FYI : KISHORE REALLY USE TO TOUCH SOUL BUT MY SHOES ” SOUL ”
AND YOU ARE RIGHT KISHORE AND LATA SANG FOR MONEY , IN TRAINS WE COME ACROSS SUCH SINGERS WHO SING FOR MONEY AND THEY ALSO CHARGE 1RS. LESS.THANX FOR SHOWING YOUR MATURITY LEVEL.
I AM ALSO SURPRISED THAT YOU GET TIME TO GATHER SUCH GIBBRISH , RUBBISH INFORMATION AND POST IT HERE KEEP IT UP YOUR RESEARCH IS GOOD.
BYE BUDDY
SAGAR
June 16th, 2006 at 7:07 pm
Hi AVI,
Sorry,
“KK compositions were really very good perhaps cannot placed in the category of genuious work, since there where many in the league. If it was really a genious probability Dev Anand could have replaced KK as music composer with SD Burman.”
Its the other way round, replaced SD with KK.
June 16th, 2006 at 7:01 pm
Dear Kishor Fan (AVI),
Please get this in your head straight, “KISHOR was a star when Md. Rafi was not competing, and RAFI was a star when Kishor was competing, So Kishor is like Sachin Tendulkar and Md. Rafi is like Sir Don Bradman.
The base of music is Classical Singing. Kishor did not know A.B.C of it, and therefore sang MEDIOCRE songs. The greatest difference is Rafi sang in the actor’s voice, different voices for Shammi, Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Rajendra Kumar, Amitabh Bachchan and even Johnny Walker, Mehmood to name a few. This ability was totally missing in Kishor Kumar. He could sing only monotonous songs. Thats why greatest music directors like Naushad, OP Nayyar, Madan Mohan, Khayyam always preffered Rafi Sahaab.
The classical songs of Rafi still create magic, like Madhuban mein Radhika(Kohinoor), Man Tarapat Hari Darshan, etc. Kishor’s not a single song can compete with these songs.
I think the only reason your praising Kishor is your voice must be matching his, thats OK as there many such monkeys who can very very easily imitate Kishor and perhaps surpass Kishor also. But not a single person has competed with Rafi, at the most he can only compete with one aspect that too failing to excel. Sonu Nigam is a very good example, Kumar Sanu doesn’t dare to sing a Rafi’s song, but sings Kishor’s songs very easily. That proves the quality of Kishor’s songs.
If you are really interested in music which stirs the soul then there is no alternative to RAFI SAHAAB. This is admitted by the whole world, only very few idiots like you are left out. Even Lata coldn’t compete with Rafi, forget Kiishor. So Lata paired with Kishor to compete with Rafi, but still failed.
“Phir miloge Kabhi is baat ka waada karlo…” Listen to this song and try singing it. You really won’t be able to sing it, don’t mind even Kishor couldn’t have. The pitch is HIGH and has Semi-classical base.
“Kehdo Koi Kare Na Yahaan Pyar… ” Listen to this song and try finding a single of Kishor which can be so soul stirring. There are countless such songs.
FROM U R POST:-
Tell me one song where RAFI shout in sur
for e.g. last line from BACHANA E HASINO,
KISHORE sang ” CHAK CHIK CHA CHA CHA CHA” in very high peach.
I know you people will say it is all BAKWAS.
MY REPLY:-
You really don’t know what is SUR? First try to find that and then talk. Listen to Rafi’s to “Madhuban mein Radhika Nachere ” and you will know what SUR is. Listen to its start especially.
To sum up RAFI SAHAAB IS THE Greatest Playback Singer” and
Kishor’s case is like this saying …………………….
“ADH JAL GHAGARI CHALAKAT JAYE” .
And one more thing my dear friend AVI , I don’t think you are the right person to judge my maturity because you yourself sound like a ” GROWN UP SMALL CHILD ” just like KISHOR’S NEPHEW ” BAPPI LAHIRI ” , I think you should get your self tested improvise and come back to debate on THE MAESTRO RAFI SAAB “.
Till then ” SHABBA KHAIR ”
Regards
Sagar
June 16th, 2006 at 5:20 pm
I think KK was great because kk was a human hand made and Mohd Rafi was A GOD gift for music lover,
June 16th, 2006 at 4:45 pm
Dear Avi,
I have observed that you don’t read messages properly. I never used the word JUST BETTER for KK as a composer. It is BRILLENT and SUPERIOR.
Earlier you wrote “You can’t just excuse of RAFI’s downfall by stating his health.” I never mention about Rafi’s bad health as such but it was SD Burman’s bad health what I mention.
First of all KK as a composer cannot be compared with Rafi, since Rafi was not a composer.
KK compositions were really very good perhaps cannot placed in the category of genuious work, since there where many in the league. If it was really a genious probability Dev Anand could have replaced KK as music composer with SD Burman.
Regarding echo songs there are many composed by SD Burman himself.
Diwana Mastana Hua Dil - Rafi/Asha in Bombai ka Babu
Ku Kahan Dil Rubaa - Rafi in Tere Ghar Ke Samnee.
June 16th, 2006 at 4:11 pm
Dear Rajeev not only said by Manny day there many in list as SPB said for I don’t feel like half a singer when listening to Rafi and Yesudas said most important is the comfort level over ranges which makes you feel God has been partial to Rafi and many more.
A Rafi fan is always more than pleased to learn that Rafi is still regarded as the benchmark and is one and only one singer in the Indian Subcontinent whom others big ,medium or small are generally compared to. I have seen people debating over Rafi versus Mukesh, Rafi versus Talat, Rafi versus Manna and in last 30 years Rafi versus Kishore and now it is pleasure to see debates on Rafi versus SPB or Rafi versus Yesudas. And a common thread is that all of the artists themselves consider/considered Rafi as a benchmark.
June 16th, 2006 at 2:23 pm
This is going to be unending debate, and I don’t think anybody is going to gain anything by arguing over a moot point. People who understand music know that Rafi is/was the greatest ever…it’s not even a topic of discussion only becuase his superiority over others is so vast.
Again, just read Manna Dey’s quote in the last para that “Rafi was great. He was the best product of Indian music industry.” Here is the link: http://www.netguruindia.com/news/Apr01/20/CAL2.html
June 16th, 2006 at 2:14 pm
Vidhaata is a movie that came out in 1982; after Rafi’s demise. Even otherwise, Shammi Kapoor was 51 years old then and played an old man, and KK’s sound would be better than Rafi’s youthful voice for him at that stage. Now, the yahoo matter. If in the film it was done by someone else, please listen to Rafi’s live concert in London. He did that much better than in the movie.
June 16th, 2006 at 1:56 pm
Dear Avi,If u said that KK singed for Shammi in Film VIDHAATA, do u know why that song not singed by Mohd Rafi??!!!SAAT SAHELIYA KHADI KHADI was hit not because KK singed it,as I think almost people looking doble meaning word in songs and that(words) made this song hit as I think not KK voice.Dear Avi As I think Mohd Rafi singed more for KK than KK singed for Shammi Kapoor as I think not sure.
June 16th, 2006 at 1:51 pm
Hey guys,
Check out this Manna Dey interview, and he is quoted in the last para saying “Rafi was great. He was the best product of Indian music industry.”
Manna Dey is a better judge than almost anybody only because he was very very closely involved with Rafi, Mukesh, Kishore, Lata & Asha and was a master in the field himself, and he is calling Rafi as the BEST in the entire music industry.
This is another proof of Rafi’s overall vast superiority over all other singers.
Here is the link: http://www.netguruindia.com/news/Apr01/20/CAL2.html
-Rajeev