The Rafi-Kishore saga
The following article appeared in The Statesman,Calcutta, on Aug.7 th 2005. It will give more food for thought to the ongoing debate about the Rafi personality and magic - Mohan Flora .
Mohd. Rafi was the greatest playback singer, asserts Ranjan Das Gupta as he pays tribute on the melody kings 25th death anniversary. Rafi was a classically trained singer while Kishore was naturally endowed with excellent resonance. The latter was a versatile genius, singer, music director, actor, writer and director all rolled into one. Both were proficient singers but had separate individual styles.
In the 1950s Rafi literally ruled the roost. He was the most favoured singer for veteran composers like Naushad, S.D. Burman, Shanker Jaikishan, Madan Mohan while Kishore was preferred by S.D. Burman and Salil Choudhury who was playback mainly for Dev Anand and his own films. Rafi on the other hand could balance his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
It is an astonishing fact that O.P. Nayar used Rafi to sing for Kishore Kumar the unforgettable tune Man Mora Bawra in Ragini in 1957. Shanker Jaikishan also had Rafi to sing Ajab Hai Dastan in Shararat in 1958. Says record museum owner Vinod Santhalia, It is simply amazing. Imagine Mohd. Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films Kishore himself acted.
Shanker Jaikishan commented, No doubt Kishore Kumar is a good singer. He sang beautifully for me in Rangoli. But Ajab Hai Dastan was simply not Kishores cup of tea. The mukhdas and antaras required a singer of Rafis range and classical background.
Although Kishore Kumar felt bad about this, he could only marvel at Rafis brilliant rendering of the two songs. Rafi characteristically remarked, No one else except Kishore could sing Dukhi Man Mera in Funtoosh so well.
Salil Choudhury was not favourably inclined towards Rafi at one point of time, but even he was compelled to use Rafi for the unforgettable Tootey Huey Khuabo Nay in Madhumati and Koi Soney Ke Dil Wala in Maya and confess that Rafi was indeed peerless.
It is generally known that Rafi and Kishore went through a bad patch in their relationship. Yet it is also true that both liked and respected each other. S.D. Burman openly admitted to Kishore that the three solos in Guide by Rafi could not be matched by any singer. On Dev Anands special request, he composed the Kishore-Lata super hit duet Gata Rahe Mera Dil for Guide. Similarly, Rafis numbers in Teen Deviyan and the haunting duet with Lata Mangeshkar in Jewel Thief were far superior to the Kishore numbers in these films.
In the late 60s when R.D. Burman composed the melody for Tum Bin Jaaun Kahan in Pyar Ka Mausam, he experimented the same solo with both Rafi and Kishore. True, Kishore sang this number by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. But in the romantic number, Rafi scored over Kishore in melody.
The 60s was also considered Rafis decade though Kishore matured considerably as a singer during this period. The Jungle Mein Mangal number Woh Din Ke Baat Sharan Karo had both Rafi and Kishore together but is somehow not remembered that well. But Shanker Jaikishans Hanste Gate Jahan Se Guzar in Andaz by Rafi quite eclipsed Kishores entire Zindagi Ek Safar in 1971.
Madan Mohan also used both Rafi and Kishore in the song Yu Na Sharma for Parwana in 1972. Kishore sang the happy rendition for hero Navin Nischal. But there was Rafi again to do full justice to the Are Hansnewale, the melancholic aspect of the same song for Amitabh Bachchan.
In the 1970s the Kishore Kumar wave took the Hindi film music by storm and was backed by R.D. Burman. Some critics felt R.D was partial to Kishore and avoided using Rafi. The Rafi Kishore duet Yaadon Ki Barat from the film with the same title in 1973 turned out to be a superhit. But it cannot be categorised either as an exclusive Rafi or a Kishore gem for both sang in perfect harmony.
Subsequently, R.D. Burman opted for Rafi again after four years as no other singer could have rendered so skillfully Chand Mera Dil and Kya Hua in Hum Kisi Se Kum Nahin; that too in a film with many Kishore Kumar superhits like Mil Gaya and Aa Meri Jaan.
When Rafi sang Darde Dil for Laxmikant Pyarelal in Karz in1980 based on a single note, he proved melody was indeed God-gifted to him, remembers upcoming singer Sujan Bose. Kishores Ay Mere Umar Ke and Ek Hasina Thi could not touch that level. The same can be said for Rajesh Roshan’s Yarana where Rafi’s Aare Re Aisa Tarana completely surpassed Kishore’s Sara Zamana and Tere Jaisa.
Mohd. Rafi left for his heavenly abode on 31 July, 25 years ago. Remembers author Nabaran Bhattacharya, The photo of a silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
As Kishore himself said when Jagjit Singh criticised the Rafi gharana, How dare these so-called ghazal singers criticise an icon that Manna Dey, Mukesh and I dare not criticise. Rafi was unique.
June 14th, 2006 at 2:01 am
Dear Friend Shankar,
Just look at the blogs above and see who is lowering whom. All the KK fans are attempting to lower Rafi. And please control personal comments. OK.
June 14th, 2006 at 1:35 am
In 70s most of the MDs other than RD preferred KK because of the pressure from producers. Producers need good returns for the money they inverst in films. In 70s in the wake of the spreading hippy culture, Indian film muisc was also moving to that direction. To suit with that muisc-culture, a cheap, low-class voice was needed and KK provided that. When RD with his hippy tunes emerged, KK saw his heydays. Yet, some produces continued with cultured and good-themed films and high quality-music, which needed Rafi, Mukesh, Mahendra Kapoor and the likes. By late 70s this culture faded, KKs stardom also diminished.
June 14th, 2006 at 12:33 am
Just listen to Rafi’s O Duniya ke Rakhwale live version from the Around the World album, and you will see how unbelievably deep voice Rafi uses to sing this song. Just compare this voice that he uses to one of his very sweet songs like Pukarta Chala Hoon Main, and you it’s hard to even tell that it’s the same person’s voice. That was the beauty of Rafi’s voice, it could sound sweet, sad, happy, and deep etc. depending on what the situation is, who the actor is, and what the genre of the song is. It’s called voice modulation, something that Kishore could never really grasp all his singing career.
June 14th, 2006 at 12:25 am
You can just ask Manna Dey, Yesudas, SPB, IllyaRaja, Ravi, Lata Mangeshkar, Naushad, Anu Malik, LP, SJ, Anoop Jalota, OP Nayyar, Sonu Nigam, Udit Narayan, Shailendra Singh and a host of other music professionals who they think has been the greatest ever singer and they will all tell you that it has been Mohd Rafi. Guys, this is almost a top-of-the-tops kinda list, and these people really know their music. As compared to this, very very few people in the music industry will say the same about Kishore.
So, even in this music industry category, RAFI IS HELD AS THE GREATEST SINGER BY AN OVERWHELMING MAJORITY. Of course, people have different likes and dislikes, and there are always going to be a few people who will differ, but Rafi comes out at the top by a big margin!! It is the ultimate compliment to be heralded as the greatest ever by people who are themselves are top professionals in the music world.
June 14th, 2006 at 12:16 am
RealFan,
You sound like a 4-year old the way you have composed your post. The fact that some music directors like RDB, SJ, LP, Ravi, Madan Mohan etc. gave work to Kishore doesn’t mean that Kishore was the best. In fact, all of these MDs, with the possible exception of RDB, have always mentioned Rafi as the GREATEST EVER. Dude, even an average actor like Shahrukh Khan sells like crazy, and the same way an average singer like Kishore has also become successful.
Regarding the voice factor, just listen to even the best songs of Kishore and can still hear that constipation in his voice. He just couldn’t sing effortlessly like Rafi & Lata. As far as Rafi’s voice is concerned, he was blessed with just that perfect voice — deep, manly, yet very melodious and sweet. Rafi could modulate his voice to sound different for different songs and different situations, and if anyone calls his voice feminine, that person doesn’t know what music is. There is a difference between speaking voice & singing voice. If there wasn’t any difference, then Amitabh would have had the best singing voice ever, but Amitabh doesn’t have the best singing voice even though he has such a nice speaking voice. Rafi had the deepest and most divine voice with the most volume and depth. Poor Kishore, on the other hand, always sounded low-class, cheap and loud.
June 13th, 2006 at 10:58 pm
Dear Ali,
The link which i have sent is RDB autobiography only.
Dear Anmol, Good to read and know that KISHORE has done nothing.
RDB, SDb, LP,BAPPi everybody did for KISHORE. KISHORE exist because of them.
Dear Rafi Fans,
I have one question for u. Can u spend a single rupee to someone who is no use for you. You can spend the money for 1 time, 2 time but not many time.
You also means in different way, from ur blog that SDB, RDB and other KISHORE favourable MDs are not upto the mark because KISHORE was prime singer for them except SDB (gave chance to both).
Boss, They have proved themself and gone from this world.
Dear Anmol,
If Taar saptak was limitation for KISHORE then what abt foll. songs.
Just listen last antara from:
1. Jab dard nahi tha sine me tab khakh mazaa tha jeene me
2. Bachna e Hasino …just check the way KISHORE end the songs
Can anyone sung
NA KOI DIL ME SAMAYA ..(AA GALE LAG JA)?
June 13th, 2006 at 8:53 pm
Great mr Anmol Singh ,
Daer Avi please send link in which RD said that KK is better than Mohd Rafi or RD said that KK is the best male singer,What u sent there are no thing jest about RD not Rd speaking,Please check it bebofe 2 sent it.
June 13th, 2006 at 7:01 pm
Excellent! I hope the above will satisfy the the KK fans. Good writing and well researched. Let’s move on to other aspects of the two singers without passing harsh comments.Rather discuss Rafisaab’s vast range, melody and humane nature.
June 13th, 2006 at 2:12 pm
Dear Shankar,
KK was a jack of all trades but master none. Perhaps it took a long
time for him gain recongnition. Films produced in 50s where Historical,
Mythological, Peotic & Patriotic none supported KK mode and body
language. So KK had no choice but to categorize himself in all together
different league. Apart from singing he add to add mimickry also in
between. Mimickry and singing are two different things all together.
Plus he had to picturized the songs on himself and act accordingly in
order to make it look more effective. It would be interesting to know
whether why Kishore didn’t knew classical. Looking at this performance
in ‘Chalti Ka Naam Gaadi’ and many other films it can be clearly said
that classical singing is not his cup of tea neither it supports his body langauge.
Talking about to Rafi & Manna Dey certainly Manna Dev was techinally a
better classical singer as compared to Rafi. But when it came to picturization Manna Dey had no specific actor except for Raj Kapoor to
support him. It would be insteresting to know that Naushad has not
composed a single classical number for Manna Dey. The reason could be
Dilip Kumar gave preference to Rafi for most of this songs. Other
factor was Rafi’s control over voice, language and clearity of thought
at the highest pitch. Manna Dey sang most classical numbers under SJ
and SD. Examples - Films Basaat Bahar, Boot Polish, Taalash, etc.
Coming to back to KK, SD Burman (Dada) possibly was the only MD along
with Dev Anand who supported Kishore. The reason being in the 50s and
60s Dadas most compostions covered the madhya (middle) saptak (musical notes). Most other MDs covered the Taar (High) saptak in there
compositions. Dada transformed KK into a different category using Dev
Anand and KK as an actor using madya saptak. Songs like “Dukhi Mann
Mere”, “Hum Hai Rahe”, “Manaa Janaab Ne”, “Chod Do Anchal”, etc are
examples. But these songs did not give him recongnition as a singer
because of his limited range of operation.
Survival for KK in 60s was even more tough since dependency on Dada was not sufficent. He did compose music for his own film productions. Songs like “Aa Chal he Tujhe”, “Thandi hawa Ye Chandni”, “Jivan Se Naa Haar”, “Koi Hamdam Na Raha”, etc are remarkable compositions by KK himself.
But again if we compare KK with Hemant Kumar as a MD then KK stands no where. Plus KK never gave music for any other production company. But KK sang an excellent number for Hemant “Yo Shaam Kuch Ajeeb”.
KK and Shammi kapoor had lot of similarity in body langauge. But
majority songs for Shammi went to Rafi because he could meet every
possible requirement. Songs like “Ye Dekh Ke Dil Jhuma”, “Ehsaan Tera
Hogaa”, “Dil Ke Jarooke”, “Is Rang Badal Ti”, etc are songs which cover
Mandra (low), Madhya (Middle) & Taar (High) saptak. Taar Saptak is KK’s
limitation. The song “Akele Akele Kahan Ja Rahe Ho” is a terrific
example of switching over from Taar (High) to Mandra (Low) Saptak in one instant.
Late sixties also did not favour KK again, in fact it was KK’s toughest
phase of life. The loss of Madhu Bala. But it was his fighting spirit that kept him going.
As we move ahead there was a change in trend of film making in the late
60s and early 70s compared to the earlier of the 2 decades. It also saw
majority songs being composed with the Madya (middle) Saptak for which
both Dada and RD were masters. Finally after a long wait KK could get
his much awaited recognition as a singer. Songs sang By KK for
Aradhana, Sharmili, Kati Patang, Amar Prem, Gambler, Hera Panaa,
Abhimaan, Aap ki Kasam, Namak Haram, etc. were just mind blowing. This was the period upto 1975. The same year also saw the end of Dada
perhaps a great set back for KK.
RDs range of compostion was again very limited. As stated by Mohanflora
LP used KK is all together differnt way in films like Hati Mere Saathi,
Imtihaan, Daag, Dushman, Piya Ka Ghar, Dost, etc. which acted as a
weapon against RD. Apart from KK LP had Rafi along with them. The
result of which LP went ahead of RD.
During this so called KK dominated period of early seventies also saw
many remarkable contributions from Rafi also. Songs like “Lag Ja Gale
Dil ruba”, “Tum Jo Mil Gaye”, “Nafrat Ki Duniya”, “Aaj Mausam Bada”,
“Mere Mitwa”, “Ye to Chilmaan”, “Etnaa to Yaad Hai”, “Mein Jat Yamla”,
“Katna Payra Wada”, “Jab Bhi Ye Dil Udaas”,etc are all big hits. If one
carefully observes most songs sang by Rafi cover the Madya & Taar
suptak which is KK’s limition. Therefore one cannot really claim early
seventies saw complete dominence of KK.
As we move ahead ahead to late 70s, RD did contribute to KK success,
but also starting favouring Rafi. The result was “Kya Hua Tera Wada” a
come back for Rafi. LP starting giving more songs to Rafi compared to
early seventies but also contributed to KK. Most Amitabh starrer movies
had KK songs few went to Rafi. Late seventies also saw the rise of
Bappi Lahiri who also contributed to KK’s success, “Chalte Chalte”.
Apart from RD & LP Rajesh Roshan made significant contribution to KK’s
success. Songs of Kuwara Baap, Julie, Desh Pardes, Yaraana, Kaala
Pather & Kudaar are some great contributions.
Rafi’s death in 1980 was a great loss for LP. But LP could maintain their position without Rafi and without much contribution from KK. Instead they used many other singers like Suresh Wadkar, Anwar, Shabbir Kumar, Manhar & Munna Aziz. LP continued to dominate music world till early 90s.
RD continued his success with KK in films like Kudrat, Agar Tum Na
Hote, Shaan, Shakti, Satee Pe Sataa & Saagar in 80s which was much less as compared to 70s. RD did use Anwar, Shabbir Kumar, Shailendra & Bhupindra in his songs apart from KK. The reason was production of third grade films like the Himmitwala, Toofaa series which mostly went to Bappi Lahiri. Bappi’s class was no where as compared to the Burmans and LP. He did give good songs for KK in films like Namak Halal & Sharaabi in 80s otherwise KK sang mostly substandard songs under Bappi.
All good banners went to LP. LP did contribute to KK in Andhaa Kanoon, Avtaar & Desh Premee. LP’s last best contribution to KK was in Mr India. “Zindagi Ki Yahi reet hai, Har ke baat hi jeet hai” which also signifies KK’s own fighting spirit.
1987 also saw the end of KK, a journey with great struggle with
tremendous ability to fight back.
The following saying hold true for KK “Khud Ko Kar Bhuland Etnaa, Ke
Khuda Bande Se Puche, Bol Teri Razaa Kya Hai”.
This is tribute to KK from a Rafi fan.
June 13th, 2006 at 2:11 pm
Dear ALI
For U……….
Please find the link below where RDB says “KISHORE is a Best in Male Singer”.
Pls. read the whole article, it expose many thing abt evergreen legend “KISHORE”
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:oKNdS1ND0f8J:www.panchamonline.com/articles/thatsmytune.pdf+pancham+says+kishore+is+great&hl=en&gl=in&ct=clnk&cd=4
June 13th, 2006 at 1:40 pm
I have read all the blog in this site n few messages posted by few people are rediculous.
Ramesh,
As you don’t care abt what RDB said abt KISHORE (He is great) then we also don’t care abt someone who (Rafi fans) says abt Rafi.
The fact is, U can give Rafi unmatched songs to Manna Dey/Mahendra Kapoor n any trained singer, they will definetely do justice to all songs but give few KISHORE’s songs to them, They will fall sick.
That is the KISHORE.
I am very surprise to read that few Rafi fans have kishore’s cnstipation problem as few KK fans have Rafi’s feminine voice problem.
Ramesh, R u better than RBD, LP, SJ, MADAN MOHAN, othe great MDs who asked KISHORE to sing for their songs.
Don’t put ur childish thought on it.
June 13th, 2006 at 1:21 pm
Dear Ali,
I enjoye both RAFI-Lata and KISHORE-LATA. I can’t defferentiate them.
If i like RAFI- LATA
1. RIMJHIM KE GEET SAAWAN GAAYE
2. MUJHE TERI MOHHABBAT KA
3.PATTA PATTA BUTA BUTA (MOST LIKE)…Many More
I also like KISHORE-LATA
1. Is MOD SE JAATE HAI
2. E MOUSAM AAYA HAI (MOST LIKE)
2. KYA YAHI PYAR HAI …Many More
I enjoyed both from my heart.
I hope i anser ur question.
Thanx
June 13th, 2006 at 12:24 am
Dear Ramesh,
I don’t think that Man Like RD said that KK is better than mohd Rafi, what the people say that RD who made KK but we all know that RD first film in which he gave music all songs singed by Mohd Rafi,It is one of few films that a singer in all songs.
June 12th, 2006 at 11:59 pm
Hi Anmol,
You make a great point about the amount of effort that Kishore had to put in, and that’s why he sounds constipated in most of his songs, and you can’t help but just hate constipated singing. Kishore’s constipated style was still tolerable, but unfortunately, Kumar Sanu took this constipated style to yet another pathetic level. That effortlessness that Rafi & even Lata have is just not there in Kishore’s singing. Another thing that should be pointed out that even though Kishore sung Mere Naina Saawan Bhado quite well, especially by his own standards, it must be highlighted that he practiced on Lata’s already-sung version for a week before rendering his version. Anybody who thinks about things objectively will know how different it is to do be the first person to do something as compared to copying. Singers like Lata & Rafi didn’t need this kinda extra help like poor Kishore. And this wasn’t the only song for which Kishore needed special help, it was atually quite routine for him.
Regarding the fact whether any singer or MD has ever mentioned Kishore as the best singer, I will say that some people like RD may have done so, but who cares for one or two deviants because the fact remains that an overwhelming majority of people, including masters of the trade like Manna Dey, who are are in the music business regard Rafi as the best ever!!
-Ramesh
June 12th, 2006 at 11:50 pm
Dear Avi or Shankar,
If I ask u that Argentina team will win or Indain Team,U r Answer will be Indian Team because i didn’t asked in football,If I ask in Football?U will say that in cricket Indain team will win.
June 12th, 2006 at 11:45 pm
dear anmol,
i diagree with u. just bcos a singer is more trained and sang difficult songs doesn’t mean he’s better. in that case, manna dey is a better singer than rafi bcos everybody knows that manna dey is the best when it comes to classical songs (songs like “laaga chunari mein daag”, “jhanak jhanak tore baaje payaliya”). but it’s more than that. it’s rafi’s voice and versatility that gave hime the edge.
and this voice and versatility, kk also had. u can argue all u want that rafi’s voice is better. but bcos u r a rafi fan, u’ll say like that. if u ask kk fans, they’ll say kk’s voice is better. rafi’s voice was suited for songs of the ’60’s while kk’s voice was suited for the songs of ’70’s. when people heard kk sing “mere sapnon ki rani” in aradhana, people got blown away with the youth and enthusiasm in his voice. rafi had dominated the ’60’s and they needed a change.
u can take all the classical training u want. i just want u to sing “eena meena dika” or “yeh jawani hai diwani” or “saamne yeh kaun aaya”. u might get the sur and taal perfectly but u cannot generate that energy and enthusiasm in ur voice like kk. that “magic” would be missing. in SA RE GA MA PA programme, one trained singer sang “meri soni, meri tamanna …” from “yaadon ki baarat”. he got the sur and taal right but it still was nothing compared to what kk sang. the judge of that episode said that when u were singing, kk’s voice was ringing in my ears.
kk is a great singer inspite of lack of classical training bcos nobody can generate the energy he has in his voice, and also nobody can sing sad songs like him. nobody can show pain like kk. songs like “kuch tho log kahenge”, “chingari koi bhadke” etc. are unmatched.
i’m not saying kk is greater than rafi. in fact rafi fans are saying rafi is 100 times better than kk, and i’m arguing that it’s not correct.
June 12th, 2006 at 10:36 pm
Dear Avi U r mixing The Question is who is the better Mohd Rafi or KK as SINGER,who said that kk is not talented?!!!yes if we compare him with Mohd Rafi offourse Mohd Rafi is 100’s% more talented than kk as SINGER.
As u said that RD said that KK is better than Mohd Rafi I don’t think so because what people said that KK is made by RD not RD made KK,
Dear Avi or Shankar,
Please give me one name who said that he became famous because of KK?
about Mohd Rafi there are many great names who said that they are famous because of Mohd Rafi.
when Rd and Rajesh Khanna was at top they make kk famous after that Mr Bachchan but Mohd Rafi was alone he was on top as singer.
June 12th, 2006 at 9:08 pm
Daer Avi,
May u please give me website where RD SAID THAT KK IS BETTER SINGER THAN MOHD RAFI??!!There are many who said that KK is good singer and I am one of them but no one can say like that KK is better singer than Mohd Rafi.As Nair said u r Indain are lucky that u have a gift like Mohd Rafi.Lata said that KK was a good singer and same lata said that like Mohd Rafi never born again.
Dear Avi
U didn’t answer some Q from friends I don’t know why?!!Maybe u don’t have answer.Can u answer Mohd Rafi with Lata or KK with Lata better please answer honestly???
June 12th, 2006 at 6:34 pm
Dear Avi,
I did not intend any comparison by mentioning the song from Khwaab (not even with KK). I like the song very much and would like to know other connoisseurs’ approach about that song (probably a wrong blog). I do not think that even SPB and Yesudas with their good shruthi control can sing that particular song as Rafi. I just said that SPB and Yesudas also has sruthi control. Please do not make bizzare interpretations. Well, I must also add that that KK did true justice to the song “mere naina sawan bhadon” in shivaranjini raag. When I heard Kumar sanu and Abijit rendering it, I felt that KK is really versatile - I feel that all Rafi fans agree to this. But does not mean that KK is above Rafi. Rafi is a gift to India.
June 12th, 2006 at 6:11 pm
Dear Unknown and Nair,
Unknown, RD said KISHORE is best, just check at RD forum.
We are not questioning Rafi capabilities, He was great trained singer but is it critria to critice someone who is not trained singer.
Boss there r many trianed singers like Manna Dey, Mahendra Kapoor but why only KISHORE stood against Rafi. He had some divine power n his capability to prove better. I always rate him high because without knowing classical he delivered fantastic song.
U r talking abt KISHORE “Mere naina saawan bhado” n “O manjhi Re”, I feel both r`raag based songs n kishore had done a great justice to both song without having knowledge on CLASSICAL MUSIC. He composedv many great songs without knowing CLASSICAL. That is the reason why i always rate him high.
dear friends, You can find Rafi like (thin) voice everywhere but of course not his talent but Kishore very rare.
Just listen what Ismail Darbar said in “SA RE GA MA PA” on KISHORE when one singer started rendering “EK hasina THI”. He said noone can touch this legends.
I have no issue with Rafi and i always listen him along Mukesh but Kishore i listen more because he touches my heart. The issue here is Rafi fans always try to prove him(KK) worst and they don’t give him respect.
dear Unknown, If one guy is there on the top for 17yrs then he must be really talented n that only made him to exist everywhere.
Good, i m agree with u only deaf who doesn’t have soulful heart can say Rafi is better than KISHORE…
Dear Nair, U r comparing Rafi with SPB n Yesudas
, very sad. There is no comparison between Rafi n SPB/Yesudas.
June 12th, 2006 at 4:50 pm
Dear brethren,
I have heard this Rafi song “Tu hi who haseen hai” from Khwaab (1980) composed by Ravindra Jain. This is the most tuneful song I have ever heard. It goes to many pitches……..but the listener can feel the ease with which Rafi sings (and the smile on his face) even when the song floats in the highest pitch. It’s not the question of climbing the pitches, but at a point when he sings “sangemarmar ki moorat ho” after the orchestra, Rafi skillfully starts with a high pitch and makes a beautiful descention to “mein ne dekha tughe to mere dil yehi kehna laga”. All the time, his voice remains in proper control, not even a mild variation in shruthi. I have only seen control in SPB and Yesudas other than in Rafi. In have heard that this is one among the last songs sung by Rafi.
Any comments friends?
June 12th, 2006 at 3:00 pm
Dear Avi and Shankar,Is it mean that KK singed more than Mohd Rafi in 70.s it make kk better singer??!!!when actor like Aamir Khan jest has one or two flims in a year and other have more Is it mean that Aamir khan is workless??!!!
as u said If you remove Kishore songs from RAJESH ROSHAN, BAPPI LAHIRI, SAPAN JAGMOHAN then they are nothing as I think if u come Rajesh Roshan or Roshan Ithink they have better songs with Mohd Rafi than KK,about Bappi Lahiri and Sapan because of kk they are not count with great MD,
Dear Avi
As u said that accept the truth that Rafi ruled in 60’s’ n 70’s n later KISHORE was everywhere.
This history can’t be changed.Answer of that It is not mean that who is in everywhere is the better than other like an actor u see him in most of films it not mean that he is better actor than Mr Bachchan,what about 50’s?!!the history never put KK better singer than Mohd Rafi,If there is a deaf I think he will say that Mohd Rafi is better singer than KK
Please AVI OR SHANKAR GIVE ME ONE NAME as MD or singer Who said that KK better singer than Mohd Rafi
June 12th, 2006 at 2:15 pm
Dear Avi,
I pity you very much. Unfortunately you and most other KK fans do not have the knowledge to understand classical music neither the ability.
When I listened to Rafi singing “O Duniya Ke Rakhwale”, “Mann Tadpat Hari Darshan” & “Madhubhan Mein Radhika”, my disare to learn vocal classical grew. I got an apportunilty in 1997 at Sangeet Mahabharati, Juhu, Mumbai after enrolling in 1993, under Pt Pradeep Chatterjee. Pt P Chatterjee is a thorough perfectionist when it comes to sur and taal. He use fire us left and right if we come unprepared and go off key. I was progressing quiet well but had to discontinue after 2 years, due to my continuous travelling on the job. 2 years of training in classical brought a lot of refiness in my voice. It also brought clarity of thought. But because my training was incomplete I am in no position to sing the above songs even with 5% perfection till date.
But if you ask me to sing any KK song, I can easily follow it without any difficulty. In a gathering given a choice it is earlier to sing a KK song because the chances of going wrong are minimum. That is what most amature singers do in most programmes. That doesn’t mean that KK is a better singer.
Classical music is the basis for comparision of a caliper of a singer or a music composer. Since you are from South India, most singers and music composers in Southern India are classically trained, whether it is Yesudas, S B Balasubramium, Ilyaraja, A R Rehman, etc. Perhaps the reason that most Tamil films are able to produce melody till date.
Lets consider the song sang by KK & Lata (Mere Naina Sawan Bhaayo). KK sang the song very well event at a high pitch. The different between Lata & KK is the KK applies too much force, where as Lata sings with much ease, because Lata is a classically trained singer. Its like comparing Pakistani bowlers Shohib Akhtar with Wasim Akram. Shohib has to run much longer to generate pace, where as Wasim does the same with much shorter run up.
The same can be said for songs ‘O Majhi Re’ & ‘Ek Hasina Thi’. Again very well sang but applying force more then his capability. Infact RD Burman did a lot of experiment with KK but finally could not excel to the class of Rafi or Manna Dey.
Music composers in 50s & 60s were all classically trained. Kishore excelled only under S D Burman, beacuse it gave him simple tunes to sing, where as for classical and high pitch songs he had to turn to Rafi and Manna Dey.
Awards are not the right criteria to compare the capability of any artist. Shah Rukh Khan got more film fare awards compared to Amir Khan though in reality Amir is a far superior actor.
If KK was not a classically trained singer, please do not use this as an excuse to prove that he could have been better than Rafi or he is better is so & so aspects. That why we could compare Rafi with Ustad Bade Gulam Ali Khan, possibly the world would laugh at us. Infact when Manna Dey was asked to sing with Pt Bhimsen Joshi by SJ he went absconding for several days.
June 12th, 2006 at 12:39 pm
Excellent dear Mohan,
Dear Nair and Mohan as dear Shankar and Avi said that Mohd Rafi was workless because I think they want 2 Mohd Rafi sing all songs from 1970 to 1980.
Dear Avi and Shankar,Do u know about film Caravan (1971) one of the best films for RD as MD?RD used Mohd Rafi not KK.
Do u know what Mukesh said Mohd Rafi in 60’s as joke?as Manny day said GIVE US SOME SONGS
Dear Shankar as u said that it also helped that his voice was perfectly suited for rajesh khanna and later amitabh bachchan.
I think u r wrong 100% because if u go for Rajesh knanna jest listen songs in Films Naya Raasta ,Sachaa Jhutha,Aan Milo Sajna,Mehboob Ki Mehandi how can u forget is song “Yeh Jo Chilman Hai”)and for Mr Bachchan Mohd Rafi singed around 16 songs please listen that songs in films Pyar Ki Kahani and Naseeb,
As u said that Mohd Rafi has only two hit films in 70’s but please read Mohan list,What about these films as in mohan list are Sawan Bhadon,Sachaa Jhutha,Pagla Kahin Ka,Naya Raasta,Khilona,Humjoli,Ganwaar,Parwana,The Train,Heer Raanjha,Dastaan,Aan Milo Sajna,Caravan,Paise Ki Gudiya,Laila Majnu and many more???!!!!
June 12th, 2006 at 11:59 am
Dear Nair,
If you bring all the singers in inida then also KISHORE will stand as tall as he is now.
Boss, Rafi’s workless doesn’t mean that he was not getting work, it means his work quantity was reduced and it was not as same as it was before 69.
If you count no. of songs in each year after 70’s then it would be very less.
Shankar, well said, people are here in music industry to make money and if kishore was so worst, according to RAFI FANS then why MDs preferred KISHORE over Rafi.
If you remove Kishore songs from RAJESH ROSHAN, BAPPI LAHIRI, SAPAN JAGMOHAN then they are nothing
My dear friends pls. accept the truth that Rafi ruled in 60’s’ n 70’s n later KISHORE was everywhere.
This history can’t be changed. It has been frozen already.