Did R.D.Burman really preferred KK over Rafi?
This article is written by Mr.H.V.Guru Murthy.
A regular browser to web site mohdrafi.com, having gone through the letters of Rafi lovers would assume that R D Burman did not utilize Rafi properly, instead he preferred Kishore Kumar. Because of this reason, Rafi Fans are still upset with RDB even though he passed away a decade back.
Yes, it is true that RDB preferred KK over Rafi during early seventies. For that matter, which Music Director or Actor or Producer or Director will not have his preference. It was well known that Raj Kapoor always preferred Mukesh, Manoj Kumar preferred Mukesh or Mahendra Kapoor, B.R.Chopra films had Mahendra, MD Ravi also had plenty of songs with Mahendra so also O.P after he broke with Rafi. Similarly OP always had either Asha or Geetha Dutt and never Lata. Salil also used all other Singers. Director Subba Rao insisted on Mukesh for SAATHI even though the hero was Rajendra Kumar and MD Naushad, two Rafi Fans. Even Kalyanji Anandji had many films with Mahendra Kapoor, Mukesh and KK even though Rafi was instrumental in their raise through JAB JAB PHOOL KHILE, AAMNE SAAMNE, etc. LP, by all means Rafi Bhakts, used KK regularly in the early seventies even for Rafi heroes like Jeetendra, Dharmendra, etc. SJ also switched over to KK in movies like MAIN SUNDAR HOON, DIL DAULAT DUNIYA, KAL AAJ AUR KAL, etc. Of course, the music standard came down a notch or two in that period. But, well, it is their prerogative to have whomsoever they wanted though I am sure in heart of heart, why even openly, they would have admitted the superiority of Rafi over all other Singers. Similarly, RDB also used KK for almost all his movies in the early seventies as perhaps he had some special chemistry with him.
However, let us not forget that RDB used Rafi extensively during late sixties as his main playback singer right from the first movie. He gave hit music with Rafi in TEESRI MANZIL, NAQLI NAWAAB, CARAVAN, PYAAR KA MAUSAM, THE TRAIN, ABHILASHA, ADHIKAR, RATON KA RAAJA, etc. Later during late seventies he returned to Rafi and gave hits like SHAAN, HUM KISISE KUM NAHIN, ABDULLAH, ZAMANE KO DIKHANA HAI, etc. In between, he had Rafi in CHANDI SONA qawali with Mannadey (Ek Shok Hasina Se), YADON KI BAARAT (Title song and who can forget the duet with Asha Chura Liya Hai Tumne), DIL KA BAADSHAH (this Raj Kumar starrer had all songs by Rafi), THE GREAT GAMBLER (Raftasa Mera Naam), SHEHZADA (Solo Tere Attaroo and duet with Lata Kaahe Ko Bulaya), etc.
If a person cannot appreciate the greatness of Rafi, then it can be safely concluded that the person does not have a sense of music. Of course, RDB was a good MD though not a great MD like Naushad, Madan Mohan, OP Nayyar, SDB, etc. RD would have definitely known the great qualities of Rafi, the Singer. Just because he did not use Rafi extensively as one would expect, let us not degrade this MD who gave us some good songs in CHANDAN KA PALNA, PADOSAN, HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA, MERE JEEVAN SAATHI, AJNABEE, AMAR PREM, SANAM TERI KASAM, BHOOT BANGLA, BAHARON KE SAPNE (Rafi solo Zamane Ne Maare), PARICHAY, KINAARA, APNA DESH, ZAHREELA INSAAN, RAMPUR KA LAKSHAMAN (Pyaar Ka Samay with Lata, KK and Rafi), 1942 – A LOVE STORY, KATI PATANG to certain extent, etc. though he gave some very mediocre music in films like DEEWAR, SHOLAY, KITAAB, ZAKHMEE, RAFOO CHAKKAR, NAMKEEN, DHARAM KARAM and BIWI O BIWI (so un-RK film like), etc. so many forgettable movies as for as music was concerned.
The irony of RDB was either he gave good music or petered out to a very mediocre music in so many films. I read some where that Shashi Kapoor called RD as National Anthem Music Director. In those days, theatres used to play National Anthem at the end of the movie and the Hall doors used to be shut till the completion of the Anthem. As soon as the Anthem used to commence, our in-disciplined people used to rush to the Hall Door and wait for the door opening. Similarly, whenever RDB songs commenced in most of the movies, people used to rush to toilet.
Still, it is not fair that we use harsh and sometimes, un-parliamentary language against any body if they differ with our views. We cannot forget the contribution of all these MDs, Heroes, Singers, Directors, etc. in making the Indian Film Music so rich.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:43 am
Ref Post 148
Western instruments are not the root cause of downfall of music, since such instruments were very effectively used by prior MDs i.e. SJ, C Ramachander, O P Nayyar, SDB, etc. But they maintained melody, using any type of instrument.
I agree with Harvindar Ji post fully.
With the success of Black & White films in color we will soon see a change in trend for quality music. ‘Naya Duar’ will be a big success, ‘Hum Dono’ to follow the same. Similarly we will see many more classics like ‘Pyaasa’, ‘Barsaat Ki Raat’, ‘Tere Ghar Ke Samne’, etc in color in the future. In other the Rafi era will be back and the present generation will soon have a glimpse of the golden era.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:23 am
Sunil Kumar : u are talking from ur hat.. like asha bhosle who thinks
rd burman is the best singer; she went on to hit the poor himesh
reshamiya for telling a home truth that rd sings from his nasals…too..
Just because madam benazir bought hare ram hara krishna songs :
r.d.burman becomes the greatest m.d.
good joke… Do u know how many songs of op nayyar, naushad, ravi
shankar jaikishan, khayyam , rajesh roshan , l & P and other geniouses
the people of pakistan including benazir bought in the last fifty years…
It will run in to millions of rupees.. I do get calls from music lovers
from around the world : they do not talk of r.d. burman .
they talk of legend music directors whom I just mentioned..
Do you know what naushad ji had said : his songs sell annually for
a crore or more …. even today in these days of remixes etc…
Are you aware that r.d.b,. used rafi saab in his initial days and enjoyed
success thereafter dumped rafi saab for three years. then rdb got
dumped and he went back to rafi saab who gave some glorious
career rebuilding hits for rdb.. this is in the records - sunil ji.
please see the records before giving mis-statements. But, remember
I will not dump r.d.burman .. He has
glorious works to his credit; but he also gave typical mediocre
numbers and highly forgettable works too…May I say he was good
in copying too.. May I say thay he was at the centrepoint of pulling
rafi saab down and depriving us of many many good numbers..
And , lastly if Rajesh Khanna s image suited Kishore Kumar, why
he took rafis voice - when he was a novice in films..
Little hard to answer.. sir..
Binu Nair.
August 3rd, 2007 at 2:14 am
RD preferred KK over Rafi for d simple reason dat kk used 2 pick up song very early dan rafi..Also Rafi used to do lots of retakes before final recording…RD wasnt comfortable wid dat…RD was no doubt a gud music director but he cant b termed as one of d greatest…He has been hyped out of d context because of a particular business strategy 2 promote none sense music (remixes) in india…and d strategist r successfull in dr design…RD also played his part in d downfall of indian music…wid d introduction of western instruments he actually led way 2 music directors of d likes of bapi lehri…just see d kind of music dat we had in post 70 phase ..barring few most of dem were rotten stuffs….
August 2nd, 2007 at 9:36 pm
Dear Sunil Kumar and your post 146 you ask a question “Why else remixes are mostly on RDB’s music”. My response
His commercial wife is Asha Bhonsle who is promoting her ex husband. His music does suit remixes. You will also notice programmes on RDB where Asha bhonsle is the promoter directly or indirectly.
Now can you answer as to why remixes are more on Asha Bhonsle songs and not Lata. Do you like to think that Asha is better than Lata ?? If you think that way than I will accept your claim that RDB was the best MD.
I have listened to Lata’s interviews and only names she mentions are Salil Chowdry, Shankar Jaikishan after Madan Mohan. I feel she knows about music and MD’s more than me atleast.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:53 pm
dear readers,
I want to all you learned persons know that RDB was one of the greatest music directors india has produces till date.
I still remember when benazir bhutto came here in 1972 with her late father
Z A bhutto she went out in Simla to buy the records of Hare Rama Hare Krishna .
Such was the popularity of RDB fisrt time in india Music directors were given due credits and college girls used to say ” Apne ko R D Burman Samajta Hai”.
he has used both RAfi & KK judiciously as and when required It really depended who the hero was and who suited him .
But I agree that he had great chemistry whith KK.
Songs like” chingari koi badhke, kabhi kabhi sapna lagta hai, O Hansini ” are just examples of this chemistry.
But we are failing when we donot recall “Teesri Mazil ” He used Rafi so well for shammi kapoor as the becoz his voice suited him . How can u say u did not used rafi when Rajesh Khanna ruled the industry at that time only Kishore was his voice.
Do you mean to say why Raj kapoor used only Mukesh It suited him.
RDb was music director ahead of his times.
Even today todays youth identifies with his songs and they are being remixeds by todays generation is the tribute to this great MD.
July 28th, 2007 at 10:04 pm
Rafi Shaib was never meant for the road side music quality of RD Burman’s Era as legends are legends Mr SD Burman was always upset as RD’s music what more can I say.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:32 pm
There used to be a running joke in Kolkata during the 70s that sd had his first heart attack when he heard “piya tu ab to aaja” and “veera tara tara tara… duniya mein logon ko”, and he died when he heard “mehbooba mehbooba…”. Please note that this is only a joke, without any offence to anyone.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:36 am
Hi P. Haldar,
Your post 132 poses a great question. Since the discussion is about LP, RD & KA, I agree with your assessments but I also think LP and RD both finished first together in the second race. In the first race, although LP won, KA had a great run then with great albums.
Coming to the third race, I think LP and Rajesh Roshan won, followed by RD, KA and others. Rajesh Roshan was the alternative to the Big Three (LP, KA, RD) from the mid-seventies onwards and what beautiful music he produced. He stood out on his own merit and his music had his own stamp and flavour. You are right, he assisted the great LP so ofcourse he has to be good. Laxmikant termed him as the last of the originals. RR may not have had the quantity that the Big Three had in that period (in terms of films), but quality wise he was no less. Just noting down some of his albums at that time, Julie, Doosra Aadmi, Kunwara Baap, Priyatama, Swami, Des Pardes, Inkaar, Swayamvar, Kaala Patthar, Dillagi, Unees Bees, Baaton Baaton Mein etc. all contain outstanding music. It is a shame RR had to wait another 25 years to win his next Filmfare award after Julie, the music from quite a few of his albums post Julie could have won him other awards. In the 80’s RR also had great albums but he wasn’t as consistent as earlier.
RD had great albums in the late seventies but IMO not as great as his previous works. Even in the early 80’s, he produced good music but in general that decade was also not that great for him. LP managed to be good in the 80’s and were more successful than RD, but they weren’t the same after Rafi passed away. Pyarelal mentioned they had hundreds of tunes in stock that they never used because the only person capable of singing them was Rafi. I am sure people would have remembered the 80’s much more had Rafi been there.
After Rafi saab left us, the quality work that most composers managed to come up with reduced. It was as if the ‘inspiration’ to produce excellent music was gone, and the overall quality of music in general went way down.
July 26th, 2007 at 5:26 pm
Ref. post 138 Manish Kumar: My post 103 had an element of generality involved in it, far from a case study “approach”. The post was only contextually meant for the article.
On your first para, first off, sorry for the nonfigurative language, a “have to” while drawing on the theory of music. Next, you might agree that in our cognition we all have a “musical port”, through which musical signals enter our cognition. The characteristics of the musical port cannot simply be said. Anyway, it is not an “open door” complex, what enters there depends on many factors such as the listeners’ family background, superego, social status, sophistication, and so on. In musically unaware teenagers, the musical port is generally nascent and closed. The musical signals coming from a deep classical number bounce after hitting the closed doors of their musical port. There is nothing in their cognition that can exert a force on the doors. However, repeated hearing (we can call it “intelligent listening”) can develop a familiarity with the signals which can ease the tightness of the doors, now signals are slowly filtering inside. In the case of the musical port of middle aged persons, their worldly experience, emotional stability, and similar factors exert pull on the doors. Apropos of RD-KK type tunes, the emphasis on speed and tessitura takes the musical signals to the teenagers’ musical port, it instead of entering the doors haloes the whole port, only to fade away as the listener matures. However, knowledge of music can always keep the port doors open. (At this point, I must reiterate Rafi’s skill in delivering complex compositions with such simplicity that it can wield an external force on firmly closed doors).
On your question on L&P: They were the ones most reflexive to the vicissitudes of music. They assimilated modernity not only by emphasizing on form but content as well. “John Jani Janardhan” is a wonderful introduction of polyphonic beats (even crash cymbals), it appears that they have to the extent employed refined recording techniques. They were the true assimilators of modernity, yet they neither plunged into modernity nor rejected formalism, but maintained an effective balance, which seems to be the reason why they are second to RD among teenagers (L&P compositions have only a semi-haloing effect). Your conclusion is squarely on the mark Mr. Manish Kumar: “LP had a long and versatile career”. They even enabled Kishore Kumar to break the mould, although not fully, of plain note singing. However, RD was not a mere “form” composer; he was a “content” composer also. He might have been driven by commercial concerns that he marched with the former image or might be to promote Kishore. Many of the well-informed Rafi historians have already harped on this point (I am ignorant of the waves in the industry)
July 26th, 2007 at 1:34 pm
Hi Manish,
RD-KK combo was great in 70s plus few hits in early 80s. Most FM radio channels mainly broadcast songs composed by RD. Courtesy Asha B. I don’t hear many KK songs composed by LP, KA, RR, etc on FM channels.
Regarding Rafi fans among the youth there are plenty excepts especially the ones who are classically trained. One can find different category of participates and judges appearing various musical competions. Most participants pefer to sing KK songs because changes of error are minimum. Very few attempt Rafi songs since they are difficult to sing, therefore chances of failure and lossing marks are prominent.
Coming to LP’s greatness they were king makers for many actors & singers in the 80s that too without a single use of Lata & Asha after the mid 80s.
“Mr. India” will be remembered for the song “Hawaa Hawai”, the song elevates Sridevi and Kavita Krishnamurthy. Similarly “Tezaab” will be remembered for the songs “Ek Do Teen”; “Kahdo Ke Tum” & “So Gayaa Ye Samaa”. Madhuri Dixit & Alka Yagnik at elevated. Similarly Anil Kapoor & Chunky Pandy get recognition through these songs.
Similar was LP’s success in “Ram Lakhan”. Moving ahead the films like “Agnipeeth”; “Hum” & “Khudaa Gawah” provide the Big B Amitabh Bachchan a new direction. Prior to that Big B had 4 major flops, “Tofaan”, “Jadugar”, “Indrajeet” & “Ganga Jamuna Saraswati”. None of these films had LP music. So one can imagine LP’s musical impact.
Film “Saudagar” gives a elevation to Manisha Koirala. Song “Emlli Ka Butaa” brought to egoistic icons Dilip Kumar & Raj Kumar (Jaani) together. The use of Maharashtra folk music in the songs and background music by LP was excellent. “Khalnayak” is remembered for “Choli Ke Peeche Kya Hai”, this elevates both Nina Gupta and singer Elaa Arun. Of course both were never seen in any other film there after.
The difference between and RD and LP approach was, LP were extra carefull when they composed music for big banner film makers like Subhash Ghai, Boney Kapoor, Mukul Anand, etc. Where as RD appears to be casual in approach or may be his music didn’t click considering films like “Manzil Manzil” & “Zabardust” produced by Nazir Hussein. RD lost this big banner there after 20 years of association starting from “Teesri Manzil”.
July 26th, 2007 at 1:39 am
i think LP is very underrated and don’t get enough credit for some very obvious points of greatness - ESPECIALLY by the young populations - although middle aged people are equally guilty.
July 26th, 2007 at 1:38 am
anmol singh: your post shows the how great, consistent, and versatile LP were. i cannot for the life of me understand why RDB is SO MUCH better remembered than the LP-Rafi combination among youths. don’t get me wrong - youths love LP & Rafi - but RDB+KK just dominates. It surely isn’t because of true greatness - because during the times LP was winning. You can have ties, but I would not put LP below top 3 - they were GREAT composers with the longest, most consistent career among ANY. They produced some amazing gems. Rafi & Lata worked the most with them. One of my favorite Kishore songs “Yeh Jeevan Hai” or one of the many favorite Rafi-Lata duets “Yeh Zulf Kaise” from Piya Ka Ghar are from LP. Even after Rafi Sahab left us, these guys were able to continue strong for another 18 years - see the songs of Deewana Mastana 1998 by Alka Yagnik - amazing composers! Love them!
July 26th, 2007 at 1:32 am
Nair: your post is the most intriguing to me. I believe that I understand the “face” of your arguments and agree with them - but don’t intimately understand what you are saying as it is not simple. Your passage almost reminded me of the standard reading comprehension exams in the states e.g. the SATs or MCATs. Let me clarify some points though: You say that RDB introduced the plain note style of composing / singing whereas Naushad had something more sophisticated (no doubt that Naushad put emphasis on classical renditons). You’re saying that it is easier to grasp the essence of RDB’s composition without requiring musical experience / “sophistication”. A middle aged man has had enough years of experience listening to such music that he is now matured or “sophisticated” enough to grasp the shades of greatness in a song like “Mere Mehboob Tujhe”. Indeed, the latter song was GREAT in many subtle shades and only after multiple attempts could I slowly enjoy each word of that masterpiece of a song.
My question to you then is this: how about LP? When I was a child in the 1990s I instantly loved songs like “Salamat Rahe Dostana Hamara” or “John Johnny Janardhan” or (no suprise RDB) - “Kaun Kisiko Bandh Sakega”. Why is it JUST RDB that has this benefit - LP was beating him handily in the 80s, they weren’t always classically intense like Naushad, they also had fun songs like RD (and some probably did have the plain note style that youngsters immediately love - LP had a long and versatile career).
There are hundreds of composers, dozens of GREAT composers - why is RD the most popular among youngsters by far? Go to HamaraCD, see the top 20 songs - 98% are KK+RDB. Was RD the ONLY one to grasp that simple concept you mentioned? These things really throw me off. I can see your argument against Naushad - I cannot extend it for every other composer though - as seems to be the case. Although your argument is a compelling one.
What do you say?
July 25th, 2007 at 8:51 pm
ref post 136:
Anmol ji, thanks for such a detailed analyis of the post-1980 period. Except for a few films like saagar, namak halal, love story, kudrat, masoom, 1942, I don’t know about most of the songs you’ve mentioned in the post. When I get the time, I’ll listen to the lp songs you’ve mentioned, but I have no desire to listen to boppi da’s songs. About suresh wadkar, you are right. I heard a song “seene me jalan” composed by jaidev which was really very good. I also saw a video where he sing at an o p nayyar nite in dubai. if I remember correctly, he sang “Aanchal mein saja lena kaliya” and before he started he said that he was very apprehensive about delivering a “bahut hi zabardast” singer’s song. OP and Manohari Singh were on the stage too.
I grew up with pancham’s bangla songs and, despite his anti-rafi bias, he still remains part of my youth. From what you’ve described, he must have been in dire straits after 1985. I agree that rafi saab could have helped him, especially with the semi-classical, folk and soft romantic songs. One thing I know for sure is that he would have sung for him free if he knew that pancham was facing financial problems.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:46 pm
Ref Post 135,
Mr Haldar Ji,
After Rafi death music dynamics started changing immediately. 1981 saw the rise of actor Kumar Gaurav, which also brought Amit Kumar into limelight. Plus RD won 2 filmfare awards in 1981 & 1983, perhaps his first one in 1981. Between 1981 & 1983 he gave a number of hits with KK and Amit Kumar. Quiet a number of his songs were hits. To name a few movies composed by RD.
‘Kudrat’, ‘Barsaat Ki Ek Raat’, ‘Shakti’, ‘Sanam Teri Kasam’, ‘Masoom’, ‘Satte Pe Satta’, ‘Agar Tum Na Hote’, ‘Shaukeen’, ‘Love Story’, ‘Namkeen’, ‘Dard Ka Rishta’.
1983 also saw few big banner flops by RD – Mahaan, Nastik, Pukar, etc. This was the trigger point of RD’s downfall.
Parallely Bhappi L was gradually on the rise. Namak Halal in 1982 elevated his position as music composer. Then in 1984 - Sharrabi elevated him futher where he started competing with established composers like LP, KA, RR.
Coming back to Pancham in 1984 he could not provide any hit though he gave music in many films. In 1985 he just had one hit ‘Saagar’, perhaps the last best composition for KK. In 1986 again no success. In 1987 only one hit - ‘Ijazzt’.
Analysing LP after Rafi’s death where the most effected. But they used many new comers like Shabbir Kumar, Anwar, Munna Aziz (Rafi Clones) very effectively. Plus they used Ghazal singers like Manhar, Pankaj Udhas and above all Suresh Wadkar. Compare to all Suresh being classically trained can be rated as the best amoung all.
To name a few – “Sari Duniya Ka Bojh Hum Utha Te Hai”, “Jeet Janyenge Hum”, “Dil Diya Hai Jaan Bhi Denge”, “Tum Se Mil Ke Naa Jaane Kyon“, “Pyar Kiya Nahi Jaata Hai”, “Mohabat Ab Tejara Bann Gaye Hai”, “Zindagi Imtihaan Leti Hai”, “Teri Mehbaniyan”, “Dil Beqrar Tha Dil Beqrar Hai“, “Aaj Kal Yaad Kuch”, etc. LP made many non filmy singers sing marvelous filmy songs; “Chiti Ayee Hai Ayee Hai Chiti Ayee” by Ghazal Singer Pankaj Udhas is truly mind blowing. They even used Manhar Udhas for the songs of ‘Hero’. Manhar Udhas was used very well by KA in ‘Jaanbaz’. The song ‘Har Kisi Ko Nahi Malta’ is very well sung.
With Suresh Wadker LP composed - “Saajh Dhale Gagan Tale”, “Chal Chameli Baag Mein”, songs of Prem Rog where he sang for Rishi Kapoor, “Likhanewaale ne likh daale milne ke” a duet with Lata from the film ‘Arpan’ is truly mind blowing.
Just try putting Rafi Saab’s voice for the above songs and one can imagine the difference. All the above songs could have been evergreen (Sadaa Bahaar) till date if sung by Rafi himself. It is incredible that LP could maintian their position without Rafi in the 80s.
Coming back to Pancham, he also composed hits without KK in the 80s. A ghazal with Bhupindar from ‘Masoom’, “Huzoor Is Kadar Bhi Na Etras Ke Chalie”, a super performance by Suresh under Pancham. The song “Tujh Se Naraaz Nahi Zindagi” sung by Anup Ghoshal is also good. I believe KK could have done a better job here. He used Shabbir Kumar along with Lata in ‘Betaab’ very well and one unforgettable score sung by Anwar, “Koi Pardesi Ayaa Pardes Main”. This is one of the best song sung by Anwar, full credit goes to Pancham for this marvelous composition. But this did not really benefit RD in true sense.
So with the success of Bhappi Lahiri, music market in 80s got divided into 2 catgories. First is the quality music where LP were associated mostly with big banner film makers. Second was the sub standard music where Bhappi Lahri was the ruler. The rise of sub standard music was due to the Jeetendra- Sridevi, Jayaprada, Kader Khan & Shakti Kapoor series of films where Bhappi L was the main composer. Surprising KK, Lata & Asha sang for most of these films. Out of the old composers KA, RR, Usha Khanna, Khayyam, etc gave music in very few films but continued to manage at least one hit per year.
Coming back to RD in the mid 80s he tried to get a share in the sub stardard music category where he had lowered his price. Possibly this was RD’s biggest mistake where in the long run he lost touch with many big banner film makers completely. Why ? May be because KK, Asha where contributing more under this category. Similarly from mid-80s onwards one doesn’t see Lata & Asha singing many LP songs. LP used Kavita Krishnamurthy, Alka Yagnik & Anuradha P equally well.
With the death of KK in 1987 brough an end to Bhappi L and the era of sub standard music as well. 1988 we see the entry of new composers Anand-Milind later Nadeem Sharvan and Jatin-Latin. Once again a change in musical trend. Since RD had lost touch with the big banner film makers, it was diffcult to make a come back with new singers, since his success criteria was very much KK dependent. His over dependency with KK took a tol of him later. Rather RD got beaten by both sub standard music and big banner film makers. It was a time in late 80s where RD had to literally go from door to door to get quality work, which tool a tol of his health. One feels very Sad and unfortunate for RD.
But thanks to Vidhu Vinod Chopra who helped RD to come out of his lean phase through the scores of ‘Parinda’ & ‘1942 Love Story’. Finally RD died with a good name.
Had Rafi Saab lived in the 80s all this could have never happened to RD. Plus sub standard music share could have been substantial. That was the power & influence of Rafi the great.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
ref post 134:
Anmolji, thanks for sharing your views; I guessed as much. It’s interesting how you break the 1977-83 period into two time frames. I can understand why rd bounced back after 1980. But tell me one thing: when did this boppi da edge out rd? In our times, boppi da used to be called the “poor man’s rd”. I haven’t followed the post-1980 period closely but I’ve read reports that rd lost his market to boppi da. Is that true? If true, it’s a real shame.
July 24th, 2007 at 10:10 am
“First, tell me if you agree with my assessments and then tell me who you think won the third race.” 1977-83 Period
1st Position - LP
2nd Position - RD
3rd Position - RR, KA
4th Position - Bhappi, Usha Khanna
5th Position - Ram Laxman
6th Position - Anu Malik
Possibly the 1977-80 needs to be broken into 1977-80 & 1981-83. There will be different results. The first phase is totally LP dominated where as after Rafi’s death the next phase is RD domination, but not much difference between LP and RD.
July 24th, 2007 at 9:59 am
ref post 127:
venkatji, you are better than an encyclopedia. I was aware of the approximate sd, naushad, sj, op, lp and rd numbers, but had no idea that chittragupt and usha khanna composed so many songs for the farishta. Wow chittragupt! He was always the dark horse. This year marks the 50th anniversary of “chal ud jaa re paanchi”. Here is a clip on some songs of chittragupt that will be released soon:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=2l3i2S4StV8
Venkatji, can you please increase sd’s number — cheat if you must — by one to 97? I was thinking of Vishy’s 97 not out against the W. Indies at Chepauk in 1975. Vishy, one of my favourite batsmen, is a great fan of the farishta. SD’s 97 with rafi is also one of the best unbeaten innings, better than most centuries.
July 24th, 2007 at 9:12 am
ref post 126:
myk, I like rajesh roshan’s music a lot and, based on your prodding, listened to the kishore-lata-rafi song from doosra aadmi after a long time. you are right, rafi makes a brilliant late entry with “yeh mastiyan yeh bahar”. RR has to be good; after all, they assisted the duo that composed “roshan tumhi se duniya”. The duo that composed gems like “hui sham unka khayal aa gaya” and “jo unki tamanna hai barbad hoja” for the farishta. Wouldn’t it have been great if the junior Chittragupts had used the farishta in their debut film like junior Burman, junior roshan and junior malik did? They would have but by the time they made their entry, the farishta had left us.
The rhetorical question that the author of this article has posed pertains to a very eventful period in the history of hindi film music, the years between 1969 and 1977. rr made his debut in the mid 70s. So the context of the discussion is confined to the 3-way race between ka, lp and rd, with the old patriarch running on a separate track, but always keeping his eyes on his errant children.
For the sake of argument, suppose there are three independent 100m sprints, one in the 1963-69 period, the second in the 1970-76 period and the third in the 1977-83 period. In my opinion, lp won the first race, followed by ka and rd. In the second race, I think rd won with ka and lp tied for the second spot. First, tell me if you agree with my assessments and then tell me who you think won the third race.
July 23rd, 2007 at 2:03 pm
People in the industry were waiting in the wings to pull down
Raafi saaheb. When raafi decided to take a break around 1970,
the scheming caucus sprang to action.
Composers waited and then switched over to Kishor Kumar. Jr burman
-the sisters-sr.burman and others boldly declared through their
accomplices - that rafi days are ov er.
But, they never realized that raa fi ji will stage a triumphant return.
they could never stop the raa fi tide..
Raafi went away in 1980 - with his head held high as the numero uno
singer of the hindi screen.
Lets pay homage to rafi saheb this July 31 at his resting place : opp
santacruz police station , next to j u h u gardens, Mumbai..
Rafi lovers : we will meet up there.
binu nair. binus2000@hotmail.com
July 23rd, 2007 at 9:42 am
Everybody knows RD preferred Kishore Kumar,the greatest singer of all times.
July 23rd, 2007 at 9:05 am
clarification: i do realize that the last two lata-kishore duets were not composed by lp, but the one that is my current favorite is indeed by lp
also, i understand that “hit” is very subjective and depends on how you analyze the weekly/monthly charts.
July 23rd, 2007 at 9:01 am
I reiterate again: I don’t think it was LP alone not being strong enough to retain Rafi - it was the other factors. I personally rank LP as one of the best - they gave IMMORTAL gems and for the longest time too! My favorite Kishore-Lata duet is “Accha To Hum Chalte Hain” although “Jai Jai Shiv Shankar” and “Chai Pe Bulaiya” spring to mind too (you can imagine how much I’d have loved to attend the Wembley Concert in 1983 where Kishore and Lata performed - the live versions were even better than the recordings! Kishore was at his best in that concert”. One of my favorite Kishore songs is “Yeh Jeevan Hai” from Piya Ka Ghar. Really love it when Kishore sings barritone. LP were EXCELLENT - they just had to yield to the wave of a new music and voice - they always held their ground and in the end they won the marathon against RDB. RDB alone did not beat LP - it was Rajesh Khanna, changing times, etc. Don’t want to repeat myself - I think I addressed my thoughts earlier.
Are you guys sure about the stats for 1977-1980? I was told by a reliable source that Mohammed Rafi was used by MDs more than Kishore Kumar and these stats contradict that. Maybe I was wrong. I also heard from a reliable source (granted - he’s a Raffian so he may be biased hahaha) that when he was around in those times - he noticed Rafi have more hits than Kishore from the 1977-1980 period.
July 23rd, 2007 at 7:44 am
Friends,
Incidentally, R.D.Burman (a dubious Rafi Fan!) has recorded a total of 122 songs (43 solos, 65 duets and 14 group songs) with Rafi Saab. His father, S.D.Burman, a confirmed and ardent Rafi Fan, had recorded a total of 96 songs (47 solos, 45 duets and 4 group songs) with Rafi Saab. But, considering that SDB’s total no. of songs must be far far less than that of RDB, even SDB’s lesser 96 Rafi songs must be accounting for a very high percentage of SDB’s total songs.
Also, by the way, RDB has the Rank 9 among all MDs in the order of total number of Rafi songs. The first ten ranks are as below:
1.LP—369
2.SJ—341
3.Chitragupta—248
4.Ravi—235
5.OPN–197
6.Kalyanji Anandji–169
7.Madan Mohan–160
8.Naushad–149
9.RDB–122
10.Usha Khanna–116
Now, friends, aren’t you surprised with the high ranks of Chitragupta, Ravi and Usha Khanna? I indeed was when I first came to know of these!
Venkat
July 23rd, 2007 at 7:42 am
Hi P. Haldar,
As usual another brilliant post. Interesting how you mention K-A vis a vis Kishore, in my view after the Burmans comes Rajesh Roshan as the composer who used Kishore’s voice the best. K-A have used the big three (rafi, kishore, mukesh) all very nicely.
For me, the best Kishore-Rafi duets come from RR as does the best Kishore-Lata-Rafi duet “Kya Mausam Hai” (Doosra Aadmi). Only a very talented musician could have composed such a song with changing moods. I would rank this as one of the top three Rafi entry songs, the way he comes in with “yeh mastiyan yeh bahar” is mindblowing.
I have mentioned this before, I rank Pancham highly but like you, I feel he was blind-sighted by KK too much. I love the way RD used the guitar in his songs, he was truly an innovator in that sense, the way he merged the guitar into his songs. An interesting aspect about Pancham’s music is his use of the bass guitar or just a guitar as part of the main rhythm. This comes in two aspects, one is the guitar being used throughout the song, and secondly only during selective parts of the rhythm. For example listen to “Pyar Hai Ik Nishan” from Mukti, you will notice the guitar come only at the end of the rhythm pattern. Pancham even used the guitar in his classical compositions along with the tabla, this was part of his experimentation and this was his “sound”. If you want to hear RD in SD’s films, listen to the way the guitar has been merged in the rhythm, SD’s handling of rhythm was totally different.
Pancham was also excellent at chord-based compositions, SJ were also fantastic in this regard.
Listen to Rafi’s “Aye Jaan-e-Wafa” from Chhalia (1973). I have mentioned this song in the past, and I am mentioning it again because I adore it, it ranks as one of the best RD-Rafi songs for me. This is proof that if the two had come together more often during that period, the output would have been amazing. The guitar work is amazing, as the rhythm is great.
Some more excellent and under-rated RD-Rafi gems:
sanson mein kabhi (with asha) - parchhaiyan (1972)
mohabbat se tumhe dekha (with lata) - raaton ka raja (1970)
door se tera diwana (with asha) - raaton ka raja (1970)
jab ek kaza se guzro to - devta (1978)
champa khili daar - faisla (1988)
koi aur duniya mein - pyar ki kahani (1971)
mohabbat mein aji kya (with lata) - fandebaaz (1978)