Did R.D.Burman really preferred KK over Rafi?
This article is written by Mr.H.V.Guru Murthy.
A regular browser to web site mohdrafi.com, having gone through the letters of Rafi lovers would assume that R D Burman did not utilize Rafi properly, instead he preferred Kishore Kumar. Because of this reason, Rafi Fans are still upset with RDB even though he passed away a decade back.
Yes, it is true that RDB preferred KK over Rafi during early seventies. For that matter, which Music Director or Actor or Producer or Director will not have his preference. It was well known that Raj Kapoor always preferred Mukesh, Manoj Kumar preferred Mukesh or Mahendra Kapoor, B.R.Chopra films had Mahendra, MD Ravi also had plenty of songs with Mahendra so also O.P after he broke with Rafi. Similarly OP always had either Asha or Geetha Dutt and never Lata. Salil also used all other Singers. Director Subba Rao insisted on Mukesh for SAATHI even though the hero was Rajendra Kumar and MD Naushad, two Rafi Fans. Even Kalyanji Anandji had many films with Mahendra Kapoor, Mukesh and KK even though Rafi was instrumental in their raise through JAB JAB PHOOL KHILE, AAMNE SAAMNE, etc. LP, by all means Rafi Bhakts, used KK regularly in the early seventies even for Rafi heroes like Jeetendra, Dharmendra, etc. SJ also switched over to KK in movies like MAIN SUNDAR HOON, DIL DAULAT DUNIYA, KAL AAJ AUR KAL, etc. Of course, the music standard came down a notch or two in that period. But, well, it is their prerogative to have whomsoever they wanted though I am sure in heart of heart, why even openly, they would have admitted the superiority of Rafi over all other Singers. Similarly, RDB also used KK for almost all his movies in the early seventies as perhaps he had some special chemistry with him.
However, let us not forget that RDB used Rafi extensively during late sixties as his main playback singer right from the first movie. He gave hit music with Rafi in TEESRI MANZIL, NAQLI NAWAAB, CARAVAN, PYAAR KA MAUSAM, THE TRAIN, ABHILASHA, ADHIKAR, RATON KA RAAJA, etc. Later during late seventies he returned to Rafi and gave hits like SHAAN, HUM KISISE KUM NAHIN, ABDULLAH, ZAMANE KO DIKHANA HAI, etc. In between, he had Rafi in CHANDI SONA qawali with Mannadey (Ek Shok Hasina Se), YADON KI BAARAT (Title song and who can forget the duet with Asha Chura Liya Hai Tumne), DIL KA BAADSHAH (this Raj Kumar starrer had all songs by Rafi), THE GREAT GAMBLER (Raftasa Mera Naam), SHEHZADA (Solo Tere Attaroo and duet with Lata Kaahe Ko Bulaya), etc.
If a person cannot appreciate the greatness of Rafi, then it can be safely concluded that the person does not have a sense of music. Of course, RDB was a good MD though not a great MD like Naushad, Madan Mohan, OP Nayyar, SDB, etc. RD would have definitely known the great qualities of Rafi, the Singer. Just because he did not use Rafi extensively as one would expect, let us not degrade this MD who gave us some good songs in CHANDAN KA PALNA, PADOSAN, HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA, MERE JEEVAN SAATHI, AJNABEE, AMAR PREM, SANAM TERI KASAM, BHOOT BANGLA, BAHARON KE SAPNE (Rafi solo Zamane Ne Maare), PARICHAY, KINAARA, APNA DESH, ZAHREELA INSAAN, RAMPUR KA LAKSHAMAN (Pyaar Ka Samay with Lata, KK and Rafi), 1942 – A LOVE STORY, KATI PATANG to certain extent, etc. though he gave some very mediocre music in films like DEEWAR, SHOLAY, KITAAB, ZAKHMEE, RAFOO CHAKKAR, NAMKEEN, DHARAM KARAM and BIWI O BIWI (so un-RK film like), etc. so many forgettable movies as for as music was concerned.
The irony of RDB was either he gave good music or petered out to a very mediocre music in so many films. I read some where that Shashi Kapoor called RD as National Anthem Music Director. In those days, theatres used to play National Anthem at the end of the movie and the Hall doors used to be shut till the completion of the Anthem. As soon as the Anthem used to commence, our in-disciplined people used to rush to the Hall Door and wait for the door opening. Similarly, whenever RDB songs commenced in most of the movies, people used to rush to toilet.
Still, it is not fair that we use harsh and sometimes, un-parliamentary language against any body if they differ with our views. We cannot forget the contribution of all these MDs, Heroes, Singers, Directors, etc. in making the Indian Film Music so rich.
Ganeshji, I fully agree with you. The duet from MAYA – “Tasveer Teri Dilme” is a very good song, sung beautifully by both Rafi and Lata. But if observed closely, Lata’s efforts seems to be laborious while singing at high pitch, her voice becomes shrill where as Rafi’s voice is very steady even at high pitch. I personally feel, Lata is a great Singer, but at high pitch, her voice always became shrill, where as voices of Rafi, Mannadey and Mahendra Kapoor used to be very steady even at high pitch. Recall songs like “Zindabad Zindabad” from Mugha-E-Azam, “Na Muh Chupake Jiyo” from Humraaz, “O Duniya Ke Rakhawale” from Baiju Bawra, “Subaha Na Aayi” from Cha Cha Cha, etc.
Mr RD Burman was born as a single child to legendary MD SD Burman in 1939. Md Rafi Saheb was already an established singer in 1946. RD Burman started calling himself great by 1966 (Post Teesri Manzil) and started critisizing near perfect voice of Mohd Rafi to steal limelight.
He worked under his dad and carried on the seniority to his advantage. Anybody who listens to RDB’s singing and not condemning must be a fanatic. It is something like Amitabh’s son Abhishek became superstar within a year. Rather than calling RDBurman great and in turn insulting music and real greats like Madan Mohan, Shankar Jaikishan etc, RD BUrman and Asha husband wife pair should be called as commercial greats.
I will want to write more within a few days on this subject and welcome anyone who can correct me.
I do not know whether it is appropriate to condemn RD on this forum, but reading his comments about Rafi saheb do not seem right.
He is the only music director other than Anil Biswas who have spoken indiffrenetly about Rafi saheb. I remember listning to special programme on Air India flight by Asha Bhonsle. She mentioned that When Aaja Aaja was to be recorded for Teesri Manzil, Asha was apprehensive of taking it on and RDB told her not to turn it down, but take a week or so to reherse and then decide on whether to accept or decline this number. When querried by Asha as to the male singer’s comments on singing this number. RDB stated that Rafi Saheb had accepted the song unconditionally. Only on hearing this that asha took up the challenge. Soft spoken and underplaying Rafi Saheb and loud mouth RDB are gone. Could someone approach Asha Bhonse for clarification. TRust me I heard Asha’s voice in that programme.
What is RDB as compared to Rafi Saheb. RDB does not figure in best five MD’s of Lata She called Madan Mohan, SJ, Salil Chaudhrey etc her favorites. No other personality other than Asha Bhonsle raves about RDB as the greatest for commercial reasons. RDB’s linking OPN-Rafi chemistry to being Punjabis. Thank God one was hindu and the other a muslim, otherwise RDB might have thrown religious bond also.
ref post 290:
naveen ji, give me a couple of weeks, and I’m going to respond in kind. It has been a one-way street all along (form raju to the world); we’ll give it back in kind. It’s going to get ugly.
Why is raju bharatan not “reporting” that r.d.b. recorded songs
in the voice of rafi saab , gave it to Kishore saab and then
recorded in KKs vocals……
the songs are : Mere sapnon ki raani kab aayegi tu; roop tera
mastana and the released Pyar ka Mausam number : tum bin,
jaoon kahan, duniya me aake……
raju want’s to rake in controversy like raakhi so that his
columns are widely read..
rafi lovers please do not become victims of their personal agendas..
binu nair………
Who is liar and who is lieing….
r.d.b or raju bharatan ; well i have a clue.
a naushaad ali saab aide tells me : composers make the singers
sing. all the singers make ‘great mistakes’ like singing, like
all we individuals in real life..do….
that’s why when senior singers are being rehearsed the composers
do not allow any outsider to come to the ‘rehearsal rooms’.
only rafi saab has acknowledged the composers role..
o.p.nayyar gives credit : 50% to the lyricists, 25 each to the
composer and the singer.
does anyone know that in a joint recording of asha-kishore
composer pyarelal walked off since KK was not calling the
“tune” right. only laxmikant and asha saved the day – for kishore da.
these things always happen and hence r.d.b. and raju have
their own “axes” to grind – if ever such episodes … ever happened.
binu nair.. the rafi foundation…. mumbai..
Can anybody even imagine the song “Aaja Aaja” from Teesri Manzil by any other Singers other than Rafi and Asha. Either RDB did not know what he was taking or Raju Bharatan has misquoted RDB either unknowingly or knowingly to create controversy and gain cheap popularity, no sorry, notoreity.
Naveen,
RD makes a comment that Rafi Saab had issues grasping the nuances of the Teesri Manzil song. RD also states that he had a tough time dealing with him in the’Tumne Mujhe Dekha’ song. More importantly, he talks of the Punjabi comfort level that Rafi saab had with OP Nayyar.
Lata stops singing with Rafi Saab as he allegedly struggled with the ‘Tasveer..’ Maya song, as a much-needed excuse for a break-up due to the Royalty issue.
On the other hand,
Anandji (of the KA duo) mentions that Rafi Saab was extremely fast at pick-up (the same person who utilized Kishore a lot more than Rafi)
OP in the special Jaymala radio program mentions the same unique grasping prowess of M Rafi.
Rajesh Roshan mentioned that M Rafi never needed a take-home spool for picking up a song and was always ready when needed , obviously referring to Kishore who preferred this as habituated by RD
Laxmikant Pyaralel clearly mentioned that Rafi Saab was the only singer who could sing 6 songs in a day for them, when recording techiniques were not as advanced as they are today, a feat that they admired a lot.
None of the other MDs who worked with Rafi (Naushad, Madan mohan, SD, Ravi, Roshan, SJ etc) have never mentioned anything about Rafi’s struggles with “nuances”, even though the level of difficulty of their Rafi songs was much higher that RD.
So I have no option but to take these comments from RD with a “pinch of salt”. The “Punjabi” comfort he talks about only show the regional prejudice that RD and other such MDs have been perenially suffering from.
As far as the Maya song is concerned, the end result shows that Rafi handled the “antara” much better than Lata. His “Jahan hai Kadam Mere..” is extremely smooth and effortless, whereas Lata had to scream at the top of her lungs for “Naino ka Kajra” to achieve the desired effect….I would urge you to listen to the song very carefully.
And for my final 2 cents, Rafi has sung the ‘Aaja Aaja” much more effortlessly and eloquently than Asha who overdid the part in an enthusiam to prove that she could do it better than Rafi, as a bet that she keeps talking about in her interviews. And by the way, she had rehearsed 15 times for the song for the same reason… did RD mention that?
Cheers.
Ganesh
P. Haldar,
Just to follow up on your post # 263. In reference to my previous posts about L-P’s success, I was mentioning how L-P were successful and reached the top spot due to the quality they produced. If S-J didn’t have their problems, I feel they would have continued to be the top MD’s. This does not mean S-J didn’t produce quality 1970 and onwards, ofcourse they did. I feel S-J produced quality all the time, right from their debut, all the way up to Jai’s passing away, and even after, when Shankar was composing solo, he still managed to come up with good music.
There are two Rafi songs composed by Jai in 1970 from the film ‘Bhai Bhai’ that are diamonds, they are, “Mere Mehboob Tere Dam Se” and “Ek Tera Sundar Mukhda”. These two are really beautiful gems, and show yet again that Jaikishan was the master at love songs.
Naveen – that is the problem – I tried to do the same. But that site is such trash that they don’t post the feedback!
Halder Sahib,
Ref post 272. I am in total agreement with you.We must protest with reason.We can’t let Mr Bhartan distort the history. Do you have any ideas as to what we could do , though. Perhaps posting comments on the HT side where this article appeared or writing to the editor may be a good start.
Thanks
Naveen
ref post 281
Mohamed: I’m not sure if RD Burman was a racist (I *think* some of his training was by Ustads and so it is likely he’d be aware of the beauty of the relgion) but I do agree 100% that Raju Bharathan was a racist. It must have hurt Raju Bharathan to see Rafi Sahab rule the 60s. I didn’t want to bring up that issue because it is very sensitive. It is a shame that this guy will try to drag RD Burman’s name into this and give him a false, image.
Ignore what this garbage writer has to say – he will have no impact on Rafi Sahab whose golden voice is like eternal sunlight that is always there.
Post 281.. please keep aside communal feelings from this site…
binu nair… the rafi foundation…
Post # 285: If Raju Bharathan hates Rafi Saheb, then I hate this Raju Bharathan infinite times.
so this writer frequently likes to defame rafi sahab. his quotes are often very suspicious. he has given suspicious quotes SUPPOSEDLY from rafi sahab, talat, rd burman, etc. a lot of his articles could very easily be fabricated – it is criminal.
hussein sheik,
exactly. i highly doubt rd burman said those things. this raju bharathan HATES mohd rafi. i don’t know why and it isn’t worth thinking about. he is the same person who tried to start trouble against rafi sahab with anil biswas and kishore kumar + public lashed at him. this trashy writer made baseless insulting remarks again & again against rafi sahab – the worst when he called rafi sahab’s “baabul ke dua” from neel kamal a “vocal gimmick”. this is the song, as you probably know, where rafi sahab cried because he remembered his own daughter whom he gave away 2 days before. music director ravi was extremely happy with the sincere rendition – else he could have asked for a retake. don’t waste your time / thought on this trashy writer – ignore him. i wish he could be charged in court for defamation but there’s little legal proof as rdb is no longer alive and this so called interview was 17 years ago. in a country where arrest warrants are issued against richard gere & shilpha for something silly – we can’t do something against unlawful defamation of an angel who is the pride and joy of this country? well, at least raju bharatan got his press and at least he’ll be REMEMBERED (unfortunately) for that anil biswas piece – he must be happy. doesn’t matter – he’ll never be able to make a dent on rafi sahab’s immortality or prevent the many many new generations of fans who will be in awe of the everlasting voice.
– Manish
The greatness of s.d.b. dada or the finesse of roshan saaab
their wards could never reach…..
but they are better than other kids of famous men and women..
remember – nothing can surpass ‘quality’ or ‘originality” they
become immortal…..
i totally disagree with r.d.b ‘s conduct towards the king of
playback singhing – farishta mohd rafi… who had this strange
habit of giving the roses in his backyard – a bad name, unlike
the 99% composers who worshipped – rafi saab.
binu nair….
refer to d post 265,,
it was nothing more than cheap publicity stunt by mentally sick raju bhartan…
he also maligned rdb’s name through this crap…
Mr. XXX, (Ref Post 276):
Yes, RR definitely was great in his early period, and during that time he gave outstanding music. True, RD was a trend-setter and the reason why I said I feel Rajesh Roshan was also a trend-setter is due to the type of music he created, and he brought something new to HFM. Yes, you could say that RR’s music at times had the RD “aroma”, there may be some similarities between their music, but in my view RR’s music was different. I feel Bappi Lahiri was more of an RD copy, from his rhythm to his arrangements. Bappi also had his own style of music, but he was also from the RDB school. RR’s music on the other hand was not based on the RDB school, but was original and creative. The style he brought was totally new and refreshing at the time, which is why I consider him a trend-setter.
RR’s rhythm was also unique and different. He introduced many rhythm patterns that became a part of his signature, one example is the ‘muted congo’ rhythm, and his percussion was different than that of other composers, including RD. The style in which he used the drums, bongo’s, tabla etc. was his own too. In many songs, you can notice the trademark RR percussion that became his hallmark. As I said before, there may be some similarities between RR’s and RD’s music, and this includes rhythm as well, but RR’s rhythm patterns were different and his own.
I feel RR’s orchestra was also different from that of anyone as well. If you take a look at RR songs, you’ll notice the unique way in which he uses his violins, and arranges his instruments, all in his own style.
To be called a great music director, or a music director of merit, one must show consistency of quality over an extended period of time. One must also bring something new by way of style to their work, something by which the listener can identify the music director with. Rajesh Roshan fits this description, which is why I consider him a great MD for the innovative and trend-setting music he made. Every music director has their share of inconsistencies, including RR, but that should not take anything away from their achievements. RR also has quality albums in every decade, 70’s, 80’s, 90’s and the current decade.
Composers such as Nadeem-Shravan, Anu Malik and others have used RR’s musical grammar in their compositions. So just like SJ and RDB set a musical grammar used by other composers in their songs, RR also set a grammar used by composers as well. This is another aspect that makes RR a great MD.
Yes, Ravindra Jain was great as well, and had his own nice style of music. Out of all the debutantes in the 70’s, I feel RR brought the most freshness, and all of them made great music during that time.
Soon I will share some interesting things on one of RDB’s greatest experiments that also involves Rafi saab.
Cheers
he was racist without doubt a strict hindu rdb
thats reason he couldnot understand the great RAFISAAB
Raju bharatan ..seems to start some contoversy everytime. he is considered good journalist but with his latest article on HT “Pancham visited”, his article talk abt more that how rafi is inferior that KK and asha. Article doesn’t talk abt overall music.
i doubt that RD ever said that or raju may be making it who knows. not sure what can be done now to counter that.
mind it RD peak time was till 75-76 as everybody gets it chance to luck. as with time, music changed and in last years. he was literally out of work, it doesn’t take away his greatness and work.
for me Rafi sa’b and KK were compliment to each others. true gems for HFM. rafi saheb was more versatile than KK. KK was at his best in plain straightforward songs with his voice.
more than KK talent, it was time, change of music, public taste in 1971 where kishore excelled with RD. in his last years, rafi voice was strained/degraded (in my opinion) due to 40 years of singing.
Anonymous (Ref Post 270):
Jaikishan’s last recording was Lata’s ‘Gaya Bachpan’ from “Aankhon Aankhon Mein” produced by J. Omprakash who also happened to be the producer of Rafi’s last song in “Aas Paas”.
I don’t think Jai had any doubts for Rafi being his number one singer. Rafi was the greatest singer, and there was a huge difference between Rafi and Kishore in terms of singing, and the reason for SJ’s use of Kishore was primarily due to his popularity after Aradhana. As can be seen S & J continued using Rafi like before even when Kishore had become popular at the time, so I think it would have continued to be the same had Jai lived.
After Jai passed away, things started going downhill for Shankar, and the SJ team lost many banners, a good number of them went to RDB. Some examples, the film ‘Seeta Aur Geeta” started with SJ in the credits (from Screen Magazine), so it probably would have been SJ’s music in the film. The film “Bobby” would have definitely gone to SJ as would have “Namak Haram”, the producer of NH Sateesh Wagle was one of Jai’s best friends. There is a chance Sholay might have gone to SJ as well, after Jai’s passing away the Sippy’s made the move to RDB.
Jaikishan was a genius and so was Shankar and I am sure had Jai lived, they would proved yet again that they were a magical duo, and the whole 70’s scenario would have been different.
refer to d post 263,,
mr.p haldar,
i liked & agree wd your point
“”how well sj could exploit kishore’s strengths (like the burmans) and not expose his weaknesses, which pancham unfortunately did””
this simply shows d intelligence of duo of prolific music composers(shankar-jaikishan)….
Post 265: It is unbelieveable even “if” R.D. Burman said that Rafi Saheb was unable to grasp the nuances of “aaja aaja…” from Teesri Manzil. Mix the talents of both RD and KK, both will not equat to Rafi Saheb’s talent. RD made wrong choice of singers. Rafi Saheb sang more difficult songs than “aaja aaja…” under the baton of SJ. RD was a fool “if” he said so! Why he didn’t say it at the time of the song’s recording? All fake stories.
refer to post 269
mr.myk,
its really nice to hear from you abt the unreleased song of hkkn,, i was not aware of dis earlier.. well dats y i appreciated ur knowledge, also a person residing so far in canada & still know so much abt hfm, its really gr8,, well i will definiately do something regarding dis …
now regarding rr as i said earlier that he was awesome in his initial 6 years but aftr that suffered from mediocrity(exept few movies)…
also acc to me rdb was trend setter & rr was trend follower..
it doesnt mean that he entirely followed rdb trend but yes he definiately picked up clues from the rdb’s tunes & rythms…
as that kangha tarang,, rr used it many times,, also in some movies like des-pardes, bato bato mein,, his music & orchestra gives d feel of rdb,,, also in many songs he used the same rythm patterns as used by rd,, well not exactly same rythms like rd but we can say that he used d rythms having same theka as dat of rdb’s rythms…..
in short we can say that rdb gave the particular thaat in 1971 & rr created his own raag on that thaat…
however rr also had his own distinctions like
1.first english song.
2.first rap song is also in the rr’s bag(tune abhi dekha nahi fast version wd kk)
3.first composer who made legendry actor amitabh to sing..
so i think he was awesome from kuwara baap- yaarana but later he suffered from inconsistencies,,, so i cant term him as a great composer although he is known to be as a nice human being & very humble person….
on the other side rj was in his own league,, his music was so much pure & original,, i like his music,, although he also suffered from inconsistenceis in later 80s but he bounced back in 90s wd heena…
well there is no doubt in my mind that rr was more versatile but i think rj contributed more freshness in 70s,,
although both mds were highly talented… but i think rr was slightly towards rdb’s bracket…
Ref: Post 274.
Bro..I didn’t use the word “inspiration” to mean tune-lifting. I wanted to say RDB was a temperamental artist who when “motivated” (let’s use this term to avoid confusion) produced gems..and some pretty mediocre stuff when he was not. Hope it’s clear now..Thanx.
refer to d post 273,,
mr.anil cherian,
its really unfair to say dat rdb only clicked when he got inspired,,
juss go through the records again, u will definiatly find some all time legendry uninspired rdb’s songs..
also he alwys incorporated his genious into his inspired songs,, and 50% of his inspired songs are not even good…. from his 1200+ songs he lifted 50(approx) tunes 30 out of them notihing much to talk abt.,,
but ya its a truth dat he didnt showed much dedication & quality like his father,naushad & sj ,, but he’s still a legend…
To me, RDB was a man of many moods. He composed memorable tunes when inspired and craps when not. He also lifted tunes in dozens and scores from English and other European folk/ rock music. I’d label him as an un-disciplined artist who could have become an all-time great with a bit more dedication and application and a little less business-man like attitude.
ref post 265:
naveenji, raju b. has gone raving mad. Enough is enough; I can’t take it anymore. We cannot sit quiet and listen to his garbage. We need to respond.
others of course (needless to say) are welcome to respond. i think for a couple of years SJ would have to simplify their compositions – change them for the new era – and give in to the wave for a few years. after a few years they’d return to do things the way they originally wanted. i’ve heard some sj songs by kishore in the early 70s and they just didn’t sound right – kishore did not suit many of those sj compositions like the way rafi did. exceptions are the few that jai so skillfully custom crafted for kishore. Jai liked some of his compositions in higher pitch and Lata fought with him for it. Kishore wasn’t comfortable with that – you could tell in the song “Yeh Toote Botal Ke” as he sings “O Sanam O Sanam”. SJ compositoins sounded especially best in the melodious, sweet voice of Rafi! Kishore had his strengths for sure, but with SJ compositions I prefered Rafi easy. Although Kishore made a great effort in that song – it was great – but Rafi would have done even better. If only SJ had been around in the 70s – we’d had Rafi in Sholay (doesn’t affect his immortal greatness but it would have been fun!).
P Haldar,
Some questions for you as you’re very knowledgeable and I’d like to hear your opinion. (1) What was Jaikishan’s last recording? I know Zindagi Ek Safar in Andaz was his last big hit. (2) He gave one song in Andaz to Kishore and the rest to Rafi. A musical genius like Jai surely knew that Kishore’s composition was the “coolest†and would be a big hit. It turned out to be the blockbuster of the year and a legendary song. After this success, do you think Jai had any doubts for his preference of Rafi as his number 1 / favorite singer? Would Jai actually retain Rafi as his numero 1 (or at least use Rafi like the way LP did during Rafi’s “lean phaseâ€) and challenge RD to a duel: SJ-Rafi vs RDB-Kishore? That’d be interesting. I think RDB may have had a lead but Jaikishan would have ultimately won. 1971 is the year when tides turned against Rafi and many turned fickle until 1976 when Rafi Sahab came back with a bang. I admit it is a silly face off of my imagination – but thoughts please? I think the song from Andaz also proved that had Jaikishan not had that tragedy – he still had his Midas touch even in the new era of music and amidst a new wave (something that OPN or Naushad did not).
I look forward to your response. Thank you!
XXX, Ref Post 264:
I am going to answer your points in order from your post:
About the RDB Award. In my view, an award in RDB’s name does not speak volumes about his talent. In fact it speaks volumes about the sorry state of the industry that they would name an award in his name, and leave out many other talented MD’s. That’s what the award shows and nothing else, it may to others show his greatness, but for me RDB’s greatness is not due to an award in his name. For me, his greatness lies in the type of music he produced and the everlasting songs he created. There was never an award when he was alive, or when he was apparently out of work in the 90’s, its only when he passed away is when this hype of RDB has begun, and is being taken forward by his wife Asha Bhosle.
Thank you very much for the compliments on my knowledge, I really appreciate it, and I think you’re knowledgeable as well.
Yes, the legendary music directors and musicians definitely know more than us, and the comments you presented by Anil Biswas on RD are great. However Sir, I never have said anything or doubted RD’s greatness, in my view he is one of the greats and is one of my all time favourite music directors. The point I was trying to make is that from his rivals, LP and KA were no less, and they were very talented as well. Sometimes, the media may not give them as much credit as they deserve. As I mentioned before, they have a flavour in their music that RDB doesn’t have and the same is opposite, the two duo’s don’t have certain flavours in their music that RDB has. It goes both ways, and we’re lucky we had all of them to provide us with great music.
Yes, Naushad, and other greats all praised Pancham, and that is nice because he was talented, however I know of veteran MD’s who have also praised LP and KA as well, because they were also talented. Naushad, Khaiyyam, Majrooh all paid nice tributes to Laxmikant when he passed away. That’s just an example, I have seen other tributes at other times as well.
I agree, RDB could not produce the quality that those 5 MD’s you mentioned (Naushad, SJ, SDB, MM, Roshan) produced, as those 5 MD’s were in a different class and league all together.
When I mentioned truth, I was responding to your belief that LP only have a few albums out of their huge total in the 70’s/80’s that can be said to be of quality, and also pointing out that one shouldn’t be ignorant of facts. They produced much more than just a few during that time which is why they were able to stay at the top of the game for so long, or else they’d have collapsed a long time ago. It’s fine if you believe RD had more quality during that time, as those are your views, and I respect them. I agree with you RD had a lot of quality during that time, but I also feel LP had a lot of quality during that time as well.
Like others though they (LP & RD) also have their share of trash. And Yes I agree LP shouldn’t have taken on so many assignments, and the same is the case with RDB. So like LP his quality also decreased a bit when he signed so many films, but yet managed to produce quality like LP. Both should not have taken on so many films at one time, because it affected their overall quality. Furthermore, both LP and RDB were never the same again after Rafi saab passed away, and the same goes for many other MD’s.
I appreciate your views on RJ, and it is great that you wrote down your choice of Ravindra Jain songs, I like those songs as well, and I would like to mention two more Rafi songs, the beautiful “Tu Hi Woh Haseen hai” (Khwab), and “Ek Daal Par Tota Bole” (CMC), the former a solo and the latter a duet with Lata, both excellent song. RJ was indeed very talented and a great music director.
I also appreciate your views on RR, and although he became inconsistent after the 70’s, its just his work in the 70’s through which I consider him a great MD. Every music director has their lean period, and RR managed to survive many changes and is still there, and he has got to be probably the most under-rated MD ever. He never was involved in the rat-race and he always kept to himself and let his music do the talking, and managed to hold his own against the top MD’s. He produced mindblowing stuff in the 70’s, and produced enough memorable music during that time for him to be considered a great MD.
I would say that out of all the debutantes, he’s the one that showed the most promise and had a very successful run. He brought a certain freshness in the 70’s that was different from anyone, including RJ, he set a new trend of music, and probably was the last MD from that era to bring something new to HFM. RR’s musical idiom was totally different from anyone’s including his father, and here is where I disagree that he sounded like RDB. He was totally different from RDB in everything he did, even though the aroma may have been similar, but the overall product was totally diverse. This is why I consider him great because of what he did and what he brought to HFM, even though he has his share of inconsistencies, like everyone does. Also, he managed to provide us with great albums in every decade, the 70’s, 80’s, 90’s and 2000’s but his golden period was definitely the 70’s. To me he also was original and his music was classy and amazing at the same time, he had the best of both worlds, traditional and modern and mixed them so nicely. As P. Haldar once put it, he was trained under L-P so he had to be good. A very talented musician RR, he gave excellent songs to Lata, Rafi, Kishore, Asha and others.
You mentioned those radio stations playing RDB songs, that’s fine I agree they do, but I don’t live in the same area as you (I am assuming you’re in India). I am on the other side of the world (Canada) and here, besides playing RDB songs they play LP songs as well, and other MD’s. In many other parts of the world LP songs are being played too. I am sure in other parts of India they also play LP songs. LP were popular MD’s and they continue to be. Because they play majority RDB in your area does not mean its everywhere else. Yes I agree the media is just hyping KK and RDB today and forgetting about all the other staltwarts.
By the way, there is an unreleased Rafi solo from HKKN composed by RDB. It would be awesome if we could get our hands on that.
—————
P. Haldar,
I agree, SJ still produced many gems after 1970 and this is a testimony to their greatness. I was just mentioning LP and their success and how they managed to reach the top. I love many of SJ’s compositions post 1970.
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Friends,
Don’t pay attention to the crap Raju Bharatan writes. He has written nonsense that isn’t true many times. We all know Rafi was the greatest, and that’s all the matters.
RDB did copy and was inspired by a lot of western music, but he also managed to put his stamp on those compositions.
mr.manish kumar,,
it was not an insult to kk,, as i consider him as a greatest artist & comedian hfm has ever produced,,
but yes its also true dat he was far behind from rafi sahab in terms of singing..
as kk also accepted dis fact dat rafi sahab was far supirior than him…
its a post aradhna incident when someone came to kk and said to him “aapne to rafi sahab ki chutti kar di”
dan kk replied “tum pagal ho, tumhein music ke bare mein kuch nahi pata,, rafi sahab tak koi nahi pahuch skta, he is d best”
KISHORE KUMAR PROTESTED TO RAJU BHARATHAN’S 80s ANTI-RAFI ARTICLE!
Please don’t insult Kishore Kumar – he was a very dear friend and fan of Mohd Rafi! And he was a great singer with an evergreen voice. Both singers elevate each other as they provide variety for the other’s fans. And they give the best duets together! I miss them both!
Raju Bharathan is the same writer who instigated and supported Anil Biswas’ remark, “Rafi was no singer”. I think this happened in 70s or 80s. Kishore Kumar himself wrote back in protests. A spate of disapproving letters were sent to editors who were overwhelmed. This author is at it again trying in a cheap attempt to sell. Btw – dozens of MDs (including Pancham himself) have directly contradicted what is reported here. I also suspect (1) Pancham was misquoted / taken out of context (2) Someone forcefully manipulated Pancham into saying these things that he knew not to be true. Pancham was a music genius – to think he’d fail to appreciate genius Mohd Rafi is an insult to his genius. Remarks about OP’s music & recording of Teesri Manzil have Asha’s inferiority complex written all over them. She was partly responsible for RD’s early demise. She tried to attack other singers: OP indicated she was involved with him and made him promise not to give songs to Geeta Dutt. When she rises – she ditches him. That’s top class manipulation. Rafi fans – don’t be upset with RD – this is not him speaking. Kishore were around – he’d slap that author!
refer to d post 249,,
i agree wd mr.anonymous dat pancham incorporated his own genious into lifted songs rather shud b called inspired songs
as in d song “chura liya hai” he made d distinction wd original in starting 4-5 notes itself….
as one can see dat notaion for d words
“chura liya hai” goes like “pa pa ni dha pa”
and notation for d words
“if its tuesday(original song)” goes like “pa dha ni ni pa”
also in dis song antras were pancham’s own and all those guitar and sax music was not in d original… also he made d rythm bit pacey(3-taal to keherva)……..
but yes he as it is lifted two or three songs …….. like mehbooba o mehbooba was exact copy of say u luv me luv me luv me…. in dis song pancham copied everything rythm pattern, interludes, that catchy tune”ting ting ting”… only antras were pancham’s own…..
sholey’s score was really mediocre……
refer to d post 265,
its really sad that raju bhartan came up wd such a crap,, he is d sick guy..
pancham & raju bhartan are far behind from rafi sahab,,, & will never reach d same heights as attianed by rafi sahab.. wat d crap pancham was talking abt, KK is not even 10% of rafi sahab
pancham talking of ajajajajaaa aa . .. well i think that only rafi sahab cud sing a song like that,,, as untill 1966 he already bagged some beautiful western based numbers wd sj in junglee & opn.
as far as KK is concerned he definiately sang some playfull mood songs very well but he drastically sung d songs
1.chingari koi bhadke
2.mere naina sawan bhado…….
i think if pancham was not comfortable wd rafi sahab in 70s than yesudas wud b d gr8 chioce for d above songs….
well it didnt cause any harm to rafiji as he still gave d gems much much better dan kk….. i feel so sad for pancham dat he never made right choice for singers like his fathher…
See what crap Raju Bhartan comes up with again
http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=d66be9ce-4efc-49e3-9916-1e01bc0e0b0d&&Headline=Pancham+revisited
He scored for 331 films in 32 years. How does his Kishore Kumar song-tally compare with Asha Bhosle’s? Where Kishore sang 558 songs for him (227 solo, 245 duets), Asha rendered 840 of his compositions (406 solo, 338 duets).
He married Asha 14 years after he wed Rita Patel. His 14th death anniversary it is today and I have him, speaking here, in June of 1991.
RD Burman was a trendsetter without peer by then, so I asked if he still rated Chhote Nawab (1961), his first, as his best.
“I do, if only because Lata Mangeshkar wasn’t any longer singing for Dada Burman when Mehmood asked me to compose Chhote Nawab. Those days you were ‘made’ if you got Lataji to render your maiden song. So I told Dada point blank I was ringing Lataji. Actually Lataji too – I found out later – wanted to get back to Dada! So she readily agreed to sing Ghar aa jaa for me.”
“Did you, initially, set Ghar aa jaa as Raag Bhimpalasi in the Kaafi thhaat? Or was it in that thhaat from the word go – to unfold as Raag Maalgunji?”
Rafi wasn’t able to grasp the nuances of Aa jaa aa jaa at all! How Rafi struggled as Asha so exemplarily stretched the crucial Aaha-ha aa jaa aaha-ha aa jaa notes. Give me Kishore any time – he would’ve latched on to it in a trice– RD Burman in an interview in ’91Memories
“Who but you could pose such a query? All I know is I slipped into the Kaafij thhaat while composing Ghar aa jaa, so call it Maalgunji, if you like. In the face of having scored a thousand-and-one songs since, Ghar aa jaa remains my best. The memory of the legendary Lataji agreeing to sing so readily for a fresher like me makes Ghar aa jaa unique.”
“There were those three Lata-Rafi Chhote Nawab duets – Aaj huaa meraa dil matwaala, Matwalee aankhon waale and Jeene waale muskuraa ke jee. Today you openly say you never cared for Rafi. But, at the 1966 Chhote Nawab stage, you must’ve felt grateful to have our No 1 male singer as your playback?”
“No doubt Rafi was No 1 then,” conceded Pancham. “But I’d rehearsed Rafi so often for Dada that I could go along with him so far, no further. It was so tough to get Rafi to amend something you’d already taught him!”
“Take my breakthrough Asha-Rafi Teesri Manzil duet – Aa jaa aa jaa,” recalled Pancham.
“Rafi wasn’t able to grasp the nuances of Aa jaa aa jaa at all! How Rafi struggled as Asha so exemplarily stretched the crucial Aaha-ha aa jaa aaha-ha aa jaa notes. Give me Kishore any time – he would’ve latched on to it in a trice!”
Difficult Task
“Easy to say that 25 years after it happened,” I noted. “Didn’t it all happen because you never were patient with Rafi – like OP Nayyar was with Asha – to be able to draw the most resonant results from the man who sang Tum ne mujhe dekhaa for you in the same Teesri Manzil?”
“Only I know how I got Rafi to do Tum ne mujhe dekhaa!” insisted Pancham.
“With OP, remember, Rafi was on his home Punjabi ground. I don’t agree I was more patient with Kishore, not so patient with Rafi. No matter how patient I was with Rafi, he slipped into the same vocal error – time and again.
Kishore – you had to teach him but once, he was onto it like a shot. See the feel Kishore brought to Chingaree koii bhadke. But that’s straight Bhairavi even for Kishore.”
“Straight Bhairavi or not, see how Kishore makes it sound as if he’s singing Chingaree for you, and you alone, in Amar Prem.”
mr.myk,,
im not altering any fact or truth … its a well known truth that award named rd burman award was declared after him speaks much about his unparalleld talent…..
and u seems to b very knowledgeble person and i dnt know as much you know but for sure you are not as much knowledgeble as anil biswasji,naushadji, salilda and odrs….
let me allow to give u anilda’s take on pancham if u dnt mind sir —-
“””aisa all-rounder na hua hai na kabhi hoga. that includes his father and myself and all the other music directors… main ye bahut cheekh ke bataana chaahta hoon mere saare shrotaaon ko ki aisa sangeetkaar hoga nahin. phir uske saath jo hai na hamaara yug khatam ho jaata hai.
ab dekho jitni sahajta ke saath meN wo ek sanjeeda gaane ko taiyaar karta tha usee sahajta se usne ahaa-aa-ahaa-ahaa-aa wo saaNs ka jo hai na golmaal karta tha. ..ab usko Khud ko suno. uske Khud ke gaane bahut kam haiN magar jaisa usne gaaya hai sabko baitha ke rakh diya hai.
Anil Biswas (on AIR series – Rasikeshu, 2002) “””
also mr.myk iam also aware of d one more fact and truth that rdb never gave as much quality music as given by these 5 mds…
1.naushadji
2.dada burman
3.sj
4.madanji
5.roshanji
1.now this is my personal view—-as far as lp concerned i have mentioned earlier that they always managed to surpassed rdb commecially,, thats y they got more assignments & ruined themselves(by handling bulk of asgns at a time) in 80s along wd rdb(rd also did same thing),,, but i personally think rdb was qualitywise better than lp(not in 60s) ….. also i consider d class of anilda,naushadji as higher class in terms of music & they all praised pancham more dan any odr(sorry if someones differs or hurt)…
2.my personal view—- rdb never surpassed these fab five(naushad,sd,sj,mm,roshan),, as quality of these fab five were much better dan of rdb & they remained consistent throughout their careers…
3. my personal view—— that award which i hav mentioned must be given after d name of d any of d fab five that i have mentioned bcoz none(or only few) of d rdb songs cud match d quality of these songs
1.o dunia k rakhwale
2.jinhe naaz hai hind par…
3.yaad kiya dil ne kahan ho tum
4.ehsaan tera hoga mjhpar
5.ye aasoo mere dil ki zubaan hain… & many odrs..
as far as rj & rr concd i personally like rj’s songs
1.gori tera gaon
2.ghungroo ki tarah
3.akhiyon k jharokho se
4.nazar aati nahi manzil
5.heena movie songs(anodr gud album frm 90s)
6.paon mein dori,dori mein ghugroo(nice duet of rafiji & asha)
7.jab deep jale aana
8.ram teri ganga maili movie songs…. & many odrs
my personal views on rr —— rr was not extremely talented like his father but yes he gave good music from julie to yaarana,, i think sometimes he picked up clues from d rdb’s orchestraion like in d song tune abhi dekha nahi(funny version when shashi teases amitabh) there is a kangha(komb) tarang in dis song which was first used by rdb in mere saamne wali khidki & also his violans & musical interludes sounds like dat of rdb’s(in some movies)..
well after giving good music consistently for 6 years he too suffered from inconsistencies in later 80s ,,, & in early 90s he gave some very low standrd songs like zeher hai ki pyar hai tera chumma…..
in short i cant consider this md as a gr8 as his inconsistency period is more dan his consistency period…..
on the other hand rj’s music was totally diff from odrs and also his music sounds more original & more divine,, i personally like rj…. but yes in western based songs rr was better dan rj(sry if someone differs or hurt ya but plz do express your views on my personal views )
…….. ya also mr.myk you mentioned abt radio… well this is also well known fact or truth dat most of d radio staions play 70% rdb’s songs … juss tune into radio station anytime.. recently i tuned into 98.3 purani jeans & i found 70% of rdb songs there… i also find lp’s number their but all in voice KK..
today media juss hyping two persons from yesteryears rdb & KK & this really sad and insult to many gr8 maestros…..
myk, it may be true that sj’s quality started deteriorating in the 70s. Shankar’s obsession with Sharda and Jai’s penchant for the bottle did not help matters. Even when they were at their peak, there was a lot of variability in the quality of their output, but you can ignore the bad apples considering the fact that they were so prolific. Now let’s talk about the 1970-72 period when you said that lp overtook sj. Here are some sj compositions delivered by the four top male singers:
tum mujhe yun bhula na paoge (rafi)
unke khayal aaye to (rafi)
jab bhi yeh dil udaas hota hai (rafi)
jeenah yahan marna yahan (mukesh)
jaane kahan gaye woh din (mukesh)
kahata hai joker (mukesh)
zindagi ek safar (kishore)
bhanwre ke gunjan (kishore)
geet gaata hoon main (kishore)
ae bhai zara dekh ke chalo (manna)
re man sur me gaa (manna & asha)
chham chham baaje re payaliya (manna)
Give me another md who could deliver such gems with so many male singers in a period of just two years. If you consider the three kishore solos that I’ve mentioned, you’ll find how well sj could exploit kishore’s strengths (like the burmans) and not expose his weaknesses, which pancham unfortunately did.
How can Salil not have good opinion about Rafi, even after “Tasveer Teri Dilme” and “Koi Soneke Dilwala” from MAYA, “Toote Huye Khabone” from MADHUMATI, “Dil Tadape Tadapaye” from POONAM KI RAAT. Can any body imagine any other Singer singing these songs better than Rafi.
Regarding LP and RDB, no doubt RD was highly talented, but he wasted his talent by not choosing Singers properly and sometimes deteriorated to abysmal levels, though sometimes he came out with mindblowing songs in many films. LP though was very good in the sixties and seventies, but came down in quality later perhaps due to combinations of reasons like demise of Rafi, music quality going down, lyrics becoming more of prose than poetry, new Singers not in the same bracket as Rafi or Lata, differing tastes of new generation, etc. Perhaps these were the reasons that the general quality of film music went down especially in the eighties.
Just to add, the mention of contemporaries came up in this discussion and since LP were already mentioned, I decided to focus in on LP and KA as RDB’s two main contemporaries in my recent posts. They were from among his generation, his two main rivals, and the two he had to keep up with. Also these two could match RDB stride for stride which is why they’re the focus of my posts as well.
If you’re mentioning RDB and his contemporaries, it could mean anyone during that time, not just from his generation, and not just his rivals. The other MD’s during RDB’s time I didn’t focus in on because they were either the old guard which were in a different league, or other newer contemporaries which RDB surprassed because he was more prolific than them as well as more talented (putting RR on a different pedestal, talent wise).
Furthemore, this discussion hasn’t really focussed in on RDB’s contemporaries, and I just discussed mostly LP and KA from that contemporary angle, for the reasons mentioned above. If the discussion on contemporaries of RDB carries further then I (and we) can discuss other contemporaries such as Bappi, RJ etc. and how they managed to do during that time, in general, or vis a vis RDB.
Rajesh Roshan managed to hold his own against LP, KA, and RD when he came on the scene.
————–
Anonymous,
Those songs you mentioned from the 70’s and 80’s are great and mostly popular well-known songs. I can list 15 tunes, that may not be that well-known, but are excellent as well.
XXX,
You can’t take MM and SDB or other old guard composers as RD’s contemporaries because they belong to the older generation and were there even in the changing times. LP and KA along with others were in RD’s generation and were his rivals which is why the discussion should focus on them. If you want to widen it by including MD’s who changed with the times then that is fine.
You mention in the 70’s and 80’s, to go through all the LP albums and you will only get 100. That is not true, I could name much more than 100 by LP. It seems you have not heard or come to know of the majority of LP’s albums to be making such comments, because if you had, you wouldn’t be making such comments. How can you possibly come to that conclusion ?. Unless ofcourse its your personal tastes then its fine, but to say they came out with just 100 in over two decades is undermining their talent. Also that 14-15 albums you mention in terms of quality in the 80’s, LP have much more than that in this decade.
I mentioned those LP and KA albums that contained a flavour that RDB albums don’t have to show you that RDB didn’t compose such albums and his conttemporarires were no less. It has nothing to do with some being far ahead of RDB in the 60’s. I didn’t show you those albums to prove a commercial or selling point, I mentioned them because it shows his contemporaries were no less, and they were also very talented. Just as LP and KA also don’t have the flavour found in other RDB albums like I mentioned in that same post.
Even if LP took assignments in bulk its not as if they didn’t come out with excellent albums. They did even while working on many films at a time. RDB also worked on many films at a time as well, and you can say his quality suffered too, but he also came out with great albums, so it goes both ways for both LP and RDB. RDB also compromised on his quality by taking many films at one time as well, how come you don’t mention that and instead focus in on LP and their taking many films at one time as well. Even in the 70’s RD had his fair share of trash and mediocre music, even when coming out with top quality albums, so if RD also did that how come he gets singled out ?.
How do you know not a single album of LP is popular today ?. You are talking as if you live in all parts of the world, or you reside in all places where music is being played. Have you heard the radio shows, do you visit areas where music is being played ?. Just because RDB music is popular in your college or amongst your group doesn’t mean LP’s music is not very popular. LP constitute the bulk of HMV’s best sellers, more than RDB, it is their scores that have always been popular, LP scores sell more as single films compared to other MD’s who sell by compilations and not single film scores. LP’s music is very popular in every corner of the world, because you may not see that in your area, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Yes, RDB also has strong mass appeal albums as well, but LP’s popularity was always glowing and they always managed to sell albums more than RD from the time they were creating these golden songs.
It doesn’t matter if 1942 ALS had better songs than LP albums from the 90’s and if they’re popular today, this doesn’t take anything away from LP, nor does it show RDB’s superiority in any way. You may think it does, but it doesn’t. That Shakti song you mentioned, you said its more popular than any LP song of that year, I beg to differ, LP always came out with popular songs in each year, what was your barometer in judging that this was the most popular song. Unless you’re going by your own personal tastes then its not valid, because everyone has their own tastes, if its by BGM charts then I’d say its valid.
The reason why naushad mentioned those comments about RD is because he knew RD’s worth as a composer, it doesn’t mean LP were less in any way, or it doesn’t mean RD was more talented than LP. Btw, Pancham didn’t only get a chance with one big banner, he had many opportunities in the 90’s to prove his worth, but those 90’s albums couldn’t do the trick, what about that ?.
When you mentioned contemporaries, I focused in on his two main rivals and the ones frm his generation, LP and KA. If you widen the gap, contemporaries could mean everyone from the same time gap and in terms of RD that include MM, SDB etc. who were there during his time as well. But they were also contemporaries of the previous great composers too so they should be left out unless you want to include them in. Others like Bappi, Rj, rr etc. are all contemporaries even though they came after, and so are the other composers who came in the 80’s, but if you’re talking about contemporaries from a generation viewpoint, then LP and KA were his two biggest ones, and his rivals.
If you believe Pancham was the most quality oriented of the 80’s and 90’s that fine, its your views, but it doesn’t mean LP were not there in terms of quality during the 80’s and 90’s. To shun them out and say they only had a few albums worth of quality is being ignorant to their music. You can always make comparisons with RDB to others, but saying LP were far behind RDB, when in fact they were always ahead of him is also being ignorant to facts. When facts are involved, you have to acknowledge them, then you can make comparisons based on your personal tastes. No one is saying you shouldn’t write down your views, everyone here is and it is a place for that, but you have to be aware of certain things that are true, took place, and do exist. Everyone has a right to an opinion, but no one has the right to alter the truth.
I like Ravindra Jain and his music, but I feel Rajesh Roshan was more versatile. Please do bring forward your views on RR, just because they differ it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t write them down. I would like to hear your views on Ravindra Jain and Rajesh Roshan.
mr.anonymous…
as you said that in 90s lp didnt have any option odr than compromising wd quality … and yes that simply shows that they were not talented enuf to change the music scenario acc to them……
but en rdb got chance in 90s wd meaningfull movie, he came out wd excellent score and u cant deny d fact that 1942 songs were very much high quality song….
although i dn consider rdb,lp,ka as truly gr8 bcoz they together ruined d 80s aftr rafi sahab…
as i alredy mentioned dat u cant name more dan 100 good albums of lp among d 500+ albums…
mds like sj,mm,sdb,roshan,naushad did every movie wd true dedication & always came out wd atom bomb(both in classes & masses)
shankar-jaikisan did 110 movies till 1971 & u will definiately find 100 among them really good &their songs are equally popular today as they used to be..
although sj started working independently in 1971 but they never changed their brand name shankar-jaikisan………
ya i found that most of d people in dis forum blaming rdb for bringing mediocrity in music .. dats were i differ… i jusss wanna say dat lp also did d same thing in late 70s & 80s & 90s(by taking bulk of movies at a time),,
and also i believe rdb’s music delievered more quality in 70s 80s & 90s among his contmps(lp,ka,rj,rr,bappi)….
but as mr.myk said dat things were never same aftr demise of d lord rafi ji & this factor also brings mediocrity into 80s….
i feel really sad abt the composers madanji and roshanji…. they were far more talened than rd,lp,ka & far more dedicated towards their music,, but never got their dues… even stupid media of today only knows rd burman from yesteryears…
its really sad that media totally ignoring these gems….
roshanji,madanji….poor guys
mr.myk….
i appologise for sadma & silsila,, ya but these two albums were definiately more quality albums than those of lp in 80s….
also when i said that it was only rdb who contributed maximum among his contemps i didnt take mm,sdb into considerations….
even a single album of madanji(dil ki raahen or haste zakham) is enuf to proove his supirioratiy over (rdb,lp,ka,rr,rj)…
ya but i still believe it was only rdb who contributed maximum in terms of quality(in 70s & 80s)….
by quality i mean juss go through 250 albums(may be more) composed by rdb .. u will definiately get 150 good albums,, but in case of lp you cant name more dan 100albums(among their 500 albums)…..
it means rd’s contribution 2wards crap is 100 & that of lp’s is 400…(4 times more dan rdb)….
also u mentioned some of ka & lp albums from late 60s & 1970
but yes i accept d point that ka & lp dominated over rd in 60s…
but in 70s & 80s rdb contributed maximum…
i dn want to say anything ka…. but yes lp were really very talented(not as pancham),, gr8 sense of melody.. and they were really hardworking guys
as once pyrelalji said in an interview dat in his early days of struggle he used to play violan 12 hrs a day….
and their hard work really paid off as they surpassed many gr8 mds in 60s(salilda,ravi,jaidev,rdb,ka,anna,)……
but as i said earlier unlike odr gr8 mds they started taking assignments in bulk
and ruined themselves later in 70s & in 80s…. also aftr jaikisan passed i think they relaxed themselves & started doing music casually…
they simply compromised wd d quality of music in cost of making fast bugs..
and i wud like to add one more point ,, the songs of albums kati patang & amar prem,, golmaal(aane wala pal)… gr8 gambler, jawani diwani are more popular among d musical group of mine as well as odrs(in college)…
not even a single album of lp is popular today as they used to be(im talking of late 70s & 80s nt abt 60s & early 70s) ….
that shows rdb’s greatness concerning mass appeal…
lets talk abt 90s rdb’s only album wd big banner was 1942 & none of d lp song frm 90s cud match d quality of the 1942 songs…. 1942 songs are also very popular among youths even today(ek ladki,, rimjhim rimjhim…)
but im not against lp my only complaint aganst them is y they compromised,
they always had caliber to rank alongside truly gr8 mds but in cost of making fast money they compomised wd d quality & dats d truth,, their level was maintained by only rafi sahab’s golden voice(late 70s),,,
as far as shakti is concd the song “jane kaise kab kahan” is more popular today dan any of d lp song in respective year…..
yes lp did some beautiful albums in 80s like sur sangam, ek dooje k liye..
but as i said earlier e cant name more dan 14-15 good albums from their 200+ albums in 80s…
consider roshan sahab… he did only 30 films throughout his career but all of them were true gems specially(barsat ki raat)…. this is true dedication & true gr8ness… roshan sahab never bothered abt money so never deteriorate the quality of music.. roshan sahab is far ahead of rdb,lp in terms of quality..
ok u dn consider salil comments to highly.. but naushad ji d greatest md of all time(xcuse me if someone differs) also said that only pancham had d caliber to reform the lull music scenario of 90s,, ya naushad ji always praised lp but naushadji never passed such type of commnt upon lp as he was very well aware of d fact that pancham is far more talented than his contmps…
also evryone know dat wat lp, ka did in 90s in terms of quality … on d odr side pancham got d chance only once(wd big banner) , and he clicked…
well im agree d u dat things were never same aftr demise of lord rafiji but i believe dat pancham was most quality oriented md of 80s & 90s….
and among d 70s debutants i consider rj as greatest and i don want to comment on rr as i totally differs from u in case of dis composer also…
in short lp were always lethal wd d lord but they deteriorated aftr demise of lord & unfortunately dat was in 1980 & dats y they suffered
Great to see a lot of lively, meaningful discussions taking place.
It’s unfortunate that RDB under-utilised Rafi sahab. Many of his compositions (esp. the simple western-based ones) could have become master-pieces in Rafi sahab’s hands. Can someone imagine “Chand mera dil…” attaining such lustre if recorded in someone else’s voioce?
I had mentioned Rajesh Roshan, let me just put something in more about him. He is very talented and very innovative as well, and like RD and others could be recognized by his music. He had a unique way of using his violins as well as arranging his instruments, and his songs were full of melody. He also has the distinction of creating the first full-fledged english song from julie, and he brought a certain freshness to HFM in the 70’s. After that decade it was only in choice albums where RR shined. He gave excellent songs to Rafi, Kishore, Lata and Asha and used Usha M quite a few times as well. He gave breaks to many singers two of which are Anwar and udit narayan. I’ll write an article on him one day and his association with Rafi. I wish he composed for more films today and not just for his brother.
For me he has produced the best three way song ever, “Kya Mausam Hai” by Kishore-Lata-Rafi from Doosra Aadmi. A super talented musician, he can compose anything and showed his variety. He has composed many mindblowing songs throughout his career. He was also another trend-setter, and proved his mettle against all the big composers.
I had mentioned in my previous post that although RR was excellent I feel RD was ahead of him. I said that because RD was more prolific, and as far as talent is concerned, both were extremely talented and it is tough for me to say which one of the two, RDB or RR, was more talented.
RR had a lot of similarities to RD. RR could use his instruments with the same finesse as RD, he could play with many rhythm patterns just like RD could, he could also compose as much variety as RD, and both had this knack of introducing new sounds to their compositions. Many will say RR copied RD’s rhythm patterns, but that is so far from the truth, because RR rhythm was totally different from RD’s rhythm. Both were also great on the technology front which is why their songs have great sound quality. Furthermore, both were strong on western music as well as indian classical music. Another connection is that both their fathers, Roshan and SDB were great friends.
To end it off, let me mention two RR-Rafi masterpiece songs, one is “Mujhe Chu Rahi Hai” from Swayamvar with Lata and the other is “Teri Palkon Mein Kajal” from Jay-Vijay with Suman. Both are standout songs composed by Junior Roshan.
Correction:
In my last post, instead of:
“There are many KA albums that have a flavour not found in RDB’s scores.”
It should read as:
“There are many KA and LP albums that have a flavour not found in RDB’s scores.”
XXX (Ref Post 247),
No one is denying RDB’s greatness, he was very talented, he is one of my most favourite composers. However when it is mentioned that he only contributed maximum towards quality amongst his contemporaries, or he was the most talented amongst them, is where I disagree.
Among his contemporaries I am only going to focus in on LP and KA since they were the two most prolific and his two main rivals. LP and KA were very talented as well, in fact they even had qualities and talents RDB did not have and vice versa.
There are many KA albums that have a flavour not found in RDB’s scores. Does RDB have an album with the flavour of a Jab Jab Phool Khile, Saraswatichandra, Geet, Safar and many more ?. Does RDB have an album as folk/classical filled as Sargam or LP albums with the flavour of an Aaya Sawan Jhoom Ke, Dosti, Milan and many more ?. Similarly, LP and KA do not have a Hum Kisi Se Kum Nahin, Teesri Manzil, Kinara or Caravan either. All these composers had their own strengths and were all very talented, and they all contributed towards quality and not just RDB alone.
Also, I wouldn’t take Salil’s comments too highly. We all know he didn’t think that highly of Rafi saab, so if he failed to recognize Rafi’s greatness, then I would take his comments with a pinch of salt. This does not mean his comments on RDB’s talents aren’t true, they are in the sense that RDB was talented, but claiming him a phenomenon when his contemporaries were no less is stretching it. However, everyone has their own opinion including Salil and that is fine. In my view, the only real phenomenon was Rafi saab. RDB was one of our trend-setters though and he brought a new sound to HFM.
You mentioned veteran MD’s and their comments about RDB, true they are there, but I could also provide you with many comments from musicians/veteran MD’s who think very highly of LP and KA.
I am not going to comment on the works of Bappi, RR, Ravindra Jain and so forth because although they were also contemporaries of RDB, and all had good work, RDB surprassed them all, including one of my favourites RR who was excellent, but I will say RDB was ahead of him as well.
Also, MM, Usha Khanna and SDB can also be listed as contemporaries of RDB but they were also from the older guard who were there in every decade, and their greatness is in a different class all-together.
Like I said earlier, LP and KA were were the two most greatest and most prolific out of his contemporaries, and his rivals, along with also being from the same generation as him, which is why the focus is on them.
In the 70’s it was LP, KA, RD who formed the Fab 3, with SD and others having their own market share.
XXX (ref post 242):
“Dekha Ek Khwab” and “Yeh Kahan Aa Gaye Hum” were not composed by RDB, they were composed by Shiv-Hari for Silsila. It seems you associate songs of that period from other MD’s as songs by RDB lol (just kidding), as you did it with IR’s Sadma song as well. Shakti and Agar Tum Na Hote can’t be listed as quality albums, other than a couple of good songs from both.
The rest from your list (songs/albums), are good and can spell quality, but not all can be said to be up to RDB’s standard of quality when Rafi was alive. Same with L-P and most other MD’s. LP also have many songs/albums from 80-83 that also can spell quality but it doesn’t mean they were in the same league as the quality they produced when Rafi was alive.
That was the basis of my point before, that the quality that LP and RD produced during the 80’s may have been quality for that particular time, but it doesn’t mean it would get placed amongst their very best (quality), during the time Rafi was alive. Only choice albums/songs from this period (the 80’s) would get placed alongside their all-time best.
Look at the example of Rajesh Roshan, he was wonderful from 1974 until 1980, during the time Rafi was alive. When Rafi passed away, his standard of quality also dipped and he also has his share of trash from the 80’s, besides also producing choice good songs/albums that have quality during that time (quality that can be said for that period). Only choice 80’s onwards works of his can rank alongside his all-time best which was from 74-80, a time when he had freshness in his music.
The general quality of music dipped for everyone when Rafi passed away. He kept the quality very high and when he passed away it all crumbled.
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P. Haldar, I can give you a list of those 15 songs, but since your question was directed at “Anonymous”, I will wait for him to reply first.
p haldar: i just noticed you capped it to ’79 to not include 1980 (some of my songs were from 1980 recordings) – hope that is OK. i will also admit i’m sure there are lots of more but i’m relatively new to HF history and haven’t watched all songs. i also need to listen to more lata solos – even if my favorite soloists are male singers rafi & kishore.
edit – the tune for the lata, kishore, mukesh, rafi song in amar akbar anthony was EXCELLENT – i underrated it just seeing aaa as a BLOCKBUSTER / commercial success. it had a great blend of quality too. the tune of that song could compete with many.
yep, i haven’t heard all of rdb’s tunes (the ones i did were EXCELLENT) even though i have access to all of them – but in 1980 the burning train had those 2 great & unique & GENIUS songs. sometimes those songs make me cry (lol) to see rdb use rafi so infrequently. what a mistake he made in trying to overpromote kishore! surely a md of his genius would not fail to appreciate mohd rafi as a singer! i don’t care what an idiot like raju bharathan says – it would be an insult to rdb’s genius to think he wasn’t aware of mohd rafi’s genius!