Did R.D.Burman really preferred KK over Rafi?
This article is written by Mr.H.V.Guru Murthy.
A regular browser to web site mohdrafi.com, having gone through the letters of Rafi lovers would assume that R D Burman did not utilize Rafi properly, instead he preferred Kishore Kumar. Because of this reason, Rafi Fans are still upset with RDB even though he passed away a decade back.
Yes, it is true that RDB preferred KK over Rafi during early seventies. For that matter, which Music Director or Actor or Producer or Director will not have his preference. It was well known that Raj Kapoor always preferred Mukesh, Manoj Kumar preferred Mukesh or Mahendra Kapoor, B.R.Chopra films had Mahendra, MD Ravi also had plenty of songs with Mahendra so also O.P after he broke with Rafi. Similarly OP always had either Asha or Geetha Dutt and never Lata. Salil also used all other Singers. Director Subba Rao insisted on Mukesh for SAATHI even though the hero was Rajendra Kumar and MD Naushad, two Rafi Fans. Even Kalyanji Anandji had many films with Mahendra Kapoor, Mukesh and KK even though Rafi was instrumental in their raise through JAB JAB PHOOL KHILE, AAMNE SAAMNE, etc. LP, by all means Rafi Bhakts, used KK regularly in the early seventies even for Rafi heroes like Jeetendra, Dharmendra, etc. SJ also switched over to KK in movies like MAIN SUNDAR HOON, DIL DAULAT DUNIYA, KAL AAJ AUR KAL, etc. Of course, the music standard came down a notch or two in that period. But, well, it is their prerogative to have whomsoever they wanted though I am sure in heart of heart, why even openly, they would have admitted the superiority of Rafi over all other Singers. Similarly, RDB also used KK for almost all his movies in the early seventies as perhaps he had some special chemistry with him.
However, let us not forget that RDB used Rafi extensively during late sixties as his main playback singer right from the first movie. He gave hit music with Rafi in TEESRI MANZIL, NAQLI NAWAAB, CARAVAN, PYAAR KA MAUSAM, THE TRAIN, ABHILASHA, ADHIKAR, RATON KA RAAJA, etc. Later during late seventies he returned to Rafi and gave hits like SHAAN, HUM KISISE KUM NAHIN, ABDULLAH, ZAMANE KO DIKHANA HAI, etc. In between, he had Rafi in CHANDI SONA qawali with Mannadey (Ek Shok Hasina Se), YADON KI BAARAT (Title song and who can forget the duet with Asha Chura Liya Hai Tumne), DIL KA BAADSHAH (this Raj Kumar starrer had all songs by Rafi), THE GREAT GAMBLER (Raftasa Mera Naam), SHEHZADA (Solo Tere Attaroo and duet with Lata Kaahe Ko Bulaya), etc.
If a person cannot appreciate the greatness of Rafi, then it can be safely concluded that the person does not have a sense of music. Of course, RDB was a good MD though not a great MD like Naushad, Madan Mohan, OP Nayyar, SDB, etc. RD would have definitely known the great qualities of Rafi, the Singer. Just because he did not use Rafi extensively as one would expect, let us not degrade this MD who gave us some good songs in CHANDAN KA PALNA, PADOSAN, HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA, MERE JEEVAN SAATHI, AJNABEE, AMAR PREM, SANAM TERI KASAM, BHOOT BANGLA, BAHARON KE SAPNE (Rafi solo Zamane Ne Maare), PARICHAY, KINAARA, APNA DESH, ZAHREELA INSAAN, RAMPUR KA LAKSHAMAN (Pyaar Ka Samay with Lata, KK and Rafi), 1942 – A LOVE STORY, KATI PATANG to certain extent, etc. though he gave some very mediocre music in films like DEEWAR, SHOLAY, KITAAB, ZAKHMEE, RAFOO CHAKKAR, NAMKEEN, DHARAM KARAM and BIWI O BIWI (so un-RK film like), etc. so many forgettable movies as for as music was concerned.
The irony of RDB was either he gave good music or petered out to a very mediocre music in so many films. I read some where that Shashi Kapoor called RD as National Anthem Music Director. In those days, theatres used to play National Anthem at the end of the movie and the Hall doors used to be shut till the completion of the Anthem. As soon as the Anthem used to commence, our in-disciplined people used to rush to the Hall Door and wait for the door opening. Similarly, whenever RDB songs commenced in most of the movies, people used to rush to toilet.
Still, it is not fair that we use harsh and sometimes, un-parliamentary language against any body if they differ with our views. We cannot forget the contribution of all these MDs, Heroes, Singers, Directors, etc. in making the Indian Film Music so rich.
July 19th, 2007 at 12:04 am
ref post 72:
Mr. Narayanan, according to the database on this site, Rafi sang a phenomenal 230 songs in 1960. Since this is not an exhaustive database, my guess is that he sang more than 300 songs in 1960, which makes it almost a song a day. I hope I don’t have to remind readers some of those songs. They are the kohinoors whose lustre increases with every passing year. Yes, I’m talking about madhuban mein radhika, na kisi ki aankh ka noor hoon, chaudhvin ka chand, lagta nahin hai dil mera, khoya khoya chand, zindagi bhar nahin, aye mohabbat zindabad, yeh ishq ishq, saathi na koi manzil, mili khaak mein mohabbat, apni to har aah ek toofan… and the many wonderful duets he sang with lata, asha and geeta. Give me one male singer whose lifetime’s output matches rafi1’s output in 1960; this is an open challenge.
In 1980, rafi had 85 songs compared to kishore’s 82 (rough figures, actuals will be higher). If he hadn’t died in July that year, most probably the figures would have read more like 95-72 and slowly you’d have seen one graph rising and the other falling. But kishore would have still remained in the fray, with the rafi-kishore ratio settling in the 3:2 vicinity. That’s rafi for you.
Just like kishore learnt the tricks of playback singing from rafi, rafi should have learnt the trick of how to deal with the industry folks from Kishore; he should have treated them like dirt. Zahid, his brother-in-law cum secretary, would have definitely acted much tougher in rafi’s second innings. He was always the tough exterior to rafi’s soft interior. And rafi should have spent some vacation time with kishore in khandwa; there is nothing like spending quality time with a supremely gifted and devoted fan. And like kishore, he should have learnt to squeeze bappi’s cheeks on stage.
July 18th, 2007 at 11:37 pm
Dear Haldarji,
Ref post 65:
Well I do not shy away from the fact that Rafi in those years wasn’t the number one choice in many instances. There were so many factors responsible for Rafi’s relative low phase some real, some media created and some manipulated. Tell me if Kishore Kumar and RDB was so great why did they loose filmfare awards to others in that phase.Kishore wasn’t even nominated in one or two instances. RD registered his first win in eigties. The industry works on money or the prospect of money. Rajesh Khanna’s sudden popularity was what industry wanted to cash on and Kishore getting associated with Rajesh Khanna helped him a lot. This is one of the main reasons what led to Rafi’s slowdown. Another factor is that most Rafi centric heroes had aged and were getting out of the reckoning in that period. But the biggest factor is manipulative media and the vested interest and to top them all Binaca Annual Charts. Qualitativley I find Rafi songs of 70 and 71 of the same quality.Rafi had more songs on Binaca Annual parade in 1970 but only 1 song (that too a duet) in 1971. Sure all Kishore songs up there were hits but so were Rafi songs. A classic example of unfairness on Binaca is film Aap Aaaye Bahar Aaye. It had a Kishore -Lata duet representing on Binaca Annual Parade than any of the superhit songs of Rafi. These like these made a lot of difference in subsequent assigments. Barring Rajesh Khanna and Dev Anand movies in this period you will find a Rafi’s presence in most movies of the period and that too songs were hits if not on Binaca but otherwise on AIR et al.How can Yeh Duniya Yeh Mehfil be such a popular Rafi number when it was hardly played for a week or so on Binaca.It is not that people figured out these songs after a decade or so.Even today on AIR ,Rafi songs from Aan Milo Sajna ,Seema etc would played as much or even more on AIR than Kishore songs from these movies.
Rafi number of songs for the entire decade of seventies till his untimely death was less than Kishore’s number by only a couple (or so) of dozens. In years 71 through 76 it was on the strength of Binaca and the Rajesh Khanna’s big movies where Kishore scored over Rafi. And that too it took couple of years after Aradhana to create that. I often compare Kishore sudden rise in early seventies to Himesh’s rise today. Himesh rise doesn’t mean Sonu and others are finsihed but media has to create stories. From 72 to 74 ,Rafi as a matter of fact started consolidating his position on Binaca annual charts right from 1972 (he had 5 or 6 songs that year) but sure it was Kishore who led wi
th a huge margin. In 74,Rafi had as many as 4 songs in top 16 of Binaca Annual. In 75 and 76 Mukesh was more dominant in the top 10 annual of Binaca than any other male singer. My problem is that media even today (and some of us fall prey to it) that once Ardhana happened ,Rafi was sitting home and then AAA and HKSKN happened and he was back thus making a grand comeback. That is the point I protest. And these are invented lies.
So bottomline is Was Kishore more sought after than Rafin 71-76 ,the answer is yes. Was Rafi giving a fierce competition ,the answer is again yes.And were vested interests trying to bring down Rafi that as a consequence benefiited Kishore in that period,answer is again “Yes”. All in my humble opinion.
Thanks
Naveen Z
July 18th, 2007 at 9:51 pm
ref post 69:
binuji, I’m with you on chingari koi bhadke, as well as quite a few other songs including sd’s badi sooni sooni hai. I hope you now understand why I maintain that it was rd who shut rafi out. He challenged the establishment and all the other leading md’s, including lp and ka, fell prey. If lp were that strong, they should have never switched to kishore in the first place. Look at mm; despite immense pressure, he didn’t switch. stuck to rafi during his lean phase and still managed to produce gems for him in hanste zakhm, heer ranjha and laila majnu.
My comment on rd trying to make Kishore sound serious was not made in jest; it was dead serious. The author of this piece misunderstood the context in which I was making the comment. I don’t know for sure if rd in his heart of heart believed that kishore was the best for all kinds of songs, but that’s what his behaviour in the 1972-76 period demonstrated.
The only living md who could have thwarted the injustice that was being meted to rafi was sd, but he chose not to. sd didn’t take orders from anyone when it came to choosing the right singer, but still he gave just one song to rafi in Abhiman when he could have given him the entire male score. And yet in that one song, rafi delivered what many consider to be one of the best duets of the 70s. In my reckoning, sd was the no. 2 md in the 1970-75 period; I don’t go by box office stats but by the effect the music creates. “Naach mere boolbool” and “soni aur moni ke jodi ajeeb” may have been bigger chartbusters, but I still cherish songs like “mera man tera pyasa” and “mehbooba teri tasveer” much more.
There is a reason why I referred to the bengali version of “gunguna rahe hai bhanwre”; so that you could compare the effects of the two different male voices. But if you haven’t heard the rafi version, the bengali version sounds darned good. And the songs composed by the two burmans for kishore in the 70s sound very good. As I’ve said earlier, there was only one dimension in which kishore was better than rafi, but rd went one step further and tried to prove that his idol was better in every way. There is no question that musical standards had started declining in the 70s, but rafi2 and rafi4 would have ruled had the burmans not turned away from him.
I still believe in venkat ji’s theory about the two sisters. They may not have been directly involved, but for the first time they were happy that rafi was not no. 1. They were in envy of rafi’s popularity in the sixties and when he fell, they must have had clapped their hands in glee. Binuji, you are in touch with industry folks. Check and find out what they did when Runa Laila came into the scene. I have heard some non-filmi compositions of OP for Runa; they are just wonderful. When runa came, the two sisters presented a united front with the younger one starting the “yeh hai asha” campaign. For, more than lata, it was Asha who was at risk.
Kishore was not only a great singer, but more than that, he didn’t play dirty politics. Even at his peak, he never showed any disrespect to rafi. Compare his statements on rafi to the ones made by the sisters’ brother. Kishore was rafi’s no. 1 fan, more than anyone on this forum could ever be. And never forget a very simple fact: in the entire music industry, he was the only one who challenged Rafi. Bigots can say whatever they want to, but that’s the truth.
July 18th, 2007 at 7:24 pm
Haldarji fine analysis n post,
Yes the FABULOUS 50S N SWINGING 60S HAD MELODIOUS SONGS BY RAFI SAAB. U HAVE MENTIONED THE TREND OF RDB,KA AND LP.
I am not that old but used to listen to the total domination of Rafi being the single factor amongst co-singers, MDs, actors and even the heroines like Nanda,Asha Parekh, Meena Kumari,Vyjantimala,Rajshree,Saira Banu,Waheeda,Mala Sinha who had the golden opportunity to be associated strongly with the golden voice of the maestro.
U have given the comparison of the two legends post 69 and the curve increases for our humble gaint from 77. What a great comeback?.
Can anyone give a simillar analysis from the 40s to 69s of Rafi with other male singers?.
July 18th, 2007 at 6:55 pm
Friends, For those who think that OPN had a fallout with Rafisaab during 70s please note that OPN was angry with Rafisaab during the recording of the song ‘baharein phir bhi aayengi’ when Rafisaab failed to make it at the decided hour.if you check it on the net Baharein Phir bhi aayegi was released in 1963 or 1966,so it has nothing to do with KK’s so called rise.
July 18th, 2007 at 5:48 pm
i want more information about rafi sahab
July 18th, 2007 at 4:57 pm
I agree with Mr.Halder that Rafi was a fierce competitor..
Nothing could stop his first love - singing, with or without money.
He was available for any kind of composers or producers. Rafi told
a composer friend: U just tell me : how many numbers I have to
sing. I have made it now you must go ahead in chaste: punjabi.
Both were from the city of lahore and rafi used to take rs.l00 for a song.
In duets asha would also cut her rates for small time composers just
as rafi ji.
But, I feel too strongly that chingari ko badhke needed a softer voice
as also : yeh kya hua.. kaise hua. may be the farishta would have
made it to another din dhal jaaye or kyaa se kya ho gaya classic.
r.d. burmans judgement went terribly wrong many times but he
has created great works.. his greatest mistake being after doing
great work with rafi, ignoring him for about three years. Did success
go in to his head or was he being tutored by forces inimical to rafi - is
the million dollar question.
binu nair…..
July 18th, 2007 at 3:40 pm
salam mr MOHAMMAD PARVES can u resend me thees songs plz
1) kahaniya sunati hey pawan aati jati.
2) chalo re doli uthaoo kahaar piya milan.
3) mere desh premiyo aapas main prem karo.
4)har jalwa tera jalwa teri yeh duniya sari.
plz send me .
e-mail -id javifazl@yahoo.com
July 18th, 2007 at 2:57 pm
Introduction of ‘plain-note singing style’ is the sole methodological contribution made by the intruders of the 70s, regrettably/ridiculously at the cost of the purity of music (to the severe disappointment of true devotees of music). Naïve panegyrics exacerbated the situation and intruders climbed ivory towers. Musically literate ones had frequent nightmares of ‘keertanas’ floating without ‘gamaka’. On the whole, musical historians can chronicle a period of mass slaughter of ragas.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:33 pm
Hi KK lovers can anybody send me these two songs sung by KK
1) Champawati Tu Aaja
2) Pahli Baar Ha Pahli Bar Ek Ladki
My e-mail id:- ganesh_3310@yahoo.co.in
July 18th, 2007 at 2:23 pm
ref post 60:
so-called lean phase! I wonder where the people who are writing these posts were during the 1972-76 period. Rafi was not born to sing a “mahua tera wada kya hua” here and a “teri galiyon mein” there. These are ripples in a pond. A giant like rafi used to make such huge splashes in the ocean that boats in the vicinity would sink. If some of the people who are writing on this thread clicked on this site’s database and checked the number of songs rafi sang in that period, they would be able to see the truth for themselves. Granted it’s not an exhaustive database, but it is still indicative of the trends. Here are the number of songs from 1969 to 1980 sung by rafi and kishore.
rafi kishore
1969 108 20
1970 80 53
1971 78 108
1972 50 136
1973 31 136
1974 33 151
1975 27 108
1976 29 92
1977 57 147
1978 55 92
1979 50 65
1980 85 82
Take a graph paper and plot the curves and tell me if you see a fall for one and a rise for another. And let me know if you can find the point where the trend reverses. The Aradhana-Kishore-RD effect lasted for a full six years before rafi started reversing the trend. And that was in 1977, when HKKN and AAA were released. Just like rafi didn’t make a breakthrough with “dil deke dekho”, he didn’t make a comeback with “hawas” (1974).
When the three sj wannabes made their first splash, check out what rafi did for them. Yes, I mean Teesri Manzil, JJPK and Dosti. He sang every single song in the first and almost all the songs in the other two. And you’ll see that phenomenon in scores of other films in the sixties. There are some old-timers on this forum who remember those days but they have chosen to remain silent.
July 18th, 2007 at 1:40 pm
also harvider ji your following point is spot on
‘To elevate RDB such long debates are initiated. Nobody talks of SJ or Madan Mohan ??? May be they did not have Asha Bhonsle kind of commercial wife. What a joke there is an award in honour of RDB.”
what a shame!!!!! the industry is exposed and so its dirty politics
July 18th, 2007 at 1:38 pm
Post 55 and Post 60…..excellent posts.
Harvinder ji…..your following points are spot on:
“More on RDB - I am sick of hearing that “Kya hua tera wada” of RDB in 1977 new lease of life to Rafi saheb. What about songs of Amar Akbar Anthony, Chacha Bhatija, Dharamveer. Many of Ravindra Jain’s songs in early 70’s sung by Rafi saheb were very melodious”
and what about songs from Khilona (70), Naina (73), Hanste Zakam (73), Loafer (74), Suraj aur Chanda (74), Caravan (72), Chor Machaye Shor (75),
Kaanch aur Heera (73), Ek Mahal ho sapno ka (74) …..film in which KK was replaced by Rafisaab……..lol
the stories of this so called comeback is as false as the sun rising from the west. Kings do not make comebacks, they always rule.
I agree with Naven all this nonsese is media made and by certain mischief elements in the music world.
July 18th, 2007 at 1:10 pm
One of the songs which helped Rafi to come back in the seventies was “Main Ek Raja Hoon” from the film UPHAAR music by LP and starring Jaya Bhaduri, but filmed on a new comer, who vanished after this movie. Even, Mr. Amin Sayani in the Binaca Geetmala stated that with this song, Rafi would come back to top again.
July 18th, 2007 at 11:39 am
hello : sir binu nair plz rafi sahab ki bio per jo aap book mutarif kara rahy hain kiya woh sorf hindi mein hey us ka english yah urdu tarjima bhi hey?
July 18th, 2007 at 11:31 am
My take is that Rafi’s so called lean phase and much talked about comeback is more or less the handiwork and creation of manipulative media. I think on these internet forums I may have been one of the first people to have made an observation that binaca charts seemed to have been manipulated in early seventies. Any unbiased film buff will note that Rafi was very much there and rocking all through those so-called (and media created) lean years. Since Kishore was no where and all of a sudden rose like a phoenix manipulative media and some vested interests started under-mining Rafi .Rafi’s absence for a brief period and lack of good PR didn’t help him either. Charts weren’t giving fair coverage to Rafi songs especially in 71. But then Rafi dominated films for older actors also flopped. Rajesh Khanna prefered Kishore to sound different. And failure of films like Mehboob ki Mehndi that had Rafi dominated scores didn’t make a strong case for Rafi-Rajesh association. RDB was a craze but at charts he was rivaled and often out-smarted by LP even in those years .LP-Kishore combination produced relatively bigger hits at charts that RD_Kishore although in case of former combination the impact was not as everlasting as the latter but box office measures success on the basis of success at that moment and not at a later moment. Laila Majnu was one one of the biggest music albums of seventies and it was before HKKN. It is again the handiwork of media to attribute Rafi comeback to some people when there was no comeback because Rafi was already there.The only thing that happened in 77 is that Rafi songs from the same films got more attention/coverage on the charts.I am one of the biggest Rafi fans but can’t digest the fact as to why My Name is Anothy Gonzalves wasn’t featured in the annual binaca parade of 77 while Rafi’s Parda He was No 2 of the year.In terms of absolute popularity I didn’t see much difference in these songs.Earlier the same charts didn’t give Rafi carvan songs the place they deserved and treated it unfairly as against Kishore’s mediocre solo.
In short I do subscribe to some conspiracy and manipulation and anti Rafi lobby at works in early seventies to keep the titan at Bay ,but he was there and rocking . Is there a better male song in 73 than Tum Jo Mil Gaye Ho or Aaj Mausam.There may be at most equal songs but not better.It is unfortunate that they were suppressed unfairly and didn’t get what they deserved but in the hearts of music lovers /music companies/AIR et al these are the gems among others which prevailed and survived all these years.
More later
Naveen
July 18th, 2007 at 11:12 am
Friends, I am in a difficult position now, by first triggering a criticism of rd and then trying to defend him. Like rd-worshipping has gripped a large section of the Indian youth, I guess rd-bashing has also become a popular sport. I don’t fall into either of those camps. I have never questioned his talent as an md; after all, who am I, compared to Salil, OP, Jai, Madan Mohan, Laxmikant, Pyarelal and Manna Dey who held him in the highest esteem. Mr. Anmol Singh, if you ever get the chance to meet Pyareji again, ask him what he thinks of Pancham; his answer may shock you. And since all of you agree that there was something called a Rajesh Khanna wave, let me ask you this: who was rajesh khanna’s favourite md? KA, LP or RD?
myk, please don’t misinterpret what I said about rd vis-a-vis Jai. I never said that rd was equal to jai. What I said was that if you have to compare him with anyone, it has to be jai, given their styles. rd had the instinctive style of Jai. You might want to ask prakash ji why most of the big-banner producers who worked with SJ chose to work with rd after Jai’s death. My criticism of rd has more to do with what he could have done but didn’t do. Mr. Anmol Singh, yes, Naushad was a trend-setter. That is not the point I was trying to make. In the early seventies, during the Rajesh Khanna wave, do you seriously think that Naushad would have posed a serious threat to rd? Musical tastes had changed by then, and what had worked in the 50s and 60s wouldn’t have worked then. Among the old-timers, only SD held his own in the 70s; Jai would have if he had not passed away. OP lost his touch. MM was excellent as usual but he hardly ever worked for big-banner films.
We keep talking about the singers only, but never discount the musicians and arrangers. And that’s where RD had the edge. Manohari, Bhupi, Bhanu, Kersi, Maruti, Louis, Basu — they are all wonders of the music world. Buy a karaoke cd of rd’s music and sing kishore’s songs; you’ll be amazed at how well you sound. Gorakh, Shashikant, Ganesh and Sumit may have fallen a little too short. RD created a trend with Rafi-Asha in “aaja aaja”, then with Asha in “dum maro dum” and then with Kishore in “Yeh jo mohabbat hai”. Why LP, sd could never score over rafi with kishore. It’s rd who gave kishore the dimension that temporarily dislodged the emperor. I call it the “y” dimension. Out of the 26 letters of the alphabet, pancham focused on “Y”, which stands for yodeling and “yeh”. Yeh jo mohabbat hai, Yeh kya huwa, Yeh sham mastani… And in that “y” dimension, kishore was the king. RD had figured that out while helping his dad compose “yeh dil na hota bechara”. And while setting trends, chhote nawab was also composing:
ghar aaja ghir aaye
aao kahan se ghansyam
aaja piya tohe pyar doon
tumne mujhe dekha
raina beeti jai
chingari koi bhadke
badi natkhat hai ye
kuchh to log kahenge
…………….
myk, you are too young to truly appreciate the phenomenon that was rafi. We grew up at a time when there were different fan clubs for Dev Anand, Shammi Kapoor, Rajendra Kumar, Raj Kumar, Dilip Kumar, Dharmendra, Shashi Kapoor, Biswajit, Joy Mukherji, etc. etc. The only common thread connecting all these stars was rafi. For all the bakwhas in the media about Lata’s superiority, let me tell you that rafi was ahead of everyone in the game. And for all the talk about his sainthood — which is true — rafi was one of the fiercest competitors the music world has seen. If he were not, he wouldn’t have been ruling the hearts of millions of music lovers around the world, coming from a poor family in rural West Punjab.
The 100m sprint that Kishore ran was on the back of rd, and when rd started falling, lp started visiting rafi villa more frequently. That is the story in a nutshell. You can call rd a kingmaker or mischief-maker — depending on which camp you belong to — but you cannot ignore the footprints he left in the music world. I hope we all agree what would have happened in the post-1980 period had the farishta not passed away.
Please note that my analysis may not be to your liking, but I don’t like stretching the truth. I am not going to comment on this topic anymore.
July 18th, 2007 at 10:31 am
the composers who used Kishore before Aradhana with the exception of SDB only used him majority of the time in his own films, other than that he was hardly a top rated singer for hero’s. The Burmans should take credit for reviving his career.
It is sad that RD’s horizon was limited, in that sense he was not able to follow in the footsteps of his father.
July 18th, 2007 at 9:16 am
“Teri galiyon mein” first and Laila Majnu later was the rafi comeback
vehicle; laxmikant-pyarelal always supported rafi inspite of a powerful
lobby at work led by r.d-asha and late.
L and P made it a point that rafi sing for amitabh bachan in many
movies making them all time hits..
rafii taking a break after 2 decades of being on top of hindi playback
proved too costly and he had to work overtime to regain his place.
the talent showed up again and it could not be stopped - like the high
tide of the oceans.
But music lovers will never forget the treatment meted out to a
legend - by a hard core corrupt caucus of the times. Some of them
are still there making some noises which we have to tolerate for
some time to come.
binu nair binus2000@hotmail.com
July 18th, 2007 at 5:26 am
In all these years no one has better described the situation then sj in post number 49, although i just wish to make 1 minor correction.
” Rafi ran AND LED the marathon of singing and KK joined the race in the last 100 meters, led for the first 50 and still could not win the race…..the wise here will get my point”
*** i SURELY GET YOUR POINT
July 18th, 2007 at 2:53 am
I am not able to agree with Mr Haldar, although I admire his study and understanding of filmi music.
I feel Mr Haldar is trying to attribute Rafi Saheb’s so called decline between 1970-75 to RDB alone. RDB may have contributed by using Rafi saheb less and prefering Kishore da more, but to say that RDB was a singer maker or changed hindi music is too far fetched. The wave was such. But I read somewhere that Rafi Saheb sang nearly 1000 songs and Kishore da 1400 between 70-77 - Could someone endorse this.
RDB was always a commercial MD. SJ lost Shankar, Madan Mohan, Roshan and SDB died, OP Nayyar’s fall out with Rafi over a trivial matter and Rafi’s absence of 8 months realy timed Kishore da’s rise to fame. I am the greatest fan of Rafi Saheb, but Kishore da was also superb. Even his pre Aradhna songs are gems. From 70’s he took his singing career more seriously.
I can not buy the gossip that Lata-Asha were also instruemental in sidelining Rafi Saheb. Leave asha bhonsle, however good she is, she does not figure in my list of greats. I only rate Rafi Saheb, Kishore da and Lata ji as greats. In fact Lata ji has always paid rich tribute to Rafi saheb and takes great pride in claiming that it is her honour that she sang most songs with him. Even today, I feel Lata-Rafi songs are pure melody and no other combination is as supreme. Rafi-Asha under OP Nayyar and some others were sheer magic .
RDB enjoyed such popularity in 70’s that many good songs of Kishore da composed by LP or KA are also attributed to RDB. In fact in one of these forums one writers making similar error. A close friend and a devotee of Kishore da and RDB claimed the music of Safar, aan milo Sajna, Do Raaste etc to be that of RDB. It took me some explaination and fact finding to prove the stats.
More on RDB - I am sick of hearing that “Kya hua tera wada” of RDB in 1977 new lease of life to Rafi saheb. What about songs of Amar Akbar Anthony, Chacha Bhatija, Dharamveer. Many of Ravindra Jain’s songs in early 70’s sung by Rafi saheb were very melodious.
Mr Haldar questions Sonik Omi’s success rate. I still maintain Sonik Omi may have been “B” categorie commercialy, but listen to “Dil Nein phir Yaad Kiya”, Sawan Bhadon, Mahua ??? and research their limited but quality work and go only by percentage of good songs. I would like to know those stats.
To elevate RDB such long debates are initiated. Nobody talks of SJ or Madan Mohan ??? May be they did not have Asha Bhonsle kind of commercial wife. What a joke there is an award in honour of RDB.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:45 am
just go thru this and laugh,
http://www.ibnlive.com-news-lata-recounts-her-musical-journey-in-bollywood-45091-8.html
July 17th, 2007 at 10:12 pm
P. Haldar,
It is true that HKSKN was part of Rafi’s comeback, and I am surprised why it even took that long. From around 1974 when Rafi won the Film world magazine award for Usha Khanna’s “Teri Galiyon Mein” the comeback started.
Even MM’s Laila Majnu was a blockbuster score in 1976 and this was also part of that comeback. It is surprising that even with the huge number of hits that LP gave Rafi in the early to mid seventies, as well as other MD’s, the Rafi comeback is said to have been with HKSKN.
It is interesting that you compare RD with Jai, both were trend-setters, both had excellent command over orchestration and melody, both were top class in western music, but I would hold Jai a better composer of romantic melodies, for me there is no composer that touches him in this category. His Rafi love songs are enough proof of his talent in this genre. I really wish Jai had not passed away so early, most of those banners that went to RD would have stayed with SJ and the whole scenario would have been different.
What is interesting is that Rafi was a regular for RD right up until 1972. From 73-76 he used Rafi selectively, and in that time frame RD had around 50+ films including some released in the 80’s whose soundtracks came out in the 70’s. Out of those 50+ films, Rafi only sang in around 12 of them, a very low percentage and the bias is clear.
One more combo that would have been great in the 80’s would have been Rajesh Roshan-Rafi.
July 17th, 2007 at 6:48 pm
Hi Friends,
H R U.
This is Pappu Ji from Lahore.I would like to share that RDB should have thanked to Rafi Sahib who gave him such hillarious songs whaich can be well presented on Stage with contemporay POP music style.And even current POP singers are rendering these songs in their concerts even these days.
Like.
Poocho na yar kiya huwa,
Aa ga aa ga main hoon piyar tera
O haseena zulfoon wali
RDB has no such songs with KK even die hard association.
RDB work is not a ballanced work. He missed the opportunity to give the people a change that was Rafi Sahib. All his work revolve arround KK or Asha to some extent. I dont think that RDB has modernized the Indian music.It was OP Nayer who brought a modern style in Indian music with catchy and melodies tunes.He brought the indian music out of typicle Classical touch.He made the Asha a Real ASHA. His tunes are occupying a main place in every second Mobile Phone Tones. Lay k pehla pehla piyar is leading in this connection.
Indian media is creating hype about RDB. His class is good but not of the caliber that can overshadow other great MDS. Although he had bias withRafi Sahib,yet he used Rafi Shib when he had no other choice.It is a fact.Which tunes he gave to the Maestro, those were beyond the compass of any other singer.So he was constraint to do so with no other choice.How many songs he has with KK like AA GA AA GA, O HASINA ZULFOON WALI, POCHO NA YAR KYA HUWA, with pop touch, and a duet with Asha Je From Bulandi, HUM JAB EK SATH HAIN, with a classical touch which is the halmark of Rafi sahib. In this song Rafi sahib showed his class when he uttered, :Kehtay hain jisay” DILL-O-JAN KA ROG. IN the stanza “KEHTAY HAIN JISAY” HE used his the best classical skills and sung in very high pitch which was beyond the scale of any singer.Thats why this song went to Rafi Sahib,otherwise KK was the only choice for RDB even for this song.
Dont think that RDB did not gave his tunes to Rafi Sahib. When it comes to difficult song,he was bound to give it to the maestro.
After the demise of Rafi Sahib, Filmi Qawali also died in Indian Cinema. RDB owed to Rafi sahib for the rendation of Qawalies. Here are a few with Asha Jee.
Yar mil giya to khuda mil giya,
HUM kisi say kum nahin,
Dakhi hazaron mehfilain, Film Naukar
Pal do pal ka sath hamara Film The Burning Train
Above Qawalies placed RDB as a best Music director in Qawali Making. KK was not able to meet the expectation in this matter.
Rakasa Mera Nam was the best rendation in ARABIC Style. AA Rat jati hay in PUB/Opera singing STYLE from Benam.So RDB was bound to give the tunes to Rafi Sahib with no alternative.
Chura liya hay is the most famous than any other song from RDB.
A little work of Rafi Sahib can not be ignored from RDB music.This is the
greatness of Rafi Shib. Rafi sahib always made his presense felt despite of a short appearance.
HATS OFF TO RAFI SAHIB.
July 17th, 2007 at 6:44 pm
Reg. Post No. 43
Dear Haldar Ji,
No doubt, I have heard, enjoyed and assessed an adequate number of Rafi songs, to generally know what kind of a divine genius he is. But, considering the breadth and the depth of the Rafi treasure, I still consider myself as one of the six blind men (as in the “Elephant and Six Blind Men” story). I am forever trying to explore this phenomenon called “Mohammed Rafi”! And in this mission, I can say that this Hamaraforums.com is helping me immensely.
There, I keep stumbling upon one rare Rafi gem after another. When I get one such, I keep thinking that it is an ultimate melody, but soon enough, I get another and my attention gets diverted to that one. Thus, only Rafi songs are superior to Rafi songs!
It is simply pleasure to have had this discussion with someone so knowledgeable as yourself!
Venkat