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Did R.D.Burman really preferred KK over Rafi?

This article is written by Mr.H.V.Guru Murthy.

A regular browser to web site mohdrafi.com, having gone through the letters of Rafi lovers would assume that R D Burman did not utilize Rafi properly, instead he preferred Kishore Kumar. Because of this reason, Rafi Fans are still upset with RDB even though he passed away a decade back.

Yes, it is true that RDB preferred KK over Rafi during early seventies. For that matter, which Music Director or Actor or Producer or Director will not have his preference. It was well known that Raj Kapoor always preferred Mukesh, Manoj Kumar preferred Mukesh or Mahendra Kapoor, B.R.Chopra films had Mahendra, MD Ravi also had plenty of songs with Mahendra so also O.P after he broke with Rafi. Similarly OP always had either Asha or Geetha Dutt and never Lata. Salil also used all other Singers. Director Subba Rao insisted on Mukesh for SAATHI even though the hero was Rajendra Kumar and MD Naushad, two Rafi Fans. Even Kalyanji Anandji had many films with Mahendra Kapoor, Mukesh and KK even though Rafi was instrumental in their raise through JAB JAB PHOOL KHILE, AAMNE SAAMNE, etc. LP, by all means Rafi Bhakts, used KK regularly in the early seventies even for Rafi heroes like Jeetendra, Dharmendra, etc. SJ also switched over to KK in movies like MAIN SUNDAR HOON, DIL DAULAT DUNIYA, KAL AAJ AUR KAL, etc. Of course, the music standard came down a notch or two in that period. But, well, it is their prerogative to have whomsoever they wanted though I am sure in heart of heart, why even openly, they would have admitted the superiority of Rafi over all other Singers. Similarly, RDB also used KK for almost all his movies in the early seventies as perhaps he had some special chemistry with him.

However, let us not forget that RDB used Rafi extensively during late sixties as his main playback singer right from the first movie. He gave hit music with Rafi in TEESRI MANZIL, NAQLI NAWAAB, CARAVAN, PYAAR KA MAUSAM, THE TRAIN, ABHILASHA, ADHIKAR, RATON KA RAAJA, etc. Later during late seventies he returned to Rafi and gave hits like SHAAN, HUM KISISE KUM NAHIN, ABDULLAH, ZAMANE KO DIKHANA HAI, etc. In between, he had Rafi in CHANDI SONA qawali with Mannadey (Ek Shok Hasina Se), YADON KI BAARAT (Title song and who can forget the duet with Asha Chura Liya Hai Tumne), DIL KA BAADSHAH (this Raj Kumar starrer had all songs by Rafi), THE GREAT GAMBLER (Raftasa Mera Naam), SHEHZADA (Solo Tere Attaroo and duet with Lata Kaahe Ko Bulaya), etc.

Mohd Rafi with R.D.Burman

If a person cannot appreciate the greatness of Rafi, then it can be safely concluded that the person does not have a sense of music. Of course, RDB was a good MD though not a great MD like Naushad, Madan Mohan, OP Nayyar, SDB, etc. RD would have definitely known the great qualities of Rafi, the Singer. Just because he did not use Rafi extensively as one would expect, let us not degrade this MD who gave us some good songs in CHANDAN KA PALNA, PADOSAN, HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA, MERE JEEVAN SAATHI, AJNABEE, AMAR PREM, SANAM TERI KASAM, BHOOT BANGLA, BAHARON KE SAPNE (Rafi solo Zamane Ne Maare), PARICHAY, KINAARA, APNA DESH, ZAHREELA INSAAN, RAMPUR KA LAKSHAMAN (Pyaar Ka Samay with Lata, KK and Rafi), 1942 – A LOVE STORY, KATI PATANG to certain extent, etc. though he gave some very mediocre music in films like DEEWAR, SHOLAY, KITAAB, ZAKHMEE, RAFOO CHAKKAR, NAMKEEN, DHARAM KARAM and BIWI O BIWI (so un-RK film like), etc. so many forgettable movies as for as music was concerned.

The irony of RDB was either he gave good music or petered out to a very mediocre music in so many films. I read some where that Shashi Kapoor called RD as National Anthem Music Director. In those days, theatres used to play National Anthem at the end of the movie and the Hall doors used to be shut till the completion of the Anthem. As soon as the Anthem used to commence, our in-disciplined people used to rush to the Hall Door and wait for the door opening. Similarly, whenever RDB songs commenced in most of the movies, people used to rush to toilet.

Still, it is not fair that we use harsh and sometimes, un-parliamentary language against any body if they differ with our views. We cannot forget the contribution of all these MDs, Heroes, Singers, Directors, etc. in making the Indian Film Music so rich.

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1,380 Blog Comments to “Did R.D.Burman really preferred KK over Rafi?”

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  1. myk says:

    P. Haldar,

    I have sent you an email (please check your account).

    How would you rate the original Bengali songs of SDB vs the Hindi/Urdu re-makes ?. Do you think in most cases, SDB improved upon the Hindi/Urdu re-makes or was it the other way around ?.

  2. Binu Nair says:

    Paramjit ji : Recording room me aisa bahut baar huwa hai ke kishore da aaye aur recording kar nahi sakha. unhon ne kaha composer se : aap aapke gaayak ko bulwa do. ( meaning mohd rafi saaheb ).

    composers ne mujhe yeh bataya hai . mr.sandeep nadkarni jo ek musician hai unhon ne bhi yeh bataya hai. is ka matlab kya hai? jarra bataiye….

    one-up-man-ship yahan par nahi kiji-yega is liye ke mohd rafi saaheb ke gaane aur unka charitra “amar” hai.

    kayee baar insaanon ko janam lena padega, mohd rafi banne ke liye – phir bhi nahi “ban paayega”.

    aap guru kishore da ke pankha hai, yeh achi baat hai. hum bhi guruji ko pyar karte hai .
    aur, hum unse milkar baat bhi kiye hai. par unke kam gaane pasand hai hamein, par woh saare “laajawaab” hai.

    all the best for kishore kumar and to you.

    binu nair.

  3. arghya says:

    Teesri Manzil was a great work from RD.. But I don’t think it was the greatest.. Or to say, he never created again a classic like “Teesri Manzil” is also a bit of exaggaration to me.. Looking at the variety of music this great legend had given in his life time i would rank “Amar Prem”, ” Ijazat”, “Aandhi” and “Masoom” to be higher in rank than jazzy and peppy tracks of Teesri Manzil.. Or for that matter, if we rate Teesri Manzil to be his greatest than why not “Mere jeevan Saathi” in the same line of evaluation?

  4. Anil Cherian says:

    Guru Murthy sir:
    Could you once again clarify whether ‘dil tadpe tadpaye..’ is sung by Rafisahab. I’ve seen it in the youtube (not too good in terms of audio quality) and have a feeling that it’s Mahendraji. May be it’s because it’s Mr.Bharat on screen and because the voice is pretty heavy (due to the sustained low-notes).

  5. paramjeet says:

    Binu bhai..
    Aur ek baat.. Aap bahut hi filmi kisam ke insaan ho, at least mujhe aesa lagta hai.. Aap apne vocal strength ke wajah se is forum me respect gain karte ho, naa ki knowledge ke wajah se.. Rafisaab ne kishoreda ke liye kitne gaane gaye us se kya prove hota hai? Waise, main pehle aapke “Quiz Contest” ka jawab de doon:

    1. 2 songs in Bhagam Bhag(1956), 2. 1 song in Raagini(1957), 3. 1 song in Shararat(1959), 4. 1 song in Baghi Shehzada(1964), 5. 1 song in Pyar Deewana(1972).. In gaano mein, sir, except “Man Mora Bawra” in Raagini, aesa koi bhi gaana nahi hai jo ki mujhe lagta hai Kishore nahi gaa sakte the. Man Mora bawra bhi woh ga sakte the, mujhe poora vishwas hai, magar koi music director yadi sochte hai ki rafisaab better ga sakta hai, to main bahut hi chhota aadmi hoon contradict karne ke liye.. Baaki jo bhi gaane, Rafisaab ne gaaye woh mainly market preference ke liye hi tha.. Jab rafisaab top pe the, aur sabhi MD ya producers chahte the ki Kishoreda ke pictures me bhi rafisaab ke gaane rahe, jo ki bilkul sahi soch hai.. Is ke saath gayaki ka koi sambandh nahi lagta mujhe(Man Mora Bawra- main fir se bol raha hoon, haan, exception hai).. Aur Man mora Bawra jaise raagatmak gaane Kishoreda ne apne career me baad me gaye bhi hai, magar 1957 me, agar O P Nayyar ochte the ki Kishore da nahi ga payenge, to is soch me koi buraai nahi hai..

    Mujhe abhi bhi samajh nahi aa raha hai, aap ke is prashna ka mahatwa kya hai.. Fir bhi aap jaana chahte hai to bata diya.. Waise “Paisa Hi Paisa” movie mein “Bin Paisa Har Khel Hai Jhootha” gaane me last ke ek line me Rafissab ke gaane ka lip kishoreda pe pad gaya tha( yeh Gaana Kishoreda, rafisaab , Lataji aur ashaji ne gaye the).. Kishoreda khud ke liye ga rahe the aur Rafisaab ek co-artist ke liye.. Last line Rafisaab ka tha, jisme picture me woh lip kishoreda ka pad gaya tha.. Isme koi gayaki mat nikaliyega, hansi aayegi mujhe.. Ise picturization mistake bhi bol sakta hai..

  6. paramjeet says:

    Binuji..kya mere GK ka test le rahe hai.. Aap ko pure sanman dikhate hue main 2-4 dada ke desh prem ke gaane batana chahoonga jo mujhe poora vishwas hai aapne nahi soona hoga(aapne kishoreda ko zyada nahi suna, yeh aapke baaton se hi pata chalta hai)..krupaya sun lijiyega:

    1. 15 August ki punya tithi fir dhoom dham se aayi( Non-Filmi song) Recorded in 1948! yeh dada ka doosra recorded solo tha “Marne ki Duayein ke baad”, magar is gaane me “Punya Tithi” shabd sarkar ko pasand nahi aaya, aur is gaane ko 1 hafte ke baad ban kar diya gaya.. yeh gana mere paas hai, chaho to aap le sakte ho.

    2.Gandhi tere desh mein yeh kaisa atyachar.. Film ka naam hai Nasbandi

    3. Bangla song from oscar winning movie maker Satyajit Ray( koi bangali yahan is forum me hoga to jaanega)- Chal Re chal sab Bharat santan.. Movie hai Ghare Baaire(1985).. Music: Rabindranath Tagore(yeh ek desh prem ka rabindra sangeet hai)

    4. Dekho veer jawanon(yeh to suna hi hoga.. Akraman-975.. Aap ke chahite Laxmi-Pyare ka sangeetbadh)

    5. Chana jor garam(Lataji aur Mahendra Kapoor ke saath Kranti movie hai.. suna to hoga yeh bhi)

    6. Yun neend se woh jaane chaman jaag uthi hai, pardes mein teri yaad watan jaag uthi hai( Raag yaman pe adharit yeh gaana Dard Ka Rishta movie se hai)

    7. Hum log hai aise deewane manzil ko pakar manenge- Umang movie 1970 me aaya tha..

    Binuji..mujhe is baat se koi aitraaz nahi hai ke aap rafisaab ko best maante ho.. Magar mere jaise log jo Kishoreda ko best aante hai, unko aap respect show nahi karte kyunki aapne Kishoreda ko achhe suna hi nahi hai!! Satyajit Ray, Lata mangeshkar(yoodleeyoo mein arghyaji ne ek achha article upload kiya hai jisme Lataji ne haal hi mein kishoreda ko best batayen hai), Bhimsen Joshi, Asha Bhosle jaise hastiyon ne jisko best kaha hai, unko agar main bhi best manoo to usme gussa kyun hote ho.. Kahi par bhi maine rafisaab ko insult to nahi kari hai na?

    Aur rahi baat classical aur semi-classical ki, yeh sawal poochhke fir se aapne aapki ignorance jahir ki hai kishoreda ke upar.. kyun ki main vishwas ke saath keh sakta hoon aapne ” Payalwali dekhna”, “husn bhi hai udaas udaas”, “des chhudaye bhes chhudaye kya kya kare na preet”, “aamaar moner ei mayur mahale”( bengali song- dada ka khud ka composition, aapke param mitra haldar saab se leke sun lijiyega), “amaar deep nebhaano raat”( aur ek bangla song, matlab mujhe pata nahi par Raag Bhairavi ka behtareen istemaal kiya hai, yeh bhi dada ke khud ke composition hai)- yeh kuchh bhi gaana nahi suna.. Aur mujhe to yeh bhi lagta hai ap jo classical karte firte ho, aapko khud ko classical training bhi nahi hai.. nahi to Raag Khambaaj aur Raag Kalavati ke sangmishran pe “Kucch to Log kahenge”, raag yaman pe adharit “Woh dekhe to unki inayat” aur ” Yun neend se woh jaane chaman”, Raag Shivranjani pe adhaarit “Mere Naina Sawan bhaadon”, ya Raag Bhairavi pe “Amaar deep nebhano raat” aapke nazar se bahar kaise ho gaye.. pehle Kishoreda ko achhe se suniye.. Woh gaane jo chitragupt, madan ohan, anil biswas, husnlal bhagatram aur khemchand prakash ne kai saal pehle unke liye banaye the..

    Mujhe english nahi aati aur aap yeh samjhe ki ek anpad, ganwar kishore kumar ka violent fan aa gaya hai aap ke community me, to aap galat hai.. yeh nacheez benaras me sangeet visharad kiya hai aur sangeet achhi tarah se samjahta hai aur Rafi aur Kishore dono ko sanman karta hai.. Magar, yadi mera pasand kishore kumar hai to isme buraai kya hai?

    Kya samjhe binu nair saab.. Ab main aap ki pareeksha loon, raag raaginiyon ke upar? Apka agla prashna bhi mujhe pata hai aap kya poochhige- “Ke sangeetkaro ne fir Kishore da se raaga based song zyada kyun nahi gawayein”? Iska uttar bhi aap jaante ho.. Rafi saab ke fast songs kya kam hai? ya woh kharab gaate the? Magar 70s mein jab fast music ka chalan hua to MDs Kishore ko zyada prefer karne lage.. Is ke saath gayaki ka koi sambandh nahi hai..

    * arghyaji: aap ke articles maine pada yoodleeyoo mein..achha laga.. Sangeet me aapke knowledge kaafi achhi hai

  7. P. Haldar says:

    ref post 1079:

    dear myk,

    bengal had too much home-grown talent — I will talk about them with you in private — and there was no need for rafi to play in that market. After Saigal, among the non-bengalis (I’m not counting great singers like Bhupen Hazarika who are fluent in the language), Talat made some impression but it is the two sisters who were really amazing. The elder one teamed with mainly Hemanta and Salil and the younger one with pancham and sudhin dasgupta. If you listen to asha’s songs composed by sudhin dasgupta, you will be totally floored. I suggest you listen to the following song: kon se alor swapno niye kano amai…

    The “gulmohorer phool jhorey jai” song was not composed by pancham, but by his assistants basu-manohari in 1978. I’ve heard rafi sing it live twice; it’s a very good song. Just before he passed away, rafi recorded an lp of nazrul geeti (songs written by Bengal’s rebel poet kazi nazrul islam). The record was compiled by the late poet’s wife and the music was arranged by Y. S. Mulki, sj’s one-time arranger and accordionist. I had purchased the lp; it had eight songs. I found one of them on youtube. it’s an interesting song because the lyrics alternate between bengali and urdu; here it is for you:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3eRQEmMrhU

    But mr. a.t.m. salim had informed me that there was a ninth song, a muslim devotional, which was not included in the lp. I had never heard it before but while searching for rafi’s bengali songs, I found it; here it is:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STlMpHz5PEU&feature=related

  8. arghya says:

    Thank you Mr D P BIJOOR saab…

    Even I observed as a true rafisaab’s fan, you also did react to some harsh comments on this site.. But, unfortunately, there seem to be very few true fans of music like u or me..

    Anyways, some more great compositions of Salilda for rafisaab came in “Poonam Ki raat”, “Chand Aur Sooraj”( Salilda’s last work with rafisaab), “Do Bigha Zameen”,”Usne Kaha Tha”(Chalte Hi jana- one of my favourites, a timeless duet of Mannada and Rafisaab)..

  9. arghya says:

    Some articles.. Just as a neutral observant, I have uploaded in yoodleeyoo.com.. Did not have the confidence to upload them here( too much of bad mouthing already happended against this poor chap:)… Just joking.. Please look at them anyone interested in good music analyst.. I did not hurt any good soul of anyone there..Just some though processes which came to my mind and as an extrovert as I always am, put them down..

    Any thoughts, in “good spirit” would be welcome..

  10. H.V.GURU MURTHY says:

    Bijoorji,

    I think the last song of Rafi for Salil was from the movie ‘Poonam Ki Raat’ released in 1964 starring Manoj Kumar and Kumud Chugani. The wonderful song was “Dil Tadape Tadapaye”. All other songs of this movie were sung by Lata, Asha and Mukesh.

  11. binu nair says:

    About two great composers :

    salilda is an outstanding music composer . we all respect him. but he lost his music making sense – mainly after his second marriage.

    said dilip kumar at a salil da function many years back : if salilda had not gone for his second marriage, he would have been a bigger composer than what he is.

    the second composer who lost his moorings after the split and second marriage is rahul dev burman . how many teesri manzils came from the musical genious?

    my friend c m desai, the encyclopedia of film music tells me that rd burman was a great person in his personal dealings and he signed many films – so that he could pay his staff. great thoughts and truly a great man.

    all immortal men.

    binus

  12. binu nair says:

    For Paramjeet :

    I have asked you two questions about guruji kishore kumar and you are evading them; for your benefit i will post it again for a reply.

    a) Please tell us four patriotic songs sung by kishore da.

    b) Please tell us also how many classical/semi-classical songs did guruji kishore da sing in his forty plus years singing career.

    also please tell us how many songs mohd rafi – the powerful god of varied varieties of playback singing, sing for our talented guruji kishore kumar.
    also add the films name. let me test your knowledge of guruji.

    please do not dodge and say thrash like in your post of 1083….. and please do not beat around the bush which will make guruji turn in his grave in khandwa, ( madhya pradesh ) not west bengal.

    ===============================================

    haldar saaheb : yes , the song mentioned in the post 1088: fits the jokers who come in as guests and leave the stink of their one sided musical tastes.
    long live indian music.

    =================================================

    for rajesh roshan lovers : an interview with rajesh saaheb is lined up and music lovers may send me sample information they would love to be asked and reported . please write to my email account urgently.

    =================================================

    Pune function : a musical rafi nite is being organised in pune on 14th Feb. at the s m joshi hall at karve road. please note that the function is by invitation only and the chief guest is Mr.Enoch Daniels, the legendary piano/accordian artist from the music industry.

    binu nair, rafi foundation, mumbai…. +9833 250 701

    =================================================

  13. P. Haldar says:

    dear nadkarni ji,

    on behalf of all rafians, let me express our profound thanks to a musician who played with rafi saab, our idol. I know for a fact how much the musicians of the hindi film industry loved him and we reciprocate that love and respect to you and to the rest of the musician fraternity. And thank you for helping us untangle one of the knots that we had a difficult time with for a long, long time.

    Please don’t listen to the brats who come here and attack you. They read articles that are not worth the paper they are printed on. They listen to fm channels where round the clock (24X7) they listen to the pandit-guru jugalbandi. And when the jockey (“joker” is a better word) tells them that pandit pancham had crossed the border to plead with parveen sultana to sing one of his songs, they dance with joy. I, and most of the rafians I think, believe you much more than these magazines and dj’s.

    binuji, have you heard this song:

    Ajeeb Daastaan Hai Yeh
    kahan Shuru Kahan Khatam
    yeh Manzile Hai Kaunsi
    na woh Samajh Sake Na Hum

    Strange world it is, for sure.

  14. Post 1080, dear arghyajee
    It is indeed a great pleasure to read your various comments on this site. We all can understand your deep feelings & great respect especially for Salilda and indeed the undersigned respects your values a lot.
    Arghyajee you have taken me down the memory lane in those old days when the 3 greats in the form of Bimal Roy, Salil Choudhari (Salilda) & Shailendra have together rendered evergreen classic films like Madhumati, Parakh & various others. In fact most of the movies created by the giant Bimal Roy had music being composed by none other than Salilda
    Rafi Saabs great songs under the music composition of Salilda to name a few were:
    1) Tuthe huve kwabon ne hamko ye sikhaya hai — Madumati
    2) Koi son eke dil wala koi chandee ke dil wala — Maya
    3) Tasveer teree dil mein jis din se utaree hai– Maya
    Due to certain unforeseen circumstances Rafi Saab & Salilda were never to be seen again after the hit film Maya which was indeed a great loss to the overall class of the music lovers in the Country.
    Arghyajee in this democratic country of ours the overall class of the viewers & admirers have a lot to say & write in respect of any subject whatsoever but ones personal liking & love always makes the difference.
    Please keep up the good show Arghyajee & wish you all the best in all your future endeavors
    Thank You
    Mr D P BIJOOR

  15. ZTAS-77 says:

    RDB is one of my most favourite MD’s due to his catchy tunes which I personally think was Kishore’s main platform to the top spotlight in the playback field.
    Yes RD & Kishore matched well but I think Rafi’s voice would have suited RD just as well if RD gave Rafi more songs to sing. There must have been a closer chemistry between RD & Kishore than Rafi. I always felt RD had betrayed Rafi to an extent since RD used Rafi alot in the 60’s.

    RD apparently quoted that “Kishore had one up upon the others (referring to Rafi & Mukesh) because Kishore could make a given song completely his own” although this can be debated. No doubt Kishore was a very good singer, in some cases having the upper edge over Rafi when it came to particular fast paced demostrative numbers, obivously Kishore had a harder tone voice to suit.

    I often imagine how RD/Kishore numbers would have sounded in Rafi’s voice and I personally think “some” of these numbers would have sounded better in Rafi’s voice. Maybe to an extent Producers & Directors at the time preferred the RD/Kishore combo for popularity marketing reasons! Who knows?? The fact is RD used Rafi more in the late 70’s since Hum Kisise Kum Nahin, then again Nasir Hussian being the Director always used Rafi & RD in his films right from Teesri Manzil. Fate was destined that Rafi came back on top to rival with Kishore in the late 70’s and fate again took Rafi away from us at a time when he would have made an impact for the 80’s era.

  16. Aur Sandeepjee aap ne hum sabko rula diya. Thanks for bringing forth a very rare & unique quality of Rafi Saab vide your Post 1078.
    Dear Sandeepjee – there are certain facts which indeed look & will sound beautiful in their original hidden form. We all have a sacred duty to perform when we are born in this World. Apna karm (duty) karo magar phal (fruit) ka intezar na karo.
    Indeed Rafi Saab was a true Gandharva – jo is dhartee pe aaya, apna karm nibhakar chala bhi gaya, lekin jate jate chod gaya apne un yadoon ko jo zindagee bhar hamara saat deta rahega
    Mr Nadkarni, please ….. after 29 long years after he left us for his heavenly abode; please do not bring forth any such hidden treasures of the recording rooms henceforth.
    Un yadoonko ab to bhulana hee behetar hai
    Main aapke pair padata hoon — Sandeepjee

  17. P. Haldar says:

    ref post 1078:

    nadkarni saab, aur kuchh mat kahiye; sab samajh gaya. Let’s not reopen the wounds. Let’s enjoy his songs; he is still with us!

  18. paramjeet says:

    Kishore saab ki awaaz bachpan me bahut hi kharab thi.. Bahut rough voice tha jo ek accident ke baad Kishore kumar ek mahina roye lagaataar aur unki awaaz theek ho gayi kafi had tak…

    Jo Asjok kumar ke comments ki baat kar rahe hai sandeep ji woh Ashok Kumar kishoreda ki bachpan ki awaaz ko yaad karke bole hai.. Sandeepji agar politically is comment to use karna chahte hai Kishoreda ko insult karne ke liye, to kya bolun main?

    Aur ek baat, Ashok Kumar- ek non-singer- Kishoreda ko besura bolne se aap log luft uthate ho, maje lete ho us comment ki to mera yeh kehna hai Anil Biswas ne fir kya galat bola ki Rafi ko gaana nahi aata? at least Anil Biswas knew music better than ashok kumar? Jo baat humlog bolte aa rahe hai wohi baat aap log aapne immaturity me prove karte ja rahe ho.. Aur yeh baat hai-

    ” Agar X kehta hai Kishore kharab hai to woh kishore ki galti hai, magar agar Y kehta hai ki rafi kharab hai, tab to sala Y ka khair nahi.. Usko gaali do, dhikkar do, samaj se bahar nikaal do.. ”

    Ab aap yeh bologe, paramjeet, shukr karo tumhare comments hum yaha post karne de rahe hai, hum kitna dariya dil hai etc. etc. magar Kishoreda ke baare me yeh sab ganda politics karke aap apni auqat deekha rahe ho..

  19. H.V.GURU MURTHY says:

    If one listens to “Tasveer Teri Dil Me” carefully, no where one will feel that Rafiji has faltered, on the otherhand, will feel that this song is Rafiji’s one of the best melodious and romantic song. In fact, if you impartially notice, in the first antara, when Lataji sings “Naino Ka Kajra” at high pitch, her voice becomes shrill, though otherwise Lataji has matched Rafiji and that is the reason, the song is so good. At the same time, Rafiji’s voice is steady when he sings “Jahan Hai Kadam Tere” in the second antara.

    It may please be noted that we are also big fans of KK. Personally I feel KK was very good in fiftees and sixties when he was singing mostly for himself and Dev Anand. But in seventies, as the quantity increased the quality suffered. Given an option I would still like to listen to KK numbers like,

    1. Hawaonpe Likhdo.
    2. Aa Chal Ke Tuzhe.
    3. Dukhi Man Mere.
    4. Mere Mehboob Kayamat Hogi.
    5. Jeevan Ke Safar Me.
    6. Meri Neendon Me Tum.
    7. Gata Rahe.
    8. Panchi Hun Me.
    9. Wo Shaam.
    10. Jeevan Se Bhari.
    11. Bekarare Dil.
    12. Chotasa Ghar Hoga.

    Also, I request all the participants in this forum (whether Rafi fans or KK fans) to maintain certain decorum and use words diplomatically. We are “Rafians” and not “ruffians”.

  20. arghya says:

    Paramjit..
    i hope you can read english(as my hindi is pathetic and more so while writing hindi in english script:)

    such biased comments against the greatest soul rafisaab won’t make kishore kumar to be the best.. no one singer can be termed as best.. all had their own plus and minus.. let us be matured enough to understand and appreciate good music rather than throwing mud.. we are not pigs right who get pleasure in muds??

  21. arghya says:

    Sandeepji..

    Half knowledge is more dangerous than no knowledge..
    Your love towards Rafisaab is well appreciated by me.. I respect that..Probably you are one of the true passionate rafi fans in our society now..

    but to degrade salilda and Kishoreda the way you did in your posts is sad..

    I am into tears after reading your comments.. but I will not write anything against you, as in this site, people will support you more and any point put by me will not be taken in a sporting spirit..

    I can’t say after reading whatever comments I made in htis forum, Rafisaab would have been in tears or not( I didn;t use any offensive words nor did surojit), but to counter my views whatever you have written claiming yourself to be some remote violinist somewhere, after reading those great souls of Kishoreda and Salilda would definitely be in tears.. Calling Kishoreda besoora( I am not sure evn when ashok kumar made such remarks, but I know this much when his wife died, he asked Kishore to come to his home and closing the doors, throghout the night, kishore was singing “Zindagi Ka Safar” and ashok Kumar was crying…) and saying aapko salilda ko dada bolne me sharm aati hai. you have humiliated them msot…

    ALL THE COMMON FANS OF RAFISAAB, KISHOREDA AND SALILDA( I KNOW I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE IN THIS WORLD TO HAVE SUCH A PLEASURE) WOULD CURSE YOU MR. NADKARNI!! AND I WOULD NEVER PRAY YOUR SOUL TO REST IN PEACE..

  22. myk says:

    Dear P. Haldar,

    Can you please elaborate on Rafi’s Bengali songs, I am curious to know more about them.

    Why did the Burmans not go to Rafi-saab for their Bengali songs, when Rafi sang Bengali songs for many other composers, including Basu and Manohari, who were closely associated with the Burman camp. Both the Burmans gave Rafi remakes of their Bengali songs, but never the originals. I feel he would have done full justice to the Bengali versions just as he did to the Hindi/Urdu versions.

    The tune of “Gulmohorer Phul Jarey Jay” reminds me of “Diye jalte hain” from Namak Haraam which in turn reminds me of “Duniya O Duniya” from Naya Zamana.

  23. P Haldar Saab thank you very much for your post 1076
    Respect to Mr D P Bijoor Sir & Mr Binu Nair Sir
    I am indeed a very small human being to speak & write on a human being par excellance of the calibre of the greatest ever & our beloved king of melody — Mohammed Rafi Saab. In my personal opinion he was mostly the only one who was on the target list of the so called politicians who had always taken him for granted mainly because of his silent nature. On several recordings Haldar saab hum Rafi Saab ke pawan pairoon (holy feet) be girke khub roya karte, hune ye batakar ke aap itne chup kyon rehete ho aur sehete ho. Hamesha beta keh kar chup kara dete
    Haldar Saab hum chahe kuch bhee bhulane ko rajee hai magar unka yoon achanak se chale jana aur hame bina bataye — ye bhoj zindagee bhar hum bhula na paayenge
    Haldar Saab aur Binujee Rafi Saab bina bataye hamara dil apne saat lekar chale gaye. Unhone kitna sahi kaha tha — mehel udas aur galiyan sune — aur hum kahete hai — hamare har ek recording room suna aur galiya bhi sunee
    Unke janaje par humne kasam kahee thee ke hum unke recording room ke har ek julm ko duniya ke saamne layenge
    Tasveer teree dil mein ke recording par main khud extra & standby voilinist tha. Mujhe sharm aatee hai unhe salilda kehte huwe. Agar main unke jaga hota to ye film maya chod deta. That was a limit of height of politics that too above the status of the greatest ever
    Haldar & Binu Saab I still repent to be a small part of this bedard industry
    Long live the fragrance of Rafi Saab jho sahekar bhi chup rahe — Main chup Rahoonga!!!
    Haldar Saab aaj aapne mujhe rula diya

  24. PRADEEP KUMAR GUPTA says:

    Dear All,
    When SJ entered the world of HFM in late 40s, they had a very tough competition with the erstwhile stalwarts like Ghulam haider, Ghulam Mohd., naushad and others but they proved and established themselves as a team of most prolific music composers the Indian cinema has ever seen. If compared with other music composers like LP, KA, RDB then do one thing Just count total no. of moveies done by each and toatal no. of eclaimation in the form of awards they each received during their career. SJ gave music just for twenty two years before the untimely demise of Jaikishan, but they received maximum no. of Filmfare Award for 9 times for the lesser no. of movies they did than LP, KA, and RDB. They also received Padmashree age back in the year 1965. They received the award of best music director at Canne Film Festival, Paris for Boot Polish. They were the first and still only the Indian Film Music Directors to have global recognition for Awara, Shree 420 and others. So it is mathematically proved that they were far ahead and are still far ahead of LP, KA and RDB who stayed in the film industry for much longer period, did much more no. of movies than Sj but received much less accalaimation for their contribution to HFM. Apart from this after the sad demise of Jaikishan, Shankar gave music to a few movies on his own but in some of them he proved his mettle but what happened to Pyarelal and AnandJi? How many films they did after the demise of their other half? Plus they all copied not only the orchestration, composition style of SJ but some of their brilliant and vibrant pieces of interlude. Soem of the SJ interludes have even used by LP as mukhada of their songs. So this was the impact of SJ. Even among today’s composers of, most of them are ardent fans and admirer of SJ but not the others I have named here for comparison. What ever I have tried to conclude through this write up is based on the data available to their credit, otherwise I have no intention to underestimate any of the artists here. Hope the readers might have got the message. Eager to know yours opinion.
    Regards.
    Pradeep

  25. P. Haldar says:

    nadkarni saab, bahut bahut shukriya. It’s an honour for us to have a musician like you in our midst. Don’t worry about our guests; they visit us from time to time and we take good care of them. And when the return, they are a little older and wiser.

    I read your post on the “tasveer tere dil mein” with a lot of interest. It has always been my belief that something must have happened in the recording room for salil to get out of rafi’s maya and go back under talat’s chhaya. From your post, it appears that there were two players involved, but according to other reports, there was a third player. Was there any provocation from her side? (Friends, bengalis are still celebrating Saraswati Puja, so no disrespect please).

    I played the “koi sone ke dilwala” song three times yesterday; I never get tired of it. For some reason, rafi saab put extra mithaas into this song compared to dev saab’s regular quota… hai to sanam lekin patthar ke sanam yahan… only he could sing it that way.

    And then I played dwijen’s version of “ay dil kahan teri manzil” seven times. If I remember correctly, his version actually trounced lata’s version. I always found salil’s selection of dwijen for this song to be very strange, but from your post, I now realise what must have happened. Dwijen is a very good singer and has sung great songs for salil in bengali but for this one I think he made the wrong choice. First, dwijen’s voice does not match dev anand at all. I am surprised that dev did not veto his choice. Second, for this type of song, talat or shyamal mitra might have been a better choice.

    I finally did something. I audio-visualised the song in rafi saab’s voice. This would have been an all-time great song, even better than “koi sone ke dilwala”. What orcestration, what use of the chorus! Who arranged it? Was it Sebastian?

    If you would be so kind to respond to my query on the third player, it would clarify a lot of things for me. In her home (Salil) turf, she would have got such a jhatka that it’d take her some time to recover. Especially when she realised that her blue-eyed composer, the boy genius of film music, also couldn’t save her from “ehsan tera hoga mujh par” (No. 1 on binaca geet mala, the male version, for all those who care about such trivia).

    The pieces are slowly falling into place, one by one.

  26. unknow says:

    Sir ashish kapoor only your waiting for seven days i am waiting from more than seven months….

  27. Post 1067 & 1070
    Binujee I fully agree with your views & comments Sir, however the views & comments of Sandeepjee as expressed by him in his post 1070 are though apt & to the point the style & the fibre of the language used I personaly feel are a bit too harsh and heavy to consume.
    Kishoreda & Rafi Saab were infact very good friends & respected each other a lot, however the range of the comparative comments as expressed in this column mostly from the new entrants to this site are not welcome at all.
    This site is exclusively meant & directly linked to the memory of the Greatest Ever — Mohammed Rafi Saab and taking this into consideration I earnestly request the Administration Department of this beatiful site to please close this chapter thereby putting an end to the unwanted controversy
    An earnset request to all the dear fans & admirers of both the legends to please stop —-

  28. Imtiyaz A. Sharif says:

    Ref. Post 1064
    Paramjeet Babu:
    Film kay gaane hit hojaana gaane ki quality ki kasauti nahin hoti. Early 90s mein Bappi Lahiri ki filmon kay gaane bhi hit hotay thay, jaise; jha jha jha jhopdi mein cha cha char pai, taki re taki, oyi amma oyi amma, jhilele jhilele etc. etc. (list badi lambi hai) Aaj bhi Himesh kay gaane hit hotay hain aur bidi jalaile jaise gaanon ko award bhi milta hai to kya aap in gaanon ko standard songs kahenge??? hargiz nahin. In gaanon ki tulna Rafi sahab kay ganon se kya, Kishoreda kay ganon se bhi nahin karsatke.
    Hum Rafians yeh kabhi nahin kahe kay Kishoreda achche singer nahin the. Woh bahut hi achche singer the aur bahut achche gaane hamare liye chhod gaye hain. Par Rafi sahab ki gaiki se compare karna bilkul bachkaana baat hai. Is baat par siwaai hansi kay aur kuch nahin aasakti. Rafi Sahab poore 35 saal tak non stop hit par hit gaane dete rahe aur agar unki prematured death na hoti to pata nahin aur kitne saal yeh silsilah chalta rahta. Aap log bus yeh 5 – 6 saal ko lekar uchhal te rahte hain. Yaar, apna zauq aur apna standard badhao to phir aap ko sahi gaiki ka pata chalega.

  29. Dear Paramjeet Sir (Post 1064):
    Bahot khub Paramjeetbhaiya – kyon ke aap hindi bhi English mein bahot achha likhteho
    Congratulations for your fine & apt comments Sir,

    Kishoreda bure the aur sirf Rafida ache the ye baat kisne kahee aapse?

    Wohee Kishoreda ke liye Rafida ne chand khoobsoorat se gane gayee the shayad ye to pata hoga aapko paramjeetbhaiya.

    Isise aap andaza laga sakthe ho ke baap kaun aur beta kaun, kuch samjhe paramjeetsir

    Ek aur baat aap jante honge ke Kishoreda stage shows me kafee acche gaate bhi the aur usase accha nachte bhi the lekin wohee kishoreda recording rooms mein kitne acche nakhre karke nachte the ye baat shayad aap ko pata nahin kyonke ye baat sirf main janta hoon, because as I had said earlier I was myself a violinist and has done various songs under the music supervision of our dear R D Burmansaab aur ye sare pentre maine khud apne aankhon se deke hai
    Agar aap chahate hai to wohpyarbhare kisse aur pentre yahan par suna doon ?

    Mere Paramjeetbhaiya – Kishoreda ke liye tho khud unke bade bhaiya Ashokda ne kafee bar kaha tha – Ye besura play-back-singer kaise bana

    Kuch palle pada paramjeetsir ?

  30. binu nair says:

    post 1064 : please hamem chaar ache patriotic gaane aap ke guruji ke bataao aur us ke baad chaar gaane “classical” waala bataao. dhum chod kar mat bhaag jaana, sahi uttar dena aur doosri baat, hawa me kishore kumar saaheb ke waaste goli nahi chalana.
    expose ho jaaoge, tadpaoge. is liye ke kishore kumar ek bahut hi bada kalakaar hai. he needs no fools caliing themselves fans to talk about his greatness.
    aur jaan lijiye ke hamare bahut se saathi ne kishore kumar ke juhu ghar me mohd rafi saaheb ka aur k.l. saighal saaheb ka photo living room me dekhe hai.
    aap ek kaan se sunte hai kya, hindi music??????

    binus

  31. rafifan says:

    Dekhna taq’reer ki laz’zat ki jo usne’ kaha,
    Mai’ne ye’ jaana, ki goya ye’ bhi mere’ dil mein hai’.
    (Ghalib)

    Mr. Haldar, Mr. Dhani Ram, Mr. MYK, Mr. Anil Cherian, Mr. Guru Murthy and Mr. Binu Nair

    Whenever I read a post from one of these gentlemen; the above timeless beauty of Ghalib flashes through my mind.

    The only thing I will argue about with any of you gentlemen is that I am a bigger Rafi fan than you are. Although I know that this is an endless discussion and I will never win. And rightly so! By the way, perhaps Sonu Nigam will argue with all of us for having an edge in the love and respect for Rafi sahab.

    When someone comes to the site and trash-talks about Rafi, we all get upset but we should ignore them, as Mr. Haldar has requested earlier. There are a few interchangeable names that keep appearing on this site that have the same agenda. Looks like the same people posting the material with different names. Someone even stole my post name “Rafifan” and posted materials, some of which I do not agree with.

    Gentlemen keep up the good work. Mohammad Rafi is the name that will rule over the music lover’s heart forever.

  32. ashish kapoor says:

    Dear rafi fans and lovers,
    refer post 1052, haldar sir i fully support you and your views. sir i had posted a view of mine on the kk website and even after seven days it is still under moderation. it was in response to mr arghya’s comment adressed directly to me. it is this website of ours that allows for healthy discussions among its viewers.
    ashish kapoor, ashkpr@hotmail.com , 09810087414, 09212587414

  33. Anil Cherian says:

    Has anyone heard a song that goes ‘aga bai meike…..’, it sounds like some North Indian regional language. I understand it’s from a ’81 movie, Rafisahab’s voice is fab, almost on par with his late ’60s, early ’70s voice.

  34. binu nair says:

    some more stuff for rafi haters : all those who could not stand the success of mohd rafi – went away in to insignificance or suffered terribly in the last stages of their lives.
    c.ramchandra gave six songs in telugu to mohd rafi, just 2 months before rafi passed away. what does this show? and c.r. cried the most after attending rafi last rites. what does this show.
    there is a female singer in mumbai who used to call rafi besurra on many occassions. her daughter recently consumed sleeping pills and saved in the nick of time. i hear, this was for the sake of some properties of a music composer.
    my suggestion to writeres herein let mohd rafi and kishore kumar – rest in peace and ignore people like anil biswas and salil da who had their own axes to grind – during the heady days. and please do not forget the role of another female singer – who thankfully retired and keeping a low profile after a glittering singing career and back-room maneovres.

    binus

  35. Anil Cherian says:

    Anil B’s downfall has a lot to do with his bias. Other reasons are corollories/ derivatives of this. For instance, had he recorded with Rafisahab on a regular basis, he’d become part of some ‘team’ or the other. Along with this obvious bias, his obsession with Ms.Ivy also contributed to his pre-mature fall from fame (as it did with certain other good MDs) . Actually this obsession and ‘that’ bias went hand-in-hand for all these MDs and those who survived were the ones who were smart enough to see the writing on the wall.

  36. Anil Cheian says:

    I too believe that the ‘Maya’ thing is a bubble. I can’t find where Rafisahab faltered (after repeated listening to the song). Was it in high notes? It can’t be; the highest notes are nowhere near Rafisahab’s upper reach. Infact it’s Lataji who’s struggling there (no fault of hers but she’s close to her upper reach). Then where’s the issue; I’ve read some theories (from the writers who belong to the breed Haldar mentions) that Rafisahab is not hitting the ‘right’ notes or in other words he’s ‘besura’. It’s again a plain (but well-decorated) lie, the kind we’ve been reading here for the last 6-7 months. And as mentioned rightly by Haldar sir, this particular song isn’t the most complex one, It has a lot of assymmetrical, unpredictable notes progression (typical Salilda stuff), but nothing to test the calibre of good singers. Salilda has composed much more complex stuffs in Malayalam (I don’t know if these tunes are there in Hindi/Bengali).

  37. paramjeet says:

    Surajit bhai.. Post no. 1055

    badiya observation.. magar yahan pe yeh baat koi maanega nahi..bahut biased hai ye log!! C ramchandra aur Anil biswas ka downfall unko yaad hai, Naushad aur OP Nayyar ka nahi? 70s me kaha gaye woh sab Rafiwale? Naushad, OP Nayyar, Ravi, Shankar Jaikishan saare peet gaye? Ab ye bolenge 70s me quality down ho gaya tha.. to kya achhe quality ke gaane log sunte nahi the? Anand, Aandhi, Amar Prem, Anurodh, Rajnigandha, Abhimaan, Sharmilee ye sab pictures ke gaane hit kaise ho gaye?? Kyun, logo ko to ghatiya gana hi sunna tha na? Jo log Kishore kumar ko support nahi diya, is baar 70s me woh sab dub gaye.. Aur kuchh logo ne is change ko positively liya jaise Kalyanji Anandji, R D Burman, Rajesh Roshan, Ravindra Jain etc. jise unko Kishoreda ke voice aur bhi exploit karne ka mauka mila..

    Rafi ke against me jaane se kaun peeta yeh inko yaad hai, magar Kishore ke against jaane se kitne maharathi dharashayi ho gaye yeh to dekhe bhi andekha karte hai..

    Aur yeh bolte hai kishore kumar khaali superstars ke wajah se hit dete the?? Bhagwan maaf kare, magar dada ne background voice me aur chhote chhote heroes ke liye gaane itne hit kiye the jo bahut kam log kar payein hai.. Zindagi ke philosphy ke upar dada ne jo soulful gaane gaye hai, woh agar koi dekhe bhi andekha kare to mahapaap hai..

  38. My post 1046 & Arghyajees post 1048
    Dear Administrator of mohdrafi.com
    Sir today I would in fact like to make certain points very clear in this beautiful site.
    1) The song from the film titled MAYA – Tasveer teri dil mein jis din se utaree hai sung by Rafi Saab & Lata Mangeshkar with music scored by Salilda.
    Actual fact: Does any one know that it was Salilda who had altered this song on the sole instance of ——-? Rafi Saab then requested Salilda to alter his pitch mainly to match the tune of this song to which Salilda flatly refused and hence this particular song in fact was the last song which Rafi Saab had rendered with Salilda and not vise versa which please be noted very importantly. Further all the other solo & duets in this film were then recorded by Salildas find Dwijen Mukherjee
    Moral: The political players in this industry were various personalities, but for the simplest of Rafi Saabs nature & mannerisms he quietly bore the tantrums of the industry for several years without complaining.
    However we as Rafi Saabs admirers will not tolerate such nonsense which may please be noted
    I am aware of these tantrums of the recording rooms mainly since I myself was one of the violinist along with Mr Peter who were a part of the various recordings that have taken place mostly with RDB

  39. H.V.GURU MURTHY says:

    Bose Babu,

    Further to my earlier message, is it not a fact that MDs who extensively used Rafi and Lata were there in the forefront for a much longer time with very many films, as compared to other MDs who did not use these two GREATS. Mds who made extensive use of these two icons like Naushad, SDB, SJ, LP, KA, MM, Ravi, Roshan, Chitragupt, Khayyam and even RDB gave music for a longer period and for very many films and were definitely more successful. The music quality of these MDs need not be stressed again as even now we remember their songs. Compared to them, both period and quantity were less for MDs like AB, SC, CR, etc. and were less successful, even though they were highly talented. Some how these MDs missed the main line commercial cinema when they were at their peek perhaps due to their prejudice. Even MDs like Sonik Omi, Rajesh Roshan, Ravindra Jain, etc. who came at a much later period got benifitted with their association with Rafi-Lata. The only exception was OPN, who never used Lata but gave solid performance with Rafi, Asha and Geeta. And what happened to him when he discarded Rafi and Asha, every one knows.

    Well, I am not casting aspersions on the wonderful contribution of all other Singers like KK, Mannadey, Mukesh, Talat, HK, MK, Suman Kalyanpur, etc. who all have given us some wonderful songs to hum, but the fact that Rafi & Lata were the best and very versatile cannot be denied. Whichever, MD made use of these versatalities, survived and prospered and others were left to brood over and give controversial statements. Let us not forget that one of the MDs of the forties comemnted that after the advent of Rafi, they could go for much higher ranges as compared to earlier and this fact is true even now. After the golden period was over, for the past about 25 years, we have neither heard a high pitch song nor a beautiful qawali, nor a real classical song nor a hair raising patriotic song.

  40. P. Haldar says:

    Bengal produced so many musical greats in the 30s and 40s. One thing you won’t hear from the present-generation Bengalis is what some of these greats had to say about rafi. I’ve already shared with you what r. c. boral, the man who gave us saigal, thought about rafi. You already know in what esteem k. c. dey held rafi. Now here is what timir baran, a doyen of new theatres, had to say about rafi in a jaimala programme (see text below). Tell me why inquisitive journalists can dig out all the trash said about rafi but not dig out some of the golden nuggets heaped on rafi by the greats of New Theatres? It’s because their reporting is selective and biased. binu ji, what you are dealing with is a set of very media-savvy people who can change night into day (raat ke din kore dai). It is in that context I had requested you and the other rafi groups to form a strategic partnership with the shankar-jaikishan group.

    ——————-
    Timir Baran (Jaymala Gold, aired on 11th January, 2004, recorded in 1970)

    sach puuchhi_e to, mujhe bhaa_ii Rafi-saahab kii aavaaz ba.Dii pasa.nd hai. inake saare gaane hii mujhe achchhe lagate hai.n, lekin Kaasakar ‘Pyaasa’ film ke is gaane par to mai.n dil-o-jaan se fidaa huu.N. yah sa.ngiit hai Sachin-baabu kaa, yaani hamaare prasiddh sa.ngiitakaar S. D. Burman, aur bol hai.n Sahir Ludhianvi ke…

    … if you ask me the truth, I have a great love for Rafi Saab’s voice. Even though I like almost all his songs, but I am completely besotted by this song from Pyaasa. This music is by Sachin-Babu that is our famous music director S.D Burman and the lyrics are by Sahir Ludhianvi…

    Song played:sar jo teraa chakaraa_e

  41. Post 1056 – Mr Surajit A Bose
    Nice to hear your comments Sir but the actual fact goes as follows
    The dashing, handsome, debonair & popular hero of this film titled Teesri Manzil in fact was fairly against new composers mainly on account of the fact that all his previous great & popular films were mostly had music scored by none other than Shankar-Jaikishan and hence the hero was not keen in accepting RDB in this film
    However since Rafi Saab in fact was very much close to this hero he advised RDB to record the sample piece of the great song titled – Aja aja main hoon pyar tera – and eventually when the hero heard & listened to this song he actually jumped with joy – and here was the history established
    Hence it was by all means Rafi Saab who was instrumental in generating RDB in to this industry
    Hope the points are very Mr Bose.
    Thank You

  42. arghya says:

    I don’t have anything to prove to anyone.. At least tp those who don’t know Hindi Music History properly and keep on shouting.. Who don’t know what is the contribution of Ustaad Ali Akbar Khan in hindi film(just an example) because he has no connection with rafisaab and keep abusing others..

    I am not liable to give any evidence as they are my own collections.. I had given some links, all may please go through them, they will be good enough to prove my points..

  43. H.V.GURU MURTHY says:

    Boseda,

    Your Post no. 1055. I do not say that some of the MDs faded because they did not use Rafi. But fact is that all the MDs definitley needed the versatility of Rafi and Lata to demonstarte their talents. For example, RDB’s overdependence on KK resulted in RDB restraining himself and not reaching or proving his own capability as KK had certain limitations for certain songs, in spite of his enormous talent. The example of ‘Mehbooba’ song “Mere Naina Sawan Bhadon” was a case in point, where as Lata excelled, KK version lacked that some thing which a Rafi would have given with his vast talent.

    I agree declining of a MD depends on so many factors like their capability to change to the tastes of general public, the heroes, lyrics and of course their inborn talent, but it cannot be denied that MDs who used the versatility of Rafi and Lata survived for a longer period.

  44. myk says:

    Ref Post 1052:

    Dear P. Haldar

    Amen !

    I could not have said it better myself. These mischief makers only want to cause trouble, start illogical debates for no reason, take pot shots left and right, doubt facts, raise unwanted issues and so forth. Rafi is the envy of everyone because he truly was the greatest singer of all time. The very fact that we have to discuss such garbage issues proves that very fact. Ofcourse many other things also prove that Rafi was the best, but that is another seperate issue.

    Every singer is compared to Rafi, whether it be North, South, East, West (and around the world), musical discussions on singers always pinpoint to Rafi because he was the best, and so forth. We all know Rafi is truly the benchmark, like GMT time, the standard. On top of that, most musical personalities point to Rafi as the first and last word in playback singing, including Kishore who was one of the greatest Rafians. Besides all of the above, Rafi being the best can be seen through his rich repertoire, skills, talent, depth, variety etc. and his unmatched greatness is a confirmed fact, there is no need to discuss it or doubt it. I guess those who envy Rafi cannot stand the fact that a man from Lahore ruled the Indian Film music scene, and was the greatest singer of all time. Well too bad !. Their blood boils, and they are jealous, and then they have the audacity to say that we dont respect others (when we definitely do), and all other nonsense. Many of the things they bring up are hilarious and full of nonsense, their lack of musical knowledge shows. It is best to ignore these types of people. Anyone with any sort of musical knowledge will never dare to put others in the league of Rafi. Its only those who are bias, or who want to prove something which they cant, and so forth, tread those shaky waters.

    In regards to MDs being dependant on Rafi, many MDs fit that bill, some of which include OPN, SDB, SJ, Usha Khanna, LP, Ravi, Chitragupta, Naushad, MM etc. Pancham also depended on Rafi many a times, and whenever his back was against the wall, he also turned to Rafi.

  45. Surajit A. Bose says:

    Sandeep,

    regarding mess. 1046, while I would heartily agree that Rafi was a true gentleman, I think your example is inaccurate.

    It was Majrooh Sultanpuri who recommended RDB to Nasir Hussain (who was the producer of “Teesri Manzil”). There are a number of sites where this is specifically mentioned.

  46. Surajit A. Bose says:

    Mr. Guru Murthy,

    regarding message 1039,

    I don’t think the explanation is so simple. Like I said in my reply to Kapil, Biswas was on the way out by 1955 itself (even before Rafi became the top singer). The simple fact is he was either unable to or was not willing to change his music with the times. So no producer backed him.

    CR was dependent hugely on Lata. Most of his compositions were for Lata. He also used Talat and Hemant. People underestimate Lata’s clout in the music industry, esp. in the late 50’s when Asha was just starting her climb. Once CR and Lata had a fallout around 1958-1959, CR was cast aside by most big producers because Lata refused to sing for CR. And no producer could afford that. At least for male singers, there were some good alternatives like Manna Dey, Mukesh, and Kishore. But, among female singers, Lata ruled supreme. She made it very clear that she would not sing for CR. So the big producers had to choose between Lata and CR. Guess who won.

    And it is well known that Madan Mohan’s best compositions were with Lata. That alone would have ensured his surivival. Yes, he composed some great songs for Rafi. But was that the only reason for his survival in the ’60’s ?

    Also, movie making is a complex business. Every actor or MD or lyricist had his favourites, and then the film producers had their own priorities. For example, Dev Anand’s Navketan pictures always preferred to have SDB as their MD. SDB, esp. in the beginning, preferred Kishore and then Hemant as his singers, and preferred Sahir Ludhianvi as the lyricist. So they were a team.

    Similarly, Raj Kapoor, for his productions, preferred S-J as the MD and Mukesh (or Manna Dey) as his singers. And S-J liked Shailendra and Hasrat Jaipuri as the lyricists. They were another team.

    Similarly, Dilip Kumar’s and Rajendra Kumar’s big budget movies were mainly composed by Naushad, who himself preferred Rafi as the singer and Shakeel Badayuni as the lyricist.

    Biswas and CR were never part of any such team, and that was the main reason for their downfall.

    Among all the MD’s you have listed, I would only put OPN and LP as someone who were truly dependent on Rafi. However, LP were late entrants to the musical landscape. It wasn’t until 1964, with “Dosti”, that they gained popularity. And from 1971, they were dependent on Kishore more than Rafi, at least until 1977. So, they used Rafi exclusively for 6-7 yrs. So it would be an exaggeration to say they survived for “decades” because of Rafi.

    My point is it would be an overstatement to say that not using Rafi was the main reason some of the MDs faded away while others survived.

    Can you also explain why Naushad faded away after “Sanghursh” in 1968 ? Was it because he refused to use Kishore ? How about Madan Mohan ?

  47. Surajit A. Bose says:

    Hi Kapil,

    regarding message 1031, my point is pretty simple and can be verified easily.

    The point is NO big banner backed Biswas even BEFORE Rafi became numero uno.

    The last movie that Biswas composed for a big star was “Raahi” which starred Dev Anand, and that was in 1953. He also composed for “Naaz” in 1954 that starred Ashok Kumar who was not the top hero anymore then.

    He composed for some more movies after that but they were either for small time actors like Talat (“Waaris” – 1954) or yet-to-be-established actors like Pradeep Kumar (“Heer” – 1956).

    So, Biswas was falling away even before Rafi became the number one singer.

  48. Manish Kumar says:

    Arghya,

    You wrote: “In an interview in a bengali journal in 1989, he mentioned his unhappiness with Rafi regarding some songs which propeled him to unuse Rafi a bit, even though Rafi did good job in Madhumati and Maya.”

    Please send me that interview at my email address: hobgoblin707 at yahoo dot com ; Note: this is a secondary address that I don’t check regularly but I will this week.

    Thanks!

  49. P. Haldar says:

    Now if were a film journalist and I would like to write about Mukesh, whom would I interview?

    Ans: Shankar, Jaikishan, Roshan, Salil or Kalyanji Anandji

    Would I interview S. D. Burman or R. D. Burman?

    Ans: No, because they wouldn’t have much good to say about Mukesh. Knowing SD, he might have said a bad thing or two.

    If I were to write about Kishore, whom would I interview?

    Ans: S. D. Burman, R. D. Burman, and (possibly LP, KA, RR and Boppi da)

    Would I interview Naushad, Madan Mohan or Roshan?

    Ans: No, because they would hardly have anything to say about Kishore.

    Then why is it that film journalists have to interview AB, CR and Salil about Rafi? Till only a few years back, both Naushad and OP were alive. Did one of these orkut guys ever go and talk to them to know more about rafi? Pyarelal, Ravi and Usha Khanna are still around; does anyone go and talk to them? All they do is recycle the same old stupid comments of md’s who had their own insecurities vis-a-vis rafi. That a singer like rafi would have problems with a song like “tasveer tere dil mein” is a joke! This was purposely planted in the media. Rafi is everyone’s favourite punching bag. You know why? Because the man never uttered a single word against anyone and there are people (including big names) who are still envious of his success and following.

    The guys who come to this site and recycle the same garbage over and over again are the shameless and spineless ones. They have no intellectual honesty and they have the audacity to come here and tell us that we don’t respect other musicians. I stand by every single word I’ve said; if you find my comments undesirable, you can go to some other site and show off your knowledge.

    P.S. I don’t get my knowledge of hfm by reading airline magazines. In case you didn’t know, most of these writers are bengalis who start with the following hypothesis: pandit pancham and guru kishore are the best. and then they go around planting words in other peoples’ mouths. These folks actually don’t care about AB, but they have found out that he had made some real derogatory comments about rafi. Wow, real juicy stuff! Keep using it whenever and wherever you can.

  50. P. Haldar says:

    ref post 1040:

    dear rafifan:

    The singer you’re talking about is the one who sang “dil jalta hai to jalne do”.

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