Did R.D.Burman really preferred KK over Rafi?
This article is written by Mr.H.V.Guru Murthy.
A regular browser to web site mohdrafi.com, having gone through the letters of Rafi lovers would assume that R D Burman did not utilize Rafi properly, instead he preferred Kishore Kumar. Because of this reason, Rafi Fans are still upset with RDB even though he passed away a decade back.
Yes, it is true that RDB preferred KK over Rafi during early seventies. For that matter, which Music Director or Actor or Producer or Director will not have his preference. It was well known that Raj Kapoor always preferred Mukesh, Manoj Kumar preferred Mukesh or Mahendra Kapoor, B.R.Chopra films had Mahendra, MD Ravi also had plenty of songs with Mahendra so also O.P after he broke with Rafi. Similarly OP always had either Asha or Geetha Dutt and never Lata. Salil also used all other Singers. Director Subba Rao insisted on Mukesh for SAATHI even though the hero was Rajendra Kumar and MD Naushad, two Rafi Fans. Even Kalyanji Anandji had many films with Mahendra Kapoor, Mukesh and KK even though Rafi was instrumental in their raise through JAB JAB PHOOL KHILE, AAMNE SAAMNE, etc. LP, by all means Rafi Bhakts, used KK regularly in the early seventies even for Rafi heroes like Jeetendra, Dharmendra, etc. SJ also switched over to KK in movies like MAIN SUNDAR HOON, DIL DAULAT DUNIYA, KAL AAJ AUR KAL, etc. Of course, the music standard came down a notch or two in that period. But, well, it is their prerogative to have whomsoever they wanted though I am sure in heart of heart, why even openly, they would have admitted the superiority of Rafi over all other Singers. Similarly, RDB also used KK for almost all his movies in the early seventies as perhaps he had some special chemistry with him.
However, let us not forget that RDB used Rafi extensively during late sixties as his main playback singer right from the first movie. He gave hit music with Rafi in TEESRI MANZIL, NAQLI NAWAAB, CARAVAN, PYAAR KA MAUSAM, THE TRAIN, ABHILASHA, ADHIKAR, RATON KA RAAJA, etc. Later during late seventies he returned to Rafi and gave hits like SHAAN, HUM KISISE KUM NAHIN, ABDULLAH, ZAMANE KO DIKHANA HAI, etc. In between, he had Rafi in CHANDI SONA qawali with Mannadey (Ek Shok Hasina Se), YADON KI BAARAT (Title song and who can forget the duet with Asha Chura Liya Hai Tumne), DIL KA BAADSHAH (this Raj Kumar starrer had all songs by Rafi), THE GREAT GAMBLER (Raftasa Mera Naam), SHEHZADA (Solo Tere Attaroo and duet with Lata Kaahe Ko Bulaya), etc.
If a person cannot appreciate the greatness of Rafi, then it can be safely concluded that the person does not have a sense of music. Of course, RDB was a good MD though not a great MD like Naushad, Madan Mohan, OP Nayyar, SDB, etc. RD would have definitely known the great qualities of Rafi, the Singer. Just because he did not use Rafi extensively as one would expect, let us not degrade this MD who gave us some good songs in CHANDAN KA PALNA, PADOSAN, HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA, MERE JEEVAN SAATHI, AJNABEE, AMAR PREM, SANAM TERI KASAM, BHOOT BANGLA, BAHARON KE SAPNE (Rafi solo Zamane Ne Maare), PARICHAY, KINAARA, APNA DESH, ZAHREELA INSAAN, RAMPUR KA LAKSHAMAN (Pyaar Ka Samay with Lata, KK and Rafi), 1942 – A LOVE STORY, KATI PATANG to certain extent, etc. though he gave some very mediocre music in films like DEEWAR, SHOLAY, KITAAB, ZAKHMEE, RAFOO CHAKKAR, NAMKEEN, DHARAM KARAM and BIWI O BIWI (so un-RK film like), etc. so many forgettable movies as for as music was concerned.
The irony of RDB was either he gave good music or petered out to a very mediocre music in so many films. I read some where that Shashi Kapoor called RD as National Anthem Music Director. In those days, theatres used to play National Anthem at the end of the movie and the Hall doors used to be shut till the completion of the Anthem. As soon as the Anthem used to commence, our in-disciplined people used to rush to the Hall Door and wait for the door opening. Similarly, whenever RDB songs commenced in most of the movies, people used to rush to toilet.
Still, it is not fair that we use harsh and sometimes, un-parliamentary language against any body if they differ with our views. We cannot forget the contribution of all these MDs, Heroes, Singers, Directors, etc. in making the Indian Film Music so rich.
February 9th, 2008 at 6:15 am
Ref Post 349:
Mr. XXX, the 1951-60 period of SDB’s music was indeed excellent. Take any SDB period, and you will find high quality excellent music. In fact if you look at SDB’s career, he produced landmark scores in every decade (50’s, 60’s, 70’s). Had he lived longer I am sure he would have produced landmkar scores even in the 80’s. RDB had the chance to work with modern technology in the late 70’s onwards, something SD did not. Yet, SDB’s music sounds so crystal clear, and that is a tribute to his genius. Imagine Dada Burman’s music in stereo, how amazing that would have been. Then again his music doesn’t need the stereo quality to be great, play it on a good system, and his music will still sound out of this world. SDB’s music was ever young, fresh, and never dated.
Excellent description of “Karvaten badalte rahen” you gave there, and I agree the song seems to be inspired from LP’s “Dhal Gaya Din”. Yes RD also made inspired tunes, with his own stamp, just as SD put his stamp on his compositions.
I would like to mention a point and that is fusion music, I feel many only give RD credit for true fusion and not SD. It is definitely true that RD was a master at fusion music, he combined the best of both worlds in a beautiful way, but so did his father. Many tend to give RDB credit for the majority of SDB’s fusion music. True, RD may have had a hand in the fusion music, but it is absurd in my opinion to credit everything that SD did in fusion or western music to RD. SDB was no junior when it came to the west, he had a strong hold on this genre as he had on traditional music.
There are many examples, some of which I will mention. In the 50’s, there is Hemant’s “Hai apna dil to awara” which is harmonica driven. How about the accordion and SDB, it was different from how SJ used it, traces of it can be found back in 1951 with the songs “Tandi hawayein” and “Saiyan dil maine aana”. This is before RD became his main assistant. How about the saxophone, an integral part of SD’s orchestra, an example “tere mere sapne” (guide) was a mix of traditional and jazz along with the western and SD touch. How about “Megha chhaye aadhi raat” from Sharmilee, what a beautiful mix of east and west with the accordion, sitar, guitar, bongo’s, tabla all rolled into one, and this song has the SDB touch all throughout. Even after RD was no longer SD’s assistant because of his own films, we can still find SD using fusion in many songs one of which is “Ab to hai tumse” (Abhimaan). RD was a master at using the guitar, and SD was strong in this department too, check out the guitar, the bongo’s in the Abhimaan song, all a perfect mix. How about Lata’s “Aa palkon mein aa” where the use of the guitar was anything unlike at that time. Is anyone going to attribute this to a twelve year old RDB (at the time) or maybe the guitar player himself and not SD ?. Btw, SDB also was also excellent at chord based compositions, something RD was also fantastic in. Check out Rafi’s “Apni to har aah”, notice the excellent use of the guitar, and the great “train” effect, brilliant work. Another song with fantastic use of the acousitc guitar is Rafi’s “Khoya Khoya Chand”.
Now tell me, should I credit SD’s western fusion to RDB or Basu-Manohari or Meera Dev Burman or anyone else ?. After all many have said that a good number of SD’s 60’s compositions were by Jaidev and before that N Dutta. So basically, what they’re saying is that SD was never a composer, he left everything to his assistants, and in the end took all the credit. Anyone who says things like this is totally making a joke out of SDB, as SD was a master composer that could compose anything. The assistants were like the techicians, who executed the vision of SDB, and the final touch was also that of SDB. Both SD and RD had similar assistants which was interesting.
When talking about father and son, there are similarities in their music. They fed off beautifully from eachother, if RD was inspired by his dad, then SD also incorporated RD’s ideas into his music as well. However this does not mean others were resposible for SD’s western or fusion music, he was a master himself at that, just as RD was in his own way. Also, RD’s classical music had the SD touch but was in his own style as well. SD’s fusion was different from RD’s, even though they may have had similiraties. RD may have explored this genre further, but SD mixed it very beautifully, he didn’t need to explore it more, it was already in his music as a perect mix. The SDB gharana was amazing, and was full of variety.
So RDB was definitely not the first to make fusion music popular, before him SDB, SJ and others were already working with it. If RD was excellent at chords, rhythm, and melody, SD was also great in of all that. True, RD introduced new rhythm patterns, but so did SD, and he was very innovative in rhythm patterns and played aroud with it as well. His sense of rhythm was completely his own. If RD was a trend-setter, so was SD, if RD changed the sound of music with Teesri Manzil, his father also did with Aradhana.
RD may have popularized the guitar and made it a part of his trademark, but as I mentioned SD was no less in using it greatly. RD also used western instruments in a unique and awesome way, but that doesn’t take anything away from SD’s use of western instruments which were used in SD’s own unique and excellent way too. When it comes to indian instruments, ofcourse SD was brilliant, and RD also was great.
Mr XXX, who in your view was the more talented, gifted, and better composer, SD or RD ?. Please give your reasons as well.
February 7th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
hello mr.myk,,
it was gr8 description of dada,, you mentioned about aise to na dekho,, it was gr8 rendition by rafi sahab along wd andr gem frm d same movie–kahin bekhayal, those two songs were made only for rafi sahab,what a great singing!!!.. also im agree wd u dat “diye jalte hain” sounds to be inspired frm “dunia o dunia” by sachin da…
rdb was genious in dis department also, he made somewhere 50 inspired tunes from diff resouces, from foreign, from his father’s and even frm his contemps…
myk ji if u noticed dat notations of antras of dat pahadi song “karvate badalte rahen” is similar to d lp’s “dhal gya din ho gayi shaam” mukhdaas… pancham only did slight make-up wd tune, changed d taal to vilambit daadra, add 2-3 notes, subtracts 2-3 notes,, juss applied his musical mathematics to lp’s tune..
now regarding sachin da’s golden phase, m agree wd u dat dada was excellent throughout his career but i consider 1951-60 as his golden phase.. as i menntioned earlier dat he hardly repeated him self frm 1951-60,, used almost every singer,, managed to produce gems even wd lesser known singers- dekho maane nahi roothi hasina wd jagmohan bakshi… he was as trendy as classy in dis period, but m agree dat he was excellent till his last movie milli…. but i rate dada no.1 composer of 50s along wd naushad ji
February 7th, 2008 at 10:38 am
I request others to come forward with some more SDB songs that they think fit the qawwali description, or have the qawwali touch.
February 7th, 2008 at 10:28 am
I mentioned that SDB didn’t get many chances to compose for qawwalis. However he has made a song with, you can call it a “qawwali touch”, along with classical flavour, and that is Manna’s “Kisne chilman se mara” from ‘Baat Ek Raat Ki’.
February 7th, 2008 at 8:37 am
The Rafi-SDB combo was one of the most greatest in the history of HFM. As P. Haldar said, they defined what playback singing was all about. Dada explored the full range of Rafi saab’s golden voice, and Rafi saab also had a special SDB crooning style. Their songs together are very haunting, soulful, and everlasting. Guide was the peak of their association, in its full glory.
How about “Aise to na dekho” (Teen Devian), I absolutely adore this composition, only a genius like Dada could have created such a masterpiece. Songs like these were made for Rafi saab, as only he could have sung them.
February 7th, 2008 at 8:26 am
Ref Post 344:
Mr. XXX,
Dada Burman was an amazing composer, he was in a league of his own, his songs have so much soul in them. The Hemant songs you mentioned are all excellent, SDB used his voice in a great way. Those three Hemant songs rank amongst his very best, I just love ‘na tum hamein jano” what a melody, I wish there was a Rafi version of this song. Look at the tabla pick up in the antara’s, excellent.
In fact I think every singer was at their technical best under Dada. Just think of Lata, Rafi, Kishore, Asha, Geeta, Hemant, Manna etc. they all had a distinct tonal quality under Dada. Ofcourse Rafi saab had a special tonal quality for every composer, such was his genius, but Dada brought out the best in a singer. Also all these singers including Mukesh, have sung their best songs under Dada (besides other composers).
He composed signature tunes for these singers, for example, when we think of Rafi, one song that comes to mind is “Tere mere sapne”, think Mukesh and you have “Chal ri sajni”, think Lata and there is “piya bina piya bina”, think Kishore and you have “Phoolon ke rang se”, think Manna and you have “Poocho na kaise”, think Asha and you have “Ab ke baras bej”, think Geeta and you have “Waqt ne kiya kya”, and many more. He also worked with many lyricists, Hasrat, Shailendra, Sahir, Majrooh, Anand Bakshi, Neeraj, Yogesh, Gulzar etc. and they all worked wonders with his music.
SDB was probably the best folk composer, he also was excellent in western music, a master at classical music, he could compose in all genres, I don’t think he had a chance to compose for qawwali’s or I’m sure he would have done great in that as well.
RDB picked up cues from his father, some of which are his melody aspect, his classical knowledge, the use of the guitar along with the rhythm, it was there in SDB compositions before RD made it his trademark. Isn’t RDB’s “Diye jalte hain” (Namak Haram) similar to Dada’s “Duniya O Duniya” (Naya Zamana), both Kishore songs.
His music was always fresh, ahead of its time, it didn’t belong to the era it was composed in, and he was a trendsetter. His music was modern as well as traditional. If he hadn’t passed away in 75, he would have continued to be a force, as he showed. In the 70’s, LP, RD, KA and others were competing with Dada Burman. His songs not only were mass friendly, but they were very high in quality.
Mr XXX, when do you think was Dada’s best phase as a composer ?. Dada was excellent throughout his career, I don’t think we can point to one phase where his quality was below par, he always maintained a high standard. Even in the early sixties and in the seventies when he had bad health, his music was still excellent. He did about 89 films, less compared to others, but look at the quality, outstanding. He never believed in taking on a lot of work at one time, which was smart.
January 26th, 2008 at 11:07 am
mr.myk,,
im agree wd u— “”Dada Burman’s violins weren’t as much in quantity compared to SJ or LP, yet they were as classy…”"
wats ur views on sachinda’s these compositions wd hemantda::
1.ye raat ye chandani fir kahan—-(if one notice dat how melodiously violins are going wd that rythm based on goa folk…)
2.yaad aa gayi wo nashili nigahen
3.na tum humein jaano, na hum tumhe jaane….
he flattened everyone wd his use of violins in above songs…
i have a great respect for dis divine burman,, i rate him over gr8 shankar-jaikishan as one can notice sachinda hardly used to repeat himself,, also i believe dat sj’s compositions were extremely ornamented beauties & sachinda’s compositios were simple beauties…
sachinda was also eminent fluitist of his time,, he was not at all commercial minded but still ruled the commercial market wd sj….
just go through dis(extracted from an article)……..———-
“”"”"” Guide had led to another interesting episode. A local filmland publicist-cum agent approached Dada with a proposal that shocked and enraged him. “Give me so much and”, the man said, “and you will get the award”. He had come in connection with a popular award hoping that the old man would fall for the offer readily. He was in for a surprise.
“Now look young man”, Dada told him, “I will be honest and tell you that I am interested in getting this award though I never knew it could be manipulated or bought. I can afford the money that you are asking for. And I also know that compared to the gains the award might yield the money you ask is nothing. But I would rather give it away to those who had acclaimed my music that buy the award….” “”"”"”"
and also every bengali should be proud of sachinda that he provided a new dimensions to bhatiali & baul,, introduced them into filmi music…
aur sachinda ki gayaki ko hi lelo,, anil biswas to mantra mugdh ho jate the unka gana sunke….
now regarding rafi sahab & sachinda’s combonation… this combination was lethal:::
1.jinhe naaz hai hind par wo kahan hain
2.ye mehlo ye takhto
3.khoya khoya chand
4.tere bin soone nain hamare
5.naache mann mora magan
6.din dhal jaaye
7.tere mere sapne ab ek rang hain
8.hum bekhudi mein tumko pukare chale gaye
9.dekhi zamane ki yaari
10.dil ka bhawar kare pukar…………………………… & many odr gr8s…
im sure that if someone compile d list of top 100 songs of rafi sahab,, above mentioned 10 songs will be there……..
January 25th, 2008 at 11:43 am
Excellent post on MM Mr. XXX, keep it up !
MM was a class MD, he was an amazing music director, his tunes were so powerful, emotional and everlasting. The melody in his compositions was outstanding and you are right his violins were excellent as well. As mentioned, he could compose in all genres, yet he sometimes gets typecast as only being great in the ghazal genre. He was great till the end, his quality of music never went down.
Talking about violins, all MD’s had their respective styles and ways of using them, and all were outstanding. S-J were masters, their violins were like a western symphony, and “counter melody” was used to great effect with it. L-P followed the SJ tradition with their classy and different orchestra, and both the duo’s were innovative with their use of the violins. RDB’s violins were also unique, he experimented a lot with it just like the two duo’s and it was different from other composers. Dada Burman’s violins weren’t as much in quantity compared to SJ or LP, yet they were as classy, and he used it to embellish his compositions. I would like to mention RR who also used violins in a fantastic way, innovative and experimenting with them as well. K-A also developed their own signature violin style which was great. We can mention so many other composers who had great violins.
January 25th, 2008 at 8:23 am
I should have added few more songs like “Aapki Nazaron Ne Samaja” and “Jiya Legayoji Mora” of ANPAD, “Baiyan Na Dharo” of DASTAK and “Naina Barse” of WOH KAUN THI to the list given in Post No. 339.
January 24th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
i wanna add one more point:::
although sj,lp & rdb made gr8 use of violins
but
violins sabse jada sur mein tabhi bole hain jab madanji k under mein aaye hain… and its a fact…
consider any gr8 song of mm & feel the melody of violins in it… im sure one will get best phrasing of violins under mm only….
although sj were also gr8 wd their violins & orchestra…
January 24th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
ref to d post 339::
nice post gurumurthy sahab & thanx for correcting me but ya i think “chalti ka naam gaadi” was sdb’s score,, and yes parwana was a good score by mm……..
ref to p 338::
harvinder sahab thanx for adding into my knwldge that laila-majnu score was completed by jaidev….
as far as my mds list is concd, i took every aspect into considerations like mass appeal, class of music, revolutionary impact, selection of singers, consistency…. dats y i gave dat o/p
1.naushad
2.sachin dev burman
3.shankar-jaikishan
4.madan mohan
5.roshan
6.rahul dev burman………
and i believe madan ji was not only gazal samrat,,, he was genious in odr generes also
patriotic– ab tumhare hawale watan…
drunken–(those nums frm dev movies)— sawan ke mahine mein,kabhi na kabhi kahi na kahi……
classical— ja re badra bairi, kon aaya mere mann ke dware,more naina bahaye neer….
playfull—- zaroorat hai shreemati ki kalavati ki, mera naam abdul rehman, ek tha abdul rehman ek thi abdul, bhor aayi gaya andhiyara, sikandar ne porus se,murge ne jhooth bola…..
western based—– shokh nazar ki bijliyaan,tum jo mil gaye ho,dil se dil milakar….
rakhi—- rang birangi raakhi…
romantic– tumse kahu ek baat paro si halki halki halki, bheegi chandni chhayi bekhudi, wo chand muskuraya…
sad mood—- mai ri, uthti hai har nigah, aaj socha to aasu bhar aaye, rasme ulfat,….
for parents—— Jab tak hai akash mein
note– this is just a sample,, the list of gr8 songs is endless….
January 24th, 2008 at 8:41 am
Dear XXX,
“Gairon Ke Karam” is from AANKHEN for which music was by Ravi. However, I was really to happy to read about the other songs listed in your post. Lataji’s all time greats shall definitely include “Nainon Me Badara Chaye” from MERA SAAYA, “Lag Ja Gale” from WOH KAUN THI, “Betaab Dilki” from HANSTE ZAKHM, “Zarasi Aahat” from HAQEEQAT and “Hum Pyaar Me Jalnewalon Ko” from JAILOR. MM also utilised Talat very well with his Gazals and if one notices, KK was utilised by MM in a quite different way than other MDs, just listen to songs from CHALTI KA NAAM GAADI, PARWANA, etc. Regarding Rafi & MM combination, it was “SIMPLY SUPERB”.
January 24th, 2008 at 7:48 am
xxx ji, your post in praise of MM is well taken, though he never got mass or commercial recognition of his true talent, and died of alcohol and depression. His son Sanjeev Kohli regrets to date for not praising his dad’s compositions when he was alive and craved for recognition. I list him # 2, after SJ # 1 (Lata ji rates him # 1 and SJ # 2). I see that he is # 4 in your list and commercialy successful RD # 6 - I respect your assessement, but beg to differ.
Naushad saheb once stated that two of MM’s compositions “Agar mujhse mohabbat hai” and “Aapki nazron nein samjha pyar ke kabil mujhe” can match half of his own (Naushad’s entire work).
MM was the only music director who challenged the genius of Lata’s voice, took her to extra mile and took to dizzy heights, others only made maximum use of it.
Lata silences MM’s critics when he is branded as “Good for ghazals and Lata only”. She reminds the critics to listen to two extremities in Mohd Rafi saheb’s voice under MM in “Rang aur noor ki saugat kisse paish karoon” and ultra soft “Ik haseen shaam ko dil mera kho gaya”. I however do not want to believe that music of Veer zarra is of MM saheb, for following reasons AA) He passed away in 1975, and even then Laila Majnu was completed by Jaidev in 1976. BB) Music has deteriorated so much since then. It seems a gimmick to cash in on his name. After all RDB also benefited a lot of it on his father’s name and Asha on RDB’s name as double edged sword.
January 23rd, 2008 at 9:47 pm
myk sir, harvinder sahab,,
nice trivias were posted by both of you,, plz keep adding on these most underrated superstars:::
>ravi ji
>chitragupt ji
>vasant desai ji
>c.ramchandra ji
and let everybody know abt them……….
well now i wud like to through some light on another gr8 & my personal fav composer from yesteryears … madan mohan sahab..
after assisting dada burman for a short time in late 40s he scored his debut album in 1950– AAkhen…
and wat a gr8 album it was,,
>hum ishq mein barbaad hain(gr8 rendition by rafi ji)
>preet lagake maine
>kismat ne humein majboor kiya
and all odr songs from dis album were true gems..
madan ji was truly gr8,, really i dn have any words abt gr8ness of his music..
sab log kehte hain ki lataji ne ye kiya wo kiya,, agr hum madan mohan sahab ka yogdaan hata de to koi mujhe samjhayega ki didi ne kya kiya auro se hatkar???
juss consider these albums
>mera saya(1966)
*naino mein badra chhaye—–(well well well,,, i think dis song alone can rank him along side d gr8est mds ever, the best composition ever made in raag bheempalasi(no doubt in my mind), juss listen to d antras of d songs,, wat a fine balance he made between classical music & light music,, i mean how one can be so magical?? the way he moved from one note to another was just amazing,, and how superbly he made use of those two “dhevats(6th note))” in a song,, also gr8 use of sitar,santoor & violins together,, well i can eaisly write a book on dis song alone… gr8 song by truly gr8 maestro)
*tu jahan jahan chalega(gr8 song again)
*jhumka gira re
>dulhan ek raat ki
*ek haseen shaam ko dil mera kho gya(juss listen to d way afi sahab sung “shaaaaam ko”— sheer magic)
*kisi ka kuch
*maine rang li aaj chunariya(again sheer magic by mm in raag piloo,, madan sahab ke bht ehsaan hain lataji pe)
>wo kaun thi
*naina barse rimjhim
*lag ja gale
*shokh nazar ki bijliyaan(aur log kehte hain ki madan sahab sirf gazle achhi banate the)……
>jahan ara
*kisi ki yaad mein
*wo chup rahe to
>dekh kabira roya
*kon aaya mera mann ke dware(bht melodious insaan the madanji,, manna da ne is gane ko bht achha gaya hai)
and many odr gr8 albums like
*haqeekat
*adalat
*anpadh
*man mauji
*sanjog
*maa ka aanchal
******dastak*******
and who can forget madanji’s gr8 contribution to 70s
*haste zakham
*dil ki raahen
*mausam(gr8 use of bhupinder’s voice in dat nostalgic song)
*laila-majnu(even d weakest score(so called) of madanji was so melodious)
aur jate jate madanji k kuch sadabahar nagme
*ja re badra bairi ja
*preetam daras dikhao
*bhor aayi gaya andhiyara
*tum bin jeevan kaisa jivan
*aapke pehlu mein(gr8 rendition by rafi ji)
*teri aakho ke siva
*tum jo mil gaye ho
*hum pyar mein jalne walo ko chain kahan haye aaram kahan
*gairon ke karam, apno pe sitam………
******long live madan mohan******
January 22nd, 2008 at 11:20 pm
Thanks Mr. Harvinder and Mr. XXX for your nice posts.
Mr. XXX, that is a great list of RDB albums. I fully agree with you, Rafi saab brought melody to Pancham’s music and I would like to add that the RDB/Rafi combination was an amazing mix of music and voice.
Now for the trivia related to “The Burning Train” (1980):
a) BR Chopra produced this film, and we all know Ravi was his favourite MD. What is interesting is that Ravi was present for the recording of every song from this film, and was also helping out Pancham. I have also heard that Ravi assisted Pancham during that period as well. Sahir was the lyric writer for TBT, and he was also a BR Chopra favourite.
b) This film had the beautiful masterpiece qawwali ‘pal do pal ka saath hamara’. The sound of the train is used in this song as well as in the title music. Pancham and his sound recordist Deepan Chatterjee went to the Bombay Central railway station to record the train sounds.
January 22nd, 2008 at 9:20 pm
mr.myk,,
nice post again ,,, plz keep adding interesting facts on chitragupt, ravi, cr, opn, lp,rr,rj ………..
and it wud b pleasure if u will post those trivias on ur next post…
now concerning 15 best rdb albums,, its a tough call ,,but iam mentioning 15+ gr8 rdb albums in diff way….
5 bests wd majrooh— teesri manzil, yado ki baarat, hum kisise kum nahi,carvan,kudrat
4 bests wd anand bakshi— pati-patni, chandan ka palna, amar prem,kati patang
4 bests wd gulzar— ijazat, kinara, aandhi, masoom..
& some good albums wd odrs like
(sanam teri kasam, satte pe satta, kasme vaade wd gulshan baawra)
1942als wd javed
padosan, bombay to goa wd rajinder krishan…. & still more can be added
and i think rafi sahab really did gr8 job wd pancham,, added melody into rdb’s songs which we found missing in kk’s renditions..
as one can see that rafi sahab really added some special ingrediants to the pancham’s mediocre composition ek bechara pyar ka maara and made d song good,,
kk also did justice wd pancham’s gr8 tunes but was kk really had the talent to make a mediocre composition a good song(like mighty rafi sahab had)
…
ans is simply no.. as pancham’s mediocre compositions wd kk like walla kya nazara hai,mujko agr ijazat ho are not even bearable…
January 22nd, 2008 at 8:57 pm
Thank you myk and your post 333. I concur with you every bit on the sweetness and melody of Ravi and Chitragupt. I was just watching Ravi sahebs melody in Bharosa (Woh dil kahan se laoon teri yaad jo bhula de - what a composition). Ravi saheb was very fond of Rafi Saheb and always stated that Rafi has to be heard from heart and not only by the ears. I have heard an interseting tale about BR Chopra’s waqt. BRChopra did not fancy OPNayyar and Rafi after the duo stole the thunder from his movie Naya Daur and as a result wanted to avoid Rafi’s influence on WAQT despite Ravi wanting Rafi Saheb. Upon completion of recordings of all remaing songs, Ravi smartly approached BRChopra for the title song’s composition which was far beyond any other singer’s ability, with Rafi as the only alternative in mind. To this BRChopra agreed. Ravi played another trick by quoting a phenomenal amount of 10,000 Rs (in 1965) which was higher than the entire amount paid to other singers for the remaing songs. Surprisingly, BR Chopra - an astute businessman making a mega starrer agreed to pay. Rafi Saheb sang the song and distributed the entire money amongst lowly paid musicians. Such was the character and pride of MD’s and singers those days.
January 22nd, 2008 at 11:12 am
Thank you Mr. XXX, please do write more as well.
Ravi, like Chitragupt was a very under-rated composer. He came to the industry to be a singer, and became an assistant to Hemant Kumar. He had no formal training in classical music, yet he could compose classical songs and wonderful gems.
Again like Chitragupt, he was never part of the rat race, and kept on producing wonderful music. Ravi had an excellent sense of melody, his songs had that “sweet” factor, and this made him successful. He wasn’t as flashy in his orchestration like an SJ or RDB, and he also displayed his composing talent through the variety of instruments he used in his arrangements. His trademark and trump card was solid melody. Ravi had a tendency to come up with many tunes based on the meter of lines. He always preferred lyrics to be written first and then composed tunes.
Ravi had the longest association with the BR Chopra Banner, and he gave that banner a lot of great music. Ravi was another ‘Rafian’ composer, he reserved his cream for ‘Saatwan Sur’. Mahendra Kapoor also got a chance to shine under Ravi’s baton. Besides being successful in HFM music, Ravi also composed for a lot of Southern films.
In my next post I will share two interesting pieces of trivia related to the film “The Burning Train” (1980), composed by RDB.
I have just written briefly on both Ravi and Chitragupt, there is so much more to their story. In future posts, I will continue sharing things about these composers as well as others.
———————-
Mr. XXX,
I would like to know what your Top 10 RDB Albums are. Please list them, and if 10 is too less then you can make it 15.
January 21st, 2008 at 9:58 pm
Ref. post # 330: True, Chitragupt gave melodious songs, I consider him better than R.D. Burman.
January 21st, 2008 at 9:37 pm
mr.myk,,,
it was nice description of chitragupt…
hope u add on ravi too….
January 21st, 2008 at 8:32 pm
Everyone has their own views and opinions which is great, and its nice to see an interesting discussion taking place here, where everyone is contributing from different angles.
Chitragupt was an excellent composer, he created a variety of beautiful songs. What was unique about his orchestra was his use of violins. They had a very distinct sharp touch that became his trademark. He definitely saved his cream for Lata and Rafi as did most composers. He was a low-profile MD, not as famous as his contemporaries, but still managed to hold his own with the songs he composed. His music had the indian fragrance with a modern touch. His arrangements were very clean, and uncluttered, and he was very strong on orchestration. A very under-rated composer, he deserves more appreciation.
January 19th, 2008 at 10:22 pm
ref to p 328::
iam agree wd mr.gurumurthy—-”it is a fact that LP could not match their own standard of 1963 to 73 in the later years”
no doubt that laxmikant-pyarelal were great music directors,, because of
1.their strong belief in indian melody
2.right selection of singers(they never used kk unusually like pancham)
3.adding commercial tadka into song or we can say that their songs were nice blend of class & mass appeal…
4.and ofcourse both were highly talented…
the only field(odr than commercial) in which pancham lags from lp is “selection of singers”
i think sometimes dosti dominates d farz,,, dats wt hapnnd in pancham’s case,, he always prefferd his frnds…
consider his gr8 father sdb,, he was very close to manna da & kk but he played his farz as music dir sincerely & gave his best compositions to d best singer(rafi ji)…. but pancham unfortunately didnt….
lets take these to songs of father & son..
1.naache mann mora magan(meri surat teri aakhen by sdb)
2.mithe bol bole payaliya(kinara byy rdb)
similarities bw these songs
>both songs were based on bhairvi & teen-taal
>both were very sweet compositions
>tabla is major attraction of rythm in both songs..
now dada always knew dat only rafi sahab could do more dan justiice wd these type of sweet compostions, so he employed rafiji and as a result song registerd itself into legendry songs,,
now wat pancham did,, he simply ignored classical gr8s(rafi,manna,yesudas) & prefferd his good friend guitarist bhupinder(although he was good classical singer but not gr8 ),, as one can see that didi totally dominating in dis song,,, i think bhupinder failed to bring meldy…
so as a result that song although capable but never found its place into gr8 classical compoitions,,,
i believe that rdb’s most of selections were totally wrong,, but he is still a legend,,
i consider only these mds as revolutionary gr8s
1.naushad(surely numero uno)
2.dada burman
3.sj
4.mm
5.roshan
6.rdb
January 19th, 2008 at 8:35 am
Both Rafi and Lata have openly acknowledged the talent of LP. Even in the late seventies when the general music standard came down from the high pedestal of 50s and 60s, these two stalwarts admitted that only LP give good music. Of course, it is a fact that LP could not match their own standard of 1963 to 73 in the later years, perhaps due to a combination of reasons like changing tastes, deterioration in the quality of lyrics, commercial interests, churning out songs in a short time, demise of Rafi and Mukesh, ageing of other stalwart singers like Mannadey, Hemant, Talat, Mahendra, etc. Even SJ suffered this problem as they could not mainatain their own standard of 1949 to 1968 in the later years due to several factors like their over-reliance on Sharada and other factors listed above and also another important factor was the demise of Jaikishan. That way, only and only Naushad, SDB, MM,OPN, Ravi, Chitraguta, CR, Jaidev and Roshan maintained their music quality from their first film to the last.
January 19th, 2008 at 12:05 am
Thank you XXX. Our lists differ so drastically to the extent that LP’s melody does not figure in your top 13 - I think our likes are diffrent.
MYK has thrown some light on LP. I request Mr Haldar also expresses his comments on LP’s music, we have had our diffrence of opinion on RDB though. Please, try listning to Chitragupt’s compositions - off late I have been listning to his songs sung by Rafi and Lata and they are all very soothing with a touch of class in Akash Deep, Bhabhi etc… Listen to Ravi in Nai Roshni, Kaajal, Khandaan etc… SHEER MAGIC
January 18th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
refer to p:: 322
mr.harvinder,,
i respect ur views on ravi & chitragupt,,but iam highly addicted of these composers
1.naushad
2.sachin dev burman
3.shankar-jaikishan
4.madan mohan
5.roshan
6.rahul dev burman
dats y my knowledge is very limited in case of d most of odr gr8s,,
1.salil chaudhary
2.anil biswas
3.ravi
4.op nayyar
5.chitragupt
6.vasant desai
7.c ramchandra….
ya but i found mr.myk & mr.p haldar amongst d most knowledgeble rafins in dis forum so i think they can view us better aspects of odr gr8 composers through their posts
it wud b pleasure for me if you or mr.myk or mr.haldar or any odr rafian will express their views on d above gr8s… as these composers really deserve a lot of hype which is unfortunately they dont getting…..